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RE: [anthroposophy] Maybe you can help me...

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  • Maurice McCarthy
    Chelsea, Welcome to the list. I ve been too self-absorbed recently to post here but there are many fine folk about here. I m a middle-aged old Brit working in
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 1, 2003
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      Chelsea,

      Welcome to the list. I've been too self-absorbed recently to post here but
      there are many fine folk about here. I'm a middle-aged old Brit working in
      the North Sea oil fields from where I write to you now. You'll find a
      company disclaimer at the end of this message because of that. Ignore it.

      Behind every child there stands an angel and every parent, guardian and
      teacher essentially joins with that angel in the spiritual vocation of
      raising the child into adulthood as well as they can under their conditions.
      Steiner was indeed a Christian but one unlike any other you will meet. His
      understanding of Christianity is very different to any other. If I had to
      put his philosophy into a motto I'd that properly understood ...

      Freedom and morality coincide.

      To cut a long story short he identifies thinking, i.e. the act of knowledge,
      as identical to Christ. "I" do not think, not "I" but Christ in me. Thinking
      confers freedom and freedom means that He allows the possibility of both
      Good and Evil. As much as it is distasteful to us, Christ allows all
      possibilities including the devil and still trusts that we will return to
      Him. In fact he even trusts us to help the salvation of the devil himself -
      given a very, very long time.

      The diabolic has, etymologically, two meanings therefore there are two
      devils whom Steiner calls Lucifer (a latin name meaning the bringer of light
      !!! Lucifer is a fallen angel.) and Ahriman (the darker of the twin gods in
      Ancient Persia) Ahriman is Satan. The first is the tempter and the second
      the power freak, the deceiver. My first wife was mortified when my young 6
      year old daughter wanted to put Lucifer on the Christmas tree because he had
      been expelled from heaven.

      A luciferic being is one who wants to advance yourself more quickly than you
      are able to. The luciferic and ahrimanic beings can work together in the
      most complicated way and living on earth means having to harmonise their
      doings into something better. Rather like recycling the trash, make
      something good out of something smelly.

      You can isolate yourself from the devils agents but those left outside then
      would have to cope with their redoubled efforts on their own and so Christ
      came to save the whole world and not just a few, to set an Example. RS
      believed that the Crucifixion was a planning for what the world of mankind
      would facing exactly now, 2000 years later. The spirit makes long term
      plans.


      Hope this helps somewhat
      Maurice



      -----Original Message-----
      From: chelseasummer [mailto:chelseasummer@...]
      Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 04:45 PM
      To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [anthroposophy] Maybe you can help me...


      ...

      I need someone who understands what I am struggling with...because I
      have been reading now a lot of Steiner's work. How does someone who
      has had real experiences with Jesus fit into Steiner Education? I
      wonder what it will be like when I get to the teacher training? Is
      there a place for someone like me who loves the Lord?

      Also, is there anyone on this list who can explain to me what Rudolf
      Steiner means when he talks about luciferic beings? Sorry, but that
      is a buzz word for backing off. It is difficult to understand a lot
      of his stuff...Is there such a thing as a Christian Waldorf teacher?

      Please help me...

      In love,

      Chelsea



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    • Maurice McCarthy
      Chelsea On the subject on having to live with the Adversary another member of this list, namely Joel, wrote something I found beautiful in SteinerStudy about
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 1, 2003
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        Chelsea

        On the subject on having to live with the Adversary another member of this
        list, namely Joel, wrote something I found beautiful in SteinerStudy about
        two months ago. It is out of context here so does not quite have the same
        impact but ... (I hope he does not mind)

        " ... I start with the following schematic:

        spiritual world - soul - (l/d)I-am(a/d) - soul - sense world

        ....... "

        " You will note that in the schematic above the center term was:
        (l/d)I-am(a/d). This is a reference to the luciferic and ahrimanic
        doubles, which are so intimately connected to the I-am that to our ordinary
        consciousness these three are indistinguishable. These two shadow Beings
        are quite necessary to our development, and our attention and intention
        tend to move among the three in a kind of lemniscate pattern. When our
        inner discipline has reached the point that we can begin to distinguish
        clearly in our ordinary consciousness among these three, thinking is now
        ready
        to move to its moral center."

        " By moral center, I mean a condition of intention and attention where
        every inner and outer action is rooted in moral imagination. More and more
        the I-am comes to live in the Good and the True (the Eternal), without
        succumbing to the imprecations of either shadow Being. This experience
        begins in the form of a kind of war, but finds its true balance in an inner
        gesture of gratitude, for the shadow Beings are only met and known when
        their
        efforts on behalf of our biography are admitted and fully appreciated."

        " Thus, to live in our moral center also means to come to peace with
        the
        mystery of Evil as that manifests in our own soul life.

        My 2 cents."

        warm regards,
        joel

        ------------------------------

        Very Best Wishes
        Maurice


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      • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
        Hello Chelsea, I can identify with much that you posted. I planned on going into seminary after a very conservative college education. I found myself on the
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 1, 2003
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          Hello Chelsea,  I can identify with much that you posted.  I planned on going into seminary after a very conservative college education.  I found myself on the opposite end fighting against their "us against them" mindset.  I visited Priests,Hindu temples,all kinds of faiths for the Christian religion a true foot soilder for Christianity.
            I too felt that connection to God and the so very strong pull of the love of Jesus. Christianity didn't fail me it was the people around it that failed me.  However, that pull never left me completely.  Now I have found this and feel so much freedom, spiritual freedom with no limitations.  Just like the "freedom in Christ" that I used to love about mainstream Christianity.  The truth is how much freedom is there in Christianity if it is OUR job to submit it to the masses?  You feel as if that goal can never be attained in one lifetime.  This may be just a different angle that is all.  There is so much divine truth for us all.  How we decide to find it is up to us.  Thank you Maurice for your last post.  It is always good to hear from you.  Much Love and Light, Chantel
        • Maurice McCarthy
          It is a pleasure to be able to share after long tormented years in the wilderness. Maurice ... From: Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com [mailto:Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com]
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 1, 2003
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            It is a pleasure to be able to share after long tormented years in the
            wilderness.

            Maurice

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Cheeseandsalsa@... [mailto:Cheeseandsalsa@...]
            Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 03:50 AM
            To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Maybe you can help me...


            ... Thank you Maurice for your last post. It is always good to hear from
            you. Much Love and Light, Chantel


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            It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the indicated
            addressee (or responsible for delivery to such a person)
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            anyone, or use this e-mail for any other purpose. In such cases, please
            destroy the message immediately and notify the sender by return e-mail.

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          • Cheeseandsalsa@aol.com
            What you said is so true! Sometimes I just hope to find a grey hair in my head as a sign that old age is approaching so I can go on in devachan and the rest.
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 1, 2003
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              What you said is so true!  Sometimes I just hope to find a grey hair in my head as a sign that old age is approaching so I can go on in devachan and the rest.  I have found the best way to survive on this planet in what I am studying.  It is not always easy being around others who don't heed it enough.  But you recieve their love and warmth and that leaves one with much blessing and sustaining love.  There are many WAYS to say the same thing!   Sending you warmth in the Northern Sea.  Hope you are enjoying the ancient floor of Atlantis!  Chantel
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