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  • holderlin66
    THE BOMBS OF AUGUST In Remembrance of Hiroshima and Nagasaki When the bombs were dropped I was very happy. The war would be over now, they said, and I was
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 9, 2003
      THE BOMBS OF AUGUST

      In Remembrance of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

      When the bombs were dropped I was very happy. The war would be over
      now, they said, and I was very happy. The boys would be coming home
      very soon they said, and I was very happy. We showed `em, they said,
      and I was very happy. They told us that the cities of Hiroshima and
      Nagasaki had been destroyed, and I was very happy. But in August of
      1945 I was only ten years old, and I was very, very happy.

      The crew of the B-29 was so young and heroic, and in the photo they
      also looked very happy. For some reason, I clearly remember the name
      of the pilot, Paul Tibbets. Of course I remember the name of the
      plane, the Enola Gay. And oh yes, I remember the name of the bomb.
      It was called "Little Boy." That made me smile.

      I was so proud to be an American that day because we had done
      something so remarkable. They said we were the first. We were
      Americans. We were powerful. But they didn't say that Little Boy had
      killed 66,000 people with its huge fireball that fateful day in
      August. They didn't say that Hiroshima was not a military target, but
      a city filled with men and women and children and animals who had no
      idea they were about to die so horribly. When you're ten, they don't
      always tell you everything.

      I don't think anyone made as big a fuss over the second plane, or its
      crew. Are they even in the Smithsonian? Second best doesn't count, I
      suppose, but I remember wondering why they had done it again.
      Wouldn't the war be over anyway, like they said? Weren't the boys
      coming home very soon? Hadn't they already showed `em how strong we
      were in Hiroshima? So they told me that the second bomb was called
      Fat Boy, and that made me smile.

      So I was even prouder to be an American that second day. They said
      this would be the end for sure, and after all, these people were the
      enemy and you kill the enemy when you can. But they didn't tell me
      that Fat Boy had killed 39,000 human beings with another fireball on
      another day in August. They didn't tell me thatNagasaki was not a
      military target, but a city filled withÂ…well, you know. They didn't
      even tell me that there were horses trapped in the flames of
      Nagasaki, because I loved horses and that would have made me sad. But
      when you're ten, they don't tell you everything.

      Today I'm no longer ten, and I am no longer happy when bombs fall.
      And the names Big Boy and Fat Boy no longer make me smile because I
      now know the devastation and horror of burned bodies and twisted
      metal that result from the mushroom clouds. And I am ashamed that on
      this day Americans don't stop to remember what was done. And I am
      horrified that my government has just killed thousands of defenseless
      men and women and children and animals who were not the enemy, and
      that the silence of America is deafening.

      Today, I am so very sad that many young people don't even know about
      the Enola Gay and the mission of its crew. And I am so terribly
      ashamed that the war we have just waged has been so devoid of the
      reality of death and pain. They haven't told us about the thousands
      of civilians they have killed. They haven't shown us the devastation
      they have caused. They withhold the true numbers of our own military
      who die each day. They never mention the hundreds who have been
      terribly wounded. War is surgical and sanitized, they tell us, and a
      very effective way to liberate people. They speak to us as if we all
      were ten.

      George W. Bush is not ten. He has announced to the world that he, as
      the leader of this great nation, has the right to use nuclear weapons
      once again. This time, he says, he has the right to char men and
      women and children and animals if he "suspects" their leaders of
      being a threat to us. He is not ten. He really isn't. Then why is
      he so very happy? And why, please tell me, is he still smiling?

      Contributing Editor
      TvNewsLies.org - 09-August-2003
    • Hueyfen Ding
      Please allow me to express some different point of view in regard to this war matter. Being a Chinese immigrant in the US, my parents were direct victims from
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 10, 2003
        Please allow me to express some different
        point of view in regard to this war matter.

        Being a Chinese immigrant in the US, my parents
        were direct victims from the Japanese invasion
        during the WWII. i grew up reading the latest
        hundred year Chinese history even more tragic than
        Irag today. Remember HongKong was only returned
        to China recently after 99 years colony under UK.
        Ironically, lots of HK people were reluctant to
        go back to China citizenship. Ironically, lots of
        Asian people grew up loving the western freedom
        spirit more than their old tradition.

        It's never justified to ever kill a single human being
        no matter what. But there are so many factors
        playing into any kind of phenomenom including the
        complicated decision of war. And if we as seekers
        of truth striving so vigorously to uncover the wisdom
        behind all these turmoils, let's seek the freedom
        of light in economy, social, and politics - even
        in these seeming dark and foggy times.

        Best Regards,

        Hueyfen Ding

        --- holderlin66 <holderlin66@...> wrote:
        > THE BOMBS OF AUGUST
        >
        > In Remembrance of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
        >
        > When the bombs were dropped I was very happy. The
        > war would be over
        > now, they said, and I was very happy. The boys
        > would be coming home
        > very soon they said, and I was very happy. We
        > showed `em, they said,
        > and I was very happy. They told us that the cities
        > of Hiroshima and
        > Nagasaki had been destroyed, and I was very happy.
        > But in August of
        > 1945 I was only ten years old, and I was very, very
        > happy.
        >
        > The crew of the B-29 was so young and heroic, and in
        > the photo they
        > also looked very happy. For some reason, I clearly
        > remember the name
        > of the pilot, Paul Tibbets. Of course I remember the
        > name of the
        > plane, the Enola Gay. And oh yes, I remember the
        > name of the bomb.
        > It was called "Little Boy." That made me smile.
        >
        > I was so proud to be an American that day because we
        > had done
        > something so remarkable. They said we were the
        > first. We were
        > Americans. We were powerful. But they didn't say
        > that Little Boy had
        > killed 66,000 people with its huge fireball that
        > fateful day in
        > August. They didn't say that Hiroshima was not a
        > military target, but
        > a city filled with men and women and children and
        > animals who had no
        > idea they were about to die so horribly. When
        > you're ten, they don't
        > always tell you everything.
        >
        > I don't think anyone made as big a fuss over the
        > second plane, or its
        > crew. Are they even in the Smithsonian? Second best
        > doesn't count, I
        > suppose, but I remember wondering why they had done
        > it again.
        > Wouldn't the war be over anyway, like they said?
        > Weren't the boys
        > coming home very soon? Hadn't they already showed
        > `em how strong we
        > were in Hiroshima? So they told me that the second
        > bomb was called
        > Fat Boy, and that made me smile.
        >
        > So I was even prouder to be an American that second
        > day. They said
        > this would be the end for sure, and after all, these
        > people were the
        > enemy and you kill the enemy when you can. But they
        > didn't tell me
        > that Fat Boy had killed 39,000 human beings with
        > another fireball on
        > another day in August. They didn't tell me
        > thatNagasaki was not a
        > military target, but a city filled withell,
        you
        > know. They didn't
        > even tell me that there were horses trapped in the
        > flames of
        > Nagasaki, because I loved horses and that would have
        > made me sad. But
        > when you're ten, they don't tell you everything.
        >
        > Today I'm no longer ten, and I am no longer happy
        > when bombs fall.
        > And the names Big Boy and Fat Boy no longer make me
        > smile because I
        > now know the devastation and horror of burned bodies
        > and twisted
        > metal that result from the mushroom clouds. And I am
        > ashamed that on
        > this day Americans don't stop to remember what was
        > done. And I am
        > horrified that my government has just killed
        > thousands of defenseless
        > men and women and children and animals who were not
        > the enemy, and
        > that the silence of America is deafening.
        >
        > Today, I am so very sad that many young people don't
        > even know about
        > the Enola Gay and the mission of its crew. And I am
        > so terribly
        > ashamed that the war we have just waged has been so
        > devoid of the
        > reality of death and pain. They haven't told us
        > about the thousands
        > of civilians they have killed. They haven't shown
        > us the devastation
        > they have caused. They withhold the true numbers of
        > our own military
        > who die each day. They never mention the hundreds
        > who have been
        > terribly wounded. War is surgical and sanitized,
        > they tell us, and a
        > very effective way to liberate people. They speak to
        > us as if we all
        > were ten.
        >
        > George W. Bush is not ten. He has announced to the
        > world that he, as
        > the leader of this great nation, has the right to
        > use nuclear weapons
        > once again. This time, he says, he has the right to
        > char men and
        > women and children and animals if he "suspects"
        > their leaders of
        > being a threat to us. He is not ten. He really
        > isn't. Then why is
        > he so very happy? And why, please tell me, is he
        > still smiling?
        >
        > Contributing Editor
        > TvNewsLies.org - 09-August-2003
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
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        >


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      • holderlin66
        ... Dear Hueyfen; Along with Dark Light and Radioactivty and the Christ Event, the essay included was not my essay, was not the opinion of Spiritual Science. I
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 11, 2003
          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Hueyfen Ding
          <hueyfen_ding@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Please allow me to express some different
          > point of view in regard to this war matter.
          >
          > Being a Chinese immigrant in the US, my parents
          > were direct victims from the Japanese invasion
          > during the WWII. i grew up reading the latest
          > hundred year Chinese history even more tragic than
          > Irag today. Remember HongKong was only returned
          > to China recently after 99 years colony under UK.
          > Ironically, lots of HK people were reluctant to
          > go back to China citizenship. Ironically, lots of
          > Asian people grew up loving the western freedom
          > spirit more than their old tradition.
          >
          > It's never justified to ever kill a single human being
          > no matter what. But there are so many factors
          > playing into any kind of phenomenom including the
          > complicated decision of war. And if we as seekers
          > of truth striving so vigorously to uncover the wisdom
          > behind all these turmoils, let's seek the freedom
          > of light in economy, social, and politics - even
          > in these seeming dark and foggy times.
          >
          > Best Regards,
          >
          > Hueyfen Ding

          Dear Hueyfen;

          Along with Dark Light and Radioactivty and the Christ Event, the
          essay included was not my essay, was not the opinion of Spiritual
          Science. I had, along with others here, tried to reveal that the
          false celebration and the false Preemptive Strikes presented as New
          Law to the World under American leadership, has brought us to a
          potential War with N. Korea and is not something any of us, IMO, feel
          or think is right. We agree with you, but sometimes a list such as
          this, has very little understanding of the historical realities, the
          horror and the crisis that all humanity is in by making our Relgion -
          Nuclear Might.

          I personally agree with your perception and I wish to tell you that
          the article on Hiroshima was not ours but were thoughts that the
          world around us were thinking about as the Festival of the Fire Death
          of thousands once more crossed our etheric memories. All of us feel
          the need to prevent any more aggression in nuclear War on this planet.
          If I can help in any way or others, let us know.

          Bradford
        • joksu57
          ... New ... feel ... the ... Relgion - ... that ... Death ... feel ... planet. ... Joksu writes: Hello listmates! My vacation is over and I found out Andrea
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 12, 2003
            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
            <holderlin66@h...> wrote:
            > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Hueyfen Ding
            > <hueyfen_ding@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Please allow me to express some different
            > > point of view in regard to this war matter.
            > >
            > > Being a Chinese immigrant in the US, my parents
            > > were direct victims from the Japanese invasion
            > > during the WWII. i grew up reading the latest
            > > hundred year Chinese history even more tragic than
            > > Irag today. Remember HongKong was only returned
            > > to China recently after 99 years colony under UK.
            > > Ironically, lots of HK people were reluctant to
            > > go back to China citizenship. Ironically, lots of
            > > Asian people grew up loving the western freedom
            > > spirit more than their old tradition.
            > >
            > > It's never justified to ever kill a single human being
            > > no matter what. But there are so many factors
            > > playing into any kind of phenomenom including the
            > > complicated decision of war. And if we as seekers
            > > of truth striving so vigorously to uncover the wisdom
            > > behind all these turmoils, let's seek the freedom
            > > of light in economy, social, and politics - even
            > > in these seeming dark and foggy times.
            > >
            > > Best Regards,
            > >
            > > Hueyfen Ding
            >
            > Dear Hueyfen;
            >
            > Along with Dark Light and Radioactivty and the Christ Event, the
            > essay included was not my essay, was not the opinion of Spiritual
            > Science. I had, along with others here, tried to reveal that the
            > false celebration and the false Preemptive Strikes presented as
            New
            > Law to the World under American leadership, has brought us to a
            > potential War with N. Korea and is not something any of us, IMO,
            feel
            > or think is right. We agree with you, but sometimes a list such as
            > this, has very little understanding of the historical realities,
            the
            > horror and the crisis that all humanity is in by making our
            Relgion -
            > Nuclear Might.
            >
            > I personally agree with your perception and I wish to tell you
            that
            > the article on Hiroshima was not ours but were thoughts that the
            > world around us were thinking about as the Festival of the Fire
            Death
            > of thousands once more crossed our etheric memories. All of us
            feel
            > the need to prevent any more aggression in nuclear War on this
            planet.
            > If I can help in any way or others, let us know.
            >
            > Bradford


            Joksu writes:

            Hello listmates!

            My vacation is over and I found out Andrea talking about the hot
            summer 2003. I can confirm that this was the case also in Finland.
            The temperature during three weeks was approximately 30 Celsius,
            which is extremely hot in these regions. I know that it has been
            much warmer in Middle and South Europe, but here the sun just keeps
            on shining, because the night is very short... (Well, the
            temperature is now a normal 20 C.) And then to other "burning
            issues"...

            Questions about war and peace come frequently up in this list and
            they are especially interesting now, when Mars is approaching our
            planet. I think that it is the duty of the spiritual seekers to
            present higher ideals (also ethical) than what are prevailing in
            the "normal society". In the light of the spiritual science the
            practices of every goverment seem to be inadequate and this is quite
            understandable.

            Huyefen stated that It's never justified to ever kill a single human
            being no matter what. I agree and according to my understanding this
            is also what Christ Jesus teached us. But when someone sees as his
            highest ideal&duty to defend his country and maybe sacrifice his
            life, I really don't want to condemn his actions. It is nobler to
            act bravely than to flee cowardly.

            However this has been the usual practice for a long time and
            forerunners are allways needed. In our societies there exists some
            kind of a "standard morality": If you kill "out of your own
            initiative", your in trouble, but that is also the case, when you
            refuse to kill when ordered (in war time). Many martyrs have been
            executed as well as common criminals. Things have changed though,
            when Christ is (and is becoming to a greater extent) the Lord of
            Karma.

            Christ taught us that "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit
            the earth" and "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be
            called sons of God". But from where shall these "peacemakers"
            emerge: out of the great majority of humanity, which does not know
            the significance of the Christ Event and the spiritual realities or
            somewhere else? If spiritual seekers are taking steps in the way of
            knowlegde, do we expect that "normal humanity" is taking the moral
            steps?

            Dr. Steiner has described a high initiation in the Old Covenant,
            where the initiate is "one with his nation". In this way e.g.
            Natanael is called a true israelite. I think that such an old
            initiate could easily percieve in war a high ideal, if he feels that
            his nation is in danger. But Christ brought us something more, the
            Christ-impulse is global and universal. We are all brothers and
            children of the same Father, we are all members in Christ. This new
            view is so immense, that it is hardly much realised even nowadays.

            We can also take a look at the great Krishna. In Bhagavad Gita there
            is a description before a great battle, where Arjuna is hesitant to
            kill his own relatives. Even as that "story" can be taken as a
            description of an inner battle, there is a centain "oriental" or Old
            Covenant-like feeling in the athmosphere: This physical level is
            just Maya, illusion, the true life is in the invisible worlds. What
            about it, if you kill your relatives. They will reincarnate again,
            says Krishna. After Christ Event it is this everyday life, where the
            Kingdom of God must be founded. Our body is the Temple of the Holy
            Ghost, and sinning against the Holy Ghost cannot be forgiven; there
            are allways karmic consiquences. Even the stardards given by Krishna
            are not enough, when considered in the light of the Christ impulse.

            Personally I have thought for a long time, that this "Mars-question"
            is some sort of a landmark in practical christianity: one can turn
            the sword to a cross and from this "base" go on. It is a question
            about a spiritual "fight", if we want to use such a word. This is
            described by St. Paul in the Ephesians (12): "For we wrestle not
            against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,
            against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual
            wickedness in high places".

            We can allways make observations about the circumstances in our
            time, but as students of spiritual science we can't take the norms
            of conduct directly from our society. Free moral ideas and
            intuitions are sorely needed. Spiritual seekers can be those
            forerunners, who can reject the old "jesuit-morality". Possibilities
            are nowadays greater, because Christ is the Lord of Karma. These
            problems around Mars, war, revenge and violence are also crucial,
            when we think about the shift from Mars-phase to Mercury-phase.

            Warm Regards
            Joksu
          • Hueyfen Ding
            Thank you, Bradford and Joksu, for your kind and insightful responses. i m trying to relate this America/Iraq war matter to the latest Chinese history and
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 12, 2003
              Thank you, Bradford and Joksu, for your kind and
              insightful responses.

              i'm trying to relate this America/Iraq war matter
              to the latest Chinese history and hoping to throw
              in some light from my eastern perspective.

              First of all, this US/UK preemptive strike aggression
              is certainly not a "new" phenomenon. One of the key
              motives for war has always been "economy" - oil,
              tea, silk, labor etc. Whenever you have economy
              imbalance, that can be a cause for war.

              And then, there is the social and political turmoils
              from the weaker party that could invite "outside"
              intervention as a drastic means for a quick change.
              Remember that lots of Iraques want Americans to
              stay to clear house this time, rather than being
              "abandoned" 10 years ago when American troops
              widraw after the Golf War. (It took China 100 years
              from end of Chin dynasty till now to achieve
              political, social, and economic stability.)

              i feel that there is quite an intricate psychic/
              mass conscience/unconscience play in parties of war.
              War is the menifestation of separation of
              misunderstanding and fear, and motivated by greed.
              For spiritual science, however, the war should bring
              opportunity to disrupt seperation and bring
              brotherhood
              into all humanity. i would love to see more
              brainstorming on how we may turn darkness of war
              into opportunity of light.

              Love,

              Hueyfen

              --- joksu57 <jouko.sorvali@...> wrote:
              > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
              > <holderlin66@h...> wrote:
              > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Hueyfen Ding
              >
              > > <hueyfen_ding@y...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Please allow me to express some different
              > > > point of view in regard to this war matter.
              > > >
              > > > Being a Chinese immigrant in the US, my parents
              > > > were direct victims from the Japanese invasion
              > > > during the WWII. i grew up reading the latest
              > > > hundred year Chinese history even more tragic
              > than
              > > > Irag today. Remember HongKong was only returned
              > > > to China recently after 99 years colony under
              > UK.
              > > > Ironically, lots of HK people were reluctant to
              > > > go back to China citizenship. Ironically, lots
              > of
              > > > Asian people grew up loving the western freedom
              > > > spirit more than their old tradition.
              > > >
              > > > It's never justified to ever kill a single human
              > being
              > > > no matter what. But there are so many factors
              > > > playing into any kind of phenomenom including
              > the
              > > > complicated decision of war. And if we as
              > seekers
              > > > of truth striving so vigorously to uncover the
              > wisdom
              > > > behind all these turmoils, let's seek the
              > freedom
              > > > of light in economy, social, and politics - even
              > > > in these seeming dark and foggy times.
              > > >
              > > > Best Regards,
              > > >
              > > > Hueyfen Ding
              > >
              > > Dear Hueyfen;
              > >
              > > Along with Dark Light and Radioactivty and the
              > Christ Event, the
              > > essay included was not my essay, was not the
              > opinion of Spiritual
              > > Science. I had, along with others here, tried to
              > reveal that the
              > > false celebration and the false Preemptive Strikes
              > presented as
              > New
              > > Law to the World under American leadership, has
              > brought us to a
              > > potential War with N. Korea and is not something
              > any of us, IMO,
              > feel
              > > or think is right. We agree with you, but
              > sometimes a list such as
              > > this, has very little understanding of the
              > historical realities,
              > the
              > > horror and the crisis that all humanity is in by
              > making our
              > Relgion -
              > > Nuclear Might.
              > >
              > > I personally agree with your perception and I wish
              > to tell you
              > that
              > > the article on Hiroshima was not ours but were
              > thoughts that the
              > > world around us were thinking about as the
              > Festival of the Fire
              > Death
              > > of thousands once more crossed our etheric
              > memories. All of us
              > feel
              > > the need to prevent any more aggression in nuclear
              > War on this
              > planet.
              > > If I can help in any way or others, let us know.
              > >
              > > Bradford
              >
              >
              > Joksu writes:
              >
              > Hello listmates!
              >
              > My vacation is over and I found out Andrea talking
              > about the hot
              > summer 2003. I can confirm that this was the case
              > also in Finland.
              > The temperature during three weeks was approximately
              > 30 Celsius,
              > which is extremely hot in these regions. I know
              > that it has been
              > much warmer in Middle and South Europe, but here the
              > sun just keeps
              > on shining, because the night is very short...
              > (Well, the
              > temperature is now a normal 20 C.) And then to
              > other "burning
              > issues"...
              >
              > Questions about war and peace come frequently up in
              > this list and
              > they are especially interesting now, when Mars is
              > approaching our
              > planet. I think that it is the duty of the spiritual
              > seekers to
              > present higher ideals (also ethical) than what are
              > prevailing in
              > the "normal society". In the light of the spiritual
              > science the
              > practices of every goverment seem to be inadequate
              > and this is quite
              > understandable.
              >
              > Huyefen stated that It's never justified to ever
              > kill a single human
              > being no matter what. I agree and according to my
              > understanding this
              > is also what Christ Jesus teached us. But when
              > someone sees as his
              > highest ideal&duty to defend his country and maybe
              > sacrifice his
              > life, I really don't want to condemn his actions. It
              > is nobler to
              > act bravely than to flee cowardly.
              >
              > However this has been the usual practice for a long
              > time and
              > forerunners are allways needed. In our societies
              > there exists some
              > kind of a "standard morality": If you kill "out of
              > your own
              > initiative", your in trouble, but that is also the
              > case, when you
              > refuse to kill when ordered (in war time). Many
              > martyrs have been
              > executed as well as common criminals. Things have
              > changed though,
              > when Christ is (and is becoming to a greater extent)
              > the Lord of
              > Karma.
              >
              > Christ taught us that "Blessed are the meek, for
              > they shall inherit
              > the earth" and "Blessed are the peacemakers, for
              > they shall be
              > called sons of God". But from where shall these
              > "peacemakers"
              > emerge: out of the great majority of humanity, which
              > does not know
              > the significance of the Christ Event and the
              > spiritual realities or
              > somewhere else? If spiritual seekers are taking
              > steps in the way of
              > knowlegde, do we expect that "normal humanity" is
              > taking the moral
              > steps?
              >
              > Dr. Steiner has described a high initiation in the
              > Old Covenant,
              > where the initiate is "one with his nation". In this
              > way e.g.
              > Natanael is called a true israelite. I think that
              > such an old
              > initiate could easily percieve in war a high ideal,
              > if he feels that
              > his nation is in danger. But Christ brought us
              > something more, the
              > Christ-impulse is global and universal. We are all
              > brothers and
              > children of the same Father, we are all members in
              > Christ. This new
              > view is so immense, that it is hardly much realised
              > even nowadays.
              >
              > We can also take a look at the great Krishna. In
              > Bhagavad Gita there
              > is a description before a great battle, where Arjuna
              > is hesitant to
              > kill his own relatives. Even as that "story" can be
              > taken as a
              > description of an inner battle, there is a centain
              > "oriental" or Old
              > Covenant-like feeling in the athmosphere: This
              > physical level is
              > just Maya, illusion, the true life is in the
              > invisible worlds. What
              > about it, if you kill your relatives. They will
              > reincarnate again,
              > says Krishna. After Christ Event it is this everyday
              > life, where the
              > Kingdom of God must be founded. Our body is the
              > Temple of the Holy
              > Ghost, and sinning against the Holy Ghost cannot be
              > forgiven; there
              >
              === message truncated ===


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