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Innocence&ExperienceRE: The Two Jesus's

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  • elaine upton
    Hello Daniel and all, In my reply on the two Jesus children, I referred to Steiner s teaching that these two Jesus children were from two genealogical lines,
    Message 1 of 1 , May 2, 2000
      Hello Daniel and all,

      In my reply on the two Jesus children, I referred to Steiner's teaching
      that these two Jesus children were from two genealogical lines, one showing
      perfect innocence (the Nathan line) and one showing perfected wisdom (the
      Solomon line). I also said this reminded me of Blake's Songs of Innocence
      and Experience and S. Messenger's saying these are limited, but carried
      further in Steiner's teaching of Imagination, Inspiration, Intuition.

      Bear with me, please, and I will relate what i am seeing in Blake's poems to
      the question of the Two Jesus Children, and I will welcome discussion,
      comment, etc. from any and all of you.

      In the previous post, I promised to have a look again at Blake and to post
      from "The Songs of Innocence and Experience" (SIE). ((The famous ones many
      know already (the lamb poem in the Innocence section, and the Tiger and
      Sunflower poems in the Experience section.)) --However, upon reading these,
      I find myself full of questions, on what Blake, or his persona, considers to
      be "innocence" and "experience." Innocence has some disturbing racial
      aspects in the song of the little "black boy" who is innocent, but in the
      end is seen as aspiring to become like the white boy, and the white boy will
      then love him. Very disturbing!

      Also, in the Experience section, lots of poems of lament, some quite
      powerful, but ultimately these are based on a rather empirical, materialist
      view where experience is an empirical kind of thing. (I never thought i
      would be saying this about the so-called highly spiritual and enigmatic

      Indeed, if we take this further, as Steiner might, into the realms beyond
      "experience" (empirical, observation in the often troubling material world,
      where Blake's poems return..even though there is talk of the Divine), if we
      go beyond this limited "experience" we come upon Steiner's

      Imagination, Inspiration, Intuition.

      --Now, I don't claim to understand all of what Steiner is teaching here, but
      I do find it helpful to think, as Messenger indicated, of Imagination as the
      first step beyond merely empirically based experience. When we Imagine we
      come upon something new, so to speak.

      Now, here's where the question of the Two Jesus children comes in for me,
      and I am not offering this as a complete understanding, but as some thoughts
      that come, so far. The two Jesus children show the qualities of innocence
      and wisdom. When you see innocence in relationship to wisdom, rather than
      Blake's model of innocence in relationship to experience, you get something
      quite different, it seems to me. Wisdom, ancient Divine Wisdom, the wisdom
      within, the Wisdom of Anthro-po-SOPHIA is quite different than empirically
      based Experience of the troubles (or even delights)of this world, as in
      Blake's poems. When there is Wisdom, as Messenger says, there is no such
      thing as "lost innocence", but innocence is taken to a higher level.

      Thus, the movement through the Earthly Jesus life (training with Essenes and
      all previous wisdom through the Solomon line) is brought to fruition in the
      Sophia/Wisdom stream, in the Holy Spirit and the Pentecostal Event --after
      the Ascension event. We now move from Easter through Ascension to Pentecost.

      The other event of Birth is a phase of innocence. Yet even that shows the
      two aspects of Wisdom and Innocence. The shepherds are there, representing
      Innocence. The Magi are there, representing Wisdom. Both are necessary.

      Now, I am sure there is much more to say. I would be glad for insights of
      others here, any and all of you, including Daniel.

      Pace e Bene,

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