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Re: Chiapas, The Revolution Different!

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  • ashley_soren <Sgroth@efn.org>
    ... Cool :-) On the THREEFOLDING list we have just made a revolutionary move from Yahoogroups, to a non-commercial listserver - which have many of the
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 2 1:01 AM
      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Tonya Columba <dcfairy5@y...> wrote:
      > --- Hi,
      > I really enjoyed reading this.
      > I love revoulutionary material.
      > Thanks,
      > Tonya

      Cool :-)
      On the THREEFOLDING list we have just made a revolutionary move from
      Yahoogroups, to a non-commercial listserver - which have many of the
      advantages found at Yahoo, without throwing advertising in our face
      all the time...

      So for those interested in a revolutionary radical middle - as
      alternative to left-right extremism or grey compromising centralism -

      Here is an invitation to join the discussion group
      About the metapolitical view of the threefold social organism

      First presented by Rudolf Steiner

      "It is in our minds free from economical calculations and political
      powergames we find the inspiration, the visions and the strength to
      meet the problems in a creative sustaining way." Sören Groth

      Subscribe: threefolding-subscribe@...
      or go to the webpage

      Sören Groth sgroth@...

      " The September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in New York and the Battle
      of Genoa in July 2001 in Italy captures the present power
      configuration of the world. Three worldviews are struggling for
      control over the future of the planet. These three worldviews are
      characterized and labeled, broadly, as Jihad, McWorld, and Civitas.
      McWorld is the world of the dominant materialistic modernity that
      governs the world. Jihad is the fundamentalist response of tradition,
      not just Islam, to McWorld. The world of Civitas is the world of
      post-materialism seeking a more spiritual approach, different from
      McWorld and Jihad, to world challenges.

      An elite form of globalization associated with McWorld has taken
      over the planet with disastrous consequences. This elite form of
      globalization is forcing humanity to ask fundamental questions about
      the nature and meaning of human existence, about societies and
      civilizations, and about the nature of nature and humanity?s
      relationship with it. The questions of McWorld cannot be answered from
      the consciousness of McWorld nor Jihad. It requires a post-material
      consciousness, perspective and action to address the problems spawned
      by elite globalization today.

      Fortunately, there is a massive awakening throughout the world
      today in connection with a more spiritual approach and response to the
      challenge of McWorld." Nicanor Perlas
    • holderlin66
      ... period ... arrived ... violence, ... marvelous ... style ... their ... a ... of ... that ... Revolution. ... put ... do ... Let Me Add to this wonderful
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 5 9:27 AM
        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "elaineupton2001
        <elaineupton@h...>" <elaineupton@h...> wrote:
        > Hello all,
        > The Revolution in Chiapas is a different, very unique, kind of
        > revolution, and has much to teach, I believe, about the workings of
        > the Group Soul, the Intellectual Soul, the Consciousness Soul, and
        > beyond to Spirit Self...
        > >
        > In any case, the Zapatistas, a small ragtag army, guerilla, in the
        > mountains of Lacondon, at first took up arms, but after a long
        > of negotiations with the (often corrupt) Mexican government,
        > at a truce. Since then, the Zapatistas have a policy of non-
        > and some of the leaders have a practice of meditative, almost
        > monastic silence. Yet, they do have a powerful speaker and
        > writer--the mysterious one known as Subcomandante Marcos, who says
        > repeatedly that through his voice is the voice of the Zapatistas.
        > The Zapatistas have gone beyond Marxism, beyond the Che Guevara
        > revolution, and are seeking to remain beyond violence, so that
        > army is a non-violent army of peace and renewal. They have come to
        > place of deep spiritual communion with their land, with their
        > language, their stories of creation and destiny (the Mayan stories
        > their region). Their work is work in revitalizing these stories,
        > they live in their work with each other and with the land and with
        > all peoples who will join them in this spirit of this new
        > Here is a poem by Comandante David and Subcomandante Marcos (in
        > Spanish and in English). This was written years ago, before they
        > violence aside, but already the spirit of non-violence emerges as
        > many marvelous things in this poem:
        > Hermanos y hermanas de Mexico y el Mundo:
        > En este el ano siete de la guerra contra el ovido, repetimos lo
        > que somos.
        > Somos viento, nosotros. No el pecho que nos sopla.
        > Somos palabra, nosotros. No los labios que nos hablan.
        > Somos paso, nosotros. No elpie que nos anda.
        > Somos latido, nosotros. No el corazon que lo pulsa.
        > Somos puente, nosotros. No los suelos que se unen.
        > Somos camino, nosotros. No el punto de llegada ni de partida.
        > Somos lugar, nosotros. No quien lo ocupa.
        > No existimos, nosotros. Solo somos.
        > Wiete veces somos. Nostros siete veces
        > Nosotros, el espejo repetido.
        > El reflejo, nsostros
        > Lo mano que apenas abre la ventana, nosotros
        > Nosotros, el mundo llamado a la puerta del manana.
        > Indigenous brother and sister of Mexico and the world:
        > In this, the seventh year of the war against oblivion, we repeat
        > who we are.
        > We are wind, we are. Not the breast that breathes us.
        > We are word, we are Not the lips which speak us.
        > We are steps, we are. Not the foot that moves us.
        > We are heartbeat, we are. Not the heart that pulses.
        > We are a bridge, we are. Not the lands that form a union.
        > We are road, we are. Not the point of arrival or departure.
        > We are place, we are. Not those who occupy that place.
        > We do not exist, we are. We only are.
        > SEven times we are. Seven times we are.
        > We are the reflection repeated.
        > The reflection, we are
        > The hand that just opened the window, we are.
        > We are the timid knock at the door of tomorrow.
        > *****

        Let Me Add to this wonderful connection Elaine:

        Studies in Manas and the Spirit Self:

        When facing the occult perception of who has attained Manas or Spirit
        Self under legitimate spiritual cognition we are faced with a
        qualitative cultural delusions regarding the actual abilities of the
        Church to recognize true Halos, or transformed astral bodies in human
        beings. Technically in the religious sphere this amounts to
        Canonization and Beatification.

        Recently the Pope bestowed beatification on two Zapotec Indians who
        were martyred along with many others. The story of their martyrdom
        and appeasement of the politics of Mexico has very little to do with
        the truth of a purified astral body. A saint or bestowing sainthood
        on certain individuals has fallen well below the realm of occult
        perception as religion and the science of man.

        Now we might say that Parsifal had a purified astral body. However if
        I take the Knighting of Paul McCartney or Elton John as something
        that denotes a spiritual truth and the bestowing of the gift on them
        has deep implications into the occult foundations of the world, I
        would be wrong.

        In the case of Parsifal and his meeting with the Christ Being as the
        raised "Youth of Nain" we have a stream of spiritual life through the
        Grail that maintains occult truth to it. The continued revelation of
        Manes and Manicheanism; his opposition to the school of Gondi Shapur;
        or how Manicheanism impacted St. Augustine retains something of
        occult authenticity. We are still on firm ground and can arrive at
        the mystery of the Purified Astral body as that which has survived
        the impulses of adolescence, puberty, sexuality, and emotional
        dysfunction and raised the Sentient Soul to the lofty Halo that has
        been painted around the heads of Saints.

        In the "myth" of Parsifal we are allowed to follow the development of
        an individual who had been raised and touched by the Christ himself.
        We know that a `son of the widow' takes us back to the sentient
        condition of the Egyptian era and that the Youth of Nain was a "son
        of a widow", namely Isis. In the story of Parisfal we see his
        youthful mistakes as a teaching to Waldorf students in the upper
        grades. We also see how he arrives at the compassion and depth of
        soul forces to attain the inner question, the quest that brings
        Parsifal past Kundry – the fallen astral forces- and by recognition
        and compassion arrives at the higher mission of the Angelic
        transformation of the astral body into Spirit-Self. In those three
        drops of blood and the meeting with Gurnemanz the hermit, Parsifal
        arrives at the calm state where Angelic-Dove brotherhood is achieved.

        This Halo represents a Beatification of the astral body as an occult
        perception. The story of the two Mexican Indians who were bestowed
        this recognition of the purification of the astral body by the Pope's
        recent visit to Mexico has the something of the same value as the
        Queen Knighting Elton John. IMO

        I wish to draw attention to our reductionism of what is true and
        what is mere lip service or political gaming. While the method of
        death of the two martyrs recalls the ancient religious practice of
        the Aztecs, in that, their martyrdom and Beatification rests on the
        fact that they were hung for snitching on a pagan ritual. Their
        bodies were taken down and an angry crowd realized suddenly that the
        two were still alive. They cut out their hearts and threw them to the
        dogs. The dogs would not eat them (which shows a rather higher astral
        lawfulness in dogs then in men) and this miracle, that the hearts of
        the men were not eaten by the dogs is the source of why the Church
        considers these two souls worthy of Beatification.

        Their deaths resemble Martyrs deaths and their deaths resemble the
        type of horrific death suffered by Manes at Gondi Shapur and other
        deaths brought about by the self same church which now offers
        Beautification. But we can recall the Wars of Vlad the Impaler and
        the thousands of unnamed Christians who lined the roads of Rome as
        the horror of Crucifixion really took off as a way to straighten out
        the wayward souls who refused to consider Rome and Roman rule above


        "SAN FRANCISCO CAJONOS, Mexico · The two Zapotec Indians died the
        deaths of religious martyrs: Fellow villagers "dragged them, hung
        them and finally decapitated them, cut open their sides to pull out
        their hearts and gave them to the dogs," the Roman Catholic Church

        Pope John Paul II plans to beatify the men -- Juan Bautista and
        Jacinto de los Angeles -- today in Mexico City as part of a trip
        reaching out to Indians in the Americas, who have been the most
        receptive to Protestant conversion in recent years.

        "Beatification is the last formal step before possible sainthood, and
        the ceremony comes a day after the pope canonized the first Indian

        But the details of the men's lives and deaths make some people
        uneasy. They were inspectors working for the Spanish colonial church -
        - essentially informers helping to stamp out non-Christian practices
        rooted in native cultures.

        In September 1700, they told authorities of an Indian religious
        ceremony. Colonial police raided the rite, and villagers enraged by
        the betrayal attacked the informers.

        A church biography omits the punishment for the attackers: Christian
        officials decapitated and quartered 15 men and staked their body
        parts by the roadside as a warning.

        The case brings reminders that the triumph of Christianity in Latin
        America was sometimes a violent process. For some, the martyrs' role
        in helping colonial officials exterminate local practices clashes
        with the church's message that "Indian peoples deserve recognition of
        their way of being and of their autonomy."

        Bradford comments;

        How do we begin to see through the fabric of the real and unreal?
        Certainly most of us cannot yet grasp how the Ego Sheath is embedded
        for our times in the sentient soul, intellectual soul and
        consciousness soul capacities. Much has been written that indicates
        why we are stuck in the lies and delusions of our self-made,
        stubborn, intellectual soul framework with its political Wag the Dawg
        ideologies. Yet somehow we are to unfold an understanding of what the
        Spirit Self means. Had Mother Theresa attained the Spirit Self? To
        this we might compare Gandhi as well. Who bestows on Gandhi a
        transformed astral body into a beautification or purification into
        the Spirit Self? I do if the Pope doesn't. If the Catholic church
        does not recognize anyone who transforms their astral body into what
        the Angels require of brotherhood on earth, then the Church is
        following a path of hypocrisy. Do our current leaders really have the
        spiritual capacity to actually see these things? The answer of course
        is no they do not! Are most of us hypocrites? Absolutely

        The Pope was an Anthroposophical actor and attended study groups
        where Rudolf Steiner was mentioned frequently. The Popeis a normal
        bloke, a Polish guy who took the path that laid the Peter Stone, the
        Petra mantle, on his shoulders. What about Tomberg? Tomberg entered
        the Peter circle of the three circles of John/Peter and Paul.. Both
        Tomberg and the Pope entered into the Peter mantle of faith based
        knowledge after meeting Rudolf Steiner. Does Anthroposophy have a
        clue to the reasons for Tomberg's decision? You tell me.

        What we have are very superficial gobs of people who follow along
        without the slightest understanding that Halos of saints and
        purification of the Astral body is a normal path of spiritual
        development. The 99% majority of mankind is clueless as to how the
        astral body functions and what it might change into. Now the real
        kicker is that when The Sun Being Christ united with
        Zarathustra/Jesus… (Oh, don't even ask me to explain this mighty
        chunk of wisdom to the Catholics.) He, the Christ, as an Elohim was
        able to penetrate as far as the Spirit Self of Jesus. Between Buddha,
        Zarathustra and Krishna, the aura of the Sun-Spirit, the Christ
        appears at the Transfiguration speaking to Moses and Elijah in His
        mighty Manas body of light. But who is asleep below unable to rise to
        this Spirit-Self condition? You tell me.

        It takes advancement of soul to recognize, transform and change the
        astral body into a higher member of the human I AM, but it took an
        enormous effort from East and West to unite and bring about the
        shattering event of Golgotha and the Transfiguration and
        Resurrection. This in pouring force of the gods Atma body is the
        actual substance that brought about the higher genetic/spiritual
        equation of the Resurrection Body, the Phantom. Certainly Tomberg
        recognized these facts. Certainly the anthro-actor Pope does not. You
        tell me.

        But we can detect again in these most recent events a penetration by
        the Catholic Church into the Aztec/Mexican mysteries that attempt to
        bring band aids and lip service to forces that were betrayed long ago
        by the quest for Gold and the Avarice of Philip the Fair. This
        Beautification along with Canonization of someone who saw the Virgin
        of Guadalupe are types of perceptions that remain riddled with false
        understanding around the Spirit of Man and the Christ event. Here
        also the rhythm that binds the Catholic Church to its scandals, the
        Political betrayal of human rights and the infection of Avarice find
        themselves sputtering in the time line of history that has had
        devastating results through 666-1332-1998. The ripple of these events
        did not stop because these dates were indicated as benchmark
        culminating factors. The Babylonian Captivity of the Church and the
        martyring of Spiritually fine human Beings continued once these
        concrete betrayals were accomplished.

        Current events are not so dry and impossible to see through as it
        appears at first glance at the news. Common sense in the highest
        meaning of the Michael School should be maintained even when it comes
        to looking at our own Anthroposophical Community. That which passes
        for interest in Anthroposophy does not immediately make for active
        understanding of Michael Imaginations in our current time frame. IMO

      • elaineupton2001
        Hello Bradford and all interested, There is much in your post, dear Bradford, that is well worth discussing and taking to heart. Indeed, we make (the Church
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 6 1:01 PM
          Hello Bradford and all interested,

          There is much in your post, dear Bradford, that is well worth
          discussing and taking to heart. Indeed, we make (the Church makes)
          problematic beatifications and we have (in most cases) a limited
          understanding of the Spirit Self. The story of Juan Diego and his
          visitation from the Virgin of Guadelupe is a rich story, however,
          beatification or not...More needs to be looked at here, I'd say.

        • elaineupton2001
          Hello once again,Bradford and all interested, Sorry that I was a bit rushed in writing my last note to you, on your rich post on the movie star cult,the
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 6 1:22 PM
            Hello once again,Bradford and all interested,

            Sorry that I was a bit rushed in writing my last note to you, on your
            rich post on the movie star cult,the Catholic Church and its saint
            and false beatifications in,especially, the region of Latin
            America,things that show a failure, I believe you are saying, to
            understand the Spirit Self and the relationship of Manes and Christ.ç

            In writing, you mention, among other examples,the beatification of
            the peasant who met the Lady of Guadelupe (the peasant´s Spanish name
            is Juan Diego, though that is not his native name). In my last note,I
            replied to that part of your post (see my last reply just below
            here), and I will now add a little to this(and relate it to my
            original post on this thread:the nature of the revolution of the
            Zapatistas in Chiapas, a state in Mexico). First, from my last post:

            > There is much in your post, dear Bradford, that is well worth
            > discussing and taking to heart. Indeed, we make (the Church makes)
            > problematic beatifications and we have (in most cases) a limited
            > understanding of the Spirit Self. The story of Juan Diego and his
            > visitation from the Virgin of Guadelupe is a rich story, however,
            > beatification or not...More needs to be looked at here, I'd say.

            OK, to continue a little:

            I would not go so far as to claim that¨"Juan Diego",the Mexican
            peasant who met the Lady of Guadelupe, attained Spirit Self. Neither
            would I go so far as to claim that the Zapatistas--Subcomandante
            Marcos or others, have attained Spirit SElf.The intent of my original
            post was not to claim such of the Zapatistas, but rather to suggest
            and to open up the wider view that there is something very special
            going on here in the realizations of certain Zapatistas,and that it
            is the burgeoning of an attempt to reach beyond limits of group soul,
            intellectual soul,and even to realize beyond Consciousness Soul, not
            that they have fully achieved that realization.We (at least many of
            us, including perhaps the Zapatistas or Juan Deigo) come to
            realizations by degrees. Not everyone has the Paul on the Road to
            Damascus kind of epiphany all at once. Some experiences are like full
            grown blossoms, and others are buddings on the way to enlightenment
            and realization of Spirit Self.

            And yes, I agree that much in the Catholic Church is
            problematic,including the manner or awarding sainthood. As for the
            Pope and Tomberg and their turning from Steiner, I will leave that to
            others to discuss.

          • S. Groth
            Facing the ultimative either or presented civilians around the world, from one or another warlord, some just petty blackmailers, other advanced imperial
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 10 6:47 AM
              Facing the ultimative "either or" presented civilians around the
              world, from one or another warlord, some just petty blackmailers,
              other advanced imperial caesars, some barbarians other apparently
              highly civilised - but all criminals leaving crippled civilians
              slaugthered as a trail behind them..... I declare my freedom to find
              my say of (neither nor) "NO!", but also (both and) "YES!"

              "Another world is possible. where the choice is between war or peace,
              between memory or oblivion, between hope or despair, between the grey
              on one side and the whoel rainbow on the other side. One world where
              many worlds can excist. It is possible for an "YES!" an incomplete
              unfinished "YES!" to be born out of a "NO!".
              An "YES!" that gives humanity hope back, so that we day by day kan
              rebuild the complex bridge that connects thinking and feeling" ....
              Marcos, from the mountains in Southeast
              Mexico, 1999

              "The past casting shadows, and the future carrying seeds for a new
              reality, meet in the human being, and this meeting is the real life of
              contemporary man" R.Steiner
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