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beatification of Juan Diego-Re: Chiapas, The Revolution Different!

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  • elaineupton2001
    Hello Bradford and all interested, There is much in your post, dear Bradford, that is well worth discussing and taking to heart. Indeed, we make (the Church
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 6, 2003
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      Hello Bradford and all interested,

      There is much in your post, dear Bradford, that is well worth
      discussing and taking to heart. Indeed, we make (the Church makes)
      problematic beatifications and we have (in most cases) a limited
      understanding of the Spirit Self. The story of Juan Diego and his
      visitation from the Virgin of Guadelupe is a rich story, however,
      beatification or not...More needs to be looked at here, I'd say.

      Blessings,
      elaine
    • elaineupton2001
      Hello once again,Bradford and all interested, Sorry that I was a bit rushed in writing my last note to you, on your rich post on the movie star cult,the
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 6, 2003
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        Hello once again,Bradford and all interested,

        Sorry that I was a bit rushed in writing my last note to you, on your
        rich post on the movie star cult,the Catholic Church and its saint
        and false beatifications in,especially, the region of Latin
        America,things that show a failure, I believe you are saying, to
        understand the Spirit Self and the relationship of Manes and Christ.ç

        In writing, you mention, among other examples,the beatification of
        the peasant who met the Lady of Guadelupe (the peasant´s Spanish name
        is Juan Diego, though that is not his native name). In my last note,I
        replied to that part of your post (see my last reply just below
        here), and I will now add a little to this(and relate it to my
        original post on this thread:the nature of the revolution of the
        Zapatistas in Chiapas, a state in Mexico). First, from my last post:

        ,
        >
        > There is much in your post, dear Bradford, that is well worth
        > discussing and taking to heart. Indeed, we make (the Church makes)
        > problematic beatifications and we have (in most cases) a limited
        > understanding of the Spirit Self. The story of Juan Diego and his
        > visitation from the Virgin of Guadelupe is a rich story, however,
        > beatification or not...More needs to be looked at here, I'd say.
        *******************************

        OK, to continue a little:

        I would not go so far as to claim that¨"Juan Diego",the Mexican
        peasant who met the Lady of Guadelupe, attained Spirit Self. Neither
        would I go so far as to claim that the Zapatistas--Subcomandante
        Marcos or others, have attained Spirit SElf.The intent of my original
        post was not to claim such of the Zapatistas, but rather to suggest
        and to open up the wider view that there is something very special
        going on here in the realizations of certain Zapatistas,and that it
        is the burgeoning of an attempt to reach beyond limits of group soul,
        intellectual soul,and even to realize beyond Consciousness Soul, not
        that they have fully achieved that realization.We (at least many of
        us, including perhaps the Zapatistas or Juan Deigo) come to
        realizations by degrees. Not everyone has the Paul on the Road to
        Damascus kind of epiphany all at once. Some experiences are like full
        grown blossoms, and others are buddings on the way to enlightenment
        and realization of Spirit Self.

        And yes, I agree that much in the Catholic Church is
        problematic,including the manner or awarding sainthood. As for the
        Pope and Tomberg and their turning from Steiner, I will leave that to
        others to discuss.

        Blessings,
        elaine
      • S. Groth
        Facing the ultimative either or presented civilians around the world, from one or another warlord, some just petty blackmailers, other advanced imperial
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 10, 2003
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          Facing the ultimative "either or" presented civilians around the
          world, from one or another warlord, some just petty blackmailers,
          other advanced imperial caesars, some barbarians other apparently
          highly civilised - but all criminals leaving crippled civilians
          slaugthered as a trail behind them..... I declare my freedom to find
          my say of (neither nor) "NO!", but also (both and) "YES!"

          "Another world is possible. where the choice is between war or peace,
          between memory or oblivion, between hope or despair, between the grey
          on one side and the whoel rainbow on the other side. One world where
          many worlds can excist. It is possible for an "YES!" an incomplete
          unfinished "YES!" to be born out of a "NO!".
          An "YES!" that gives humanity hope back, so that we day by day kan
          rebuild the complex bridge that connects thinking and feeling" ....
          Marcos, from the mountains in Southeast
          Mexico, 1999

          "The past casting shadows, and the future carrying seeds for a new
          reality, meet in the human being, and this meeting is the real life of
          contemporary man" R.Steiner
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