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Re: [anthroposophy] Thinking and Freedom

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  • j a
    DRStarman2001@aol.com wrote:evert.hoff@pixie.co.za writes: The Philosophy Of Freedom has set me free - free of dogma, free of peer pressure, free of popular
    Message 1 of 45 , Apr 1, 2003

       

       DRStarman2001@... wrote:

      evert.hoff@... writes:

      The Philosophy Of Freedom has set me free - free of dogma, free of peer
      pressure, free of popular opinion, free of political correctness. It has
      taught me that all I need to do in order to be free, is to think.
      However, others seem to be not so fortunate - they seem to be haunted by
      their emotions. The only way for them to feel free is by ignoring that
      which they don't feel sympathy toward.
      It is so nice to be free, to know that there is something stable and
      constant in this world, to know that you can find truth - by just
      thinking. I wish upon each person the opportunity to experience this
      freedom.

      Evert:

      I would say you may be mistaken here about the nature of thinking and feeling. The insight may be philosophically valid for you but human "perception" and cognition is far more complex than simply calling one side thinking and the other feeling.Tthis discounting of "feeling" precludes the rich nature of "sensory cognition or knowing"which precedes conceptual thinking and verbalization. If one walks into a room and shakes hands with someone and  "feels" something strange about his person, this can be and often is a "perceptual feeling" and "psychic impression" that is based in the soul and feelings of each of us. We use this all the time in daily life.  We might have a "feeling" about making a right turn and lo and behold, someone runs a red light and we would have been hit. To discount "feelings" in their fullness is a limited view of life and human nature. We can analyze later what this means but direct and immediate responses to the world and people is a form of intelligence just like "thinking". Though the Philosophy of Freedom deals with the philosophic and spiritual side of human consciousness and freedom, placing thesis this upon the full nature of human experience is simplistic in my opinion.




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    • 888
      Hi Lee, ... works and the writings of proponents. The divisions of human ... Of course it s simplistic, Lee. Divisions of the human being are made for the
      Message 45 of 45 , Apr 18, 2003
        Hi Lee,
        > This brings up something I have often encountered in Steiner's
        works and the writings of proponents. The divisions of human
        >experience into thinking, feeling and willing seems simplistic.

        Of course it's simplistic, Lee. Divisions of the human being are made
        for the purposes of scientific study. We pull apart the butterfly to
        see how it works. There are always flaws in this approach to study in
        that each part works in with the other.

        When do we ever purely think, purely feel or purely will? It is
        always a matter of cooperation between faculties.

        I do believe that viewing the human being as a lot of fragmented
        parts is fundamentally wrong to begin with- an unhealthy soul
        conception. We are (or should be) after all, a functioning whole.


        > I am driving a car without "thinking" but am perfectly aware in my
        >driving of the distance between cars, my speed, and the need to
        >maintain safe distance.

        Some have already had a go at answering your questions, so I won't go
        over that again. Steiner uses the work "thinking" in a specific way.
        What is spoken of colloquially as "thinking" is not thinking but a
        parade of ideas.

        The statement by Dr. Steiner that animals don't think is considered
        controversial by some. Steiner did admit that animals deliberate.
        Even a wasp deliberates or a beetle which really doesn't have much
        that you could call a brain, deliberates. The great wisdom that a
        beaver displays in constructing dams, lodges and canals to transport
        logs, is something that the beast "sucks in" from outside of itself-
        from the Cosmos according to Steiner. But still this must also
        require some deliberation by the animal itself.

        The difference between the animal and the human being is that the
        human reasons in full waking consciousness. The human being is not
        stuck in one area of reasoned thought that goes around and around-
        like a beaver building dams season after season. Of course,
        some_are_stuck on this merry-go-round. It really is just a matter of
        semantics though, and I quite understand if most people want to
        believe that animals think.

        So the conditions of driving a manual car and "automatically"
        changing gears, or "automatically" touch typing as you read a text
        don't really come under the heading of "thinking". In fact if you
        become conscious of your fingers moving to each key one by one you
        slow right down- so thinking about the process doesn't help.

        > Someone isin nature and has a sudden burst of energy coming to him
        >or her from the mountains around. They "feel" an energetic
        >connection to the geology around me.

        Yes there are other ways of knowing besides thinking. In fact human
        beings in the ancient past had an instinctual knowing that enabled
        them to build civilisations that rivalled own in technological
        marvels.

        In the realm of thinking we can become conscious, in the feeling life
        we live in a dream and in willing we are in a deep sleep. That is why
        we have the capacity for freedom in thinking. We are also vunerable
        to attack as well, something we are protected from in the feeling
        realm. This attack comes from Satan/Ahriman and its result is
        intellectuallism- divorced from real life.

        Thanx for the questions,
        Bruce
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