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Re: does one need to be an anthroposophist to be an anthroposophist?

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  • elaineupton2001 <elaineupton@hotmail.com>
    Dear Jeff and Andrea, I am reading your replies, and I thank you very much for writing on what is an Anthropop, who is in the Michael School (whether they
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 1, 2003
      Dear Jeff and Andrea,

      I am reading your replies, and I thank you very much for writing on
      what is an Anthropop, who is in the Michael School (whether they
      follow Steiner´s teachings or not), and the differences, as you each
      see them,between eXoteric and eSoteric Christianity.

      In general ways, I agree with much of what you both have said, and
      yet I still have questions and what i suspect are (friendly)
      disagreements,which I may be able to articulate next week. I probably
      will not be online tomorrow (Sunday), but will sleep on all this over
      the next nights til early next week , perhaps.

      OK,just to take a minute now before I go--just to give you an idea of
      one of my questions and views still: I´m not sure that I agree that
      those who consciously follow anthroposophical terminology,methodology
      (or that of Spiritual Science as taught by Steiner) or coming to any
      more conscious knowledge of the Cosmos and Spirit World than many
      others who follow other Christian (or other) paths. Many of these
      souls have tremendous insights, tremendous, and do wonderful work in
      the world. They just use different terms than Steiner-ites or
      anthropops.These terms,the languages,do make a difference, of
      course,i feel,but the difference is not,as i see it,one of
      inferiority or that they are less conscious(I refer to certain
      enlightened ones, not to your everyday unconscious casual Christian
      or Muslim or Jew or Buddhist, etc.).

      So,I would question of those who follow what they/we term the Michael
      School or term ¨Spiritual Science¨really have something ¨plus¨, as
      one of you put it. I don´t see this when I look around in the world
      of those who are really dedicated to their spiritual path, those who
      are quite advanced.

      Maybe I´ll give examples next time.

      At any rate,whether we agree or disagree,keep the discussion coming.
      I will read you and find your posts helpful!

      With thanks,
      elaine
    • Pacbay
      ... From: elaineupton2001 To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 4:53 PM Subject: [anthroposophy] Re:
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 1, 2003
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 4:53 PM
        Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: does one need to be an anthroposophist to be an anthroposophist?

        Dear Jeff and Andrea,

        I am reading your replies, and I thank you very much for writing on
        what is an Anthropop, who is in the Michael School (whether they
        follow Steiner´s teachings or not), and the differences, as you each
        see them,between eXoteric and eSoteric Christianity.

        In general ways, I agree with much of what you both have said, and
        yet I still have questions and what i suspect are (friendly)
        disagreements,which I may be able to articulate next week. I probably
        will not be online tomorrow (Sunday), but will sleep on all this over
        the next nights til early next week , perhaps.
         
        Fine. I will await your reply. And I would say also that a Rosicrucian training will produce precisely the same soul qualities and clear objective visionary abilities as Anthroposophy. This has been demonstrated by other seers on this path. The work of Markides (the Magus series depicting the life and teaching of a Mediterranean esoteric teacher) also indicates that other paths and schools allow for a similar type of knowledge and vision. What may not be possible without AP are finer distinctions and recognition of other central forces and beings like the interplay of Ahriman and Lucifer. No one has mentioned this dual relationship and it is a one contribution that AP training does provide. This would be essential for clear seeing and knowledge when one does enter into direct spiritual realms. And this again points out the real differences between major esoteric paths and lesser ones. The fullness of knowledge and the overview presented in the present Michael movements are unmatched elsewhere. But again this is just on the knowledge side. This is not real spirituality until it manifests in the soul and in the world as self evident qualities of the spirit (and not just in the "head".). I have seen so many people on this path who can expound for hours from their understanding and study but cannot sit for a hour in complete solitude or listen attentively without judgment or bias to another in distress or work in a soup kitchen with the poor.  
         
        Jeff


        OK,just to take a minute now before I go--just to give you an idea of
        one of my questions and views still: I´m not sure that I agree that
        those who consciously follow anthroposophical terminology,methodology
        (or that of Spiritual Science as taught by Steiner) or coming to any
        more conscious knowledge of the Cosmos and Spirit World than many
        others who follow other Christian (or other) paths.
      • elaineupton2001 <elaineupton@hotmail.com>
        Hello Jeff, Andrea, and any interested, Thanks, guys, for keeping on with the discussion. I want to be as clear as I can in reply. The question of whether
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 3, 2003
          Hello Jeff, Andrea, and any interested,


          Thanks, guys, for keeping on with the discussion. I want to be as
          clear as I can in reply.

          The question of whether those who follow spiritual paths that are not
          outwardly called Michaelic or outwardly called an anthroposophically
          inspired or spiritual science path are just as capable of initiation
          and higher realizations as the, for short hand, "anthropops" is one
          we are discussing.

          One of you wrote also about being judgemental of others or not. Good
          area to discuss, I feel.

          I said I would try to reply with some concrete examples of people,
          say outwardly non "anthropops", on a spiritual path. Let's take
          Mother Teresa or the venerable monk Thich Nhat Hanh, or maybe others.

          Anthropops can talk about "consciousness soul" and epochs and such
          that Mother T. does not talk about, and yet she does the WORK of
          compassion, so I think both she and the anthropops have something,
          but is one better than the other?

          Or are both incomplete and awaiting further incarnations?

          Blessings,
          elaine

          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Pacbay" <pacbay@a...> wrote:
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: elaineupton2001 <elaineupton@h...>
          > To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 4:53 PM
          > Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: does one need to be an
          anthroposophist to be an anthroposophist?
          >
          >
          > Dear Jeff and Andrea,
          >
          > I am reading your replies, and I thank you very much for writing
          on
          > what is an Anthropop, who is in the Michael School (whether they
          > follow Steiner´s teachings or not), and the differences, as you
          each
          > see them,between eXoteric and eSoteric Christianity.
          >
          > In general ways, I agree with much of what you both have said,
          and
          > yet I still have questions and what i suspect are (friendly)
          > disagreements,which I may be able to articulate next week. I
          probably
          > will not be online tomorrow (Sunday), but will sleep on all this
          over
          > the next nights til early next week , perhaps.
          >
          > Fine. I will await your reply. And I would say also that a
          Rosicrucian training will produce precisely the same soul qualities
          and clear objective visionary abilities as Anthroposophy. This has
          been demonstrated by other seers on this path. The work of Markides
          (the Magus series depicting the life and teaching of a Mediterranean
          esoteric teacher) also indicates that other paths and schools allow
          for a similar type of knowledge and vision. What may not be possible
          without AP are finer distinctions and recognition of other central
          forces and beings like the interplay of Ahriman and Lucifer. No one
          has mentioned this dual relationship and it is a one contribution
          that AP training does provide. This would be essential for clear
          seeing and knowledge when one does enter into direct spiritual
          realms. And this again points out the real differences between major
          esoteric paths and lesser ones. The fullness of knowledge and the
          overview presented in the present Michael movements are unmatched
          elsewhere. But again this is just on the knowledge side. This is not
          real spirituality until it manifests in the soul and in the world as
          self evident qualities of the spirit (and not just in the "head".). I
          have seen so many people on this path who can expound for hours from
          their understanding and study but cannot sit for a hour in complete
          solitude or listen attentively without judgment or bias to another in
          distress or work in a soup kitchen with the poor.
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          >
          > OK,just to take a minute now before I go--just to give you an
          idea of
          > one of my questions and views still: I´m not sure that I agree
          that
          > those who consciously follow anthroposophical
          terminology,methodology
          > (or that of Spiritual Science as taught by Steiner) or coming to
          any
          > more conscious knowledge of the Cosmos and Spirit World than many
          > others who follow other Christian (or other) paths.
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