Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Islam

Expand Messages
  • foncteur
    Because violence, war and conquest is an essential part of Islam. It is necessary, to be a good muslim, to kill pagans and atheists and to humiliate the
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 2, 2003
      Because violence, war and conquest is an essential part of Islam.
      It is necessary, to be a good muslim, to kill pagans and atheists
      and to humiliate the dhimmis (jews and christians)
      War is an essential part of the islamic way to perfectness.
      Here is what I just read on a french islamic forum, it is a hadith
      of Boukhari:
      "
      Le Prophète (Que la paix et la bénédiction de Dieu sur lui), rapporte
      Anas Malek (Que Dieu l'agrée) a dit : `'Tout musulman qui perd trois
      de ses enfants n'ayant pas atteint leur majorité, Dieu le fera entrer
      au paradis grâce à Sa miséricorde accordée à eux''.




      Sahih Al-Boukhari
      CLIQUEZ: http://www.apbif.org/Pratiquer/Comportement/l'%
      E9ducation_des_enfants.htm "

      it says that Anas Malek said that the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad,
      said : "All muslim who loses three of his chidren before they are
      adults will automatically go to the paradise of Allah for that
      reason".
      Yes, this is it, you read it : even if this man is a criminal, even
      if he is Saddam Hussein, if THREE (not two, not one) of his children
      are killed before they are 18 years old, this man will go to the
      Paradise, he will have his 70 "houris" with big breasts and large
      mouth
      oh mamma mia



      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Gabriel D. Pulgar"
      <gpulgar@y...> wrote:
      > Hi,
      > My name is Gabriel. I have been following this group for a short
      > while now and I wanted to ask a question. Why do you think
      > responsible Islamic leaders don't speak out to correct the negative
      > image radicals are making for the general public? I asked myself if
      > a Christian group held women and children in front of military
      > targets, would someone speak out against it...and frankly I don't
      > know... but I hope someone would. I would like to hear from anyone,
      > using small words please- not Steiner talk- so a common guy can
      > understand.
      >
      > Thank you and bye for now.
    • DRStarman2001@aol.com
      ... responsible Islamic leaders don t speak out to correct the negative image radicals are making for the general public? I asked myself if a Christian group
      Message 2 of 29 , Apr 2, 2003
        >>>I wanted to ask a question. Why do you think
        responsible Islamic leaders don't speak out to correct the negative
        image radicals are making for the general public? I asked myself if
        a Christian group held women and children in front of military
        targets, would someone speak out against it...


        sarahwh@... writes:
        Gabriel,
        Your question comes from the 'religious/cultural relativist' stance that is popular today. Most people in the west don't know much about Islam and think it is just another religion like christianity or buddhism. 
        The simple fact is that if the religious leaders speak out against certain actions they are going against the Koran, and risk their lives because the Koran calls for islamic dissenters to be killed. While Mohammad is the prophet of the Koran, like Jesus is to the Bible, they are at opposite poles. Mohammad commited purposeful mass murders and killings of innocents - I think it went into the thousands - in the name of Allah, as well as many other awful things. He called for killing of Jews and other infidels.... Jesus and Paul of the NT did not kill or hurt anyone - in fact they called for understanding, forgiveness, kindness, love the enemy, don't throw the first stone, take the log out of one's own eye, turn the other cheek and so on. The two religions just don't compare. Also, 98% of muslims are literalists (according to the islamic studies professor at ANU); in fact it is very difficult to take islam any other way while the myth of religious/cultural/moral relativism prevails. 
        If you want to explore this question further, go to www.secularislam.org which is a site run by intellectuals of moslem birth who want to explain the truth about Islam to westerners, and about why there is so much violence, poverty, illiteracy, ignorance etc in their nations and they explain how it is tied to islamic thinking. While most moslems are in denial and will become very defensive if questioned on a deeper level, there are others who are fighting hard to Reform islamic thinking and they need our support. But the religious equivalence myth only keeps us all bogged in the quagmire of blindness and denial.
        Sarah


        *******Yes, it's the result of an unfortunate ethnocentrism, in which people raised with Western values unconsciously feel that everyone else has those same values, which is not the case. In fact, in most of the world our Western way of looking at things is the exception, not the rule; it's the result of the Christ working into European humanity and gradually raising people's souls up. That's the difference between the Judeo-Christian heritage and eastern religions.
           A few people on this list trapped in this "religious equivalence myth" will just have their anger and other irrational feelings stirred up by these exchanges, but I'm proud to see this group struggling through to a real understanding of what lies behind the events of our times. Realistic thinking is so important.
        -Starman

      • lightsearcher1
        Here please find an exultant celebration ... THE PICTURE HERE IS THAT THE WORLD-ENGULFING DARKNESS CAUSED BY ISLAM AND ITS INNATE EVIL ARE NOT REALLY INHERENT
        Message 3 of 29 , Apr 2, 2003
          Here please find an
          exultant celebration
          of the liberal mind:

          --- SRCwrote:

          > Dear Gabriel: My opinion is that
          > Islam is caught in a reactionary cycle...

          THE PICTURE HERE IS THAT THE WORLD-ENGULFING
          DARKNESS CAUSED BY ISLAM AND ITS INNATE EVIL
          ARE NOT REALLY INHERENT WITHIN THE MUSLIM PROJECT I
          TSELF...RATHER, NICE" and "GOOD" ISLAM IS A TEMPORARY
          VICTIM OF EXTERNAL BAD THINGS PERSECUTING
          THIS NICE RELIGION OF PEACE...that's what SRC
          is saying here.

          > Islam has a glorious history, but suffered a
          > grievous blow from the Mongol invasions...

          SAME SONG, DIFFERENT THEME: "POOR BABY ISLAM IS NICE,
          BUT THE POOR CHILD WAS OFFENDED FROM WITHOUT"

          > Its relationship with Europe
          > is complicated, to say the least.

          YES, JUST LIKE ANY RELATIONSHIP IS COMPLICATED BY
          THE TYRANT OVER AGAINST THE VICTIM OF HIS TYRANNICAL
          AMBITIONS

          > This is one area in which there are
          > certainly no easy, simple answers....

          HERE IT IS ! THE TYPICAL CHANT OF CANT
          FROM THE TOP OF MT. OLYMPUS:

          - "Further Research is Needed!"
          - "It's very Complicated !"
          - "Judgment should be witheld!"

          - Finally, who are we pacifist liberals to make
          a judgment based on observable facts? -- It would
          not be NICE to make the JUDGMENT forced upon us
          by the truth, so we'll just go ahead and say
          it's "CoMpLiCaTeD"

          > Major transforming forces are working through
          > all departments of global culture, ours as well
          > as theirs...

          DO YOU SEE THE LIBERAL THOUGHT PROCESS ? -- DEAL IN
          THE TRAFFIC-ING OF BLOODLESS ABSTRACTIONS - "forces" -
          SO AS TO AVOID ANY RECOGNITION and/or ASSIGNMENT
          OF INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY WHERE IT BELONGS.

          > Whatever the output will be, it will
          > depend in large part upon our input...

          OH, WAIT, MAYBE WE HERE SURELY CAN MAKE A SLIPPERY
          JUDGMENT...JUST AS LONG AS I BLAME THE WEST
          AND THE UNITED STATES FOR ISLAM'S RESPONSIBILITY -
          BECAUSE ITS REALLY * WE * IN THE WEST WHO ARE
          THE BAD GUYS AND THE "ROOT CAUSE" OF ALL ISLAM'S PROBLEMS

          > It behooves us all to be on our best behaviour...

          THE MORAL SLUDGE FLOODS FORTH AFRESH FROM THE
          LIBERAL FRONTAL LOBE -- ANOTHER JUDGMENT SLIPS
          OUT, BUT RATHER THAN HOLDING THE TOTALITARIAN
          Q'URAN AND ITS RAPISTS AND HAND-CHOPPERS AND
          GANGSTERS ACCOUNTABLE...IT'S WE..AND NOT ISLAM,
          THAT NEEDS TO TURN OVER A NEW LEAF

          . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

          Awake ! Behold ! Attend !

          The Lord of Hosts and King of Kings threatens to
          spew forth the temperature-less sludge of your brains
          from his mouth.

          . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
        • rogerwaters88
          Are there any lecture courses or other references where Steiner gives indications concerning Islam ?
          Message 4 of 29 , Oct 26, 2008
            Are there any lecture courses or other references where Steiner gives
            indications concerning Islam ?
          • Stephen Hale
            ... http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/Excursus/19110313p01.html The Moon-religion of Jahve and its Reflection in Arabism. The Penetration of the
            Message 5 of 29 , Oct 27, 2008
              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwaters88"
              <rogerwaters88@...> wrote:
              >
              > Are there any lecture courses or other references where Steiner gives
              > indications concerning Islam ?


              http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/Excursus/19110313p01.html

              "The Moon-religion of Jahve and its Reflection in Arabism. The
              Penetration of the Buddha-Mercury Stream into Rosicrucianism."

              This lecture describes the polarity of the Jahve known to the Hebrews,
              expressed in the Full Moon, and the "cult of the crescent" worshipped
              by Islam. It is well worth the study as it also includes why a Mercury
              Stream must be forged in our time to replace the old buddha stream that
              is now of the past, yet still clinged to, even with Christianity and
              its present world view.

              Steve
            • Robert Mason
              ... If you look at the links at the bottom of this page, you can see that there was a discussion of Islam a few years ago. You might find something useful in
              Message 6 of 29 , Oct 27, 2008
                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwaters88"
                <rogerwaters88@...> wrote:
                >
                > Are there any lecture courses or other references where Steiner gives
                > indications concerning Islam ?

                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwaters88"
                <rogerwaters88@...> wrote:
                >
                > Are there any lecture courses or other references where Steiner gives
                > indications concerning Islam ?

                If you look at the links at the bottom of this page,
                you can see that there was a discussion of Islam a
                few years ago. You might find something useful in
                there somewhere, and probably some more that is not
                so useful.

                Steiner did often discuss Islam, usually mixed in
                with discussion of what he called "Arabism" -- a
                related but not strictly equilavent concept. For
                instance, in *Karmic Relationships*:
                http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19240316p01.html
                et seq., he shows how "Arabism" arose, was
                repulsed by Europe, and then came into Europe
                through the reincarnation of "Arab" individualities.

                He did discuss Islam in relation to the "666"
                principle in the lectures to the Christian
                Community priests:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/36719
                (follow the links at the bottom of that page),
                but *caveat*: this text does not come from
                stenographic records but was reconstructed from
                various notes.

                RS often discussed how modern science arose through
                reincarnated and transformed "Arabism", for instance:
                "Science only reawakened during the time of the Renaissance. What
                Greece and Rome had started became Arabic wisdom; it became the spirit
                of Mohammedanism. Arabism then spread from Spain into Europe. This
                science is outstanding with regard to everything directly relating to
                the sensible-sensual world. The science that became a powerful stimulus
                for European science, that influenced Bacon and Spinoza, [See Note 7]
                arises from Spanish Arabism. It comes from Spain. However, it cannot
                rise above a pantheism that is unable to reach concrete spiritual
                beings. Arabism did not arrive at the concrete. It ascended to the
                sensible human being but what was seen beyond that was only an abstract
                divine unity. It was not known what this unity is. A poor and
                comfortable world view! There is no knowledge of the spirit if it is
                summed up in a unity. Therein lies the poverty of pantheism."
                http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19090514p01.html;mark=131,51,59#WN_mark

                He also discussed how this "Arabism" became the
                carrier of a diluted Soratic culture from the
                Academy at Jundi Sabur. This is in the cycle
                *Three Streams in Evolution*; I haven't found this
                online. Here is something that I previously
                wrote on this theme:

                >>The big event , known to history, of the Seventh Century was the rise
                of Islam. Another event, not so famous but still known to history, was
                the transfer of ancient Greek philosophy (especially Aristotle's works,
                probably including the lost work on alchemy) to the Academy of Jundi
                Sabur (near present-day Baghdad). Following the expulsion of the
                philosophers from Syrian Edessa in 489 AD and from Athens in 529 AD,
                the philosophers had found refuge in what was then the Persian Empire,
                and at that Academy they pursued their calling. Then this knowledge
                passed to the Islamic Arabs, and science of a particular bent reached a
                high development under them, while Europe was in the "Dark Ages". Only
                gradually, over many centuries, did this science pass over to Europe,
                where it developed into the modern scientific revolution. Again, the
                trend of modern science, as it has in fact developed, is Ahrimanic. The
                direct ancestor of scientific materialism was this Arabian science,
                which was itself derived from the Academy of Jundi Sabur. Thus, on the
                other side of the 333 AD midpoint from the Birth in Palestine was the
                rise of an active materialistic, anti-Christian world view in Jundi
                Sabur.
                >>Occult history (as given by Steiner) reveals how this came about:
                Sorat intended to approach physical manifestation in 666 AD at Jundi
                Sabur, and to bestow upon the philosophers there a super-human
                knowledge. This knowledge was to consist of everything that mankind,
                under the plan of the regular Gods, was to learn through its own
                efforts by the height of the present, Consciousness Soul Epoch. This
                epoch began in 1413 AD, so its midpoint will be 2493 AD. In other
                words, Sorat wanted to give to mankind, prematurely and without the
                requisite human effort and experience, the knowledge that would be
                right and healthy for mankind to achieve through work and evolution by
                the middle of the Third Millennium. The regular Gods' plan for the
                Consciousness Soul Epoch is for mankind to acquire, through self-
                education and self-discipline, the free, conscious, individualized
                human personality. If the mankind of the Seventh Century had been given
                this advanced knowledge at that immature stage of development, when
                people could not think in full consciousness, the result would have
                been disastrous. Just consider how much evil mankind has done with the
                science we have acquired up to now, at our present stage of maturity
                (or immaturity), and then try to imagine what the relatively primitive
                people of the Seventh Century would have done with the science of 2493
                AD. -- This picture is bad enough, but we need to recall Steiner's
                occult insights to begin to get the whole picture. If Sorat had
                succeeded, Men would have lost the possibility of developing our true
                nature, and would have become egotistic, animalistic automata, with no
                possibility of further development. We would have become earth-bound,
                and the earth could never then pass over to the Jupiter, Venus, and
                Vulcan stages. The normal Gods' plan would have been seriously
                hindered, and Men would have lost their due and timely opportunity to
                become Spirits of Freedom and Love. -- However, the rise of Islam
                thwarted this plan of Sorat. It is a deep, mysterious paradox that
                Islam, which was, and is, opposed to Christianity in many ways, also in
                effect worked jointly with the Christ-impulse in history, by
                blanketing, by "skimming the cream off", this Sorat-science, and by
                watering it down. Still, this science survived, and has worked on into
                the present day, but the worst was averted, for those times. The
                weakened Jundi Sabur impulse, as a distorted quasi-Aristotelianism,
                passed to the Arabs, over Africa and Spain, to France, England, and
                through the monasteries (e.g. Roger Bacon) back over to the Continent.
                The "Realism" of the Medieval scholastics (especially the revived
                Aristotelianism of Thomas Aquinas) opposed this Arabian influence,
                somewhat correctly seeing it as inimical to Christianity; but with the
                decline and decadence of Medieval Aristotelianism, and with the dawn of
                modern, anti-Aristotelian "empiricism" (e.g. Francis Bacon), the
                diluted, but still powerful, Sorat-science came to dominate world-
                culture.<<
                >>The ruling Time Spirit, since 1879 AD, is now the Sun-Archangel
                Michael (the "Countenance of Christ"). His previous rulership
                encompassed the time of Aristotle and Alexander. Michael is the
                administrator of Cosmic Intelligence, and a promoter of
                cosmopolitanism. Ideas to Plato had been living spiritual beings,
                attainable in higher vision. His pupil Aristotle put this pictorial
                wisdom into conceptual thoughts, suitable for the age of lost
                clairvoyance; Alexander carried this Greek thought-culture into the
                wider world -- both in the service of Michael. But this ancient Greek
                thinking was not experienced as coming from within the Man; it was
                rather experienced as coming, like perceptions, from the outside, a
                cosmic Pan-Intelligence. Later, this Aristotelianism was carried over
                to Jundi Sabur, and thence into Arabian/Muslim culture. Perhaps the
                most brilliant and influential proponent of this Arabian culture were
                the Caliph Haroun al Rashid and his associates, in the Eighth Century
                AD. This culture was, as indicated above, brilliant in a way, but was
                also anti-evolutionary in that it failed to appreciate the Christ-
                Impulse and was infected with the Sorat/Ahriman influence from Jundi
                Sabur. Around this time the cosmic Intelligence began to "fall to
                earth", out of the rule of Michael and in the "heads" of Men; the Pan-
                Intelligence becoming individualized, personal intelligence. This
                process was a preparation for what was to culminate after the dawn of
                the Consciousness Soul Epoch in the Fifteenth Century: that Men were to
                experience their thoughts as coming from out of themselves, as a
                personal intelligence in individual freedom. . . .<<
                In these same lectures RS said something to the effect that
                the origin of Mohammedanism was inspired by spirits that
                were opposed but still somehow connected to the Christ
                influence. I still haven't figured out exactly which spirits
                he was talking about.

                Robert M
              • carol
                Re: «...In these same lectures RS said something to the effect that the origin of Mohammedanism was inspired by spirits that were opposed but still somehow
                Message 7 of 29 , Oct 27, 2008

                   Re: «...In these same lectures RS said something to the effect that the origin of Mohammedanism was inspired by spirits that were opposed but still somehow connected to the Christ influence. I still haven't figured out exactly which spirits he was talking about....»

                  I know that the mix is obscure and complex,  but I'd like to place a couple of concepts foreward on the subject.

                  Could be,  not altogether, but perhaps a good part, Spiritual Beings overlooking folk souls. Ex. there's no close (in terms of time), direct link between 'Arabism/Mohammedism' and  the folk thread which brought Christianity forth – as a supersensible/sensible realitiy.

                  It could then be Spiritual Beings overlooking  folk souls - however,  these Spritual Beings having  distinct affiliage with other Spirit Beings ex.  in a capacity of servitude, concession.  Thus,  one would speak of Spiritual Beings of the 2nd Hierarchies in interplay with others -  and perhaps  the great difference  arises in the particularities of the  relationships/configuration with some of these ' others'.

                  In the immediacy, I certainly can see a clear distinction, on the folk soul  front, in terms of cultural impulses – and yet, this particular  folk soul (if that is indeed what one finds creating a divide) cannot not despise Christianity altogether, for Christianity refers itself to the equation of 6/7 of the Elohim – and these Spirit Beings would, by nature, ultimately refer back to this equation as well.

                  Ex. In practical, every day life, a Muslim will normally identify- with the greates of ease - with Christian ideals.

                  Thus,  a paradox arises on the subtlest of levels -  in Mohammedism, we have a forcing forward of   an outwardly  oriented vision,  all the while furnishing  a distinct yet very remote  assistance ( almost devachanic) to Christianity -  a kind of assistance which Judaism ( 's distinct configuration) cannot reach, nor furnish.  (This one,  just as Christianity has shown throughout the centuries,  must contend with a downside dimension to it's nature -  an inherent weekness  ) ...

                  That's all I can come up with for now,  carol.

                   

                   

                   

                   

                   


                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Mason" <robertsmason_99@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwaters88"
                  > rogerwaters88@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Are there any lecture courses or other references where Steiner gives
                  > > indications concerning Islam ?
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwaters88"
                  > rogerwaters88@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Are there any lecture courses or other references where Steiner gives
                  > > indications concerning Islam ?
                  >
                  > If you look at the links at the bottom of this page,
                  > you can see that there was a discussion of Islam a
                  > few years ago. You might find something useful in
                  > there somewhere, and probably some more that is not
                  > so useful.
                  >
                  > Steiner did often discuss Islam, usually mixed in
                  > with discussion of what he called "Arabism" -- a
                  > related but not strictly equilavent concept. For
                  > instance, in *Karmic Relationships*:
                  > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19240316p01.html
                  > et seq., he shows how "Arabism" arose, was
                  > repulsed by Europe, and then came into Europe
                  > through the reincarnation of "Arab" individualities.
                  >
                  > He did discuss Islam in relation to the "666"
                  > principle in the lectures to the Christian
                  > Community priests:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/36719
                  > (follow the links at the bottom of that page),
                  > but *caveat*: this text does not come from
                  > stenographic records but was reconstructed from
                  > various notes.
                  >
                  > RS often discussed how modern science arose through
                  > reincarnated and transformed "Arabism", for instance:
                  > "Science only reawakened during the time of the Renaissance. What
                  > Greece and Rome had started became Arabic wisdom; it became the spirit
                  > of Mohammedanism. Arabism then spread from Spain into Europe. This
                  > science is outstanding with regard to everything directly relating to
                  > the sensible-sensual world. The science that became a powerful stimulus
                  > for European science, that influenced Bacon and Spinoza, [See Note 7]
                  > arises from Spanish Arabism. It comes from Spain. However, it cannot
                  > rise above a pantheism that is unable to reach concrete spiritual
                  > beings. Arabism did not arrive at the concrete. It ascended to the
                  > sensible human being but what was seen beyond that was only an abstract
                  > divine unity. It was not known what this unity is. A poor and
                  > comfortable world view! There is no knowledge of the spirit if it is
                  > summed up in a unity. Therein lies the poverty of pantheism."
                  > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19090514p01.html;mark=131,51,59#WN_mark
                  >
                  > He also discussed how this "Arabism" became the
                  > carrier of a diluted Soratic culture from the
                  > Academy at Jundi Sabur. This is in the cycle
                  > *Three Streams in Evolution*; I haven't found this
                  > online. Here is something that I previously
                  > wrote on this theme:
                  >
                  > >>The big event , known to history, of the Seventh Century was the rise
                  > of Islam. Another event, not so famous but still known to history, was
                  > the transfer of ancient Greek philosophy (especially Aristotle's works,
                  > probably including the lost work on alchemy) to the Academy of Jundi
                  > Sabur (near present-day Baghdad). Following the expulsion of the
                  > philosophers from Syrian Edessa in 489 AD and from Athens in 529 AD,
                  > the philosophers had found refuge in what was then the Persian Empire,
                  > and at that Academy they pursued their calling. Then this knowledge
                  > passed to the Islamic Arabs, and science of a particular bent reached a
                  > high development under them, while Europe was in the "Dark Ages". Only
                  > gradually, over many centuries, did this science pass over to Europe,
                  > where it developed into the modern scientific revolution. Again, the
                  > trend of modern science, as it has in fact developed, is Ahrimanic. The
                  > direct ancestor of scientific materialism was this Arabian science,
                  > which was itself derived from the Academy of Jundi Sabur. Thus, on the
                  > other side of the 333 AD midpoint from the Birth in Palestine was the
                  > rise of an active materialistic, anti-Christian world view in Jundi
                  > Sabur.
                  > >>Occult history (as given by Steiner) reveals how this came about:
                  > Sorat intended to approach physical manifestation in 666 AD at Jundi
                  > Sabur, and to bestow upon the philosophers there a super-human
                  > knowledge. This knowledge was to consist of everything that mankind,
                  > under the plan of the regular Gods, was to learn through its own
                  > efforts by the height of the present, Consciousness Soul Epoch. This
                  > epoch began in 1413 AD, so its midpoint will be 2493 AD. In other
                  > words, Sorat wanted to give to mankind, prematurely and without the
                  > requisite human effort and experience, the knowledge that would be
                  > right and healthy for mankind to achieve through work and evolution by
                  > the middle of the Third Millennium. The regular Gods' plan for the
                  > Consciousness Soul Epoch is for mankind to acquire, through self-
                  > education and self-discipline, the free, conscious, individualized
                  > human personality. If the mankind of the Seventh Century had been given
                  > this advanced knowledge at that immature stage of development, when
                  > people could not think in full consciousness, the result would have
                  > been disastrous. Just consider how much evil mankind has done with the
                  > science we have acquired up to now, at our present stage of maturity
                  > (or immaturity), and then try to imagine what the relatively primitive
                  > people of the Seventh Century would have done with the science of 2493
                  > AD. -- This picture is bad enough, but we need to recall Steiner's
                  > occult insights to begin to get the whole picture. If Sorat had
                  > succeeded, Men would have lost the possibility of developing our true
                  > nature, and would have become egotistic, animalistic automata, with no
                  > possibility of further development. We would have become earth-bound,
                  > and the earth could never then pass over to the Jupiter, Venus, and
                  > Vulcan stages. The normal Gods' plan would have been seriously
                  > hindered, and Men would have lost their due and timely opportunity to
                  > become Spirits of Freedom and Love. -- However, the rise of Islam
                  > thwarted this plan of Sorat. It is a deep, mysterious paradox that
                  > Islam, which was, and is, opposed to Christianity in many ways, also in
                  > effect worked jointly with the Christ-impulse in history, by
                  > blanketing, by "skimming the cream off", this Sorat-science, and by
                  > watering it down. Still, this science survived, and has worked on into
                  > the present day, but the worst was averted, for those times. The
                  > weakened Jundi Sabur impulse, as a distorted quasi-Aristotelianism,
                  > passed to the Arabs, over Africa and Spain, to France, England, and
                  > through the monasteries (e.g. Roger Bacon) back over to the Continent.
                  > The "Realism" of the Medieval scholastics (especially the revived
                  > Aristotelianism of Thomas Aquinas) opposed this Arabian influence,
                  > somewhat correctly seeing it as inimical to Christianity; but with the
                  > decline and decadence of Medieval Aristotelianism, and with the dawn of
                  > modern, anti-Aristotelian "empiricism" (e.g. Francis Bacon), the
                  > diluted, but still powerful, Sorat-science came to dominate world-
                  > culture.<<
                  > >>The ruling Time Spirit, since 1879 AD, is now the Sun-Archangel
                  > Michael (the "Countenance of Christ"). His previous rulership
                  > encompassed the time of Aristotle and Alexander. Michael is the
                  > administrator of Cosmic Intelligence, and a promoter of
                  > cosmopolitanism. Ideas to Plato had been living spiritual beings,
                  > attainable in higher vision. His pupil Aristotle put this pictorial
                  > wisdom into conceptual thoughts, suitable for the age of lost
                  > clairvoyance; Alexander carried this Greek thought-culture into the
                  > wider world -- both in the service of Michael. But this ancient Greek
                  > thinking was not experienced as coming from within the Man; it was
                  > rather experienced as coming, like perceptions, from the outside, a
                  > cosmic Pan-Intelligence. Later, this Aristotelianism was carried over
                  > to Jundi Sabur, and thence into Arabian/Muslim culture. Perhaps the
                  > most brilliant and influential proponent of this Arabian culture were
                  > the Caliph Haroun al Rashid and his associates, in the Eighth Century
                  > AD. This culture was, as indicated above, brilliant in a way, but was
                  > also anti-evolutionary in that it failed to appreciate the Christ-
                  > Impulse and was infected with the Sorat/Ahriman influence from Jundi
                  > Sabur. Around this time the cosmic Intelligence began to "fall to
                  > earth", out of the rule of Michael and in the "heads" of Men; the Pan-
                  > Intelligence becoming individualized, personal intelligence. This
                  > process was a preparation for what was to culminate after the dawn of
                  > the Consciousness Soul Epoch in the Fifteenth Century: that Men were to
                  > experience their thoughts as coming from out of themselves, as a
                  > personal intelligence in individual freedom. . . .<<
                  > In these same lectures RS said something to the effect that
                  > the origin of Mohammedanism was inspired by spirits that
                  > were opposed but still somehow connected to the Christ
                  > influence. I still haven't figured out exactly which spirits
                  > he was talking about.
                  >
                  > Robert M
                  >

                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.