R: Andrea correct? (smile)-Re: R: [anthroposophy] Berdyaev correct ? !
- Wow!! I'm in the crossfire of the US artillery!!!
Well I'll try to respond the best i can.....
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 11:55 PM
Subject: Andrea correct? (smile)-Re: R: [anthroposophy] Berdyaev correct ? !
> My dear Andrea,
> On this thread of Berdyaev, as on the thread of the Michaeli and
> American needs, you show some tendencies, at least what appear to me
> as tendencies, that I find interesting and worth noting and looking
> at, not as an attack or charge at you, but as a lesson for me and all
> and any who are interested, in how we think and present what we think
> we know.
> For example, in your responses to Joel and Stephen on the "American
> needs" thread, you tend to say things like, "I don't agree" and such
> and then really not give any follow up. This, at least, is what I
> notice. This is worth looking at, at the times when you do this, at
> the time when I might do this, or Joel or Stephen, or lightsearcher
> or brother ron, or even when (if) Rudolf Steiner might sometimes do
> this. It is also the problem some people are having with Mr.
> Prokofieff, that he says things with authority, and then does not
> show the path to this authority, but expects apparently expects
> people to just accept what he says. This is not the road, it seems to
> me, of the Consciousness Soul, a road where we each come into our own
> wakeful I (in Christ), take up our Cross and examine and provide
> perceptual experience rather than just hand down dictums or
> authoritatve statements without proof or evidence from experience.
you are able to understand that everytime I or someoneelse make a remark is
quite impossible "to support it in deep" as you seem to say.
Since we are all free to agree or not
I can also say " "I say what I said " following only my small, little
"authority" sprung from 30 years in Anthroposphy......trying to meet "your"
authority if possible....
> Now, in the Berddyaev post you write:
> > Dear listmates.
> > I know something of Berdjaev biography and while i feel respect
> for his
> > tragic karma the only thing i have to say in this thread is the
> > he did not understand nothing of Anthroposophy and , in the same
> > nothing of Who Steiner was.
> > Andrea
> You say this is "the only thing you have to say", and personally, I
> don't find that very helpful. Am I just supposed to to believe what
> you say about Berdyaev not understanding Anthroposophy or Steiner, or
> can you and will you provide evidence, real evidence from your own
> experience that I can at least look at and examine, make up my own
> mind and heart about, in a spirit of (Consciousness Soul) freedom?
> So, I would, and do, ask you, if you will, to say more of what
> evidence you have, what experience you have had, that leads you to
> this view of (or authority on)what Berdyaev knows or not about
> Anthroposophy. Can you do that, and will you, please?
Well, here I admit to have had a "nervous scream ".
It's a personal,biographic matter: long,long discussions in my early
thirties to fellows and friends followers of
Berdjaev,Florenski,Guènon,Evola, Strofinacci, and so on, more or less all
the "traditional esoteric" european milieu .
They all everytime claimed "Steiner was not correct", "Steiner was a
pseudo.inititate" "Steiner was this or that"
Whta a bothering affaire!
What to say on a more objective level ?
The same I said about Tomberg's matter: it's an interesting guy on a general
cultural level, but, in my opinion, he has nothing to tell to the one who is
looking for the "Living Thinking" or "Antropos-Sophia" if you prefer.
Am I dogmatic ?
Sometimes I feel the need to be so, dear american listmates , don't uou
forget that this an ANTHROPOSOPHY list.
> You may well be right that Berdyaev does not know Anthroposophy. I am
> suspicious of how he lumps all "occultism" (so-called) together, but
> I will keep an open mind until I know more of him and his views in
> As for "American needs", I suggest, as Stephen and Joel have each in
> their own different ways pointed out, that you come live, breathe in
> America, not through imposing European ideas, but come, as in one of
> the Six BAsic exercises you speak of, with a completely open mind.
> Then you might learn about "American needs." I would not begin to
> presume that I knew about "Italian needs", not even after living
> there for a few months....Six Basic exercises notwithstanding...
> Talk about Living thinking? The idea is not so complicated. It is
> pretty clear to most anyone it seems to me that there are things that
> are quite, quite different and unique about this vast and varied
> continent we call "America" as compared to Europe or Africa or Asia
> (in broad and important generalities). There is no other place I know
> (and I have lived in other countries and on other continents) that
> has this zeal for liberty and democracy that the U.S. of America has.
> We here are far, far from realizing this ideal, but it is a strong
> ideal, President Bush and his tendencies to dictatorship
> notwithstanding. That is one example, but if that is too, too
> abstract, then just take the landscapes--there are several that are
> quite unique and that shape people's breaths, movements, perceptions,
> and play into a unique kind of thinking that is part of the larger
> I could go on with what seems to obvious to belabor. Stephen and Joel
> can speak eloquently to this. So again, I suggest you come to America
> and live here, really here, openly (in the spirit of the Exercise on
> complete openness). I will not do the same for Italy (smile), but
> then I do not claim to know what Italy needs.
Elaine, can you re-read and re-think what I wrote recently to Stephen,
> Sending warm wishes,
> List owner: firstname.lastname@example.org
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