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Yes!-Re: Chiapas, The Revolution Different!

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  • elaineupton2001 <elaineupton@hotmail.com>
    Yes, dear Stephen, You can copy it. Anything for the people of Chiapas (and for us all who seek a new world and a new level of soul development)! I think think
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 1, 2003
      Yes, dear Stephen,

      You can copy it. Anything for the people of Chiapas (and for us all
      who seek a new world and a new level of soul development)!

      I think think there is some relationship here to your searches and
      discoveries in the realm of Mesoamerican mysteries. The Zapatistas
      are of Mayan descent and Subcomandante Marcos tells Mayan stories...


      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, SRC <mozartg@y...> wrote:
      > Dear Elaine:
      > Great! Can I copy this into my Newsletter?
      > Stephen
      > --- "elaineupton2001 <elaineupton@h...>" <elaineupton@h...>
      > wrote:
      > > Hello all,
      > >
      > > The Revolution in Chiapas is a different....
      > =====
      > "The only thing I regret about my past is the length of it. If I
      had to live my life again I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner." -
      Tallulah Bankhead
      > "Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient
      capital to form a corporation." - Clarence Darrow
      > "Those who cannot hear the music think that the dancer is mad." -
      > "The victim who is able to articulate the situation of the victim
      has ceased to be a victim ? he or she has become a threat." - James
      > __________________________________________________
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
      > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
    • ashley_soren <Sgroth@efn.org>
      ... Cool :-) On the THREEFOLDING list we have just made a revolutionary move from Yahoogroups, to a non-commercial listserver - which have many of the
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 2, 2003
        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Tonya Columba <dcfairy5@y...> wrote:
        > --- Hi,
        > I really enjoyed reading this.
        > I love revoulutionary material.
        > Thanks,
        > Tonya

        Cool :-)
        On the THREEFOLDING list we have just made a revolutionary move from
        Yahoogroups, to a non-commercial listserver - which have many of the
        advantages found at Yahoo, without throwing advertising in our face
        all the time...

        So for those interested in a revolutionary radical middle - as
        alternative to left-right extremism or grey compromising centralism -

        Here is an invitation to join the discussion group
        About the metapolitical view of the threefold social organism

        First presented by Rudolf Steiner

        "It is in our minds free from economical calculations and political
        powergames we find the inspiration, the visions and the strength to
        meet the problems in a creative sustaining way." Sören Groth

        Subscribe: threefolding-subscribe@...
        or go to the webpage

        Sören Groth sgroth@...

        " The September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in New York and the Battle
        of Genoa in July 2001 in Italy captures the present power
        configuration of the world. Three worldviews are struggling for
        control over the future of the planet. These three worldviews are
        characterized and labeled, broadly, as Jihad, McWorld, and Civitas.
        McWorld is the world of the dominant materialistic modernity that
        governs the world. Jihad is the fundamentalist response of tradition,
        not just Islam, to McWorld. The world of Civitas is the world of
        post-materialism seeking a more spiritual approach, different from
        McWorld and Jihad, to world challenges.

        An elite form of globalization associated with McWorld has taken
        over the planet with disastrous consequences. This elite form of
        globalization is forcing humanity to ask fundamental questions about
        the nature and meaning of human existence, about societies and
        civilizations, and about the nature of nature and humanity?s
        relationship with it. The questions of McWorld cannot be answered from
        the consciousness of McWorld nor Jihad. It requires a post-material
        consciousness, perspective and action to address the problems spawned
        by elite globalization today.

        Fortunately, there is a massive awakening throughout the world
        today in connection with a more spiritual approach and response to the
        challenge of McWorld." Nicanor Perlas
      • holderlin66
        ... period ... arrived ... violence, ... marvelous ... style ... their ... a ... of ... that ... Revolution. ... put ... do ... Let Me Add to this wonderful
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 5, 2003
          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "elaineupton2001
          <elaineupton@h...>" <elaineupton@h...> wrote:
          > Hello all,
          > The Revolution in Chiapas is a different, very unique, kind of
          > revolution, and has much to teach, I believe, about the workings of
          > the Group Soul, the Intellectual Soul, the Consciousness Soul, and
          > beyond to Spirit Self...
          > >
          > In any case, the Zapatistas, a small ragtag army, guerilla, in the
          > mountains of Lacondon, at first took up arms, but after a long
          > of negotiations with the (often corrupt) Mexican government,
          > at a truce. Since then, the Zapatistas have a policy of non-
          > and some of the leaders have a practice of meditative, almost
          > monastic silence. Yet, they do have a powerful speaker and
          > writer--the mysterious one known as Subcomandante Marcos, who says
          > repeatedly that through his voice is the voice of the Zapatistas.
          > The Zapatistas have gone beyond Marxism, beyond the Che Guevara
          > revolution, and are seeking to remain beyond violence, so that
          > army is a non-violent army of peace and renewal. They have come to
          > place of deep spiritual communion with their land, with their
          > language, their stories of creation and destiny (the Mayan stories
          > their region). Their work is work in revitalizing these stories,
          > they live in their work with each other and with the land and with
          > all peoples who will join them in this spirit of this new
          > Here is a poem by Comandante David and Subcomandante Marcos (in
          > Spanish and in English). This was written years ago, before they
          > violence aside, but already the spirit of non-violence emerges as
          > many marvelous things in this poem:
          > Hermanos y hermanas de Mexico y el Mundo:
          > En este el ano siete de la guerra contra el ovido, repetimos lo
          > que somos.
          > Somos viento, nosotros. No el pecho que nos sopla.
          > Somos palabra, nosotros. No los labios que nos hablan.
          > Somos paso, nosotros. No elpie que nos anda.
          > Somos latido, nosotros. No el corazon que lo pulsa.
          > Somos puente, nosotros. No los suelos que se unen.
          > Somos camino, nosotros. No el punto de llegada ni de partida.
          > Somos lugar, nosotros. No quien lo ocupa.
          > No existimos, nosotros. Solo somos.
          > Wiete veces somos. Nostros siete veces
          > Nosotros, el espejo repetido.
          > El reflejo, nsostros
          > Lo mano que apenas abre la ventana, nosotros
          > Nosotros, el mundo llamado a la puerta del manana.
          > Indigenous brother and sister of Mexico and the world:
          > In this, the seventh year of the war against oblivion, we repeat
          > who we are.
          > We are wind, we are. Not the breast that breathes us.
          > We are word, we are Not the lips which speak us.
          > We are steps, we are. Not the foot that moves us.
          > We are heartbeat, we are. Not the heart that pulses.
          > We are a bridge, we are. Not the lands that form a union.
          > We are road, we are. Not the point of arrival or departure.
          > We are place, we are. Not those who occupy that place.
          > We do not exist, we are. We only are.
          > SEven times we are. Seven times we are.
          > We are the reflection repeated.
          > The reflection, we are
          > The hand that just opened the window, we are.
          > We are the timid knock at the door of tomorrow.
          > *****

          Let Me Add to this wonderful connection Elaine:

          Studies in Manas and the Spirit Self:

          When facing the occult perception of who has attained Manas or Spirit
          Self under legitimate spiritual cognition we are faced with a
          qualitative cultural delusions regarding the actual abilities of the
          Church to recognize true Halos, or transformed astral bodies in human
          beings. Technically in the religious sphere this amounts to
          Canonization and Beatification.

          Recently the Pope bestowed beatification on two Zapotec Indians who
          were martyred along with many others. The story of their martyrdom
          and appeasement of the politics of Mexico has very little to do with
          the truth of a purified astral body. A saint or bestowing sainthood
          on certain individuals has fallen well below the realm of occult
          perception as religion and the science of man.

          Now we might say that Parsifal had a purified astral body. However if
          I take the Knighting of Paul McCartney or Elton John as something
          that denotes a spiritual truth and the bestowing of the gift on them
          has deep implications into the occult foundations of the world, I
          would be wrong.

          In the case of Parsifal and his meeting with the Christ Being as the
          raised "Youth of Nain" we have a stream of spiritual life through the
          Grail that maintains occult truth to it. The continued revelation of
          Manes and Manicheanism; his opposition to the school of Gondi Shapur;
          or how Manicheanism impacted St. Augustine retains something of
          occult authenticity. We are still on firm ground and can arrive at
          the mystery of the Purified Astral body as that which has survived
          the impulses of adolescence, puberty, sexuality, and emotional
          dysfunction and raised the Sentient Soul to the lofty Halo that has
          been painted around the heads of Saints.

          In the "myth" of Parsifal we are allowed to follow the development of
          an individual who had been raised and touched by the Christ himself.
          We know that a `son of the widow' takes us back to the sentient
          condition of the Egyptian era and that the Youth of Nain was a "son
          of a widow", namely Isis. In the story of Parisfal we see his
          youthful mistakes as a teaching to Waldorf students in the upper
          grades. We also see how he arrives at the compassion and depth of
          soul forces to attain the inner question, the quest that brings
          Parsifal past Kundry – the fallen astral forces- and by recognition
          and compassion arrives at the higher mission of the Angelic
          transformation of the astral body into Spirit-Self. In those three
          drops of blood and the meeting with Gurnemanz the hermit, Parsifal
          arrives at the calm state where Angelic-Dove brotherhood is achieved.

          This Halo represents a Beatification of the astral body as an occult
          perception. The story of the two Mexican Indians who were bestowed
          this recognition of the purification of the astral body by the Pope's
          recent visit to Mexico has the something of the same value as the
          Queen Knighting Elton John. IMO

          I wish to draw attention to our reductionism of what is true and
          what is mere lip service or political gaming. While the method of
          death of the two martyrs recalls the ancient religious practice of
          the Aztecs, in that, their martyrdom and Beatification rests on the
          fact that they were hung for snitching on a pagan ritual. Their
          bodies were taken down and an angry crowd realized suddenly that the
          two were still alive. They cut out their hearts and threw them to the
          dogs. The dogs would not eat them (which shows a rather higher astral
          lawfulness in dogs then in men) and this miracle, that the hearts of
          the men were not eaten by the dogs is the source of why the Church
          considers these two souls worthy of Beatification.

          Their deaths resemble Martyrs deaths and their deaths resemble the
          type of horrific death suffered by Manes at Gondi Shapur and other
          deaths brought about by the self same church which now offers
          Beautification. But we can recall the Wars of Vlad the Impaler and
          the thousands of unnamed Christians who lined the roads of Rome as
          the horror of Crucifixion really took off as a way to straighten out
          the wayward souls who refused to consider Rome and Roman rule above


          "SAN FRANCISCO CAJONOS, Mexico · The two Zapotec Indians died the
          deaths of religious martyrs: Fellow villagers "dragged them, hung
          them and finally decapitated them, cut open their sides to pull out
          their hearts and gave them to the dogs," the Roman Catholic Church

          Pope John Paul II plans to beatify the men -- Juan Bautista and
          Jacinto de los Angeles -- today in Mexico City as part of a trip
          reaching out to Indians in the Americas, who have been the most
          receptive to Protestant conversion in recent years.

          "Beatification is the last formal step before possible sainthood, and
          the ceremony comes a day after the pope canonized the first Indian

          But the details of the men's lives and deaths make some people
          uneasy. They were inspectors working for the Spanish colonial church -
          - essentially informers helping to stamp out non-Christian practices
          rooted in native cultures.

          In September 1700, they told authorities of an Indian religious
          ceremony. Colonial police raided the rite, and villagers enraged by
          the betrayal attacked the informers.

          A church biography omits the punishment for the attackers: Christian
          officials decapitated and quartered 15 men and staked their body
          parts by the roadside as a warning.

          The case brings reminders that the triumph of Christianity in Latin
          America was sometimes a violent process. For some, the martyrs' role
          in helping colonial officials exterminate local practices clashes
          with the church's message that "Indian peoples deserve recognition of
          their way of being and of their autonomy."

          Bradford comments;

          How do we begin to see through the fabric of the real and unreal?
          Certainly most of us cannot yet grasp how the Ego Sheath is embedded
          for our times in the sentient soul, intellectual soul and
          consciousness soul capacities. Much has been written that indicates
          why we are stuck in the lies and delusions of our self-made,
          stubborn, intellectual soul framework with its political Wag the Dawg
          ideologies. Yet somehow we are to unfold an understanding of what the
          Spirit Self means. Had Mother Theresa attained the Spirit Self? To
          this we might compare Gandhi as well. Who bestows on Gandhi a
          transformed astral body into a beautification or purification into
          the Spirit Self? I do if the Pope doesn't. If the Catholic church
          does not recognize anyone who transforms their astral body into what
          the Angels require of brotherhood on earth, then the Church is
          following a path of hypocrisy. Do our current leaders really have the
          spiritual capacity to actually see these things? The answer of course
          is no they do not! Are most of us hypocrites? Absolutely

          The Pope was an Anthroposophical actor and attended study groups
          where Rudolf Steiner was mentioned frequently. The Popeis a normal
          bloke, a Polish guy who took the path that laid the Peter Stone, the
          Petra mantle, on his shoulders. What about Tomberg? Tomberg entered
          the Peter circle of the three circles of John/Peter and Paul.. Both
          Tomberg and the Pope entered into the Peter mantle of faith based
          knowledge after meeting Rudolf Steiner. Does Anthroposophy have a
          clue to the reasons for Tomberg's decision? You tell me.

          What we have are very superficial gobs of people who follow along
          without the slightest understanding that Halos of saints and
          purification of the Astral body is a normal path of spiritual
          development. The 99% majority of mankind is clueless as to how the
          astral body functions and what it might change into. Now the real
          kicker is that when The Sun Being Christ united with
          Zarathustra/Jesus… (Oh, don't even ask me to explain this mighty
          chunk of wisdom to the Catholics.) He, the Christ, as an Elohim was
          able to penetrate as far as the Spirit Self of Jesus. Between Buddha,
          Zarathustra and Krishna, the aura of the Sun-Spirit, the Christ
          appears at the Transfiguration speaking to Moses and Elijah in His
          mighty Manas body of light. But who is asleep below unable to rise to
          this Spirit-Self condition? You tell me.

          It takes advancement of soul to recognize, transform and change the
          astral body into a higher member of the human I AM, but it took an
          enormous effort from East and West to unite and bring about the
          shattering event of Golgotha and the Transfiguration and
          Resurrection. This in pouring force of the gods Atma body is the
          actual substance that brought about the higher genetic/spiritual
          equation of the Resurrection Body, the Phantom. Certainly Tomberg
          recognized these facts. Certainly the anthro-actor Pope does not. You
          tell me.

          But we can detect again in these most recent events a penetration by
          the Catholic Church into the Aztec/Mexican mysteries that attempt to
          bring band aids and lip service to forces that were betrayed long ago
          by the quest for Gold and the Avarice of Philip the Fair. This
          Beautification along with Canonization of someone who saw the Virgin
          of Guadalupe are types of perceptions that remain riddled with false
          understanding around the Spirit of Man and the Christ event. Here
          also the rhythm that binds the Catholic Church to its scandals, the
          Political betrayal of human rights and the infection of Avarice find
          themselves sputtering in the time line of history that has had
          devastating results through 666-1332-1998. The ripple of these events
          did not stop because these dates were indicated as benchmark
          culminating factors. The Babylonian Captivity of the Church and the
          martyring of Spiritually fine human Beings continued once these
          concrete betrayals were accomplished.

          Current events are not so dry and impossible to see through as it
          appears at first glance at the news. Common sense in the highest
          meaning of the Michael School should be maintained even when it comes
          to looking at our own Anthroposophical Community. That which passes
          for interest in Anthroposophy does not immediately make for active
          understanding of Michael Imaginations in our current time frame. IMO

        • elaineupton2001
          Hello Bradford and all interested, There is much in your post, dear Bradford, that is well worth discussing and taking to heart. Indeed, we make (the Church
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 6, 2003
            Hello Bradford and all interested,

            There is much in your post, dear Bradford, that is well worth
            discussing and taking to heart. Indeed, we make (the Church makes)
            problematic beatifications and we have (in most cases) a limited
            understanding of the Spirit Self. The story of Juan Diego and his
            visitation from the Virgin of Guadelupe is a rich story, however,
            beatification or not...More needs to be looked at here, I'd say.

          • elaineupton2001
            Hello once again,Bradford and all interested, Sorry that I was a bit rushed in writing my last note to you, on your rich post on the movie star cult,the
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 6, 2003
              Hello once again,Bradford and all interested,

              Sorry that I was a bit rushed in writing my last note to you, on your
              rich post on the movie star cult,the Catholic Church and its saint
              and false beatifications in,especially, the region of Latin
              America,things that show a failure, I believe you are saying, to
              understand the Spirit Self and the relationship of Manes and Christ.ç

              In writing, you mention, among other examples,the beatification of
              the peasant who met the Lady of Guadelupe (the peasant´s Spanish name
              is Juan Diego, though that is not his native name). In my last note,I
              replied to that part of your post (see my last reply just below
              here), and I will now add a little to this(and relate it to my
              original post on this thread:the nature of the revolution of the
              Zapatistas in Chiapas, a state in Mexico). First, from my last post:

              > There is much in your post, dear Bradford, that is well worth
              > discussing and taking to heart. Indeed, we make (the Church makes)
              > problematic beatifications and we have (in most cases) a limited
              > understanding of the Spirit Self. The story of Juan Diego and his
              > visitation from the Virgin of Guadelupe is a rich story, however,
              > beatification or not...More needs to be looked at here, I'd say.

              OK, to continue a little:

              I would not go so far as to claim that¨"Juan Diego",the Mexican
              peasant who met the Lady of Guadelupe, attained Spirit Self. Neither
              would I go so far as to claim that the Zapatistas--Subcomandante
              Marcos or others, have attained Spirit SElf.The intent of my original
              post was not to claim such of the Zapatistas, but rather to suggest
              and to open up the wider view that there is something very special
              going on here in the realizations of certain Zapatistas,and that it
              is the burgeoning of an attempt to reach beyond limits of group soul,
              intellectual soul,and even to realize beyond Consciousness Soul, not
              that they have fully achieved that realization.We (at least many of
              us, including perhaps the Zapatistas or Juan Deigo) come to
              realizations by degrees. Not everyone has the Paul on the Road to
              Damascus kind of epiphany all at once. Some experiences are like full
              grown blossoms, and others are buddings on the way to enlightenment
              and realization of Spirit Self.

              And yes, I agree that much in the Catholic Church is
              problematic,including the manner or awarding sainthood. As for the
              Pope and Tomberg and their turning from Steiner, I will leave that to
              others to discuss.

            • S. Groth
              Facing the ultimative either or presented civilians around the world, from one or another warlord, some just petty blackmailers, other advanced imperial
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 10, 2003
                Facing the ultimative "either or" presented civilians around the
                world, from one or another warlord, some just petty blackmailers,
                other advanced imperial caesars, some barbarians other apparently
                highly civilised - but all criminals leaving crippled civilians
                slaugthered as a trail behind them..... I declare my freedom to find
                my say of (neither nor) "NO!", but also (both and) "YES!"

                "Another world is possible. where the choice is between war or peace,
                between memory or oblivion, between hope or despair, between the grey
                on one side and the whoel rainbow on the other side. One world where
                many worlds can excist. It is possible for an "YES!" an incomplete
                unfinished "YES!" to be born out of a "NO!".
                An "YES!" that gives humanity hope back, so that we day by day kan
                rebuild the complex bridge that connects thinking and feeling" ....
                Marcos, from the mountains in Southeast
                Mexico, 1999

                "The past casting shadows, and the future carrying seeds for a new
                reality, meet in the human being, and this meeting is the real life of
                contemporary man" R.Steiner
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