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Re: The Christ Event and the world of the dead: Comments III

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  • joksu57 <jouko.sorvali@kolumbus.fi>
    ... insight derived from?? ... Hello Jeff! That is a relevant question. Let s see if I can provide a decent answer. I admit right away that perhaps it was a
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 23, 2003
      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Pacbay" <pacbay@a...> wrote:
      > I lost something here. Who is Mr. Ervast and where is most of this
      insight derived from??
      >
      > Jeff

      Hello Jeff!

      That is a relevant question. Let's see if I can provide a decent
      answer. I admit right away that perhaps it was a bit thoughless of
      me to give such detailed descriptions from sources that cannot
      studied in english (for the most part) and from an "unknown
      teacher". As those who have read my earlier post might remember, I
      am not an antroposophist, rather a christosophist and this name
      refers to the teachings of Mr. Ervast. But names don't matter that
      much. I have also studied Dr. Steiner's books and lectures nearly 30
      years and I value his work highly.

      There are many similarities in the lives Dr. Steiner and Mr. Ervast
      and this holds true also to their teachings. Pekka Ervast (1875-
      1934, usually called PE) had already as a child many clearvoyant and
      spiritual experiences. PE tell e.g. about an incident when he was
      playing with his younger brother at the age of six, if my memory
      serves me. Suddenly he was watching both children from the ceiling
      and he could understand that it was the same "i" in both children.
      The other children was more a source of joy (his brother) and with
      the other there was more burden and responsibility.

      As a child Mr. Ervast got angry easily, if he saw something
      unjustice done around him. At the age of 14 he heard a voice saying
      to him: you don't have to get angry. PE was surprised and very
      pleased: "What, is it not necessary for me to get angry?". And after
      that day he never got angry. He says also that after this day he
      never knew breaking against the commandments given by Jesus Christ
      in the Sermon on the Mount (though he didn't formally know about
      them yet.) But he says also that he never fulfilled the ideals
      given by Jesus Christ either, he could always see his
      own "incompleteness".

      Mr. Ervast's experinces could not satisfy the spiritual thrist
      inside him, he had to know about God and the meaning of life.
      Eventually this attitude lead him to serious sufferings
      and "soulpains". Finally the situation grew so acute that he was
      crying out to life: Now must come the answer or death. Then he got
      an powerful Christ-experience in waking consciousness (1896), when
      he was nearly 21 years old. Publicly Mr. Ervast told first time
      about this "experience" nearly 20 years later, in his "theosophical
      memories" 1915. It was mainly three times, when during his whole
      life he spoke about this "babtism". PE said that it was very
      difficult to speak about this incident; it was so holy to him and he
      felt like exposing himself to "world which cannot understand".

      Now there was a firm basis to his spiritual work. The path which PE
      promoted afterwards, was this: Seeking the truth above anything else
      and following the ethical advices given by Jesus Christ, the
      disciple should get his own "Damascus-experience" in waking
      consciousness, the Mystical Christ in his heart is "activated",
      Christ is born in him. Then with Christ it is safe to enter in to
      the invisible worlds, "after-the-death-states" as a helper etc.

      When Theosophical Society (TS) was formed in Finland in the
      beginning of 20th century, it was natural that Mr. Ervast became the
      first president. In the beginning everything went smooth, but when
      Mrs. Besant's "social reforms", all new organisations, which
      deviated from the original impulse and especially the "Order of the
      Eastern Star" gained ground, the troubles began. Mr. Ervast could
      not approve this "Krishnamurti-World Teacher" mess advocared by Mrs.
      Besant and Mr. Leadbeater. In the local TS there were though some
      eager supporters of these "official leaders".

      Mr. Ervast invited Dr. Steiner to give lectures in Finland and in
      1912 Dr. Steiner came. During the lecture-cycle these men had deep
      conversations and Dr. Steiner proposed that they should have co-
      operation later. But then the "Krishnamurti-case" grew more acute
      and there was the separation from TS. This separation of Dr. Steiner
      and his followers was very sad thing to Mr. Ervast. He tried to
      prevent this separation by proposing that membership could
      be "spiritual, not geographical". This means that if e.g. a member
      in Great Britain feels that Dr. Steiner is his teacher, he can be a
      member of the TS section lead by Dr. Steiner. Because of
      some "technicality" this proposal was never discussed in official
      meeting. And soon broke the WW I.

      A small group of ex-theosophists in Finland went to the new
      Antroposophical Society (so the "antromovement" in Finland has also
      benefited from the pioneering work of Mr. Ervast) and then there
      were (inside TS) some eager admires of Besant-Leadbeater-
      Krishnamurti "coalition". Mr. Ervast was accused that his views and
      teachings were too near Dr. Steiner. And PE answered that he is an
      independent occultist, who relies on his own researches. This need
      to make some "demarcation line" to Steiner is maybe somehow
      reflected in his books "The Key to the Kalevala" and "The Esoteric
      School of Jesus" from the year 1916 (both books are avaible in
      english translations).

      PE didn't approve the "national views" of the english TS leaders
      during the WW I. He saw that they were prisons of the
      lower "national spirit", when these leaders inspired theosophist to
      fight against to germains, who were lead by supposed "black
      magicians". Universal brotherhood was the only required tenet of the
      original TS. As I said earlier PE didn't approve the "Krishnamurti-
      views" and then there was this schism between Mrs. Besant's "eastern
      occultism" and the occultism of Mr. Ervast, which based on the
      Christ Event and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Eventually all these
      differences lead to a separation and 1920 Mr. Ervast founded the
      Rose-Cross of Finland and a large amount of ex-theosophist joined
      this new organisation. PE called his teachings "Rose-Cross-
      Theosophy" or Christosophy. Now it was easier for him to consentrate
      to "Christ-issues" without internal opposition.

      As a person Mr. Ervast was modest and as a teacher he used allways
      when it was possible, as a starting point, some "old holy texts",
      writings of earlier teachers and most of all, the teachings of Jesus
      Christ. So the descriptions (in my earlier post) which I picked from
      lectures held 1928-1929, are "untypical", there he relies solely on
      his own researches. Mr. Ervast represents a different stream of
      christianity compared to Dr. Steiner. I feel that Dr. Steiner is
      close the "Johannine christianity" and Mr. Ervast represents more
      the "real St. Peter stream". (As I have said in some earlier post, I
      think that St. Stephen is the "real" exponent of this stream, and
      St. Stephen got his own "Damascus-experience" when he was stoned to
      death.) Ethics are crucial in this stream and I have linked also
      Tolstoi to this stream. Some points abouts manicheanism (e.g. Dr.
      Steiner's lecture Manichaeism, Berlin 2 December 1904) fit also to
      Mr. Ervast's teachings, especially to our relation to evil.

      Later Mr. Ervast adopted rituals from freemasonry and he started a
      spiritual school, which had three grades: Blue Lodge, Red Logde and
      the Grail Logde. But he could only open the first degree, the blue
      lodge, before his death in 1934. This is also a striking similarity
      compared to Dr. Steiner and his school in Gotheanum.

      Well, now I realise that this is quite a desperate task which I am
      trying to accomplish. I can give only some "rudimentary pieces".
      Imagine this: Someone asks you: Who is this Rudolf Steiner and where
      are his insight based on? And then you try in a short post (with
      foreign language) to give an adequate answer. So I stop here and in
      the end I cite a few passages from Mr. Ervast's book (authors
      translation), which forms the "ethical core" of Christosophy:

      Pekka Ervast: The Sermon on the Mount or the Key to Christianity
      (pp. 157-158)

      "These are "the five commandments of the heavenly Father,"
      proclaimed by Jesus:
      1) Be not angry
      2) Be pure even in thy thoughts
      3) Swear not
      4) Resist not evil
      5) War not, but love all men.

      The individual man cannot keep these commandments unless a new life
      begins for him. Little by little his condition will alter.

      If all Christians would begin to follow the commandments of Jesus,
      life on earth would be utterly changed. The kingdom of heaven would
      descend upon earth amongst men, and a new age would indeed begin for
      humanity. The lost paradise would be regained.

      But when will that day dawn? It will not dawn, until the children of
      men shall learn about the kingdom of God, about the Eden of
      happiness and bliss, about the path leading to its portals and about
      the keys, given by Jesus wherewith the portals may be opened.

      The kingdom of heaven will not come by itself, spontaneously. It
      will remain in the wordls of the spirit above, until men will pray
      for it to descend upon earth. And prayer is not empty talk, but the
      longing of the soul for the great heights, and the silent meditation
      of the spirit. Nor does preyer empty itself in thoughts; it realises
      itself in works, getting purified into new enthusiasm by the holy
      fire of thruth.

      He who prays follows the Master. He who does the will of the Father,
      he prays indeed."

      Warm Regards
      Joksu
    • eurythmy
      Hi, Do you know if htere is nay work of Mr Ervast availlable on the web? Many thanks, Franky
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 8, 2007
        Hi,
        Do you know if htere is nay work of Mr Ervast availlable on the web?
        Many thanks,
        Franky

        > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Pacbay" <pacbay@a...> wrote:
        >> I lost something here. Who is Mr. Ervast and where is most of this
        > insight derived from??
        >>
        >> Jeff
        >
        > Hello Jeff!
        >
        > That is a relevant question. Let's see if I can provide a decent
        > answer. I admit right away that perhaps it was a bit thoughless of
        > me to give such detailed descriptions from sources that cannot
        > studied in english (for the most part) and from an "unknown
        > teacher". As those who have read my earlier post might remember, I
        > am not an antroposophist, rather a christosophist and this name
        > refers to the teachings of Mr. Ervast. But names don't matter that
        > much. I have also studied Dr. Steiner's books and lectures nearly 30
        > years and I value his work highly.
        >
        > There are many similarities in the lives Dr. Steiner and Mr. Ervast
        > and this holds true also to their teachings. Pekka Ervast (1875-
        > 1934, usually called PE) had already as a child many clearvoyant and
        > spiritual experiences. PE tell e.g. about an incident when he was
        > playing with his younger brother at the age of six, if my memory
        > serves me. Suddenly he was watching both children from the ceiling
        > and he could understand that it was the same "i" in both children.
        > The other children was more a source of joy (his brother) and with
        > the other there was more burden and responsibility.
        >
        > As a child Mr. Ervast got angry easily, if he saw something
        > unjustice done around him. At the age of 14 he heard a voice saying
        > to him: you don't have to get angry. PE was surprised and very
        > pleased: "What, is it not necessary for me to get angry?". And after
        > that day he never got angry. He says also that after this day he
        > never knew breaking against the commandments given by Jesus Christ
        > in the Sermon on the Mount (though he didn't formally know about
        > them yet.) But he says also that he never fulfilled the ideals
        > given by Jesus Christ either, he could always see his
        > own "incompleteness".
        >
        > Mr. Ervast's experinces could not satisfy the spiritual thrist
        > inside him, he had to know about God and the meaning of life.
        > Eventually this attitude lead him to serious sufferings
        > and "soulpains". Finally the situation grew so acute that he was
        > crying out to life: Now must come the answer or death. Then he got
        > an powerful Christ-experience in waking consciousness (1896), when
        > he was nearly 21 years old. Publicly Mr. Ervast told first time
        > about this "experience" nearly 20 years later, in his "theosophical
        > memories" 1915. It was mainly three times, when during his whole
        > life he spoke about this "babtism". PE said that it was very
        > difficult to speak about this incident; it was so holy to him and he
        > felt like exposing himself to "world which cannot understand".
        >
        > Now there was a firm basis to his spiritual work. The path which PE
        > promoted afterwards, was this: Seeking the truth above anything else
        > and following the ethical advices given by Jesus Christ, the
        > disciple should get his own "Damascus-experience" in waking
        > consciousness, the Mystical Christ in his heart is "activated",
        > Christ is born in him. Then with Christ it is safe to enter in to
        > the invisible worlds, "after-the-death-states" as a helper etc.
        >
        > When Theosophical Society (TS) was formed in Finland in the
        > beginning of 20th century, it was natural that Mr. Ervast became the
        > first president. In the beginning everything went smooth, but when
        > Mrs. Besant's "social reforms", all new organisations, which
        > deviated from the original impulse and especially the "Order of the
        > Eastern Star" gained ground, the troubles began. Mr. Ervast could
        > not approve this "Krishnamurti-World Teacher" mess advocared by Mrs.
        > Besant and Mr. Leadbeater. In the local TS there were though some
        > eager supporters of these "official leaders".
        >
        > Mr. Ervast invited Dr. Steiner to give lectures in Finland and in
        > 1912 Dr. Steiner came. During the lecture-cycle these men had deep
        > conversations and Dr. Steiner proposed that they should have co-
        > operation later. But then the "Krishnamurti-case" grew more acute
        > and there was the separation from TS. This separation of Dr. Steiner
        > and his followers was very sad thing to Mr. Ervast. He tried to
        > prevent this separation by proposing that membership could
        > be "spiritual, not geographical". This means that if e.g. a member
        > in Great Britain feels that Dr. Steiner is his teacher, he can be a
        > member of the TS section lead by Dr. Steiner. Because of
        > some "technicality" this proposal was never discussed in official
        > meeting. And soon broke the WW I.
        >
        > A small group of ex-theosophists in Finland went to the new
        > Antroposophical Society (so the "antromovement" in Finland has also
        > benefited from the pioneering work of Mr. Ervast) and then there
        > were (inside TS) some eager admires of Besant-Leadbeater-
        > Krishnamurti "coalition". Mr. Ervast was accused that his views and
        > teachings were too near Dr. Steiner. And PE answered that he is an
        > independent occultist, who relies on his own researches. This need
        > to make some "demarcation line" to Steiner is maybe somehow
        > reflected in his books "The Key to the Kalevala" and "The Esoteric
        > School of Jesus" from the year 1916 (both books are avaible in
        > english translations).
        >
        > PE didn't approve the "national views" of the english TS leaders
        > during the WW I. He saw that they were prisons of the
        > lower "national spirit", when these leaders inspired theosophist to
        > fight against to germains, who were lead by supposed "black
        > magicians". Universal brotherhood was the only required tenet of the
        > original TS. As I said earlier PE didn't approve the "Krishnamurti-
        > views" and then there was this schism between Mrs. Besant's "eastern
        > occultism" and the occultism of Mr. Ervast, which based on the
        > Christ Event and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Eventually all these
        > differences lead to a separation and 1920 Mr. Ervast founded the
        > Rose-Cross of Finland and a large amount of ex-theosophist joined
        > this new organisation. PE called his teachings "Rose-Cross-
        > Theosophy" or Christosophy. Now it was easier for him to consentrate
        > to "Christ-issues" without internal opposition.
        >
        > As a person Mr. Ervast was modest and as a teacher he used allways
        > when it was possible, as a starting point, some "old holy texts",
        > writings of earlier teachers and most of all, the teachings of Jesus
        > Christ. So the descriptions (in my earlier post) which I picked from
        > lectures held 1928-1929, are "untypical", there he relies solely on
        > his own researches. Mr. Ervast represents a different stream of
        > christianity compared to Dr. Steiner. I feel that Dr. Steiner is
        > close the "Johannine christianity" and Mr. Ervast represents more
        > the "real St. Peter stream". (As I have said in some earlier post, I
        > think that St. Stephen is the "real" exponent of this stream, and
        > St. Stephen got his own "Damascus-experience" when he was stoned to
        > death.) Ethics are crucial in this stream and I have linked also
        > Tolstoi to this stream. Some points abouts manicheanism (e.g. Dr.
        > Steiner's lecture Manichaeism, Berlin 2 December 1904) fit also to
        > Mr. Ervast's teachings, especially to our relation to evil.
        >
        > Later Mr. Ervast adopted rituals from freemasonry and he started a
        > spiritual school, which had three grades: Blue Lodge, Red Logde and
        > the Grail Logde. But he could only open the first degree, the blue
        > lodge, before his death in 1934. This is also a striking similarity
        > compared to Dr. Steiner and his school in Gotheanum.
        >
        > Well, now I realise that this is quite a desperate task which I am
        > trying to accomplish. I can give only some "rudimentary pieces".
        > Imagine this: Someone asks you: Who is this Rudolf Steiner and where
        > are his insight based on? And then you try in a short post (with
        > foreign language) to give an adequate answer. So I stop here and in
        > the end I cite a few passages from Mr. Ervast's book (authors
        > translation), which forms the "ethical core" of Christosophy:
        >
        > Pekka Ervast: The Sermon on the Mount or the Key to Christianity
        > (pp. 157-158)
        >
        > "These are "the five commandments of the heavenly Father,"
        > proclaimed by Jesus:
        > 1) Be not angry
        > 2) Be pure even in thy thoughts
        > 3) Swear not
        > 4) Resist not evil
        > 5) War not, but love all men.
        >
        > The individual man cannot keep these commandments unless a new life
        > begins for him. Little by little his condition will alter.
        >
        > If all Christians would begin to follow the commandments of Jesus,
        > life on earth would be utterly changed. The kingdom of heaven would
        > descend upon earth amongst men, and a new age would indeed begin for
        > humanity. The lost paradise would be regained.
        >
        > But when will that day dawn? It will not dawn, until the children of
        > men shall learn about the kingdom of God, about the Eden of
        > happiness and bliss, about the path leading to its portals and about
        > the keys, given by Jesus wherewith the portals may be opened.
        >
        > The kingdom of heaven will not come by itself, spontaneously. It
        > will remain in the wordls of the spirit above, until men will pray
        > for it to descend upon earth. And prayer is not empty talk, but the
        > longing of the soul for the great heights, and the silent meditation
        > of the spirit. Nor does preyer empty itself in thoughts; it realises
        > itself in works, getting purified into new enthusiasm by the holy
        > fire of thruth.
        >
        > He who prays follows the Master. He who does the will of the Father,
        > he prays indeed."
        >
        > Warm Regards
        > Joksu
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy
        > Unsubscribe:
        > anthroposophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > List owner: anthroposophy-owner@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • joksu57
        Hello Franky! I m afraid that there are no english translations available right now. I know that there is a project going on, which has the goal to publish all
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 9, 2007
          Hello Franky!

          I'm afraid that there are no english translations available right
          now. I know that there is a project going on, which has the goal to
          publish all the teachings of Mr. Ervast on the Web and hopefully
          these will include also the english translations.

          There are now more than 100 books of Mr. Ervast on the Web, but they
          are all in finnish language. Then there has been one book in german
          available in the net and I have spared a "Word-version" of it. If you
          can read it in german, I can send you that book in e-mail attachment.

          Best Regards: Joksu



          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "eurythmy" <eurythmy@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          > Do you know if htere is nay work of Mr Ervast availlable on the web?
          > Many thanks,
          > Franky
          >
          > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Pacbay" <pacbay@a...>
          wrote:
          > >> I lost something here. Who is Mr. Ervast and where is most of
          this
          > > insight derived from??
          > >>
          > >> Jeff
          > >
          > > Hello Jeff!
          > >
          > > That is a relevant question. Let's see if I can provide a decent
          > > answer. I admit right away that perhaps it was a bit thoughless of
          > > me to give such detailed descriptions from sources that cannot
          > > studied in english (for the most part) and from an "unknown
          > > teacher". As those who have read my earlier post might remember, I
          > > am not an antroposophist, rather a christosophist and this name
          > > refers to the teachings of Mr. Ervast. But names don't matter that
          > > much. I have also studied Dr. Steiner's books and lectures nearly
          30
          > > years and I value his work highly.
          > >
          > > There are many similarities in the lives Dr. Steiner and Mr.
          Ervast
          > > and this holds true also to their teachings. Pekka Ervast (1875-
          > > 1934, usually called PE) had already as a child many clearvoyant
          and
          > > spiritual experiences. PE tell e.g. about an incident when he was
          > > playing with his younger brother at the age of six, if my memory
          > > serves me. Suddenly he was watching both children from the ceiling
          > > and he could understand that it was the same "i" in both children.
          > > The other children was more a source of joy (his brother) and with
          > > the other there was more burden and responsibility.
          > >
          > > As a child Mr. Ervast got angry easily, if he saw something
          > > unjustice done around him. At the age of 14 he heard a voice
          saying
          > > to him: you don't have to get angry. PE was surprised and very
          > > pleased: "What, is it not necessary for me to get angry?". And
          after
          > > that day he never got angry. He says also that after this day he
          > > never knew breaking against the commandments given by Jesus
          Christ
          > > in the Sermon on the Mount (though he didn't formally know about
          > > them yet.) But he says also that he never fulfilled the ideals
          > > given by Jesus Christ either, he could always see his
          > > own "incompleteness".
          > >
          > > Mr. Ervast's experinces could not satisfy the spiritual thrist
          > > inside him, he had to know about God and the meaning of life.
          > > Eventually this attitude lead him to serious sufferings
          > > and "soulpains". Finally the situation grew so acute that he was
          > > crying out to life: Now must come the answer or death. Then he got
          > > an powerful Christ-experience in waking consciousness (1896), when
          > > he was nearly 21 years old. Publicly Mr. Ervast told first time
          > > about this "experience" nearly 20 years later, in
          his "theosophical
          > > memories" 1915. It was mainly three times, when during his whole
          > > life he spoke about this "babtism". PE said that it was very
          > > difficult to speak about this incident; it was so holy to him and
          he
          > > felt like exposing himself to "world which cannot understand".
          > >
          > > Now there was a firm basis to his spiritual work. The path which
          PE
          > > promoted afterwards, was this: Seeking the truth above anything
          else
          > > and following the ethical advices given by Jesus Christ, the
          > > disciple should get his own "Damascus-experience" in waking
          > > consciousness, the Mystical Christ in his heart is "activated",
          > > Christ is born in him. Then with Christ it is safe to enter in to
          > > the invisible worlds, "after-the-death-states" as a helper etc.
          > >
          > > When Theosophical Society (TS) was formed in Finland in the
          > > beginning of 20th century, it was natural that Mr. Ervast became
          the
          > > first president. In the beginning everything went smooth, but when
          > > Mrs. Besant's "social reforms", all new organisations, which
          > > deviated from the original impulse and especially the "Order of
          the
          > > Eastern Star" gained ground, the troubles began. Mr. Ervast could
          > > not approve this "Krishnamurti-World Teacher" mess advocared by
          Mrs.
          > > Besant and Mr. Leadbeater. In the local TS there were though some
          > > eager supporters of these "official leaders".
          > >
          > > Mr. Ervast invited Dr. Steiner to give lectures in Finland and in
          > > 1912 Dr. Steiner came. During the lecture-cycle these men had deep
          > > conversations and Dr. Steiner proposed that they should have co-
          > > operation later. But then the "Krishnamurti-case" grew more acute
          > > and there was the separation from TS. This separation of Dr.
          Steiner
          > > and his followers was very sad thing to Mr. Ervast. He tried to
          > > prevent this separation by proposing that membership could
          > > be "spiritual, not geographical". This means that if e.g. a member
          > > in Great Britain feels that Dr. Steiner is his teacher, he can be
          a
          > > member of the TS section lead by Dr. Steiner. Because of
          > > some "technicality" this proposal was never discussed in official
          > > meeting. And soon broke the WW I.
          > >
          > > A small group of ex-theosophists in Finland went to the new
          > > Antroposophical Society (so the "antromovement" in Finland has
          also
          > > benefited from the pioneering work of Mr. Ervast) and then there
          > > were (inside TS) some eager admires of Besant-Leadbeater-
          > > Krishnamurti "coalition". Mr. Ervast was accused that his views
          and
          > > teachings were too near Dr. Steiner. And PE answered that he is an
          > > independent occultist, who relies on his own researches. This need
          > > to make some "demarcation line" to Steiner is maybe somehow
          > > reflected in his books "The Key to the Kalevala" and "The Esoteric
          > > School of Jesus" from the year 1916 (both books are avaible in
          > > english translations).
          > >
          > > PE didn't approve the "national views" of the english TS leaders
          > > during the WW I. He saw that they were prisons of the
          > > lower "national spirit", when these leaders inspired theosophist
          to
          > > fight against to germains, who were lead by supposed "black
          > > magicians". Universal brotherhood was the only required tenet of
          the
          > > original TS. As I said earlier PE didn't approve
          the "Krishnamurti-
          > > views" and then there was this schism between Mrs.
          Besant's "eastern
          > > occultism" and the occultism of Mr. Ervast, which based on the
          > > Christ Event and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Eventually all
          these
          > > differences lead to a separation and 1920 Mr. Ervast founded the
          > > Rose-Cross of Finland and a large amount of ex-theosophist joined
          > > this new organisation. PE called his teachings "Rose-Cross-
          > > Theosophy" or Christosophy. Now it was easier for him to
          consentrate
          > > to "Christ-issues" without internal opposition.
          > >
          > > As a person Mr. Ervast was modest and as a teacher he used allways
          > > when it was possible, as a starting point, some "old holy texts",
          > > writings of earlier teachers and most of all, the teachings of
          Jesus
          > > Christ. So the descriptions (in my earlier post) which I picked
          from
          > > lectures held 1928-1929, are "untypical", there he relies solely
          on
          > > his own researches. Mr. Ervast represents a different stream of
          > > christianity compared to Dr. Steiner. I feel that Dr. Steiner is
          > > close the "Johannine christianity" and Mr. Ervast represents more
          > > the "real St. Peter stream". (As I have said in some earlier
          post, I
          > > think that St. Stephen is the "real" exponent of this stream, and
          > > St. Stephen got his own "Damascus-experience" when he was stoned
          to
          > > death.) Ethics are crucial in this stream and I have linked also
          > > Tolstoi to this stream. Some points abouts manicheanism (e.g. Dr.
          > > Steiner's lecture Manichaeism, Berlin 2 December 1904) fit also to
          > > Mr. Ervast's teachings, especially to our relation to evil.
          > >
          > > Later Mr. Ervast adopted rituals from freemasonry and he started a
          > > spiritual school, which had three grades: Blue Lodge, Red Logde
          and
          > > the Grail Logde. But he could only open the first degree, the blue
          > > lodge, before his death in 1934. This is also a striking
          similarity
          > > compared to Dr. Steiner and his school in Gotheanum.
          > >
          > > Well, now I realise that this is quite a desperate task which I am
          > > trying to accomplish. I can give only some "rudimentary pieces".
          > > Imagine this: Someone asks you: Who is this Rudolf Steiner and
          where
          > > are his insight based on? And then you try in a short post (with
          > > foreign language) to give an adequate answer. So I stop here and
          in
          > > the end I cite a few passages from Mr. Ervast's book (authors
          > > translation), which forms the "ethical core" of Christosophy:
          > >
          > > Pekka Ervast: The Sermon on the Mount or the Key to Christianity
          > > (pp. 157-158)
          > >
          > > "These are "the five commandments of the heavenly Father,"
          > > proclaimed by Jesus:
          > > 1) Be not angry
          > > 2) Be pure even in thy thoughts
          > > 3) Swear not
          > > 4) Resist not evil
          > > 5) War not, but love all men.
          > >
          > > The individual man cannot keep these commandments unless a new
          life
          > > begins for him. Little by little his condition will alter.
          > >
          > > If all Christians would begin to follow the commandments of Jesus,
          > > life on earth would be utterly changed. The kingdom of heaven
          would
          > > descend upon earth amongst men, and a new age would indeed begin
          for
          > > humanity. The lost paradise would be regained.
          > >
          > > But when will that day dawn? It will not dawn, until the children
          of
          > > men shall learn about the kingdom of God, about the Eden of
          > > happiness and bliss, about the path leading to its portals and
          about
          > > the keys, given by Jesus wherewith the portals may be opened.
          > >
          > > The kingdom of heaven will not come by itself, spontaneously. It
          > > will remain in the wordls of the spirit above, until men will pray
          > > for it to descend upon earth. And prayer is not empty talk, but
          the
          > > longing of the soul for the great heights, and the silent
          meditation
          > > of the spirit. Nor does preyer empty itself in thoughts; it
          realises
          > > itself in works, getting purified into new enthusiasm by the holy
          > > fire of thruth.
          > >
          > > He who prays follows the Master. He who does the will of the
          Father,
          > > he prays indeed."
          > >
          > > Warm Regards
          > > Joksu
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy
          > > Unsubscribe:
          > > anthroposophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > List owner: anthroposophy-owner@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          >
        • joksu57
          Hello! Franky asked about the works of Mr Ervast (=PE) available on the web. Now there really exists a lot of material and these works include e.g. three
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 21, 2007
            Hello!

            Franky asked about the works of Mr Ervast (=PE) available on the
            web. Now there really exists a lot of material and these works
            include e.g. three books and some correspondence in english. A short
            introduction:

            The address is: www.pekkaervast.net . In the section "teokset"
            (=works) there is:

            1) H. P. B. The Sphinx of the XIXth Century: This is a play about
            Blavatsky and some incidents from her life. Mr. Ervast valued highly
            the pioneering work of HPB (as can be seen from the text) and he
            didn't approve the point of view represented in the C. G. Harrisons
            book "Trancendental universe" concerning the status of HPB and her
            oriental Masters. PE has also told that the met not only HPB in the
            invisible world, but also his Master Morya.

            The theme about the occult inprisonment has been dealed with in
            this forum a long time ago, and this work takes up this matter along
            the workings of the "brothers of the shadow". Also the plot of
            these "brothers" towards Dr. Steiner and his followers is referred to
            in this play.

            Though Mr. Ervast has stated that HPB made mistakes and that we don't
            allways find such concepts in the teachings of HPB as one would
            suppose, he still thinked that things started to get on a wrong track
            with the "Krishnamurti-case" and WW I. In one book PE had a motto
            along which one comes to Christ by understanding first the "religions
            of the old covenant". After the work of HPB a "Christ-impulse" should
            have follewed in TS, but this became impossible, because both Dr.
            Steiner and Mr. Ervast had to leave TS.

            2) The Esoteric School of Jesus: There is interesting material about
            the parables, Lords Prayer, the new Commandments and the effects to
            chakras etc. This book is written in 1916, when PE was still a member
            of TS. He was accused of been too near in the views of Dr. Steiner
            and PE responded that his teachings were based on his own studies and
            experiences.

            3) The Sermon on the Mount or the Key to Christiany: This is one of
            the most fundamental books of Mr. Ervast. It is a new translation
            from the original greek text and then there are commentaries made by
            PE. This book forms the ethical rock bottom of the teachings of PE
            and he is making a clear difference to the old ethical code given by
            Moses in the time of the old covenant.


            Then there is an open letter to the theosophical world "The Mission
            of the Theosophical Society" and in the section "Kirjeenvaihto"
            (=Correspondence) there are some letters e.g. from Annie Besant, C.
            W. Leadbeater and H. S. Olcott from the early theosophical times.

            For those who can read in german, there is Mr. Ervast's letter to Dr.
            Steiner and in the section "teokset" two interesting books: "Mein Weg
            zur Quelle der Wahrheit" (including many autobiographical details)
            and "Kleiner Rosenkreutz-Katechismus", which is part of a larger
            book "Christosophy".

            It is a pity that lately I have not been able to participate actively
            in this Forum. I have had so many wonderful discussions here.
            (Special thanks to Bradford, Jan and Danny!)

            Warmly: Joksu

            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "eurythmy" <eurythmy@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            > Do you know if htere is nay work of Mr Ervast availlable on the web?
            > Many thanks,
            > Franky
            >
            > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Pacbay" <pacbay@a...>
            wrote:
            > >> I lost something here. Who is Mr. Ervast and where is most of
            this
            > > insight derived from??
            > >>
            > >> Jeff
            > >
            > > Hello Jeff!
            > >
            > > That is a relevant question. Let's see if I can provide a decent
            > > answer. I admit right away that perhaps it was a bit thoughless of
            > > me to give such detailed descriptions from sources that cannot
            > > studied in english (for the most part) and from an "unknown
            > > teacher". As those who have read my earlier post might remember, I
            > > am not an antroposophist, rather a christosophist and this name
            > > refers to the teachings of Mr. Ervast. But names don't matter that
            > > much. I have also studied Dr. Steiner's books and lectures nearly
            30
            > > years and I value his work highly.
            > >
            > > There are many similarities in the lives Dr. Steiner and Mr.
            Ervast
            > > and this holds true also to their teachings. Pekka Ervast (1875-
            > > 1934, usually called PE) had already as a child many clearvoyant
            and
            > > spiritual experiences. PE tell e.g. about an incident when he was
            > > playing with his younger brother at the age of six, if my memory
            > > serves me. Suddenly he was watching both children from the ceiling
            > > and he could understand that it was the same "i" in both children.
            > > The other children was more a source of joy (his brother) and with
            > > the other there was more burden and responsibility.
            > >
            > > As a child Mr. Ervast got angry easily, if he saw something
            > > unjustice done around him. At the age of 14 he heard a voice
            saying
            > > to him: you don't have to get angry. PE was surprised and very
            > > pleased: "What, is it not necessary for me to get angry?". And
            after
            > > that day he never got angry. He says also that after this day he
            > > never knew breaking against the commandments given by Jesus
            Christ
            > > in the Sermon on the Mount (though he didn't formally know about
            > > them yet.) But he says also that he never fulfilled the ideals
            > > given by Jesus Christ either, he could always see his
            > > own "incompleteness".
            > >
            > > Mr. Ervast's experinces could not satisfy the spiritual thrist
            > > inside him, he had to know about God and the meaning of life.
            > > Eventually this attitude lead him to serious sufferings
            > > and "soulpains". Finally the situation grew so acute that he was
            > > crying out to life: Now must come the answer or death. Then he got
            > > an powerful Christ-experience in waking consciousness (1896), when
            > > he was nearly 21 years old. Publicly Mr. Ervast told first time
            > > about this "experience" nearly 20 years later, in
            his "theosophical
            > > memories" 1915. It was mainly three times, when during his whole
            > > life he spoke about this "babtism". PE said that it was very
            > > difficult to speak about this incident; it was so holy to him and
            he
            > > felt like exposing himself to "world which cannot understand".
            > >
            > > Now there was a firm basis to his spiritual work. The path which
            PE
            > > promoted afterwards, was this: Seeking the truth above anything
            else
            > > and following the ethical advices given by Jesus Christ, the
            > > disciple should get his own "Damascus-experience" in waking
            > > consciousness, the Mystical Christ in his heart is "activated",
            > > Christ is born in him. Then with Christ it is safe to enter in to
            > > the invisible worlds, "after-the-death-states" as a helper etc.
            > >
            > > When Theosophical Society (TS) was formed in Finland in the
            > > beginning of 20th century, it was natural that Mr. Ervast became
            the
            > > first president. In the beginning everything went smooth, but when
            > > Mrs. Besant's "social reforms", all new organisations, which
            > > deviated from the original impulse and especially the "Order of
            the
            > > Eastern Star" gained ground, the troubles began. Mr. Ervast could
            > > not approve this "Krishnamurti-World Teacher" mess advocared by
            Mrs.
            > > Besant and Mr. Leadbeater. In the local TS there were though some
            > > eager supporters of these "official leaders".
            > >
            > > Mr. Ervast invited Dr. Steiner to give lectures in Finland and in
            > > 1912 Dr. Steiner came. During the lecture-cycle these men had deep
            > > conversations and Dr. Steiner proposed that they should have co-
            > > operation later. But then the "Krishnamurti-case" grew more acute
            > > and there was the separation from TS. This separation of Dr.
            Steiner
            > > and his followers was very sad thing to Mr. Ervast. He tried to
            > > prevent this separation by proposing that membership could
            > > be "spiritual, not geographical". This means that if e.g. a member
            > > in Great Britain feels that Dr. Steiner is his teacher, he can be
            a
            > > member of the TS section lead by Dr. Steiner. Because of
            > > some "technicality" this proposal was never discussed in official
            > > meeting. And soon broke the WW I.
            > >
            > > A small group of ex-theosophists in Finland went to the new
            > > Antroposophical Society (so the "antromovement" in Finland has
            also
            > > benefited from the pioneering work of Mr. Ervast) and then there
            > > were (inside TS) some eager admires of Besant-Leadbeater-
            > > Krishnamurti "coalition". Mr. Ervast was accused that his views
            and
            > > teachings were too near Dr. Steiner. And PE answered that he is an
            > > independent occultist, who relies on his own researches. This need
            > > to make some "demarcation line" to Steiner is maybe somehow
            > > reflected in his books "The Key to the Kalevala" and "The Esoteric
            > > School of Jesus" from the year 1916 (both books are avaible in
            > > english translations).
            > >
            > > PE didn't approve the "national views" of the english TS leaders
            > > during the WW I. He saw that they were prisons of the
            > > lower "national spirit", when these leaders inspired theosophist
            to
            > > fight against to germains, who were lead by supposed "black
            > > magicians". Universal brotherhood was the only required tenet of
            the
            > > original TS. As I said earlier PE didn't approve
            the "Krishnamurti-
            > > views" and then there was this schism between Mrs.
            Besant's "eastern
            > > occultism" and the occultism of Mr. Ervast, which based on the
            > > Christ Event and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Eventually all
            these
            > > differences lead to a separation and 1920 Mr. Ervast founded the
            > > Rose-Cross of Finland and a large amount of ex-theosophist joined
            > > this new organisation. PE called his teachings "Rose-Cross-
            > > Theosophy" or Christosophy. Now it was easier for him to
            consentrate
            > > to "Christ-issues" without internal opposition.
            > >
            > > As a person Mr. Ervast was modest and as a teacher he used allways
            > > when it was possible, as a starting point, some "old holy texts",
            > > writings of earlier teachers and most of all, the teachings of
            Jesus
            > > Christ. So the descriptions (in my earlier post) which I picked
            from
            > > lectures held 1928-1929, are "untypical", there he relies solely
            on
            > > his own researches. Mr. Ervast represents a different stream of
            > > christianity compared to Dr. Steiner. I feel that Dr. Steiner is
            > > close the "Johannine christianity" and Mr. Ervast represents more
            > > the "real St. Peter stream". (As I have said in some earlier
            post, I
            > > think that St. Stephen is the "real" exponent of this stream, and
            > > St. Stephen got his own "Damascus-experience" when he was stoned
            to
            > > death.) Ethics are crucial in this stream and I have linked also
            > > Tolstoi to this stream. Some points abouts manicheanism (e.g. Dr.
            > > Steiner's lecture Manichaeism, Berlin 2 December 1904) fit also to
            > > Mr. Ervast's teachings, especially to our relation to evil.
            > >
            > > Later Mr. Ervast adopted rituals from freemasonry and he started a
            > > spiritual school, which had three grades: Blue Lodge, Red Logde
            and
            > > the Grail Logde. But he could only open the first degree, the blue
            > > lodge, before his death in 1934. This is also a striking
            similarity
            > > compared to Dr. Steiner and his school in Gotheanum.
            > >
            > > Well, now I realise that this is quite a desperate task which I am
            > > trying to accomplish. I can give only some "rudimentary pieces".
            > > Imagine this: Someone asks you: Who is this Rudolf Steiner and
            where
            > > are his insight based on? And then you try in a short post (with
            > > foreign language) to give an adequate answer. So I stop here and
            in
            > > the end I cite a few passages from Mr. Ervast's book (authors
            > > translation), which forms the "ethical core" of Christosophy:
            > >
            > > Pekka Ervast: The Sermon on the Mount or the Key to Christianity
            > > (pp. 157-158)
            > >
            > > "These are "the five commandments of the heavenly Father,"
            > > proclaimed by Jesus:
            > > 1) Be not angry
            > > 2) Be pure even in thy thoughts
            > > 3) Swear not
            > > 4) Resist not evil
            > > 5) War not, but love all men.
            > >
            > > The individual man cannot keep these commandments unless a new
            life
            > > begins for him. Little by little his condition will alter.
            > >
            > > If all Christians would begin to follow the commandments of Jesus,
            > > life on earth would be utterly changed. The kingdom of heaven
            would
            > > descend upon earth amongst men, and a new age would indeed begin
            for
            > > humanity. The lost paradise would be regained.
            > >
            > > But when will that day dawn? It will not dawn, until the children
            of
            > > men shall learn about the kingdom of God, about the Eden of
            > > happiness and bliss, about the path leading to its portals and
            about
            > > the keys, given by Jesus wherewith the portals may be opened.
            > >
            > > The kingdom of heaven will not come by itself, spontaneously. It
            > > will remain in the wordls of the spirit above, until men will pray
            > > for it to descend upon earth. And prayer is not empty talk, but
            the
            > > longing of the soul for the great heights, and the silent
            meditation
            > > of the spirit. Nor does preyer empty itself in thoughts; it
            realises
            > > itself in works, getting purified into new enthusiasm by the holy
            > > fire of thruth.
            > >
            > > He who prays follows the Master. He who does the will of the
            Father,
            > > he prays indeed."
            > >
            > > Warm Regards
            > > Joksu
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy
            > > Unsubscribe:
            > > anthroposophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > List owner: anthroposophy-owner@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            >
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