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Thinking and Freedom

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  • Bradford Riley
    From: Evert Hoff ... Bradford comments; Gee, a discuussion getting off on the right foot, how amazing. Well, the second standpoint,
    Message 1 of 45 , Apr 2, 2003
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      From: Evert Hoff <evert.hoff@...>
      >: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: Thinking and Freedom
      >Date: 02 Apr 2003 12:37:44 +0200
      >Hi Bruce,
      >By "wonder" he could have meant two things, but both of the meanings are
      >It could either mean admiration - admiration for God's creation and how
      >God designed things to work.
      >Or it could mean saying "I wonder how this works?" Which would imply
      >that we need to remain open minded and questioning - adopt an attitude
      >of being willing to learn. This would help ensure that we really give
      >all possible alternatives consideration when we think about something.

      Bradford comments;

      Gee, a discuussion getting off on the right foot, how amazing. Well, the
      second standpoint, from an adult perspective, places one, or directs one to
      a Hamlet criss-cross of perception of motives, but not enough wonder or
      goodness to see through Right Action. Right Action must have been built on
      complex fields of human spiritual Wonder. The first part of your definition,
      Evert is where building childhood forces and maintaining them as Wonder
      purify and safeguard the condition we approach with cynacism and Columbine
      factors in our young people.

      To have an understanding that many things that adults and leaders do is not
      mere goodness or in admiration of Humanity as a creature of God or the
      discovery of the greatness of the Creation, quickly, leaves the soul caught
      in this Hamlet torment and Pilate torment of What is Truth?

      Now arrive at that moment when we are Faced with Truth. Hamlet and the
      Philsophy of Freedom as well as Pilate's distinct moment, revealed very
      clearly exactly what residue of Wonder balanced on the knife edge of the
      soul, could determine within the Political and motive infested intellects,
      exactly what was the Truth. Hamlet-Pilate-Grail King-Philosophy of Freedom
      as well as profound understanding of Childhood Education, preserves a
      residue in the soul, from being poisoned, and that, that is why Hamlet and
      the rest are poisoned by the tip of the sword and the drink because,
      Shakespeare, (not Bacon) was a Seer who understood that complex poison comes
      from unconscious motives that enter into acts of Social buidling. Some of
      these motives act as Poison to the higher Being of Man.

      Mount Pilatus in Switzerland still hears the ghost of Pilate who was caught
      in the crosshairs of the worlds philosophy of freedom.

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    • 888
      Hi Lee, ... works and the writings of proponents. The divisions of human ... Of course it s simplistic, Lee. Divisions of the human being are made for the
      Message 45 of 45 , Apr 18, 2003
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        Hi Lee,
        > This brings up something I have often encountered in Steiner's
        works and the writings of proponents. The divisions of human
        >experience into thinking, feeling and willing seems simplistic.

        Of course it's simplistic, Lee. Divisions of the human being are made
        for the purposes of scientific study. We pull apart the butterfly to
        see how it works. There are always flaws in this approach to study in
        that each part works in with the other.

        When do we ever purely think, purely feel or purely will? It is
        always a matter of cooperation between faculties.

        I do believe that viewing the human being as a lot of fragmented
        parts is fundamentally wrong to begin with- an unhealthy soul
        conception. We are (or should be) after all, a functioning whole.

        > I am driving a car without "thinking" but am perfectly aware in my
        >driving of the distance between cars, my speed, and the need to
        >maintain safe distance.

        Some have already had a go at answering your questions, so I won't go
        over that again. Steiner uses the work "thinking" in a specific way.
        What is spoken of colloquially as "thinking" is not thinking but a
        parade of ideas.

        The statement by Dr. Steiner that animals don't think is considered
        controversial by some. Steiner did admit that animals deliberate.
        Even a wasp deliberates or a beetle which really doesn't have much
        that you could call a brain, deliberates. The great wisdom that a
        beaver displays in constructing dams, lodges and canals to transport
        logs, is something that the beast "sucks in" from outside of itself-
        from the Cosmos according to Steiner. But still this must also
        require some deliberation by the animal itself.

        The difference between the animal and the human being is that the
        human reasons in full waking consciousness. The human being is not
        stuck in one area of reasoned thought that goes around and around-
        like a beaver building dams season after season. Of course,
        some_are_stuck on this merry-go-round. It really is just a matter of
        semantics though, and I quite understand if most people want to
        believe that animals think.

        So the conditions of driving a manual car and "automatically"
        changing gears, or "automatically" touch typing as you read a text
        don't really come under the heading of "thinking". In fact if you
        become conscious of your fingers moving to each key one by one you
        slow right down- so thinking about the process doesn't help.

        > Someone isin nature and has a sudden burst of energy coming to him
        >or her from the mountains around. They "feel" an energetic
        >connection to the geology around me.

        Yes there are other ways of knowing besides thinking. In fact human
        beings in the ancient past had an instinctual knowing that enabled
        them to build civilisations that rivalled own in technological

        In the realm of thinking we can become conscious, in the feeling life
        we live in a dream and in willing we are in a deep sleep. That is why
        we have the capacity for freedom in thinking. We are also vunerable
        to attack as well, something we are protected from in the feeling
        realm. This attack comes from Satan/Ahriman and its result is
        intellectuallism- divorced from real life.

        Thanx for the questions,
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