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Re: Thinking and Freedom

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  • 888
    Hi All, Actually, I placed a quote by Dr. Steiner which acknowledges the importance of right feeling before one one can become a good thinker: A man may be
    Message 1 of 45 , Apr 2, 2003
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      Hi All,
      Actually, I placed a quote by Dr. Steiner which acknowledges
      the importance of "right feeling" before one one can become a good

      "A man may be ever so clever a thinker, he may even suffer from a
      superabundance of intelligence; if he has never passed through the
      stage of wonder nothing will come of it. He will give you a cleverly
      thought-out concatenation of ideas, containing nothing that is not
      correct - but correctness does not necessary lead to reality. It is
      absolutely essential that before we begin to think, before we so much
      as begin to set our thinking in motion, we experience the condition
      of wonder. A thinking which is set in motion without the condition of
      wonder remains nothing but a mere play of thought."

      The rest of the quote is on the list homepage, it was originally
      posted on this list by Michael P.. Michael, this is the time to make
      your presence felt again (as we discussed recently).

      So there is good thinking and mediocre thinking.

    • 888
      Hi Lee, ... works and the writings of proponents. The divisions of human ... Of course it s simplistic, Lee. Divisions of the human being are made for the
      Message 45 of 45 , Apr 18, 2003
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        Hi Lee,
        > This brings up something I have often encountered in Steiner's
        works and the writings of proponents. The divisions of human
        >experience into thinking, feeling and willing seems simplistic.

        Of course it's simplistic, Lee. Divisions of the human being are made
        for the purposes of scientific study. We pull apart the butterfly to
        see how it works. There are always flaws in this approach to study in
        that each part works in with the other.

        When do we ever purely think, purely feel or purely will? It is
        always a matter of cooperation between faculties.

        I do believe that viewing the human being as a lot of fragmented
        parts is fundamentally wrong to begin with- an unhealthy soul
        conception. We are (or should be) after all, a functioning whole.

        > I am driving a car without "thinking" but am perfectly aware in my
        >driving of the distance between cars, my speed, and the need to
        >maintain safe distance.

        Some have already had a go at answering your questions, so I won't go
        over that again. Steiner uses the work "thinking" in a specific way.
        What is spoken of colloquially as "thinking" is not thinking but a
        parade of ideas.

        The statement by Dr. Steiner that animals don't think is considered
        controversial by some. Steiner did admit that animals deliberate.
        Even a wasp deliberates or a beetle which really doesn't have much
        that you could call a brain, deliberates. The great wisdom that a
        beaver displays in constructing dams, lodges and canals to transport
        logs, is something that the beast "sucks in" from outside of itself-
        from the Cosmos according to Steiner. But still this must also
        require some deliberation by the animal itself.

        The difference between the animal and the human being is that the
        human reasons in full waking consciousness. The human being is not
        stuck in one area of reasoned thought that goes around and around-
        like a beaver building dams season after season. Of course,
        some_are_stuck on this merry-go-round. It really is just a matter of
        semantics though, and I quite understand if most people want to
        believe that animals think.

        So the conditions of driving a manual car and "automatically"
        changing gears, or "automatically" touch typing as you read a text
        don't really come under the heading of "thinking". In fact if you
        become conscious of your fingers moving to each key one by one you
        slow right down- so thinking about the process doesn't help.

        > Someone isin nature and has a sudden burst of energy coming to him
        >or her from the mountains around. They "feel" an energetic
        >connection to the geology around me.

        Yes there are other ways of knowing besides thinking. In fact human
        beings in the ancient past had an instinctual knowing that enabled
        them to build civilisations that rivalled own in technological

        In the realm of thinking we can become conscious, in the feeling life
        we live in a dream and in willing we are in a deep sleep. That is why
        we have the capacity for freedom in thinking. We are also vunerable
        to attack as well, something we are protected from in the feeling
        realm. This attack comes from Satan/Ahriman and its result is
        intellectuallism- divorced from real life.

        Thanx for the questions,
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