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Re: [anthroposophy] smoking karma

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  • Maurice McCarthy
    RS enjoyed the odd cigar. Just remember to take at least a minimal care of your body. Auntie Heather never told anyone to give up smoking - they just did not
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 1 3:46 AM
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      RS enjoyed the odd cigar. Just remember to take at least a minimal care
      of your body. Auntie Heather never told anyone to give up smoking - they
      just did not look for a cigarette when sticking to her diet. The proper
      nutrition subsumed the craving. Comfrey and mallow.

      Maurice

      daniel bernard wrote:

      > Hi to every one,
      > i'm asking an other question, now i know taht
      > this group has a large potential of wisdom et knowlege. so my question
      > is: i smoke tobaco, and i'm asking what this smoke do to my etherique
      > body and more, what can it be the karma consequence of this bad habit.
      > if anyone smoker antroposophe please
      > give me a breath of light
      > Thank
      > Daniel
    • snowplank
      Hi Maurice, I will pass this on to a friend who is trying to give up smoking rather unsuccessfully. May I ask whether you know of anywhere that one may obtain
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 5 4:55 AM
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        Hi Maurice,

        I will pass this on to a friend who is trying to give up smoking
        rather unsuccessfully. May I ask whether you know of anywhere that
        one may obtain these herbs. I ask as someone who is very new to
        natural remedies (but as you know, is keen to learn). I wouldn't know
        what a Conmfrey or Mallow looked like even though I may be scraping
        them off my feet each day!

        Many thanks.

        P

        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Maurice McCarthy
        <maurice.mccarthy@n...> wrote:
        > RS enjoyed the odd cigar. Just remember to take at least a minimal care
        > of your body. Auntie Heather never told anyone to give up smoking -
        they
        > just did not look for a cigarette when sticking to her diet. The proper
        > nutrition subsumed the craving. Comfrey and mallow.
        >
        > Maurice
        >
        > daniel bernard wrote:
        >
        > > Hi to every one,
        > > i'm asking an other question, now i know
        taht
        > > this group has a large potential of wisdom et knowlege. so my
        question
        > > is: i smoke tobaco, and i'm asking what this smoke do to my etherique
        > > body and more, what can it be the karma consequence of this bad habit.
        > > if anyone smoker antroposophe please
        > > give me a breath of light
        > > Thank
        > > Daniel
      • Maurice McCarthy
        Hi Paul and Bruce, Weight loss is probably in some way due to its cleansing properties, the healthy body being a process and not a thing. They ve been and gone
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 5 5:22 PM
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          Hi Paul and Bruce,

          Weight loss is probably in some way due to its cleansing properties, the
          healthy body being a process and not a thing.

          They've been and gone and changed the email address at work so it is now
          maurice.mccarthy@... rather than
          maurice.mccarthy@....


          Comfrey is usually looked upon as a nuisance and rooted out but the one
          place you will find it is in an allotment where they often grow it for
          fertiliser. (It was the sole ingredient of the original garden fertiliser.
          It is a big, hairy ugly beautiful plant. Sometimes I have found it in old
          church yards (they are very often a wonderful resource as they habitually
          had many kinds of growth their. Elder as the tree of life, and an ancient
          panacea. Yew as the tree of death, its leaves poisonous to cattle and
          sheep.) If you know a biodynamic gardener ask for a cutting. Henry
          Doubleday's near Birmingham are a good and long established organic
          supplier. (They have a hybrid Russian/English variety said to be very sturdy
          indeed.)

          Mallow is most often found as a road side plant. But the marsh mallow is
          equally as effective. (Modern marshmallow is utterly synthetic and takes its
          name from the plant. It makes a thick, syrupy liquid which when whisked with
          honey was used as a sweet dish.)

          The common mallow is in flower now but will be dying off in a month. The
          flower is purple, five petals with dark central "veining" on each petal. The
          leaves can resemble those of the begonia, with five rounded lobes but no
          dark ring. The leaves can be more deeply lobed and serrated on vigorous
          plants. Yet the marsh mallow has much narrower leaves. Indeed it is
          difficult to give a very accurate description without showing you one. Once
          you've seen it you'll know it. Get a book from the library for a picture.

          To Begin with most anything might help - dandelion and nettle are the two
          most important herbs in the UK. But if your friend must resort to dried
          comfrey make it very strong (it tastes foul) It is the comfrey which seems
          to replace the nourishment in this case.

          The nettle carries oxygen to the lungs (unbelievably Heather was adamant
          that oxygen is put into the body through the stomach!!) It will throw any
          phlegm off the chest and generally improve the breathing.

          You can buy Friar's Balsam from any chemist for about 60p. It is marked 'not
          for internal use'. If you take the smallest drop that you can, cut it in
          half, then soak up the 1/2 with say sugar and eat it then the balsam will go
          to the lungs and coat them in such a manner that any internal laceration can
          be felt. (I have done this to myself and it is a little unpleasant but it
          passes.) The only point is to give you a gauge of how badly the lungs are
          damaged.

          Ladle cinnamon onto your bowl of porridge in the winter to protect the chest
          from the cold.

          Hope this helps

          Maurice McCarthy
          home email <maurice.mccarthy@...>
          work email <maurice.mccarthy@...>

          -----Original Message-----
          From: snowplank [mailto:snowplank@...]
          Sent: 05 August 2003 12:56
          To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: smoking karma


          Hi Maurice,

          I will pass this on to a friend who is trying to give up smoking
          rather unsuccessfully. May I ask whether you know of anywhere that
          one may obtain these herbs. I ask as someone who is very new to
          natural remedies (but as you know, is keen to learn). I wouldn't know
          what a Comfrey or Mallow looked like even though I may be scraping
          them off my feet each day!

          Many thanks.

          P

          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Maurice McCarthy
          <maurice.mccarthy@n...> wrote:
          > RS enjoyed the odd cigar. Just remember to take at least a minimal care
          > of your body. Auntie Heather never told anyone to give up smoking -
          they
          > just did not look for a cigarette when sticking to her diet. The proper
          > nutrition subsumed the craving. Comfrey and mallow.
          >
          > Maurice
          >
          > daniel bernard wrote:
          >
          > > Hi to every one,
          > > i'm asking an other question, now i know
          taht
          > > this group has a large potential of wisdom et knowlege. so my
          question
          > > is: i smoke tobaco, and i'm asking what this smoke do to my etherique
          > > body and more, what can it be the karma consequence of this bad habit.
          > > if anyone smoker antroposophe please
          > > give me a breath of light
          > > Thank
          > > Daniel



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        • Maurice McCarthy
          ps Heather reckoned that the nettle contained Zinc. Zinc and iron generally work together in the body, I think. Maurice
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 5 5:25 PM
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            ps

            Heather reckoned that the nettle contained Zinc. Zinc and iron generally
            work together in the body, I think.

            Maurice

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            This e-mail message may contain privileged/confidential information.
            It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the indicated
            addressee (or responsible for delivery to such a person)
            you shall neither read nor retain this message, copy or distribute it to
            anyone, or use this e-mail for any other purpose. In such cases, please
            destroy the message immediately and notify the sender by return e-mail.

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          • Lee Peters
            Daniel, I cannot answer from first hand knowledge but can offer this true story Christian mystical teacher in the early part of the 20th century mentioned this
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 5 10:06 PM
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              Daniel,
               
              I cannot answer from first hand knowledge but can offer this true story Christian mystical teacher in the early part of the 20th century mentioned this event:
              When doing work in the spiritual worlds he would often meet others from his life who were connected to his particular path- Rosicrucian Christianity. He met a man in the street one day and mentioned something that happened the "night" before. The man did not understand  what the reference was to, so this teacher passed on. He was curious why this man did not remember the encounter and circumstances from the journey the night before. The next night he investigated the man's inner constitution and found that he was a heavy cigar smoker. He then described the effect of cigar and cigarettes: the use of them is deadly to the finer connections between the brain and the etheric currents associated with the brain and especially spiritual memory. Smoke "sits" and collects  and gradually creates a permanent smoke like fog or mist in the etheric body and thus forms a barrier between subtle communications while in the physical form. Incidentally, Ram Das mentioned a similar experience in his post drug teaching days as a young Yogi. After many acid hits, he turned to Yoga and meditation. During meditation practice he encountered a huge and thorny energy knot at the top of his spine leading to the skull. It was very difficult to unravel this and create a free flow of energy through the chakras and spine. In short, the effects are well know and they are not positive. Like alcohol, smoking is a deadener of sensitivity and damage the connections between the etheric body and the physical organs. Besides, it is well known that cigarettes contribute to lung cancer! 
              And this former teacher (mentioned earlier) commented that the cigar smoker may had sacrificed this life in regards to ever regaining  clairvoyance and retaining spiritual memory of work at "night" in the spiritual worlds.
               
              Lee

              daniel bernard <fantomeurbain@...> wrote:
              Hi to every one,
                                       i'm asking an other question, now i know that this group has a large potential of wisdom et knowledge. so my question is: i smoke tobacco, and i'm asking what this smoke do to my etheric body and more, what can it be the karma consequence of this bad habit.
              if anyone smoker antroposophe please
              give me a breath of light
              Thank
              Daniel


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            • snowplank
              Maurice, I said it a few weeks ago mate, but I m going to say it again: I could read this stuff all day. Thanks, Paul ... fertiliser. ... in old ...
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 6 4:31 AM
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                Maurice,

                I said it a few weeks ago mate, but I'm going to say it again: I
                could read this stuff all day.

                Thanks,

                Paul

                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Maurice McCarthy
                <Maurice.McCarthy@b...> wrote:
                > Hi Paul and Bruce,
                >
                > Weight loss is probably in some way due to its cleansing properties, the
                > healthy body being a process and not a thing.
                >
                > They've been and gone and changed the email address at work so it is now
                > maurice.mccarthy@b... rather than
                > maurice.mccarthy@b...
                >
                >
                > Comfrey is usually looked upon as a nuisance and rooted out but the one
                > place you will find it is in an allotment where they often grow it for
                > fertiliser. (It was the sole ingredient of the original garden
                fertiliser.
                > It is a big, hairy ugly beautiful plant. Sometimes I have found it
                in old
                > church yards (they are very often a wonderful resource as they
                habitually
                > had many kinds of growth their. Elder as the tree of life, and an
                ancient
                > panacea. Yew as the tree of death, its leaves poisonous to cattle and
                > sheep.) If you know a biodynamic gardener ask for a cutting. Henry
                > Doubleday's near Birmingham are a good and long established organic
                > supplier. (They have a hybrid Russian/English variety said to be
                very sturdy
                > indeed.)
                >
                > Mallow is most often found as a road side plant. But the marsh mallow is
                > equally as effective. (Modern marshmallow is utterly synthetic and
                takes its
                > name from the plant. It makes a thick, syrupy liquid which when
                whisked with
                > honey was used as a sweet dish.)
                >
                > The common mallow is in flower now but will be dying off in a month. The
                > flower is purple, five petals with dark central "veining" on each
                petal. The
                > leaves can resemble those of the begonia, with five rounded lobes but no
                > dark ring. The leaves can be more deeply lobed and serrated on vigorous
                > plants. Yet the marsh mallow has much narrower leaves. Indeed it is
                > difficult to give a very accurate description without showing you
                one. Once
                > you've seen it you'll know it. Get a book from the library for a
                picture.
                >
                > To Begin with most anything might help - dandelion and nettle are
                the two
                > most important herbs in the UK. But if your friend must resort to dried
                > comfrey make it very strong (it tastes foul) It is the comfrey which
                seems
                > to replace the nourishment in this case.
                >
                > The nettle carries oxygen to the lungs (unbelievably Heather was adamant
                > that oxygen is put into the body through the stomach!!) It will
                throw any
                > phlegm off the chest and generally improve the breathing.
                >
                > You can buy Friar's Balsam from any chemist for about 60p. It is
                marked 'not
                > for internal use'. If you take the smallest drop that you can, cut it in
                > half, then soak up the 1/2 with say sugar and eat it then the balsam
                will go
                > to the lungs and coat them in such a manner that any internal
                laceration can
                > be felt. (I have done this to myself and it is a little unpleasant
                but it
                > passes.) The only point is to give you a gauge of how badly the
                lungs are
                > damaged.
                >
                > Ladle cinnamon onto your bowl of porridge in the winter to protect
                the chest
                > from the cold.
                >
                > Hope this helps
                >
                > Maurice McCarthy
                > home email <maurice.mccarthy@n...>
                > work email <maurice.mccarthy@b...>
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: snowplank [mailto:snowplank@y...]
                > Sent: 05 August 2003 12:56
                > To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: smoking karma
                >
                >
                > Hi Maurice,
                >
                > I will pass this on to a friend who is trying to give up smoking
                > rather unsuccessfully. May I ask whether you know of anywhere that
                > one may obtain these herbs. I ask as someone who is very new to
                > natural remedies (but as you know, is keen to learn). I wouldn't know
                > what a Comfrey or Mallow looked like even though I may be scraping
                > them off my feet each day!
                >
                > Many thanks.
                >
                > P
                >
                > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Maurice McCarthy
                > <maurice.mccarthy@n...> wrote:
                > > RS enjoyed the odd cigar. Just remember to take at least a minimal
                care
                > > of your body. Auntie Heather never told anyone to give up smoking -
                > they
                > > just did not look for a cigarette when sticking to her diet. The
                proper
                > > nutrition subsumed the craving. Comfrey and mallow.
                > >
                > > Maurice
                > >
                > > daniel bernard wrote:
                > >
                > > > Hi to every one,
                > > > i'm asking an other question, now i know
                > taht
                > > > this group has a large potential of wisdom et knowlege. so my
                > question
                > > > is: i smoke tobaco, and i'm asking what this smoke do to my
                etherique
                > > > body and more, what can it be the karma consequence of this bad
                habit.
                > > > if anyone smoker antroposophe please
                > > > give me a breath of light
                > > > Thank
                > > > Daniel
                >
                >
                >
                >
                ****************************************************************************
                >
                > This e-mail message may contain privileged/confidential information.
                > It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the indicated
                > addressee (or responsible for delivery to such a person)
                > you shall neither read nor retain this message, copy or distribute it to
                > anyone, or use this e-mail for any other purpose. In such cases, please
                > destroy the message immediately and notify the sender by return e-mail.
                >
                >
                ****************************************************************************
              • snowplank
                Hi Lee, Very interesting. May I ask what the Christian mystical teacher s name was? Also, to throw another angle on to it, did Steiner (or any other reliable
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 6 4:41 AM
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                  Hi Lee,

                  Very interesting. May I ask what the Christian mystical teacher's
                  name was?

                  Also, to throw another angle on to it, did Steiner (or any other
                  reliable conscious clairvoyant) ever mention the effects of cannabis,
                  opium or other drugs that were around at the time. I mention this
                  because obviously newer, synthesised drugs such as MDMA were not
                  availble for spiritual investigation.

                  Paul


                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Lee Peters <walkker9@y...> wrote:
                  > Daniel,
                  >
                  > I cannot answer from first hand knowledge but can offer this true
                  story Christian mystical teacher in the early part of the 20th century
                  mentioned this event:
                  > When doing work in the spiritual worlds he would often meet others
                  from his life who were connected to his particular path- Rosicrucian
                  Christianity. He met a man in the street one day and mentioned
                  something that happened the "night" before. The man did not understand
                  what the reference was to, so this teacher passed on. He was curious
                  why this man did not remember the encounter and circumstances from the
                  journey the night before. The next night he investigated the man's
                  inner constitution and found that he was a heavy cigar smoker. He then
                  described the effect of cigar and cigarettes: the use of them is
                  deadly to the finer connections between the brain and the etheric
                  currents associated with the brain and especially spiritual memory.
                  Smoke "sits" and collects and gradually creates a permanent smoke
                  like fog or mist in the etheric body and thus forms a barrier between
                  subtle communications while in the physical form. Incidentally, Ram
                  Das mentioned a similar experience in his
                  > post drug teaching days as a young Yogi. After many acid hits, he
                  turned to Yoga and meditation. During meditation practice he
                  encountered a huge and thorny energy knot at the top of his spine
                  leading to the skull. It was very difficult to unravel this and create
                  a free flow of energy through the chakras and spine. In short, the
                  effects are well know and they are not positive. Like alcohol, smoking
                  is a deadener of sensitivity and damage the connections between the
                  etheric body and the physical organs. Besides, it is well known that
                  cigarettes contribute to lung cancer!
                  > And this former teacher (mentioned earlier) commented that the cigar
                  smoker may had sacrificed this life in regards to ever regaining
                  clairvoyance and retaining spiritual memory of work at "night" in the
                  spiritual worlds.
                  >
                  > Lee
                  >
                  > daniel bernard <fantomeurbain@y...> wrote:
                  > Hi to every one,
                  > i'm asking an other question, now i know
                  that this group has a large potential of wisdom et knowledge. so my
                  question is: i smoke tobacco, and i'm asking what this smoke do to my
                  etheric body and more, what can it be the karma consequence of this
                  bad habit.
                  > if anyone smoker antroposophe please
                  > give me a breath of light
                  > Thank
                  > Daniel
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
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                • 888
                  Hi Maurice, ... one ... for ... Comfrey was banned in Australia in the 70s. If I remember rightly, it is a liver poison when used in excess. So be careful how
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 6 5:06 AM
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                    Hi Maurice,
                    > Comfrey is usually looked upon as a nuisance and rooted out but the
                    one
                    > place you will find it is in an allotment where they often grow it
                    for
                    > fertiliser.

                    Comfrey was banned in Australia in the 70s. If I remember rightly, it
                    is a liver poison when used in excess. So be careful how much you
                    take!

                    We can still grow it and have it for our personal use, so all is not
                    lost.


                    > > RS enjoyed the odd cigar.

                    As discussed before on this list he also used snuff. There were a few
                    prominent students of Dr. Steiner's that smoked. The first leader of
                    the society after Dr. Steiner died was a smoker.

                    Blavatsky of course, was a heavy smoker.

                    Smoking was not prohibited in either Steiner's or Blavatsky's
                    Esoteric Section- alcohol was.

                    I'm not saying that smoking is OK for your health, it's just that it
                    doesn't appear to a problem when the student is undertaking esoteric
                    exercises.

                    Dr. Steiner did talk about the effects of nictotine. It tends to
                    speed up the thinking processes so that one is inclined to go from A
                    to Z without thoroughly considering the Bs, Cs & Qs etc. It can also
                    lead to paranoia ( which is part of the aforementioned problem).

                    There are some very interesting comments on opium in one of the
                    lectures- to workers on the Goetheanum I think.

                    Greetings,
                    Bruce
                  • Maurice McCarthy
                    About Comfrey I seem to remember a similar scare in UK many years ago. Heather scoffed at the whole idea of course, but you d guess that anyhow. One other way
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 6 11:54 AM
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                      About Comfrey

                      I seem to remember a similar scare in UK many years ago. Heather scoffed at
                      the whole idea of course, but you'd guess that anyhow. One other way of
                      using comfrey is to lay it on a cut. A very heavy, late middle-aged woman I
                      knew had cut her arm but had comfrey on the garden. Heather cleaned the
                      wound, took an entire leaf and laid it over the cut. (It prickles as the
                      hairs go into the skin but then you feel nothing.) then put a light bandage
                      over it. She gave instruction to change the leaf every 4 to 6 hours. Only
                      the veins come off, as if the whole of the rest of the leaf has been
                      absorbed into the skin. The wound healed remarkably quickly.

                      Maurice


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: 888 [mailto:fireofthe12@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 01:06 PM
                      To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: smoking karma
                      ....

                      Comfrey was banned in Australia in the 70s. If I remember rightly, it
                      is a liver poison when used in excess. So be careful how much you
                      take!

                      We can still grow it and have it for our personal use, so all is not
                      lost.
                      --------------------------

                      ****************************************************************************

                      This e-mail message may contain privileged/confidential information.
                      It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the indicated
                      addressee (or responsible for delivery to such a person)
                      you shall neither read nor retain this message, copy or distribute it to
                      anyone, or use this e-mail for any other purpose. In such cases, please
                      destroy the message immediately and notify the sender by return e-mail.

                      ****************************************************************************
                    • Maurice McCarthy
                      Bruce wrote: Comfrey was banned in Australia in the 70s. If I remember rightly, it is a liver poison when used in excess. So be careful how much you take! ...
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 7 9:03 AM
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                        Bruce wrote:

                        Comfrey was banned in Australia in the 70s. If I remember rightly, it
                        is a liver poison when used in excess. So be careful how much you
                        take!
                        ---------------------------

                        To be more explicit about Heather's answer to such things, first she'd come
                        out with something sarcastic like, "Don't eat that it might be poisonous.
                        Let's go the supermarket instead and really fill you full of filth." and
                        then she'd slowly explain ... "Have you ever wondered why no farmer eats
                        his own produce any more? They go to the supermarket like any one else. ...
                        It's because they know what chemicals they are putting on it but they can
                        pretend otherwise in the shop."

                        "I give food by the gallon. It is already well diluted and there is no way
                        you could drink enough fresh comfrey to harm yourself. The Russian peasants
                        eat it right into November as it is the last vegetable to go under in the
                        harsh winter. How did they come to their findings about comfrey? Did they
                        force feed a rabbit with it's own weight of the stuff day after day? Dig out
                        the original research methods and you'll find them lacking, I'm sure."


                        Note to Paul (snowplank)
                        You can get dried marshmallow - though as I've said before these dried
                        products are only a standby in the winter when there is nothing about. You'd
                        have to order it in bulk, at least a kilo probably, from your herbalist. It
                        is usually Hungarian.

                        Love and Best Wishes
                        Maurice


                        ****************************************************************************

                        This e-mail message may contain privileged/confidential information.
                        It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the indicated
                        addressee (or responsible for delivery to such a person)
                        you shall neither read nor retain this message, copy or distribute it to
                        anyone, or use this e-mail for any other purpose. In such cases, please
                        destroy the message immediately and notify the sender by return e-mail.

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                      • Lee Peters
                        snowplank wrote: Who was this teacher and what about comments about natural and synthesized drugs like MDA. Paul, The teacher was Max
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 8 10:57 AM
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                          snowplank <snowplank@...> wrote:
                           
                          Who was this teacher and what about comments about natural and synthesized drugs like MDA.
                           
                          Paul,
                           
                          The "teacher" was Max Heindel of the Rosicrucian Fellowship and acknowledged as a seer in the same tradition (Western Christian Esoteric) as Steiner. He is seen as an outsider by Anthroposophists I believe.  I have found his basic works and spiritual insight right on the mark (though like others from this time period, there is a Victorian ring to the style and thinking).
                           
                          Other drugs were not discussed directly but by implication with the effects of alcohol. Psychotropic drugs whether "natural" or synthesized drive the etheric and physical body apart and the soul being (who we are really) is caught in "an in between state" of consciousness that we cannot control or get out of. This condition creates a psychic space  for elementals and other psychic influences can enter our bodies and soul bodies. This is not to promote fear but just a fact. We apparently don't always sense these intrusions because they are unconscious to us (but during the high, most can feel their influence and flowing in and out of the etheric and physical body). In addition, the damage and disruption of psychotropic drugs is well known as it impacts brain chemistry, lowers glucose levels and may damage neurons in the brain. Long term use is also patently clear- damage and personal devastation. But there is little research on the metaphysical side. Heindel, when observing bar scenes clairvoyantly, would describes droves of elementals and deceased drunkards hovering and seeping up the fumes and psychic forces of the those in the bar. It was a disturbing sight. In this "loosened condition" between the physical and etheric (and astral body spreading out in a bliss state) the individual is not able to function properly between soul and body and can create a long term condition often seen with alcoholics even when they are not drunk. We can notice that when they walk, they reach out with their feet but are not coordinating the movement to the feet and ground. I am sure we have all seen this. The metaphysical reason seems to be: a semi permanent separation has occurred between the astral functions, the etheric body and the physical. The will to move is there but the connection and flow into the etheric pathways into the nervous systems to muscles is disrupted.  This is turn can lead to serious long term organic problems with the liver, kidneys, etc. because the true functions of the astral body are disabled and cannot interact properly with the organs in the body as they should. Medical science would point to organ diseases or neurological problems (which is the case) but the origins of these conditions is all related to psychic constitutional problems.
                           
                          Lee


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                        • Maurice McCarthy
                          The first time we met Heather s patient was looking askance at mallow and comfrey. She said, It s perfectly safe. You can live on mallow. You ll find it in
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 8 12:15 PM
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                            The first time we met Heather's patient was looking askance at mallow and
                            comfrey. She said, "It's perfectly safe. You can live on mallow. You'll find
                            it in Job. In fact, there's a lot of good advice on food if you look hard
                            enough."

                            King James Version: Job 30.

                            3. For want of famine they were solitary; fleeing into the wilderness in
                            former time desolate and waste.
                            4. Who cut up mallows by the bushes, and juniper roots for their meat.


                            Maurice

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                          • snowplank
                            Thanks Lee. ... synthesized drugs like MDA. ... acknowledged as a seer in the same tradition (Western Christian Esoteric) as Steiner. He is seen as an outsider
                            Message 13 of 14 , Aug 11 3:06 AM
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                              Thanks Lee.


                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Lee Peters <walkker9@y...> wrote:
                              > snowplank <snowplank@y...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Who was this teacher and what about comments about natural and
                              synthesized drugs like MDA.
                              >
                              > Paul,
                              >
                              > The "teacher" was Max Heindel of the Rosicrucian Fellowship and
                              acknowledged as a seer in the same tradition (Western Christian
                              Esoteric) as Steiner. He is seen as an outsider by Anthroposophists I
                              believe. I have found his basic works and spiritual insight right on
                              the mark (though like others from this time period, there is a
                              Victorian ring to the style and thinking).
                              >
                              > Other drugs were not discussed directly but by implication with the
                              effects of alcohol. Psychotropic drugs whether "natural" or
                              synthesized drive the etheric and physical body apart and the soul
                              being (who we are really) is caught in "an in between state" of
                              consciousness that we cannot control or get out of. This condition
                              creates a psychic space for elementals and other psychic influences
                              can enter our bodies and soul bodies. This is not to promote fear but
                              just a fact. We apparently don't always sense these intrusions because
                              they are unconscious to us (but during the high, most can feel their
                              influence and flowing in and out of the etheric and physical body). In
                              addition, the damage and disruption of psychotropic drugs is well
                              known as it impacts brain chemistry, lowers glucose levels and may
                              damage neurons in the brain. Long term use is also patently clear-
                              damage and personal devastation. But there is little research on the
                              metaphysical side. Heindel, when observing bar scenes
                              > clairvoyantly, would describes droves of elementals and deceased
                              drunkards hovering and seeping up the fumes and psychic forces of the
                              those in the bar. It was a disturbing sight. In this "loosened
                              condition" between the physical and etheric (and astral body spreading
                              out in a bliss state) the individual is not able to function properly
                              between soul and body and can create a long term condition often seen
                              with alcoholics even when they are not drunk. We can notice that when
                              they walk, they reach out with their feet but are not coordinating the
                              movement to the feet and ground. I am sure we have all seen this. The
                              metaphysical reason seems to be: a semi permanent separation has
                              occurred between the astral functions, the etheric body and the
                              physical. The will to move is there but the connection and flow into
                              the etheric pathways into the nervous systems to muscles is disrupted.
                              This is turn can lead to serious long term organic problems with the
                              liver, kidneys, etc. because the true
                              > functions of the astral body are disabled and cannot interact
                              properly with the organs in the body as they should. Medical science
                              would point to organ diseases or neurological problems (which is the
                              case) but the origins of these conditions is all related to psychic
                              constitutional problems.
                              >
                              > Lee
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ---------------------------------
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