Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Chiapas, The Revolution Different!

Expand Messages
  • elaineupton2001 <elaineupton@hotmail.com>
    Hello all, The Revolution in Chiapas is a different, very unique, kind of revolution, and has much to teach, I believe, about the workings of the Group Soul,
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 28, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello all,

      The Revolution in Chiapas is a different, very unique, kind of
      revolution, and has much to teach, I believe, about the workings of
      the Group Soul, the Intellectual Soul, the Consciousness Soul, and
      beyond to Spirit Self...

      The Zapatistas (Mayan indigenous people, of Chiapas, a state in
      Mexico) appeared on the outer scene in 1994, when they took up arms
      at the time that NAFTA (the North American Free Trade Agreement) was
      signed. They said No to the destruction of their land and resources
      and to the exploitation of their people by large profit-driven
      multinational corporations. This is a long and complex history, that
      I will not go into here. (For instance, one could point out how rich
      a land is Chiapas, rich in coffee, water, and other resources sought
      by multinational corporations in their pursuit of profit and denial
      of indigenous people's rights to determine what happens on the landof
      which they are caretakers.)

      In any case, the Zapatistas, a small ragtag army, guerilla, in the
      mountains of Lacondon, at first took up arms, but after a long period
      of negotiations with the (often corrupt) Mexican government, arrived
      at a truce. Since then, the Zapatistas have a policy of non-violence,
      and some of the leaders have a practice of meditative, almost
      monastic silence. Yet, they do have a powerful speaker and marvelous
      writer--the mysterious one known as Subcomandante Marcos, who says
      repeatedly that through his voice is the voice of the Zapatistas.

      The Zapatistas have gone beyond Marxism, beyond the Che Guevara style
      revolution, and are seeking to remain beyond violence, so that their
      army is a non-violent army of peace and renewal. They have come to a
      place of deep spiritual communion with their land, with their
      language, their stories of creation and destiny (the Mayan stories of
      their region). Their work is work in revitalizing these stories, that
      they live in their work with each other and with the land and with
      all peoples who will join them in this spirit of this new Revolution.

      Here is a poem by Comandante David and Subcomandante Marcos (in
      Spanish and in English). This was written years ago, before they put
      violence aside, but already the spirit of non-violence emerges as do
      many marvelous things in this poem:

      Hermanos y hermanas de Mexico y el Mundo:
      En este el ano siete de la guerra contra el ovido, repetimos lo
      que somos.
      Somos viento, nosotros. No el pecho que nos sopla.
      Somos palabra, nosotros. No los labios que nos hablan.
      Somos paso, nosotros. No elpie que nos anda.
      Somos latido, nosotros. No el corazon que lo pulsa.
      Somos puente, nosotros. No los suelos que se unen.
      Somos camino, nosotros. No el punto de llegada ni de partida.
      Somos lugar, nosotros. No quien lo ocupa.
      No existimos, nosotros. Solo somos.
      Wiete veces somos. Nostros siete veces
      Nosotros, el espejo repetido.
      El reflejo, nsostros
      Lo mano que apenas abre la ventana, nosotros
      Nosotros, el mundo llamado a la puerta del manana.

      Indigenous brother and sister of Mexico and the world:
      In this, the seventh year of the war against oblivion, we repeat
      who we are.
      We are wind, we are. Not the breast that breathes us.
      We are word, we are Not the lips which speak us.
      We are steps, we are. Not the foot that moves us.
      We are heartbeat, we are. Not the heart that pulses.
      We are a bridge, we are. Not the lands that form a union.

      We are road, we are. Not the point of arrival or departure.
      We are place, we are. Not those who occupy that place.
      We do not exist, we are. We only are.
      SEven times we are. Seven times we are.
      We are the reflection repeated.
      The reflection, we are
      The hand that just opened the window, we are.
      We are the timid knock at the door of tomorrow.
      *****

      Ola!
      elaine
    • Tonya Columba
      ... I really enjoyed reading this. I love revoulutionary material. Thanks, Tonya __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 28, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        --- Hi,
        I really enjoyed reading this.
        I love revoulutionary material.
        Thanks,
        Tonya

        __________________________________________________
        Do you Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
        http://taxes.yahoo.com/
      • SRC
        Dear Elaine: Great! Can I copy this into my Newsletter? Stephen ... ===== The only thing I regret about my past is the length of it. If I had to live my
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 28, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Elaine:

          Great! Can I copy this into my Newsletter?

          Stephen


          --- "elaineupton2001 <elaineupton@...>" <elaineupton@...>
          wrote:
          > Hello all,
          >
          > The Revolution in Chiapas is a different....


          =====
          "The only thing I regret about my past is the length of it. If I had to live my life again I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner." - Tallulah Bankhead

          "Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation." - Clarence Darrow

          "Those who cannot hear the music think that the dancer is mad." - Rumi

          "The victim who is able to articulate the situation of the victim has ceased to be a victim ? he or she has become a threat." - James Baldwin

          __________________________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
          http://taxes.yahoo.com/
        • elaineupton2001 <elaineupton@hotmail.com>
          Yes, dear Stephen, You can copy it. Anything for the people of Chiapas (and for us all who seek a new world and a new level of soul development)! I think think
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 1, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Yes, dear Stephen,

            You can copy it. Anything for the people of Chiapas (and for us all
            who seek a new world and a new level of soul development)!

            I think think there is some relationship here to your searches and
            discoveries in the realm of Mesoamerican mysteries. The Zapatistas
            are of Mayan descent and Subcomandante Marcos tells Mayan stories...

            Blessings,
            elaine

            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, SRC <mozartg@y...> wrote:
            > Dear Elaine:
            >
            > Great! Can I copy this into my Newsletter?
            >
            > Stephen
            >
            >
            > --- "elaineupton2001 <elaineupton@h...>" <elaineupton@h...>
            > wrote:
            > > Hello all,
            > >
            > > The Revolution in Chiapas is a different....
            >
            >
            > =====
            > "The only thing I regret about my past is the length of it. If I
            had to live my life again I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner." -
            Tallulah Bankhead
            >
            > "Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient
            capital to form a corporation." - Clarence Darrow
            >
            > "Those who cannot hear the music think that the dancer is mad." -
            Rumi
            >
            > "The victim who is able to articulate the situation of the victim
            has ceased to be a victim ? he or she has become a threat." - James
            Baldwin
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
            > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
          • ashley_soren <Sgroth@efn.org>
            ... Cool :-) On the THREEFOLDING list we have just made a revolutionary move from Yahoogroups, to a non-commercial listserver - which have many of the
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 2, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Tonya Columba <dcfairy5@y...> wrote:
              >
              > --- Hi,
              > I really enjoyed reading this.
              > I love revoulutionary material.
              > Thanks,
              > Tonya

              Cool :-)
              On the THREEFOLDING list we have just made a revolutionary move from
              Yahoogroups, to a non-commercial listserver - which have many of the
              advantages found at Yahoo, without throwing advertising in our face
              all the time...

              So for those interested in a revolutionary radical middle - as
              alternative to left-right extremism or grey compromising centralism -

              Here is an invitation to join the discussion group
              THREEFOLDING
              About the metapolitical view of the threefold social organism
              FREEDOM in the CULTURAL SPHERE
              SOLIDARITY in the ECONOMICAL SPHERE
              EQUALITY in the RIGHTS SPHERE

              First presented by Rudolf Steiner

              "It is in our minds free from economical calculations and political
              powergames we find the inspiration, the visions and the strength to
              meet the problems in a creative sustaining way." Sören Groth

              Subscribe: threefolding-subscribe@...
              or go to the webpage
              http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/threefolding


              WELCOME
              Sören Groth sgroth@...

              " The September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in New York and the Battle
              of Genoa in July 2001 in Italy captures the present power
              configuration of the world. Three worldviews are struggling for
              control over the future of the planet. These three worldviews are
              characterized and labeled, broadly, as Jihad, McWorld, and Civitas.
              McWorld is the world of the dominant materialistic modernity that
              governs the world. Jihad is the fundamentalist response of tradition,
              not just Islam, to McWorld. The world of Civitas is the world of
              post-materialism seeking a more spiritual approach, different from
              McWorld and Jihad, to world challenges.

              An elite form of globalization associated with McWorld has taken
              over the planet with disastrous consequences. This elite form of
              globalization is forcing humanity to ask fundamental questions about
              the nature and meaning of human existence, about societies and
              civilizations, and about the nature of nature and humanity?s
              relationship with it. The questions of McWorld cannot be answered from
              the consciousness of McWorld nor Jihad. It requires a post-material
              consciousness, perspective and action to address the problems spawned
              by elite globalization today.

              Fortunately, there is a massive awakening throughout the world
              today in connection with a more spiritual approach and response to the
              challenge of McWorld." Nicanor Perlas
            • holderlin66
              ... period ... arrived ... violence, ... marvelous ... style ... their ... a ... of ... that ... Revolution. ... put ... do ... Let Me Add to this wonderful
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 5, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "elaineupton2001
                <elaineupton@h...>" <elaineupton@h...> wrote:
                > Hello all,
                >
                > The Revolution in Chiapas is a different, very unique, kind of
                > revolution, and has much to teach, I believe, about the workings of
                > the Group Soul, the Intellectual Soul, the Consciousness Soul, and
                > beyond to Spirit Self...
                >
                > >
                > In any case, the Zapatistas, a small ragtag army, guerilla, in the
                > mountains of Lacondon, at first took up arms, but after a long
                period
                > of negotiations with the (often corrupt) Mexican government,
                arrived
                > at a truce. Since then, the Zapatistas have a policy of non-
                violence,
                > and some of the leaders have a practice of meditative, almost
                > monastic silence. Yet, they do have a powerful speaker and
                marvelous
                > writer--the mysterious one known as Subcomandante Marcos, who says
                > repeatedly that through his voice is the voice of the Zapatistas.
                >
                > The Zapatistas have gone beyond Marxism, beyond the Che Guevara
                style
                > revolution, and are seeking to remain beyond violence, so that
                their
                > army is a non-violent army of peace and renewal. They have come to
                a
                > place of deep spiritual communion with their land, with their
                > language, their stories of creation and destiny (the Mayan stories
                of
                > their region). Their work is work in revitalizing these stories,
                that
                > they live in their work with each other and with the land and with
                > all peoples who will join them in this spirit of this new
                Revolution.
                >
                > Here is a poem by Comandante David and Subcomandante Marcos (in
                > Spanish and in English). This was written years ago, before they
                put
                > violence aside, but already the spirit of non-violence emerges as
                do
                > many marvelous things in this poem:
                >
                > Hermanos y hermanas de Mexico y el Mundo:
                > En este el ano siete de la guerra contra el ovido, repetimos lo
                > que somos.
                > Somos viento, nosotros. No el pecho que nos sopla.
                > Somos palabra, nosotros. No los labios que nos hablan.
                > Somos paso, nosotros. No elpie que nos anda.
                > Somos latido, nosotros. No el corazon que lo pulsa.
                > Somos puente, nosotros. No los suelos que se unen.
                > Somos camino, nosotros. No el punto de llegada ni de partida.
                > Somos lugar, nosotros. No quien lo ocupa.
                > No existimos, nosotros. Solo somos.
                > Wiete veces somos. Nostros siete veces
                > Nosotros, el espejo repetido.
                > El reflejo, nsostros
                > Lo mano que apenas abre la ventana, nosotros
                > Nosotros, el mundo llamado a la puerta del manana.
                >
                > Indigenous brother and sister of Mexico and the world:
                > In this, the seventh year of the war against oblivion, we repeat
                > who we are.
                > We are wind, we are. Not the breast that breathes us.
                > We are word, we are Not the lips which speak us.
                > We are steps, we are. Not the foot that moves us.
                > We are heartbeat, we are. Not the heart that pulses.
                > We are a bridge, we are. Not the lands that form a union.
                >
                > We are road, we are. Not the point of arrival or departure.
                > We are place, we are. Not those who occupy that place.
                > We do not exist, we are. We only are.
                > SEven times we are. Seven times we are.
                > We are the reflection repeated.
                > The reflection, we are
                > The hand that just opened the window, we are.
                > We are the timid knock at the door of tomorrow.
                > *****

                Let Me Add to this wonderful connection Elaine:

                Studies in Manas and the Spirit Self:

                When facing the occult perception of who has attained Manas or Spirit
                Self under legitimate spiritual cognition we are faced with a
                qualitative cultural delusions regarding the actual abilities of the
                Church to recognize true Halos, or transformed astral bodies in human
                beings. Technically in the religious sphere this amounts to
                Canonization and Beatification.

                Recently the Pope bestowed beatification on two Zapotec Indians who
                were martyred along with many others. The story of their martyrdom
                and appeasement of the politics of Mexico has very little to do with
                the truth of a purified astral body. A saint or bestowing sainthood
                on certain individuals has fallen well below the realm of occult
                perception as religion and the science of man.

                Now we might say that Parsifal had a purified astral body. However if
                I take the Knighting of Paul McCartney or Elton John as something
                that denotes a spiritual truth and the bestowing of the gift on them
                has deep implications into the occult foundations of the world, I
                would be wrong.

                In the case of Parsifal and his meeting with the Christ Being as the
                raised "Youth of Nain" we have a stream of spiritual life through the
                Grail that maintains occult truth to it. The continued revelation of
                Manes and Manicheanism; his opposition to the school of Gondi Shapur;
                or how Manicheanism impacted St. Augustine retains something of
                occult authenticity. We are still on firm ground and can arrive at
                the mystery of the Purified Astral body as that which has survived
                the impulses of adolescence, puberty, sexuality, and emotional
                dysfunction and raised the Sentient Soul to the lofty Halo that has
                been painted around the heads of Saints.

                In the "myth" of Parsifal we are allowed to follow the development of
                an individual who had been raised and touched by the Christ himself.
                We know that a `son of the widow' takes us back to the sentient
                condition of the Egyptian era and that the Youth of Nain was a "son
                of a widow", namely Isis. In the story of Parisfal we see his
                youthful mistakes as a teaching to Waldorf students in the upper
                grades. We also see how he arrives at the compassion and depth of
                soul forces to attain the inner question, the quest that brings
                Parsifal past Kundry – the fallen astral forces- and by recognition
                and compassion arrives at the higher mission of the Angelic
                transformation of the astral body into Spirit-Self. In those three
                drops of blood and the meeting with Gurnemanz the hermit, Parsifal
                arrives at the calm state where Angelic-Dove brotherhood is achieved.

                This Halo represents a Beatification of the astral body as an occult
                perception. The story of the two Mexican Indians who were bestowed
                this recognition of the purification of the astral body by the Pope's
                recent visit to Mexico has the something of the same value as the
                Queen Knighting Elton John. IMO

                I wish to draw attention to our reductionism of what is true and
                what is mere lip service or political gaming. While the method of
                death of the two martyrs recalls the ancient religious practice of
                the Aztecs, in that, their martyrdom and Beatification rests on the
                fact that they were hung for snitching on a pagan ritual. Their
                bodies were taken down and an angry crowd realized suddenly that the
                two were still alive. They cut out their hearts and threw them to the
                dogs. The dogs would not eat them (which shows a rather higher astral
                lawfulness in dogs then in men) and this miracle, that the hearts of
                the men were not eaten by the dogs is the source of why the Church
                considers these two souls worthy of Beatification.

                Their deaths resemble Martyrs deaths and their deaths resemble the
                type of horrific death suffered by Manes at Gondi Shapur and other
                deaths brought about by the self same church which now offers
                Beautification. But we can recall the Wars of Vlad the Impaler and
                the thousands of unnamed Christians who lined the roads of Rome as
                the horror of Crucifixion really took off as a way to straighten out
                the wayward souls who refused to consider Rome and Roman rule above
                Christianity.

                http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/caribbean/search/sfl-
                hmex01aug01.story?coll=sfla-news-caribbean

                "SAN FRANCISCO CAJONOS, Mexico · The two Zapotec Indians died the
                deaths of religious martyrs: Fellow villagers "dragged them, hung
                them and finally decapitated them, cut open their sides to pull out
                their hearts and gave them to the dogs," the Roman Catholic Church
                says.

                Pope John Paul II plans to beatify the men -- Juan Bautista and
                Jacinto de los Angeles -- today in Mexico City as part of a trip
                reaching out to Indians in the Americas, who have been the most
                receptive to Protestant conversion in recent years.

                "Beatification is the last formal step before possible sainthood, and
                the ceremony comes a day after the pope canonized the first Indian
                saint.

                But the details of the men's lives and deaths make some people
                uneasy. They were inspectors working for the Spanish colonial church -
                - essentially informers helping to stamp out non-Christian practices
                rooted in native cultures.

                In September 1700, they told authorities of an Indian religious
                ceremony. Colonial police raided the rite, and villagers enraged by
                the betrayal attacked the informers.

                A church biography omits the punishment for the attackers: Christian
                officials decapitated and quartered 15 men and staked their body
                parts by the roadside as a warning.

                The case brings reminders that the triumph of Christianity in Latin
                America was sometimes a violent process. For some, the martyrs' role
                in helping colonial officials exterminate local practices clashes
                with the church's message that "Indian peoples deserve recognition of
                their way of being and of their autonomy."

                Bradford comments;

                How do we begin to see through the fabric of the real and unreal?
                Certainly most of us cannot yet grasp how the Ego Sheath is embedded
                for our times in the sentient soul, intellectual soul and
                consciousness soul capacities. Much has been written that indicates
                why we are stuck in the lies and delusions of our self-made,
                stubborn, intellectual soul framework with its political Wag the Dawg
                ideologies. Yet somehow we are to unfold an understanding of what the
                Spirit Self means. Had Mother Theresa attained the Spirit Self? To
                this we might compare Gandhi as well. Who bestows on Gandhi a
                transformed astral body into a beautification or purification into
                the Spirit Self? I do if the Pope doesn't. If the Catholic church
                does not recognize anyone who transforms their astral body into what
                the Angels require of brotherhood on earth, then the Church is
                following a path of hypocrisy. Do our current leaders really have the
                spiritual capacity to actually see these things? The answer of course
                is no they do not! Are most of us hypocrites? Absolutely

                The Pope was an Anthroposophical actor and attended study groups
                where Rudolf Steiner was mentioned frequently. The Popeis a normal
                bloke, a Polish guy who took the path that laid the Peter Stone, the
                Petra mantle, on his shoulders. What about Tomberg? Tomberg entered
                the Peter circle of the three circles of John/Peter and Paul.. Both
                Tomberg and the Pope entered into the Peter mantle of faith based
                knowledge after meeting Rudolf Steiner. Does Anthroposophy have a
                clue to the reasons for Tomberg's decision? You tell me.

                What we have are very superficial gobs of people who follow along
                without the slightest understanding that Halos of saints and
                purification of the Astral body is a normal path of spiritual
                development. The 99% majority of mankind is clueless as to how the
                astral body functions and what it might change into. Now the real
                kicker is that when The Sun Being Christ united with
                Zarathustra/Jesus… (Oh, don't even ask me to explain this mighty
                chunk of wisdom to the Catholics.) He, the Christ, as an Elohim was
                able to penetrate as far as the Spirit Self of Jesus. Between Buddha,
                Zarathustra and Krishna, the aura of the Sun-Spirit, the Christ
                appears at the Transfiguration speaking to Moses and Elijah in His
                mighty Manas body of light. But who is asleep below unable to rise to
                this Spirit-Self condition? You tell me.

                It takes advancement of soul to recognize, transform and change the
                astral body into a higher member of the human I AM, but it took an
                enormous effort from East and West to unite and bring about the
                shattering event of Golgotha and the Transfiguration and
                Resurrection. This in pouring force of the gods Atma body is the
                actual substance that brought about the higher genetic/spiritual
                equation of the Resurrection Body, the Phantom. Certainly Tomberg
                recognized these facts. Certainly the anthro-actor Pope does not. You
                tell me.

                But we can detect again in these most recent events a penetration by
                the Catholic Church into the Aztec/Mexican mysteries that attempt to
                bring band aids and lip service to forces that were betrayed long ago
                by the quest for Gold and the Avarice of Philip the Fair. This
                Beautification along with Canonization of someone who saw the Virgin
                of Guadalupe are types of perceptions that remain riddled with false
                understanding around the Spirit of Man and the Christ event. Here
                also the rhythm that binds the Catholic Church to its scandals, the
                Political betrayal of human rights and the infection of Avarice find
                themselves sputtering in the time line of history that has had
                devastating results through 666-1332-1998. The ripple of these events
                did not stop because these dates were indicated as benchmark
                culminating factors. The Babylonian Captivity of the Church and the
                martyring of Spiritually fine human Beings continued once these
                concrete betrayals were accomplished.

                Current events are not so dry and impossible to see through as it
                appears at first glance at the news. Common sense in the highest
                meaning of the Michael School should be maintained even when it comes
                to looking at our own Anthroposophical Community. That which passes
                for interest in Anthroposophy does not immediately make for active
                understanding of Michael Imaginations in our current time frame. IMO

                Bradford
              • elaineupton2001
                Hello Bradford and all interested, There is much in your post, dear Bradford, that is well worth discussing and taking to heart. Indeed, we make (the Church
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 6, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Bradford and all interested,

                  There is much in your post, dear Bradford, that is well worth
                  discussing and taking to heart. Indeed, we make (the Church makes)
                  problematic beatifications and we have (in most cases) a limited
                  understanding of the Spirit Self. The story of Juan Diego and his
                  visitation from the Virgin of Guadelupe is a rich story, however,
                  beatification or not...More needs to be looked at here, I'd say.

                  Blessings,
                  elaine
                • elaineupton2001
                  Hello once again,Bradford and all interested, Sorry that I was a bit rushed in writing my last note to you, on your rich post on the movie star cult,the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 6, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello once again,Bradford and all interested,

                    Sorry that I was a bit rushed in writing my last note to you, on your
                    rich post on the movie star cult,the Catholic Church and its saint
                    and false beatifications in,especially, the region of Latin
                    America,things that show a failure, I believe you are saying, to
                    understand the Spirit Self and the relationship of Manes and Christ.ç

                    In writing, you mention, among other examples,the beatification of
                    the peasant who met the Lady of Guadelupe (the peasant´s Spanish name
                    is Juan Diego, though that is not his native name). In my last note,I
                    replied to that part of your post (see my last reply just below
                    here), and I will now add a little to this(and relate it to my
                    original post on this thread:the nature of the revolution of the
                    Zapatistas in Chiapas, a state in Mexico). First, from my last post:

                    ,
                    >
                    > There is much in your post, dear Bradford, that is well worth
                    > discussing and taking to heart. Indeed, we make (the Church makes)
                    > problematic beatifications and we have (in most cases) a limited
                    > understanding of the Spirit Self. The story of Juan Diego and his
                    > visitation from the Virgin of Guadelupe is a rich story, however,
                    > beatification or not...More needs to be looked at here, I'd say.
                    *******************************

                    OK, to continue a little:

                    I would not go so far as to claim that¨"Juan Diego",the Mexican
                    peasant who met the Lady of Guadelupe, attained Spirit Self. Neither
                    would I go so far as to claim that the Zapatistas--Subcomandante
                    Marcos or others, have attained Spirit SElf.The intent of my original
                    post was not to claim such of the Zapatistas, but rather to suggest
                    and to open up the wider view that there is something very special
                    going on here in the realizations of certain Zapatistas,and that it
                    is the burgeoning of an attempt to reach beyond limits of group soul,
                    intellectual soul,and even to realize beyond Consciousness Soul, not
                    that they have fully achieved that realization.We (at least many of
                    us, including perhaps the Zapatistas or Juan Deigo) come to
                    realizations by degrees. Not everyone has the Paul on the Road to
                    Damascus kind of epiphany all at once. Some experiences are like full
                    grown blossoms, and others are buddings on the way to enlightenment
                    and realization of Spirit Self.

                    And yes, I agree that much in the Catholic Church is
                    problematic,including the manner or awarding sainthood. As for the
                    Pope and Tomberg and their turning from Steiner, I will leave that to
                    others to discuss.

                    Blessings,
                    elaine
                  • S. Groth
                    Facing the ultimative either or presented civilians around the world, from one or another warlord, some just petty blackmailers, other advanced imperial
                    Message 9 of 9 , Mar 10, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Facing the ultimative "either or" presented civilians around the
                      world, from one or another warlord, some just petty blackmailers,
                      other advanced imperial caesars, some barbarians other apparently
                      highly civilised - but all criminals leaving crippled civilians
                      slaugthered as a trail behind them..... I declare my freedom to find
                      my say of (neither nor) "NO!", but also (both and) "YES!"

                      "Another world is possible. where the choice is between war or peace,
                      between memory or oblivion, between hope or despair, between the grey
                      on one side and the whoel rainbow on the other side. One world where
                      many worlds can excist. It is possible for an "YES!" an incomplete
                      unfinished "YES!" to be born out of a "NO!".
                      An "YES!" that gives humanity hope back, so that we day by day kan
                      rebuild the complex bridge that connects thinking and feeling" ....
                      Marcos, from the mountains in Southeast
                      Mexico, 1999

                      "The past casting shadows, and the future carrying seeds for a new
                      reality, meet in the human being, and this meeting is the real life of
                      contemporary man" R.Steiner
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.