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Controversy/Steiner and Racisim

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  • leslierussell1
    Hello all, I am pasting a post from a Waldorf home schooling page that I belong to. It is causing agitation among group members. I recently began Foundation
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 27, 2003
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      Hello all,

      I am pasting a post from a Waldorf home schooling page that I
      belong to. It is causing agitation among group members. I recently
      began Foundation Studies and I feel that any Steiner quotes taken out
      of context can be misunderstood at the very least. I wonder if there
      is anybody on this list that might feel like responding to this
      message. I am not qualified as I have not read the book.

      The best I might come up with is that Steiner is
      thinking "instinctive wisdom" should/should not die out and be
      replaced by something else? I feel that Steiner would not mean that
      people with dark skin/hair are less superior in any way. Thank you
      for your time. Leslie Russell




      Hello everyone,

      I am sending this as a cross post because I was shocked to read the
      following quote by Steiner.

      "You see, when we really study science and history, we must conclude
      that if
      people become increasingly strong, they will also become increasingly
      stupid. If the blonds and blue-eyed people die out, the human race
      will
      become increasingly dense if men do not arrive at a form of
      intelligence
      that is independent of blondness. Blond hair actually bestows
      intelligence.
      ... It is indeed true that the more the fair individuals die out the
      more
      will the instinctive wisdom of humans vanish."

      [Rudolf Steiner, founder of Waldorf Schools. Health and Illness:
      Volume
      I,
      p86. (1922) Spring Valley: Anthroposophic Press, 1981]

      This sound like the precursor to the Nazis (and their eugenic
      campaign).
      Why would people follow such a man?

      Melissa
    • Maurice McCarthy
      Have not read the book but I will try to get hold of it when I m home again. Though I did not follow the debates this sort of thing was heavily discussed in
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 27, 2003
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        Have not read the book but I will try to get hold of it when I'm home again.
        Though I did not follow the debates this sort of thing was heavily discussed
        in Holland and Germany in the 90's. It seems inconsistent that the Nazi's
        closed all the Waldorf schools in the 1930's, consequently I'm lacking
        sufficient fact to make a judgment.

        Very Best Wishes
        Maurice

        -----Original Message-----
        From: leslierussell1 [mailto:leslierussell1@...]
        Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 11:53 PM
        To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [anthroposophy] Controversy/Steiner and Racisim



        Hello all,

        I am pasting a post from a Waldorf home schooling page that I
        belong to. It is causing agitation among group members. I recently
        began Foundation Studies and I feel that any Steiner quotes taken out
        of context can be misunderstood at the very least. I wonder if there
        is anybody on this list that might feel like responding to this
        message. I am not qualified as I have not read the book.

        The best I might come up with is that Steiner is
        thinking "instinctive wisdom" should/should not die out and be
        replaced by something else? I feel that Steiner would not mean that
        people with dark skin/hair are less superior in any way. Thank you
        for your time. Leslie Russell




        Hello everyone,

        I am sending this as a cross post because I was shocked to read the
        following quote by Steiner.

        "You see, when we really study science and history, we must conclude
        that if
        people become increasingly strong, they will also become increasingly
        stupid. If the blonds and blue-eyed people die out, the human race
        will
        become increasingly dense if men do not arrive at a form of
        intelligence
        that is independent of blondness. Blond hair actually bestows
        intelligence.
        ... It is indeed true that the more the fair individuals die out the
        more
        will the instinctive wisdom of humans vanish."

        [Rudolf Steiner, founder of Waldorf Schools. Health and Illness:
        Volume
        I,
        p86. (1922) Spring Valley: Anthroposophic Press, 1981]

        This sound like the precursor to the Nazis (and their eugenic
        campaign).
        Why would people follow such a man?

        Melissa







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      • Bobby Matherne
        ... Didn t the person who wrote this read the part where the human race will have to achieve a form of intelligence that is independent of blondness ? Or that
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 28, 2003
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          Somebody dense wrote:

          > I am sending this as a cross post because I was shocked to read the
          > following quote by Steiner.
          >
          > "You see, when we really study science and history, we must conclude
          > that if
          > people become increasingly strong, they will also become increasingly
          > stupid. If the blonds and blue-eyed people die out, the human race
          > will
          > become increasingly dense if men do not arrive at a form of
          > intelligence
          > that is independent of blondness."


          Didn't the person who wrote this read the part where the human race will
          have to achieve a form of "intelligence that is independent of blondness"?

          Or that blond hair and blue eyes are a result of living the northern
          temperature zones where the blood is unable to push as much into the hair
          and the iris due to its needing to be used just to survive?

          I have neither blond hair or blue eyes, but I expect that I may have
          acquired a tad of the kind of intelligence that Steiner is suggesting if I
          find being "shocked" a sign of denseness and a subject not even worth the
          pixel dust of this email.

          Bobby

          --
          ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ ><(((°><°)))>< ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
          "An Outline of Occult Science, Ch 1,2,3" by Rudolf Steiner
          http://www.doyletics.com/arj/occsc123.htm
          "The Loved One" by Evelyn Waugh
          http://www.doyletics.com/arj/lovedone.htm
          Reviews by Bobby Matherne ~ New Orleans, Louisiana
        • Bradford Riley
          From: Bobby Matherne ... Dear Friends; tis time to state my deep love for Bobby Matherene, who was one of the trio of Doc Holiday, Wyatt
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 28, 2003
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            From: Bobby Matherne <jeauxy@...>
            >: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:33:00 -0500

            Dear Friends;

            tis time to state my deep love for Bobby Matherene, who was one of the trio
            of Doc Holiday, Wyatt Earp and Bobby the Minister who hitched Tara and I in
            Texas. Waco Texas no less. But here is the deal beloved Bobby. I don't blame
            you for fuming, but for my benefit and in order to put this constant eroding
            whacko jinxing perception to bed, could you warmly and calmly elaborate what
            you merely indicated below. Bobby is one of the great voices of Spiritual
            Science out of LA. He is considered by me to be an almost, still needs work,
            Owen Barfield character on a good day. On a bad day, don't bring up any form
            of politics in his earshot.

            But his fire and insights, his logic is something I have not only learned to
            love, respect, admire, but his research into Dr. Steiner is more than
            balanced, it is Fair and Balanced. He has protected my back more than
            once...So dearest Bobby, and I will not say how amazing that Bobby, Harvey,
            Starbirgarden, Joksu, Daniel, Danny, Maurice, Melissa, Michael, Bruce and
            hundreds of others are contributing here. I don't want to jinx it. But I
            will say, is that for my benefit, could you please, or anyone who cares to,
            please unfold the real background and roots to such statements, out of
            context, that pass as attacks on the higher mission of Michael and Spiritual
            Science. Please someone take a second, for my benefit to elaborate and not
            just, with justification from the French Quarter, fume.. because I know,
            behind that fume is solid, solid reasoning.

            In brotherhood
            Bradford

            Also my warmest, warmest joy and love to Del.. I only say you should see
            this little house in New Orleans where Organized experiments in biodynamics,
            sculpting, painting, poetry, philosophy and science are radiating out of
            this location. Bobby and Del's home is a mini Michael College and Bobby is
            used to standing alone and fully armed. Of course he would be a bitter old
            coot without the warm depth of his beloved Del.

            >>Didn't the person who wrote this read the part where the human race will
            >have to achieve a form of "intelligence that is independent of blondness"?
            >
            >Or that blond hair and blue eyes are a result of living the northern
            >temperature zones where the blood is unable to push as much into the hair
            >and the iris due to its needing to be used just to survive?
            >
            >I have neither blond hair or blue eyes, but I expect that I may have
            >acquired a tad of the kind of intelligence that Steiner is suggesting if I
            >find being "shocked" a sign of denseness and a subject not even worth the
            >pixel dust of this email.
            >
            >Bobby

            _________________________________________________________________
            Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your existing Internet access and enjoy
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          • holderlin66
            NOT ALL 911 HEROES ARE PEOPLE ~ ~ ~ James Crane worked on the 101st of Tower 1 of the World Trade Center. He is blind so he has a golden retriever named Daisy.
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 28, 2003
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              NOT ALL 911 HEROES ARE PEOPLE ~ ~ ~

              James Crane worked on the 101st of Tower 1 of the World Trade
              Center. He is blind so he has a golden retriever named Daisy. After
              the plane hit 20 stories below, James knew that he was doomed, so he
              let Daisy go, out of an act of love. She darted away into the
              darkened hallway. Choking on the fumes of the jet fuel and the smoke
              James was just waiting to die. About 30 minutes later, Daisy comes
              back along with James' boss, who Daisy just happened to pick up on
              floor 112.

              On her first run of the building, she leads James, James' boss, and
              about 300 more people out of the doomed building. But she wasn't
              through yet, she knew there were others who were trapped. So, highly
              against James' wishes she ran back in the building.

              On her second run, she saved 392 lives. Again she went back in.
              During this run, the building collapses. James hears about this and
              falls on his knees into tears. Against all known odds, Daisy makes it
              out alive, but this time she is carried by a firefighter. "She led us
              right to the people, before she got injured" the fireman explained.

              Her final run saved another 273 lives. She suffered acute smoke
              inhalation, severe burns on all four paws, and a broken leg, but she
              saved 967 lives. The next week, Mayor Guilaini rewards Daisy with the
              Canine medal of Honor of New York. Daisy is the first civilian Canine
              to win such an honor.

              I hope you enjoyed this story. I thought it was terrific. It only
              strengthens my position that if people extended 1/10th the love that
              animals do, what a great World this would be !!!!

              Bradford comments;

              911 has proved to be as wildly mysterious as the JFK assassination.
              Threads to opportunism in stock market manipulations prior to, and no
              planes launched in the very district of Columbia and the seat of the
              Washington D.C. when Planes veered dangerously close to the Capitol,
              a STand Down Order, Saudi Osamma Family given a discreet escort out
              of the U.S. when all plane traffic had been grounded, they were given
              a hall pass. Failure to focus attention on Saudi's where C.I.A. had
              allowed passport approval of many individuals; The Israel spie group
              that was intercepted, but let go, and would love to shift the entire
              world opinion against the Arabs... were given a hall pass as well on
              911. Air Space over America is not something that Norad and others do
              not know about. Air Space and air protection has distinct built in
              protections, none of these protections were used on 911.

              But if nothing else we can locate the purity, the lack of any
              political motivation in the wonder of dogness. Here is the warm,
              lower astral and sentient bonding to human affection which can be
              held high. Loyalty, wagging tail joy, ability to forget yesterday and
              constantly enjoy the next, and the next event with astral imbued warm
              dogness. Border Collies have an intimacy to the higher astral
              thinking forces of their minders. Minders are now used as a frequent
              term , as well as handlers, to indicated the short leash that various
              Intelligence risks, and political risks are on. David Kelly had a
              minder.. But a Border Collie responds to the intimate Astral,
              advanced ariel like higher movements of thought. Literal mind linkage
              to the higher thought forces.

              Understanding the St. Bernard or Boxer, Pit Bull as connected to the
              lower will forces.. the Labs, golden retrievers, connected to the
              heart sphere... In other words you can break down the musical and
              intimate tuning of how a dog relates to their minders into a multi-
              layered threefold system... where there is a type of dog, for each
              variation of warmth ethers and fine astral forces that emanate from
              humanity. We could hold a model of a human being up and range from
              the very top of the thinking organism to the very feet of man, the
              intimate bonding in either the will, the feeling and the thought
              spheres, where human dominate in one area or another by their
              unreflected capacity. These are highly intimate observations and
              streams of clairvoyant warmth and ethers/tinged with astral forces
              that make the breeds of dogs as wide as the musical key board on a
              piano.

              But with that example, there are also whole order of elemental beings
              that ride on those streams. There are the medical and occult means to
              horrible alter these sensitive occult servants that have entered as
              nano micro computers in the blood system. Minders of the blood, watch
              dogs against the risen Christ. There are the Black Bird theory, that
              by tagging in a microchip, we can not only locate a car that was
              stolen or a child, or a pet, but that Karma and satellite guardians,
              and giant black birds, reveal how the inner earth forces have been
              and are rising into the very higher regions of the intellect and soul
              life. Tracking done by Angels and signs of trouble and spiritual
              warning indications are all being taken over by man from the Angels
              and arising in the human being as Ear shot, brain wave cell phones, I
              have one myself for emergencies, but On Star and products tagged with
              microchips that can be tagged and followed via Big Black Birds..

              But there is also medical Ridlin and Prozac and deadly prescriptions
              that distort the stero, the bi-polar effect, is a balance between the
              real hidden person and the surface personality. The stero, or dual
              speaker and magnetic systems, as Jan has indicated, bring about a
              failure in humanity to follow the Stars, inner tracking of destiny,
              reading the signs of ones life, correcting the imbalances of the
              occult development of personality and understanding the true virtues
              involved with health. These were all instinctive Angel capacities
              that have been hijacked or hyjacked and externalized away from inner
              deeper sense.. Ahriman is taking apart the world and by projecting
              the mighty spy metal, extracted from the Earth and projected into
              hovering, circulating and orbiting birds of Prey, we have been helped
              against surprise attacks by mighty Storms...navigation and instant
              mapping.. that once had to do with inner sense of direction and the
              four fold Earth, of North South E and West. Knowing in the Farmers
              almanac what type of future weather was coming was something one
              could easily learn.. as well as the healing herbs and their use.

              So superimposed between the Earth and the Moon, we have Medusa wise,
              projected various Astral Capacities into the orbiting head of the
              Earth. This superimposed image of Homoculous created image of man,
              rather than the Cosmic Cross and the skeletal zodiac of Aries in the
              Head to Pisces in the feet image, is being stolen and replaced by
              medical science and technology to mean something very different. We
              could say that Medusa was once very beautiful, but AThena didn't like
              that way her arrogance against the gods was developing, so Medusa
              reveals a distortion of the Astral and Etheric forces in the Earth
              that now orbit as variious sensors and astral eyes and laser venom
              capacities above our heads.

              This meant that we had to hold fast to the cosmic Image of
              Macrocosmic Man, even as the Etheric Christ expands and takes back
              the Planetary system between Mars and Buddha and Christian
              Rosenkreuz. We had to hold onto an Education that presented Human
              Centered Micro/Macro Christ model field as a fact.. if we were to
              integrate the Technology that Ahrimanic forces offer, but offer and
              allow human thinking to gain the same arragance that Athena despised
              in Medusa. So Ahriman infects the soul with a Materialism that
              produces in both education and science something alien to Athena. It
              is our humanity, and inability to hold the center of the divine in
              our wholesomeness, while developing extensive technology that make
              human brains so dangerous. This is not Ahriman's fault it rests
              solely on the infection and dangerous unconscious forces of
              Government, Science and Education, as well as a complete distortion
              of religion and the full fledged lie given to every cultural spin,
              because brotherhoods crave with AVARICE.

              Now my friends, when you see a sick drooling dog with Rabies, you
              know it is sick and deadly. Avarice in the soul of man, today, would
              look and does look like Rabies in the dog kingdom. Human beings are
              unable to follow the outline of how nature is a musical biological
              study between Bird and fish with the key Dorsal fin and shoulder
              blades of human and animal kingdom extending into warmth ethers of
              paw and hand.

              Perhaps it is time to understand that the paws, and fingers divide
              from hooves to toes and bear claws... because of streaming forces
              entering and streams dividing. In otherwords, the dog touches the
              Earth, the animals live with the Earth and their minders and such a
              Dog, who saved so many souls out of 911, whose paws touched the
              concrete stairways and streets of New York, was also nursed on the
              new ethers of the Risen Christ and the Risen Christ and the elemental
              courage streamed through the world to guide the receptive
              consciousness of Dogness in relation to Warmth Ethers.

              Please add or subtract where I have failed to explore carefully
              enough.

              Bradford
            • Harvey Bornfield
              Dear Leslie, Steiner addressed more profoundly than anyone in recent memory the issue of the watershed of talents once associated with racial characteristics,
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 28, 2003
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                Dear Leslie,

                Steiner addressed more profoundly than anyone in recent memory the issue of the watershed of talents once associated with racial characteristics, and of how this changes from group-driven to individually-sourced initiatives as we transition into modern times. In his masterwork "The Mission of Folk Souls, the ties to the Races, the Planets, the organs of the body, the hierarchies which cooperated in their differentiation, and the tie to the mythology and folklore are adeptly connected. And this is a delicious subject which deserves airing.

                Moving on:
                Material, empirically-seated, "brain-based" intelligence and the resourcefulness it spawns in our ability to grasp and externally manipulate the physical world is, to be sure, awesome' (the polite abbreviation for awesome!!!!), but, in the last analysis, intelligence, the "IQ", one of the great obsessions of educators during my childhood, as well as its bastard-heir-apparent  "Norms-based testing", which makes lame, devout and obnoxious Jihad - - -  " Intelligence " (pause fo kneel, "One nation, Under Intelligence")  what a great applauseweorthy ring the word still sports, is, alas, you universe of creepy-crawly CPA's, but one of many foci of human capacity, and a great distraction to matters of depth, compassion and the pursuit of happiness. 

                In times past blood-bound, race-linked connections conferred identity upon people through affiliation, and held powerful instinctive sway as determinants of the way peoples were focused in various ages upon various stages. This, all this in order to mature certain perspectives and industry in the "heyday" of certain groups which 'island', which populate the riverrun of successive civilizations, leaving impressive bookmarks.

                Yet when these civilizations fall by the wayside, it is very much like a serpent molting a skin grown outmoded and constricting. If you ponder and embrace this compelling imagination, inviting it inside your life of thought, then it is wasy to anticipate that successive cultures will also arise, and be as newer, more outer tree rings upon a single tree of the life of all humanity, so that in a following spiritual springtime, they will be superceded by a new purposes. (Reflects a moment: One cannot pit different tree-rings of the same One Entity, against each other. What bizarre and twisted a notion be that). So we fast forward to today: The capacity for material Intelligence is now becoming transmuted, fructified into Self-evidencing Intuition as a means to penetrating, "conversing with", discovering as it were, or, I stand corrected, as it WILL BE, ......discovering, touching, accessing, what's the word I'm looking for?......Revealing the secrets of both the material and the subtle universe. Forgive me: Earlyfire loves strophic exposition. The following is a paid advertisement:
                Long live Ancient Greece, Long live Shakespeare. (Before there was spin there is Fortspinnung)

                Now, to the heart of the matter:
                Racism is a form of group egocentricity, in which a 'Herd of People", fall in love with their little island in the riverrun, and acquiring a vested interest in dominating history, wax tyrannical, chauvinistic and arrogant, and marring their gifts to the cosmos and to man with all manner of partisan cruelty, imagining that what they have or are still developing, entitles them to certain unique privileges among men, among the most offensive of which are the economic and psychological domination of others, fail to recognize that in reality, the hierarchies which guide, which spark, which inspire groups of people to develop higher talents, at all times intend to make their accomlishments available altruistically for bestowal, to disbursed far and wide upon all humanity as universal legacy. Greek Philosophy, Roman Law, the emergence of Scientific perspective at the time of the European Renaissance, (seeded by the unacknowledged importation of algebra and chemistry developed under Arabic Islamic auspices during Europe's Dark Ages) - those cultures, peoples, races who were honored with the task of bringing them forth, if they turn prejudiced and refuse to travel forward from their island, remain behind, stuck in their mileposts, in love with their bookmarks, losing, receding ever more greatly out of touch with incoming chapters of emerging purpose, so suffering then, an ever widening gap between their own fortress and those who pioneer new and epic tasks appropriate to the expanding of civilization.

                Behold  Fortress America, the Saddam Bush syndrome, a deadly disease of oblivion seated in the political administration of the nation, how phenomenologically similar, how closely bound up in oppressive intent to equate dialogue with heresy, how it employs the same forces, and will doubtless be recognized as a variation of racism. It is allowed to fester because the American People have thus far utterly failed to recognize that it is their unique and unsuspected destiny in world history to promulgate the spiritually-authored emergence and triumph of the Oneness of Humanity over all the outmoded 'sold-separately' and vastly disfunctional nationalistic points of view, which are dinosaurs.

                In Europe, which suffering the blows and sacrifice of hundreds of years of secular and religious wars, there has already begun to emerge a socially and economically tamed confederation of cooperating nations, which prophecies, artistically foreshadows the arising of a unity which transcends nationalistic viewpoints. In America, we will take this hierarchically-inspired initiative one step further: Confronted with a wondrous courage-inspiring task, an uphill climb like to the conquest of Everest, that of conquering the prejudices within our own melting pot which, despite praiseworthy advances through the martyrdom of JFK and MLK and others, remains nontheless most dire.

                So when the man from the Publisher's clearing house knocks, he unscrolls the following message: Congratulations, American People' (an abbreviation for ......:-)))
                Catharsed thus of all traces of hatred, and even of the euphoria of young, love which blinds clear wide-angle sight, America, you have earned through the replacement of "fast food" with "Vast food" the right to decide to wrest yourself free from the unannounced siege by the "Empire Rednecks" whose Pinnochio-like strings are digitally manipulated by hosts of the Clandestine who imagine themselves immune to detection and aloof from moral influence.

                And swiftly following on the heels of a decision to rise to champion the Oneness of Humanity, will pull off a swift and sudden triumph over those who are loyalty and dogma addicts. And with the ascent of Humanity as One, and the laying to rest forever of the word "Foreign", there will be no such possibility of authoring a "Foreign Policy" But you will have to decide whether the cup is half empty or half full. 

                Recall Prospero in the Tempest:
                Gentle breath of yours my sails Must fill, or else my project fails, Which was to please. Now I want Spirits to enforce, art to enchant; And my ending is despair Unless I be reliev'd by prayer, Which pierces so that it assaults Mercy itself, and frees all faults. As you from crimes would pardon'd be, Let your indulgence set me free. THE END

                But now, intermission is over:

                Steiner who, as a visionary far ahead of his contemporaries, well knew that group bonding was dissolving into individualized spheres of responsibility, that group racial and tribal affiliation are, even as we speak, happily giving way, ever and irrevokably loosening under the charisma of emerging individual initiative, anticipated that entire palette of spiritual traits such as intelligence, wisdom and moral virtue are becoming dependent upon human decision making, upon impulses of leaderless, priestless choice, rather than unconsciously guided impulses as in the past, or decisions superimposed "IN BEHALF of" those by self-styled power-brokers who nihilistically imagine individuals are lacking in vision and responsibility and grit to transact such dialogue as empowers and underwrites democratic processes.

                Exhale now, this is a slow transition. We all look forward to maturing to the recognition that the celebration of racial diversity is perfect and welcome, and makes a long overdue antidote eminently capable of overthrowing negative scathe and judgmental condemnations of physiologically-defined differences, which is the sorry state of affairs of contemporary humanity.

                To release the hold of race and blood as primary determinants, as fundamental influences in the evolution of qualities, capacities and virtues among men, one must desire to laugh at the funeral, at the laying to rest of outmoded and barbaric prejudice of all genres, including the one which blackmails your ideality and jades your dreams, and handcuffs your ascent to moral initiatives, the one you darkly whisper to yourself
                I, creepy-crawly CPA, have calculated the odds: "It can't happen here".

                Tell your Waldorf home-schoolers that on Harduf Kibbutz in Isreal, there is a Waldorf school in which Jews and Arabs share common educational auspices. Could it be possible that such an unrivalled, futuristic blend of peoples could be the fruits by which the Christ said ye shall know them, the fruits of a racist?

                Warm Regards,
                Harvey
                Tucson, Arizona

                 

                At 1052 PM 9/27/2003, you wrote

                Hello all,

                  I am pasting a post from a Waldorf home schooling page that I
                belong to. It is causing agitation among group members. I recently
                began Foundation Studies and I feel that any Steiner quotes taken out
                of context can be misunderstood at the very least. I wonder if there
                is anybody on this list that might feel like responding to this
                message. I am not qualified as I have not read the book.

                  The best I might come up with is that Steiner is
                thinking "instinctive wisdom" should/should not die out and be
                replaced by something else? I feel that Steiner would not mean that
                people with dark skin/hair are less superior in any way. Thank you
                for your time.  Leslie Russell

                "Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind, but mankind cannot comprehend."
                Ludwig van Beethoven


              • lightsearcher1
                Harvey: In its (positive) broad-strokes I certainly agree with you. But you ve got to take a breather from reading DISSENT, the NATION, and IN THESE TIMES
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 28, 2003
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                  Harvey:

                  In its (positive) broad-strokes
                  I certainly agree with you.

                  But you've got to take a breather
                  from reading DISSENT, the NATION,
                  and IN THESE TIMES quite so
                  regularly.

                  And you might be somewhat over-sanguine and
                  idealistic about America(ns) when you say:

                  > the American People have thus far utterly
                  > failed to recognize that it is their unique
                  > and unsuspected destiny in world history to
                  > promulgate the spiritually-authored emergence
                  > and triumph of the Oneness of Humanity

                  I don't have the quote, but Steiner emphasised
                  that (for right or for wrong) the "American era"
                  would be an economic era spreading around the
                  globe. -- No, I don't like the trashy/plastic/tacky
                  way in which it has occurred, but I don't think
                  Steiner ever held out as "the American duty" the
                  task you describe.

                  No doubt each Michaelic era such as the Hellenistic
                  era (325 - 30 BC) and the current era (our own)
                  was/is/will be a period when the core feeling in
                  the pit of everyone's stomach is that "all the cards
                  are up in the air with no one knowing where they
                  will fall."

                  So give the process some space, and (let's) get out
                  of the way while the cards are falling, because
                  MICHAEL is the dealer while we're observing it
                  all from the table.

                  Tarjei Straume wrote:

                  "One of the most characteristic distinctions to
                  be made between the inspirations of Gabriel and
                  Michael is that Gabriel inspired national
                  romanticism and patriotism, but Michael seeks
                  to emancipate people from such group-consciousness
                  and implement instead universality, internationalism."

                  -- http://www.uncletaz.com/aproots.html

                  Tarjei said, "Michael seeks to emancipate people from
                  such group-consciousness..."

                  That's the problem with the Left and why the Left
                  is more dangerous and more spiritually backward
                  than the Right:

                  Blood/folk/tribe is the PAST, but the Left is trying
                  it its never-ending multy-culty DVGD agitation --
                  (DVG means "designated victim-group of the Day") -- to
                  enslave people again to group/racial consciousness.

                  At least the RIGHT is more connected to the PRESENT,
                  and by this I mean the Economic forces of the PRESENT
                  which Steiner at least said would be be the manifestation
                  of America in the PRESENT.

                  . . . . . . . . . .

                  On your comments on testing and intelligence:

                  I was just marking objective fact. -- Most of us
                  can sense that the historical "high period" for
                  pragmatic scientific/material instrumentalism
                  and technicism is passing rapidly.

                  Steiner is NOT -- and neither was I -- applying
                  an ultimately POSITIVE connotation to the
                  "intelligence" that he was referring to.

                  And I hear ambivalence, or a "both/and" sense
                  in his words, because by "intelligence" he
                  seems to mean the concrete/utilitarian smarts
                  that the European peoples brought from the
                  1700's to the middle 1900's --

                  (RS:) "If the blonds and blue-eyed people die out,
                  the human race will become increasingly dense
                  if men do not arrive at a form of intelligence
                  that is independent of blondness. Blond hair
                  actually bestows intelligence. It is indeed
                  true that the more the fair individuals die
                  out the more will the instinctive wisdom of
                  humans vanish."

                  And maybe here he means "instinctive" in a
                  backward sense?

                  But I appreciated the greater substance and
                  articulateness of what you wrote.

                  LS (Lover of Synonymity)/1

                  P.S. --

                  COLUMNIST QUOTE OF THE WEEK:

                  Between issuing laws prohibiting discrimination
                  against transgendered individuals and running up
                  a $38 billion deficit, the California Legislature
                  mandated a three-week immersion course in Islam
                  for all seventh-graders.

                  A "crash course" in Islam, you might call it,
                  if that weren't so ironic.

                  Students are required to adopt Muslim names,
                  plan a trip to Mecca, play a jihad game, pray
                  to "Allah, the Compassionate" and to chant
                  "Praise to Allah! Lord of Creation!" They are
                  encouraged to dress in Muslim garb.

                  Students are discouraged, however, from stoning girls
                  at the school dances, abusing their "Jew" math teachers
                  or blowing up their classmates.

                  Book of the Year:

                  http://www.thbookservice.com/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6347
                • shlapa00
                  ... out ... there ... conclude ... increasingly ... the ... In the future will be less and less blonde people,because Earth is aging and humans,as well.We need
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 29, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "leslierussell1"
                    <leslierussell1@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello all,
                    >
                    > I am pasting a post from a Waldorf home schooling page that I
                    > belong to. It is causing agitation among group members. I recently
                    > began Foundation Studies and I feel that any Steiner quotes taken
                    out
                    > of context can be misunderstood at the very least. I wonder if
                    there
                    > is anybody on this list that might feel like responding to this
                    > message. I am not qualified as I have not read the book.
                    >
                    > The best I might come up with is that Steiner is
                    > thinking "instinctive wisdom" should/should not die out and be
                    > replaced by something else? I feel that Steiner would not mean that
                    > people with dark skin/hair are less superior in any way. Thank you
                    > for your time. Leslie Russell
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Hello everyone,
                    >
                    > I am sending this as a cross post because I was shocked to read the
                    > following quote by Steiner.
                    >
                    > "You see, when we really study science and history, we must
                    conclude
                    > that if
                    > people become increasingly strong, they will also become
                    increasingly
                    > stupid. If the blonds and blue-eyed people die out, the human race
                    > will
                    > become increasingly dense if men do not arrive at a form of
                    > intelligence
                    > that is independent of blondness. Blond hair actually bestows
                    > intelligence.
                    > ... It is indeed true that the more the fair individuals die out
                    the
                    > more
                    > will the instinctive wisdom of humans vanish."
                    >
                    > [Rudolf Steiner, founder of Waldorf Schools. Health and Illness:
                    > Volume
                    > I,
                    > p86. (1922) Spring Valley: Anthroposophic Press, 1981]
                    >
                    > This sound like the precursor to the Nazis (and their eugenic
                    > campaign).
                    > Why would people follow such a man?
                    >
                    > Melissa

                    In the future will be less and less blonde people,because Earth is
                    aging and humans,as well.We need to replace so called `instinctive
                    wisdom` with wisdom INDEPENTED OF HAIR/SKIN COLOR ,with purely
                    spiritual wisdom.Speaking of that,Steiner did not have blonde
                    hair.Any association Steiner with Nazis or racisim is just make no
                    sense to me.What about jokes about blondes?Check
                    phenylketonuria,genetic disease,all kids have blonde hair and mental
                    retardation!

                    IGL
                  • Hogie McM
                    Re: the Michaelic era in the Hellenistic period, which would be the 2nd historical Michael Sun Epoch (each lasting 354 years as the end portion of each of the
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 30, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Re: the Michaelic era in the Hellenistic period,
                      which would be the 2nd historical Michael Sun Epoch
                      (each lasting 354 years as the end portion of each of the recurring
                      7-Archangelic cycles), was, according to Trithemius of Sponheim,
                      (and approximated by Dr. Steiner himself in footnotes in
                      'True and False Paths of Spiritual Investigation),
                      to be in the vicinity of 601 B.C- 247 B.C.
                       
                      The Oriphiel Epoch, during which the Mystery of Golgotha
                      occured, lasted from 247 B.C. - 109 A.D.
                       
                      In light of this, I am curious as to the source origins of the dates Lightsearcher gives of
                      the Michael Epoch during the Greaco-Roman Age being 325- 30 B.C.
                       
                      We are now living in the 3rd Historical Michael Sun Epoch
                      1879 A.D. - 2,233 A.D.
                       
                      Best,
                      Hogie
                       
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 4:07 PM
                      Subject: [anthroposophy] No controversy (with Harvey)

                      Harvey:

                      In its (positive) broad-strokes
                      I certainly agree with you.

                      But you've got to take a breather
                      from reading DISSENT, the NATION,
                      and IN THESE TIMES quite so
                      regularly.

                      And you might be somewhat over-sanguine and
                      idealistic about America(ns) when you say:

                      > the American People have thus far utterly
                      > failed to recognize that it is their unique
                      > and unsuspected destiny in world history to
                      > promulgate the spiritually-authored emergence
                      > and triumph of the Oneness of Humanity

                      I don't have the quote, but Steiner emphasised
                      that (for right or for wrong) the "American era"
                      would be an economic era spreading around the
                      globe. -- No, I don't like the trashy/plastic/tacky
                      way in which it has occurred, but I don't think
                      Steiner ever held out as "the American duty" the
                      task you describe.

                      No doubt each Michaelic era such as the Hellenistic
                      era (325 - 30 BC) and the current era (our own)
                      was/is/will be a period when the core feeling in
                      the pit of everyone's stomach is that "all the cards
                      are up in the air with no one knowing where they
                      will fall."

                      So give the process some space, and (let's) get out
                      of the way while the cards are falling, because
                      MICHAEL is the dealer while we're observing it
                      all from the table.

                      Tarjei Straume wrote:

                      "One of the most characteristic distinctions to
                      be made between the inspirations of Gabriel and
                      Michael is that Gabriel inspired national
                      romanticism and patriotism, but Michael seeks
                      to emancipate people from such group-consciousness
                      and implement instead universality, internationalism."

                      -- http://www.uncletaz.com/aproots.html

                      Tarjei said, "Michael seeks to emancipate people from
                      such group-consciousness..."

                      That's the problem with the Left and why the Left
                      is more dangerous and more spiritually backward
                      than the Right:

                      Blood/folk/tribe is the PAST, but the Left is trying
                      it its never-ending  multy-culty DVGD agitation --
                      (DVG means "designated victim-group of the Day") -- to
                      enslave people again to group/racial consciousness.

                      At least the RIGHT is more connected to the PRESENT,
                      and by this I mean the Economic forces of the PRESENT
                      which Steiner at least said would be be the manifestation
                      of America in the PRESENT.

                      . . . . . . . . . .

                      On your comments on testing and intelligence:

                      I was just marking objective fact. -- Most of us
                      can sense that the historical "high period" for
                      pragmatic scientific/material instrumentalism
                      and technicism is passing rapidly.

                      Steiner is NOT -- and neither was I -- applying
                      an ultimately POSITIVE connotation to the
                      "intelligence" that he was referring to.

                      And I hear ambivalence, or a "both/and" sense
                      in his words, because by "intelligence" he
                      seems to mean the concrete/utilitarian smarts
                      that the European peoples brought from the
                      1700's to the middle 1900's --

                      (RS:) "If the blonds and blue-eyed people die out,
                      the human race will become increasingly dense
                      if men do not arrive at a form of intelligence
                      that is independent of blondness. Blond hair
                      actually bestows intelligence. It is indeed
                      true that the more the fair individuals die
                      out the more will the instinctive wisdom of
                      humans vanish."

                      And maybe here he means "instinctive" in a
                      backward sense?

                      But I appreciated the greater substance and
                      articulateness of what you wrote.

                      LS (Lover of Synonymity)/1

                      P.S. --

                      COLUMNIST QUOTE OF THE WEEK:

                      Between issuing laws prohibiting discrimination
                      against transgendered individuals and running up
                      a $38 billion deficit, the California Legislature
                      mandated a three-week immersion course in Islam
                      for all seventh-graders.

                      A "crash course" in Islam, you might call it,
                      if that weren't so ironic.

                      Students are required to adopt Muslim names,
                      plan a trip to Mecca, play a jihad game, pray
                      to "Allah, the Compassionate" and to chant
                      "Praise to Allah! Lord of Creation!" They are
                      encouraged to dress in Muslim garb.

                      Students are discouraged, however, from stoning girls
                      at the school dances, abusing their "Jew" math teachers
                      or blowing up their classmates.

                      Book of the Year:

                      http://www.thbookservice.com/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6347











                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy
                      Unsubscribe:
                      anthroposophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com 
                      List owner:  anthroposophy-owner@yahoogroups.com 


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                    • Hogie McM
                      Hogie #2: The Hellenistic Age may have lasted from 325 B.C. - 30 B.C., but the Michael Epoch within Greaco-Roman times only went as far as 247 B.C. ... From:
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 30, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hogie #2:
                        The Hellenistic Age may have lasted from 325 B.C. - 30 B.C.,
                        but the Michael Epoch within Greaco-Roman times only went
                        as far as 247 B.C.
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 4:07 PM
                        Subject: [anthroposophy] No controversy (with Harvey)

                        Harvey:

                        In its (positive) broad-strokes
                        I certainly agree with you.

                        But you've got to take a breather
                        from reading DISSENT, the NATION,
                        and IN THESE TIMES quite so
                        regularly.

                        And you might be somewhat over-sanguine and
                        idealistic about America(ns) when you say:

                        > the American People have thus far utterly
                        > failed to recognize that it is their unique
                        > and unsuspected destiny in world history to
                        > promulgate the spiritually-authored emergence
                        > and triumph of the Oneness of Humanity

                        I don't have the quote, but Steiner emphasised
                        that (for right or for wrong) the "American era"
                        would be an economic era spreading around the
                        globe. -- No, I don't like the trashy/plastic/tacky
                        way in which it has occurred, but I don't think
                        Steiner ever held out as "the American duty" the
                        task you describe.

                        No doubt each Michaelic era such as the Hellenistic
                        era (325 - 30 BC) and the current era (our own)
                        was/is/will be a period when the core feeling in
                        the pit of everyone's stomach is that "all the cards
                        are up in the air with no one knowing where they
                        will fall."

                        So give the process some space, and (let's) get out
                        of the way while the cards are falling, because
                        MICHAEL is the dealer while we're observing it
                        all from the table.

                        Tarjei Straume wrote:

                        "One of the most characteristic distinctions to
                        be made between the inspirations of Gabriel and
                        Michael is that Gabriel inspired national
                        romanticism and patriotism, but Michael seeks
                        to emancipate people from such group-consciousness
                        and implement instead universality, internationalism."

                        -- http://www.uncletaz.com/aproots.html

                        Tarjei said, "Michael seeks to emancipate people from
                        such group-consciousness..."

                        That's the problem with the Left and why the Left
                        is more dangerous and more spiritually backward
                        than the Right:

                        Blood/folk/tribe is the PAST, but the Left is trying
                        it its never-ending  multy-culty DVGD agitation --
                        (DVG means "designated victim-group of the Day") -- to
                        enslave people again to group/racial consciousness.

                        At least the RIGHT is more connected to the PRESENT,
                        and by this I mean the Economic forces of the PRESENT
                        which Steiner at least said would be be the manifestation
                        of America in the PRESENT.

                        . . . . . . . . . .

                        On your comments on testing and intelligence:

                        I was just marking objective fact. -- Most of us
                        can sense that the historical "high period" for
                        pragmatic scientific/material instrumentalism
                        and technicism is passing rapidly.

                        Steiner is NOT -- and neither was I -- applying
                        an ultimately POSITIVE connotation to the
                        "intelligence" that he was referring to.

                        And I hear ambivalence, or a "both/and" sense
                        in his words, because by "intelligence" he
                        seems to mean the concrete/utilitarian smarts
                        that the European peoples brought from the
                        1700's to the middle 1900's --

                        (RS:) "If the blonds and blue-eyed people die out,
                        the human race will become increasingly dense
                        if men do not arrive at a form of intelligence
                        that is independent of blondness. Blond hair
                        actually bestows intelligence. It is indeed
                        true that the more the fair individuals die
                        out the more will the instinctive wisdom of
                        humans vanish."

                        And maybe here he means "instinctive" in a
                        backward sense?

                        But I appreciated the greater substance and
                        articulateness of what you wrote.

                        LS (Lover of Synonymity)/1

                        P.S. --

                        COLUMNIST QUOTE OF THE WEEK:

                        Between issuing laws prohibiting discrimination
                        against transgendered individuals and running up
                        a $38 billion deficit, the California Legislature
                        mandated a three-week immersion course in Islam
                        for all seventh-graders.

                        A "crash course" in Islam, you might call it,
                        if that weren't so ironic.

                        Students are required to adopt Muslim names,
                        plan a trip to Mecca, play a jihad game, pray
                        to "Allah, the Compassionate" and to chant
                        "Praise to Allah! Lord of Creation!" They are
                        encouraged to dress in Muslim garb.

                        Students are discouraged, however, from stoning girls
                        at the school dances, abusing their "Jew" math teachers
                        or blowing up their classmates.

                        Book of the Year:

                        http://www.thbookservice.com/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6347











                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy
                        Unsubscribe:
                        anthroposophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com 
                        List owner:  anthroposophy-owner@yahoogroups.com 


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                      • Bobby Matherne
                        Not sure how this discussion got started, but I have been aware since reading Karmic Relationships by Rudolf Steiner , Esoteric Studies, Volume 8, my review
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 30, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Not sure how this discussion got started, but I have been aware since
                          reading Karmic Relationships by Rudolf Steiner , Esoteric Studies,
                          Volume 8, my review at:
                          http://www.doyletics.com/arj/kr8rev.htm
                          , a few years ago that this is the
                          first Age of Mi-cha-el's reign since the Mystery of Golgotha. The years he
                          gave in Vol 8 shows Mi-cha-el as the reigning Archangel up shortly before
                          the Baptism of Jesus, I suspect :

                          Sphere A-angel 1st Year of Age
                          Sun Michael 1879 A.D.
                          Moon Gabriel 1570 A.D.
                          Mars Samael 1262 A.D.
                          Mercury Raphael 953 A.D.
                          Jupiter Zachariel 645 A.D.
                          Venus Anael 336 A.D.
                          Saturn Oriphiel 28 A.D.
                          Sun Michael 281 B.C.


                          Bobby



                          --
                          ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ ><(((°><°)))>< ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
                          "An Outline of Occult Science, Ch 1,2,3" by Rudolf Steiner
                          http://www.doyletics.com/arj/occsc123.htm
                          "The Loved One" by Evelyn Waugh
                          http://www.doyletics.com/arj/lovedone.htm
                          Reviews by Bobby Matherne ~ New Orleans, Louisiana
                        • Hogie McM
                          Here are some dates (noted approx) listed by Rudolf Steiner as the beginning of the Archangelic cycles(listed here backwards in time): Michael (present epoch)
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 30, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Here are some dates (noted approx) listed by Rudolf Steiner as the beginning of
                            the Archangelic cycles(listed here backwards in time):
                             
                            Michael (present epoch) 1879 A.D.  3rd Historical Michael Epoch
                            Gabriel  1510 A.D.
                            Samael  1190 A.D.
                            Raphael 850 A.D.
                            Zachariel 500 A.D.
                            Anael 150 A.D.
                            Oripheal 200 B.C.
                             
                            Michael  approx 600 B.C. (2nd Historical Michael Epoch)
                            1st Historical Michael Epoch during the Time of Gilgamesh, approx 3000 b.c.
                             
                            +++++++++++++++++++++=
                             
                            According to Trithemius of Sponheim: (each cycle approx 354 years)
                            One complete cycle of 7 Archangels = 2480 years.
                             
                            Michael 1879 A.D.
                            Gabriel  1525 A.D.
                            Samael  1171 A.D.
                            Raphael  814 A.D.
                            Zachariel  463 A.D.
                            Anael  109 A.D.
                            Oriphiel 245 B.C. - 109 A,D (Mystery of Golgotha 33 A.D.)
                             
                            Michael  601 B.C. - 245 B.C. (Battle of Salamis/Thermopylae 480 B.C.)
                            Gabriel   955 B.C.
                            Samael  1309 B.C.
                            Raphael 1663 B.C.
                            Zachariel 2017 B.C.
                            Anael  2371 B.C.
                            Oriphiel 2725 B.C.
                             
                            Michael  3079 B.C. - 2725 B.C. (Time of Gilgamesh)(1ST Historical Michael Epoch)
                            Gabriel   3435 B.C.
                            Samael  3789 B.C.
                            Raphael  4143 B.C.
                            Zachariel  4497 B.C.
                            Anael   4851 B.C.
                            Oriphiel 5205 B.C.
                             
                            Michael  5559 B.C. (the last Non-Historical Michael Epoch)
                            etc.
                             
                            The beginning of the Old Indian Age (7,227 B.C.)= the beginning of the Post-Atlantean Epoch (7 cultural ages)
                            occurred just inside the beginning of the Anael epoch (7329 B.C.- 6975 B.C.)
                             
                            9,584 B.C. was the last period of destruction of Atlantis (Poseidian islands), last outpouring,
                            the Flood, and the last vestiges of the 7th Atlantean race, the Mongols.
                             
                            I could go further, but I'll stop there!
                             
                            Best to All,
                            Hogie
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 4:02 PM
                            Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] No controversy (with Harvey)

                            Not sure how this discussion got started, but I have been aware since
                            reading Karmic Relationships by  Rudolf Steiner , Esoteric Studies,
                            Volume 8, my review at:
                            http://www.doyletics.com/arj/kr8rev.htm
                            , a few years ago that this is the
                            first Age of Mi-cha-el's reign since the Mystery of Golgotha. The years he
                            gave in Vol 8 shows Mi-cha-el as the reigning Archangel up shortly before
                            the Baptism of Jesus, I suspect :

                                        Sphere  A-angel 1st Year of Age
                                             Sun  Michael  1879 A.D.
                                             Moon  Gabriel 1570 A.D.
                                             Mars  Samael 1262 A.D.
                                             Mercury Raphael 953 A.D.
                                             Jupiter  Zachariel  645 A.D.
                                             Venus  Anael  336 A.D.
                                             Saturn Oriphiel 28 A.D.
                                             Sun  Michael 281 B.C.


                            Bobby



                            --
                            ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ ><(((°><°)))>< ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
                            "An Outline of Occult Science, Ch 1,2,3" by Rudolf Steiner
                            http://www.doyletics.com/arj/occsc123.htm
                            "The Loved One" by Evelyn Waugh 
                            http://www.doyletics.com/arj/lovedone.htm
                            Reviews by Bobby Matherne ~ New Orleans, Louisiana




                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy
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                          • leslie russell
                            Harvey, Thank you for the entertaining and thought provoking post. Below you will find a copy of the quote which was taken out of context. The problem I am
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 30, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Harvey,
                               
                                Thank you for the entertaining and thought provoking post. Below you will find a copy of the quote which was taken out of context. The problem I am having is not that I personally believe Steiner was a racist, it is just that it has been such a trial to simply ignore the angst of so many people on my Waldorf Homeschooling list. For some reason it is really a heart issue for me. Although I do not believe it is my duty to inform and enlighten the 100's of list members I also feel that to bring nothing in response is not going to set well with me either.
                               
                                In light of the last few posts I want to run something by you.(remember I am a newbie)
                              During the period/sphere of the arch angel Gabriel was it not part of his "job" to bring division to mankind through racial/tribal groups? Family lines and such? (I am also thinking of Babel) That we had to experience differences before we could overcome the divisions? Then when Steiner came into the picture the Michael era was being ushered in? With Michael we are moving towards bringing an end to prejudices across the world (patriarchal ideas, racial, slavery etc.) We are moving towards unity worldwide.
                               
                                I suppose I am wanting input so that I can flesh out my ideas. I know that anything that has had lasting value, (great concepts in history) have been met with opposition. It is just uncomfortable for me. ( poor me!)
                               
                                The little Anthroposophy that I have studied makes my heart sing, Unfortunately I am unable to move forward at any pace but that of a snail. No doubt this is for a reason...I wish that I had enough of an understanding to take some thoughts back to my homeschooling group.I have a strong desire to put out this fire.I appreciate any input at all.
                               
                               Warmly,
                               
                              Leslie
                               
                              "You see, when we really study science and history, we must conclude
                              that if
                              people become increasingly strong, they will also become increasingly
                              stupid. If the blonds and blue-eyed people die out, the human race will
                              become increasingly dense if men do not arrive at a form of
                              intelligence
                              that is independent of blondness. Blond hair actually bestows
                              intelligence.
                              ... It is indeed true that the more the fair individuals die out the
                              more
                              will the instinctive wisdom of humans vanish."

                              [Rudolf Steiner, founder of Waldorf Schools. Health and Illness: Volume
                              I,
                              p86. (1922) Spring Valley: Anthroposophic Press, 1981]




                              Harvey Bornfield <earlyfire@...> wrote:
                              Dear Leslie,

                              Steiner addressed more profoundly than anyone in recent memory the issue of the watershed of talents once associated with racial characteristics, and of how this changes from group-driven to individually-sourced initiatives as we transition into modern times. In his masterwork "The Mission of Folk Souls, the ties to the Races, the Planets, the organs of the body, the hierarchies which cooperated in their differentiation, and the tie to the mythology and folklore are adeptly connected. And this is a delicious subject which deserves airing.

                              Moving on:
                              Material, empirically-seated, "brain-based" intelligence and the resourcefulness it spawns in our ability to grasp and externally manipulate the physical world is, to be sure, awesome' (the polite abbreviation for awesome!!!!), but, in the last analysis, intelligence, the "IQ", one of the great obsessions of educators during my childhood, as well as its bastard-heir-apparent  "Norms-based testing", which makes lame, devout and obnoxious Jihad - - -  " Intelligence " (pause fo kneel, "One nation, Under Intelligence")  what a great applauseweorthy ring the word still sports, is, alas, you universe of creepy-crawly CPA's, but one of many foci of human capacity, and a great distraction to matters of depth, compassion and the pursuit of happiness. 

                              In times past blood-bound, race-linked connections conferred identity upon people through affiliation, and held powerful instinctive sway as determinants of the way peoples were focused in various ages upon various stages. This, all this in order to mature certain perspectives and industry in the "heyday" of certain groups which 'island', which populate the riverrun of successive civilizations, leaving impressive bookmarks.

                              Yet when these civilizations fall by the wayside, it is very much like a serpent molting a skin grown outmoded and constricting. If you ponder and embrace this compelling imagination, inviting it inside your life of thought, then it is wasy to anticipate that successive cultures will also arise, and be as newer, more outer tree rings upon a single tree of the life of all humanity, so that in a following spiritual springtime, they will be superceded by a new purposes. (Reflects a moment: One cannot pit different tree-rings of the same One Entity, against each other. What bizarre and twisted a notion be that). So we fast forward to today: The capacity for material Intelligence is now becoming transmuted, fructified into Self-evidencing Intuition as a means to penetrating, "conversing with", discovering as it were, or, I stand corrected, as it WILL BE, ......discovering, touching, accessing, what's the word I'm looking for?......Revealing the secrets of both the material and the subtle universe. Forgive me: Earlyfire loves strophic exposition. The following is a paid advertisement:
                              Long live Ancient Greece, Long live Shakespeare. (Before there was spin there is Fortspinnung)

                              Now, to the heart of the matter:
                              Racism is a form of group egocentricity, in which a 'Herd of People", fall in love with their little island in the riverrun, and acquiring a vested interest in dominating history, wax tyrannical, chauvinistic and arrogant, and marring their gifts to the cosmos and to man with all manner of partisan cruelty, imagining that what they have or are still developing, entitles them to certain unique privileges among men, among the most offensive of which are the economic and psychological domination of others, fail to recognize that in reality, the hierarchies which guide, which spark, which inspire groups of people to develop higher talents, at all times intend to make their accomlishments available altruistically for bestowal, to disbursed far and wide upon all humanity as universal legacy. Greek Philosophy, Roman Law, the emergence of Scientific perspective at the time of the European Renaissance, (seeded by the unacknowledged importation of algebra and chemistry developed under Arabic Islamic auspices during Europe's Dark Ages) - those cultures, peoples, races who were honored with the task of bringing them forth, if they turn prejudiced and refuse to travel forward from their island, remain behind, stuck in their mileposts, in love with their bookmarks, losing, receding ever more greatly out of touch with incoming chapters of emerging purpose, so suffering then, an ever widening gap between their own fortress and those who pioneer new and epic tasks appropriate to the expanding of civilization.

                              Behold  Fortress America, the Saddam Bush syndrome, a deadly disease of oblivion seated in the political administration of the nation, how phenomenologically similar, how closely bound up in oppressive intent to equate dialogue with heresy, how it employs the same forces, and will doubtless be recognized as a variation of racism. It is allowed to fester because the American People have thus far utterly failed to recognize that it is their unique and unsuspected destiny in world history to promulgate the spiritually-authored emergence and triumph of the Oneness of Humanity over all the outmoded 'sold-separately' and vastly disfunctional nationalistic points of view, which are dinosaurs.

                              In Europe, which suffering the blows and sacrifice of hundreds of years of secular and religious wars, there has already begun to emerge a socially and economically tamed confederation of cooperating nations, which prophecies, artistically foreshadows the arising of a unity which transcends nationalistic viewpoints. In America, we will take this hierarchically-inspired initiative one step further: Confronted with a wondrous courage-inspiring task, an uphill climb like to the conquest of Everest, that of conquering the prejudices within our own melting pot which, despite praiseworthy advances through the martyrdom of JFK and MLK and others, remains nontheless most dire.

                              So when the man from the Publisher's clearing house knocks, he unscrolls the following message: Congratulations, American People' (an abbreviation for ......:-)))
                              Catharsed thus of all traces of hatred, and even of the euphoria of young, love which blinds clear wide-angle sight, America, you have earned through the replacement of "fast food" with "Vast food" the right to decide to wrest yourself free from the unannounced siege by the "Empire Rednecks" whose Pinnochio-like strings are digitally manipulated by hosts of the Clandestine who imagine themselves immune to detection and aloof from moral influence.

                              And swiftly following on the heels of a decision to rise to champion the Oneness of Humanity, will pull off a swift and sudden triumph over those who are loyalty and dogma addicts. And with the ascent of Humanity as One, and the laying to rest forever of the word "Foreign", there will be no such possibility of authoring a "Foreign Policy" But you will have to decide whether the cup is half empty or half full. 

                              Recall Prospero in the Tempest:
                              Gentle breath of yours my sails Must fill, or else my project fails, Which was to please. Now I want Spirits to enforce, art to enchant; And my ending is despair Unless I be reliev'd by prayer, Which pierces so that it assaults Mercy itself, and frees all faults. As you from crimes would pardon'd be, Let your indulgence set me free. THE END

                              But now, intermission is over:

                              Steiner who, as a visionary far ahead of his contemporaries, well knew that group bonding was dissolving into individualized spheres of responsibility, that group racial and tribal affiliation are, even as we speak, happily giving way, ever and irrevokably loosening under the charisma of emerging individual initiative, anticipated that entire palette of spiritual traits such as intelligence, wisdom and moral virtue are becoming dependent upon human decision making, upon impulses of leaderless, priestless choice, rather than unconsciously guided impulses as in the past, or decisions superimposed "IN BEHALF of" those by self-styled power-brokers who nihilistically imagine individuals are lacking in vision and responsibility and grit to transact such dialogue as empowers and underwrites democratic processes.

                              Exhale now, this is a slow transition. We all look forward to maturing to the recognition that the celebration of racial diversity is perfect and welcome, and makes a long overdue antidote eminently capable of overthrowing negative scathe and judgmental condemnations of physiologically-defined differences, which is the sorry state of affairs of contemporary humanity.

                              To release the hold of race and blood as primary determinants, as fundamental influences in the evolution of qualities, capacities and virtues among men, one must desire to laugh at the funeral, at the laying to rest of outmoded and barbaric prejudice of all genres, including the one which blackmails your ideality and jades your dreams, and handcuffs your ascent to moral initiatives, the one you darkly whisper to yourself
                              I, creepy-crawly CPA, have calculated the odds: "It can't happen here".

                              Tell your Waldorf home-schoolers that on Harduf Kibbutz in Isreal, there is a Waldorf school in which Jews and Arabs share common educational auspices. Could it be possible that such an unrivalled, futuristic blend of peoples could be the fruits by which the Christ said ye shall know them, the fruits of a racist?

                              Warm Regards,
                              Harvey
                              Tucson, Arizona

                               

                              At 1052 PM 9/27/2003, you wrote

                              Hello all,

                                I am pasting a post from a Waldorf home schooling page that I
                              belong to. It is causing agitation among group members. I recently
                              began Foundation Studies and I feel that any Steiner quotes taken out
                              of context can be misunderstood at the very least. I wonder if there
                              is anybody on this list that might feel like responding to this
                              message. I am not qualified as I have not read the book.

                                The best I might come up with is that Steiner is
                              thinking "instinctive wisdom" should/should not die out and be
                              replaced by something else? I feel that Steiner would not mean that
                              people with dark skin/hair are less superior in any way. Thank you
                              for your time.  Leslie Russell

                              "Music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind, but mankind cannot comprehend."
                              Ludwig van Beethoven




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                            • Bobby Matherne
                              Dear Hogie, Sounds like there are disagreements around the dates. Another controlversy. Bobby -- ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
                              Message 14 of 19 , Oct 1, 2003
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                                Dear Hogie,

                                Sounds like there are disagreements around the dates. Another controlversy.

                                Bobby

                                --
                                ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ ><(((°> <°)))>< ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
                                "An Outline of Occult Science, Ch 1,2,3" by Rudolf Steiner
                                http://www.doyletics.com/arj/occsc123.htm
                                October Good Mtn Press Digest
                                http://www.doyletics.com/digest41.htm
                                Reviews by Bobby Matherne ~ New Orleans, Louisiana
                              • Hogie McM
                                DEAR BOBBY: UNLIKE OTHER CONTROVERSIES, MINE ARE NOT CONTROLLING.....NOR ARE YOURS.... EVERYONE DOES THEIR RESEARCH.....IVE SPENT MANY YEARS COMPILING MINE AS
                                Message 15 of 19 , Oct 1, 2003
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                                  DEAR BOBBY:
                                  UNLIKE OTHER CONTROVERSIES,
                                  MINE ARE NOT CONTROLLING.....NOR ARE YOURS....
                                  EVERYONE DOES THEIR RESEARCH.....IVE SPENT MANY YEARS
                                  COMPILING MINE AS HAVE YOURS....
                                  AND WE SHARE WHAT WE HAVE CULLED WITH OTHERS...
                                   
                                  IF ONE IS NOURISHED, LOOSELY HOLDING OPINIONS AND BELIEFS ARE
                                  JUSTIFIED....
                                   
                                  THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HEALING HELP,
                                  HOGIE
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 7:26 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] No controversy (with Harvey)

                                  Dear Hogie,

                                  Sounds like there are disagreements around the dates. Another controlversy.

                                  Bobby

                                  --
                                  ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ ><(((°> <°)))>< ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
                                  "An Outline of Occult Science, Ch 1,2,3" by Rudolf Steiner
                                  http://www.doyletics.com/arj/occsc123.htm
                                  October Good Mtn Press Digest
                                  http://www.doyletics.com/digest41.htm
                                  Reviews by Bobby Matherne ~ New Orleans, Louisiana



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                                • leslie russell
                                  Might anybody on this list suggest a more suitable on line study group for a beginner? Thank You. Leslie ... Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Oct 1, 2003
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                                    Might anybody on this list suggest a more suitable on line study group for a beginner? Thank You.

                                     

                                    Leslie


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                                  • Morgan Vierheller
                                    Dear Leslie; I m not sure what you are interested in. There is a Waldorf list that is aimed primarily at parents of children in Waldorf (Steiner inspired)
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Oct 1, 2003
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                                      Dear Leslie;

                                      I'm not sure what you are interested in.  There is a Waldorf list that is aimed primarily at parents of children in Waldorf (Steiner inspired) schools.  On that list you will find many parents that are just starting out with anthroposophy.
                                      A basic look into anthroposophy itself can b found in the book, Theosophy.

                                      Good luck,

                                      Morgan Vierheller
                                      leslie russell wrote:

                                       
                                      Might anybody on this list suggest a more suitable on line study group for a beginner? Thank You.
                                       
                                       

                                      Leslie


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                                    • Maurice McCarthy
                                      There used to be a group, in yahoo if I m not mistaken and I m likely to be wrong, for those new to anthroposophy. It was run from Bristol UK but I ve no idea
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Oct 1, 2003
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                                        There used to be a group, in yahoo if I'm not mistaken and I'm likely to be
                                        wrong, for those new to anthroposophy. It was run from Bristol UK but I've
                                        no idea if it still goes.

                                        Best Wishes
                                        Maurice

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: leslie russell [mailto:leslierussell1@...]
                                        Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 02:11 AM
                                        To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [anthroposophy] Another group?



                                        Might anybody on this list suggest a more suitable on line study group for a
                                        beginner? Thank You.



                                        Leslie




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                                      • Lee Peters
                                        Though there is great depth of knowledge among those here, it is always good to review and return to basics. I suggest you ignore what may be confusing or
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Oct 5, 2003
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                                          Though there is great depth of knowledge among those here, it is always good to review and return to basics. I suggest you ignore what may be confusing or unfamiliar and ask any basic questions you may have. One good place is seek others in your area who may be affiliated with AP, if not maybe someone here will act as mentor off line and assist you with your interests. A good starting place is :Founding of a Science of the Spirit by Steiner which was a more accessible approach to the AP essentials than Occult Science or the other basic works. 
                                           
                                          It should also be remembered that in spite of great erudition, the proof of any spiritual path is in direct experience and wisdom not in reading books or having intellectual  knowledge. Though this is path of "knowledge", real knowledge comes from meditation practice and study, life, and direct experience that come from living the spiritual life. All the talk in the world about "ethers" or astral worlds mean little unless one actually has experience of these subtle realms.
                                           
                                          Lee

                                          Leslie Russell <Leslie's1@...> wrote:

                                          Might anybody on this list suggest a more suitable on line study group for a beginner? Thank You.

                                           

                                          Leslie


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