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Re: [anthroposophy] A Modern Spiritual Path [was: Light on the Path - A universal question]

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  • Pacbay
    If I were to live by this atavistic principle, several of my friends would be devoid of critical spiritual and psychological realizations that came early on in
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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      If I were to live by this atavistic principle, several of my friends would be devoid of critical spiritual and psychological realizations that came early on in their pursuits in their 20's. Though Eastern in nature, they remain the most convincing and powerful seminal experiences of the spiritual that they have had since. This includes two who has worked with the AP and Rosicrucian path for over 30 years!! They are still waiting for "that breakthrough".
       
      Jeff
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: SRC
      Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 12:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] A Modern Spiritual Path [was: Light on the Path - A universal question]

      DearJeff:

      I appreciate your well-informed contributions on a thread which is showing
      some pernicious tendencies, specifically the <backward> thing.

      According to the logic of Starman and some others, one should also reject
      one's own childhood as <atavistic> or <backward>.  Yet we all know - or
      should know - about the vital and continuing importance of our early
      development, a development which is not <over>, but which continues to
      operate in a very lively fashion below the most recent layers of
      development. 
      For example, if one has not acq  

      --- Pacbay <pacbay@...> wrote:
      > Quam,
      >
    • Pacbay
      jeff- you are free to think and say whatever you want. lack of knowledge, conscientiousness and a willingness to find Truth is the difference between
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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        jeff-
         
        you are free to think and say whatever you want. lack of knowledge, conscientiousness and a willingness to find Truth is the difference between Anthroposophy and the off-the-wall ways of thought you and others on this list champion. why don't you just take your friends and leave us Anthroposophists alone until you all know enough to write correctly about what Theosophy is and what Hinduism is and what Anthroposophy is and what voodoo is?  we'll help you if you ask, but do you think it's fair for you to damn us without knowing what you're doing or saying? as i already said: Anthroposophy is the most difficult way of all, and those too lazy to know what it's about don't even know enough to criticize it.
         
        gq
        ---
        Because I am able to include AP and other spiritual perspectives within myself and not get rattled, defensive, or insecure. Utimately, its our own experience of the world not AP this is the "truth".  If one does their homework, which I have done (and do not want to duplicate this from several years ago), for every declarative statement in AP, one can find an opposite or at least something that points in another direction (or at least is confusing). You and others cannot have it both ways. Philosophy of Freedom is the way to intellectual and psyhcological truth- no, we better add Knowledge of Higher Worlds for moral development and clairvoyant insight; oops, we need some devotional work, so we better study the Gospel lectures and pray; but we need to study Buddhism now to understand Christianity since Christianity is more complex than meets the eye; now wait a second, now there are two Jesus-es not one; a new educational model is needed but we cannot understand the basic pedagogy e.g the Study of Man or why some temperments do not match the normal; study nature "spiritually" but don't leave out Calendar of the Soul so one can sense the weekly cycle; master the material sciences and education in addition to AP but don't discuss the inconsistencies. Pleeeeease. Help.
         
        The point is: AP is an evolving perspective not a static one. It does not contain all there is to know but others may, just may, be able to add something to it or even correct some misunderstandings like race, culture, after death conditions, and evolution. If one is afraid that a few tattered threads will unravel the entire tapestry, we have a real problem. I don't. I use what I can and augment AP with cross study and other sources to make it stronger not insular. When I spoke about near death experiences in front of a medical group some years ago, do you think I could have spoken directly from AP sources?. I would have lost the audience in 10 minutes if I used Steiner only. I used direct source materials from the medical literature to serve as a foundation and then related this to a deeper understanding that Steiner offers in the context of the Wisdom Tradition and meditation. It may not have have been "AP" pure and complex but at least they were encouraged to look at again or for the first time.   I am interested in solutions that open doors not a system that restricts those interested from entering if they do not have the right "key".
        --
         
        Jeff
         
        Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 7:03 PM
        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] A Modern Spiritual Path [was: Light on the Path - A universal question]


        From: "Pacbay"
         
        ----- >> To call Theosophists "nutty" and to say this work is "backward and Eastern" is a harsh judgment coming strictly from one person's evaluation and perspective of AP. I shudder to think what judgmental "label" Theosophists place upon APS or from the world at large for that matter...

        I am the one who first called theosophists nutty. when dr starman replied he did so at the level which i had initially established and i would ask those who object to hearing the truth to blame me, not dr starman. theosophy IS backward and eastern and none of what i said then or now is criticism: it is truth. Steiner is much more difficult to understand than any other path, therefore it is easy to see laziness is the major cause of the harsh criticisms and distortions of his teachings. those who have ears will hear and those who have eyes will see, but not those who play around talking about stuff they don't know anything about; they are blind, deaf and dumb.

        gq

         

        gq

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      • Pacbay
        Okay. The gauntlet is down. Every AP who chooses, please explain in brief, what is an Anthroposophist? Steiner quotes okay. JLA ... From: Guam Quackers To:
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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          Okay. The gauntlet is down. Every AP who chooses, please explain in brief, what is an Anthroposophist?
           
          Steiner quotes okay.
           
          JLA
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 4:59 PM
          Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] A Modern Spiritual Path [was: Light on the Path - A universal question]


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Joel Wendt <hermit@...>
          > On Tue, 2002-12-31 at 18:52, Guam Quackers wrote:
          >  why don't you just take your friends and leave us Anthroposophists
          > alone until you all know enough to write correctly about what Theosophy
          > is and what Hinduism is and what Anthroposophy is and what voodoo is?
          > we'll help you if you ask,
          >
          > I'm asking...What is Anthroposophy?  And, what makes your view of it the
          > standard by which other views are to be judged?
          >
          > curious regards,
          > joel

          as you yourself more than once informed us, joel, you have studied very little of steiner's works. my view of anthroposophy is the same as steiner's view, and that's the standard by which other views are to be judged.

          gq
          >

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        • elaineupton2001 <elaineupton@hotmail.com>
          Hello all of this rather ragged thread, IN an attempt, i believe, to bring some clarity to the discussion of ... brief, what is an Anthroposophist? ... Thanks,
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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            Hello all of this rather ragged thread,

            IN an attempt, i believe, to bring some clarity to the discussion of
            "the" path or "a" path, Jeff writes and asks:

            > Okay. The gauntlet is down. Every AP who chooses, please explain in
            brief, what is an Anthroposophist?
            >
            > Steiner quotes okay.
            >
            > JLA

            Thanks, Jeff. I am not sure I care to run a gauntlet, but I find your
            question important. I suppose there will be as many different answers
            to "what is an anthroposophist" as there are people here. I would
            tend to listen to those who have much experience in committed study
            of Steiner and students of steiner, and those who answer this
            question based on dilletantism (lack of commitment to the work of
            Steiner) I would tend to ignore.

            My own answer is not a simple one (maybe if I were wiser the answer
            would be simple--smile). My own answer is also incomplete, and is
            evolving. Just these past nights (and as the clock struck 12 January
            1, 2003), I was reading from STeiner how since the famous Christmas
            Conference (1925) he united his personal karma with that of the
            Anthroposophic Society (when he became President) and that he also
            said that the Anthroposophic *Movement* from thenceforth could no
            longer be separated from the Anthroposophic *Society*. This has been
            a sticky point for many. In this vein, Steiner also speaks of the
            being of Anthroposophia (the latest and most significant
            manifestation of the being who was Mary-Sophia and later Phil-Sophia
            in the Greek period of the Intellectual Soul). Steiner says that in
            the *Movement* (and thus in the Society?), we are a small group at
            first, and that it is important that in all we do we call upon she
            who is a real, living Being, Anthroposophia. A real living being,
            manifest and re-born in the Spiritual Hierarchies since the turn of
            the 18-19th century. We must, he says, must call upon her and seek
            her guidance in all we do. She will answer us as from our deep inner
            being, as ourselves, our true selves.

            I'd say that for me an Anthroposophist is one who calls upon and
            lives intimately with the being, the living being, Anthroposophia.
            For guidance, we can study Steiner (not blindly, but with loving
            questions), and Steiner's work (flawed perhaps in some cases, but
            overall deeply rich) helps us learn more of how to listen for
            Anthroposophia, and she is the bearer of the Etheric Christ. She is
            that Wisdom within us--*within us*--the Wisdom within, the Divine
            Feminine, who with The Father, works, and she bears the Etheric
            Christ, the Christ manifest in our Time...and the Christ whom Michael
            serves. There are big questions of evolution, race, time, nation,
            geography, cosmic events. These are the ones that Anthroposophia
            helps us understand and work rightly with. Steiner's work is most
            often an immensely helpful companion and guide.

            This is how I see myself, imperfectly as yet, as an Anthroposophist...

            Blessings,
            elaine
          • Br. Ron
            Okay. The gauntlet is down. Every AP who chooses, please explain in brief, what is an Anthroposophist? Steiner quotes okay. JLA It is someone who finds
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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              Okay. The gauntlet is down. Every AP who chooses, please explain in brief, what is an Anthroposophist?
               
              Steiner quotes okay.
               
              JLA
               
               
               
               
               
              It is someone who finds strength in identifying with a group...
              nothing more, nothing less. (Which must ultimately put them at
              odds with Anthroposophy itself)
               
              If Anthroposophy is Steiner's art of finding freedom through the
              process of individualizing, the term "Anthroposophist" must be technically, an oxymoron.
               
              BR
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
            • 888 <fireofthe12@yahoo.com.au>
              Hi Jeff, ... One thing s for sure, it s not a person who says I believe everything Rudolf Steiner said . That is the kind of Guru complex he wanted to avoid.
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                Hi Jeff,
                > Okay. The gauntlet is down. Every AP who chooses, please explain in
                >brief, what is an Anthroposophist?

                One thing's for sure, it's not a person who says "I believe
                everything Rudolf Steiner said". That is the kind of Guru complex he
                wanted to avoid. His desire would be that students think for
                themselves. If one follows the above statment one would have to
                define anthroposophy as "what Rudolf Steiner said". That's how some
                theosophists define theosophy- "what Blavatsky said".

                To define an anthroposophist you'd have to define anthroposophy- it's
                not the kind of word a marketer would choose is it? (Aren't you in
                marketing Jeff?)

                There are many definitions of anthroposophy I've seen over the years-
                things like "Christian yoga after the coming of Michael", "the Wisdom
                in Man". But perhaps the best one is to be found in the "Awakening to
                Community" lectures. I'll have to hunt it out later, but it has to do
                with the development of the Consciousness Soul. The anthroposophist
                is one who strives to work out of the Consciousness Soul. That is at
                least one of the qualities of an real anthroposophist.

                Of course, then one must ask what exactly is this Consciousness Soul.
                Bradford has put up some ideas on the Intellectual or Mind Soul, but
                I've never seen a lot of clear ideas on the Consciousness Soul. This
                is surprising considering how much it's talked about.

                Happy New Year,
                Bruce
              • SRC
                ... I m sympathetic to your point of view. I style myself as one who is in love with the Ideal of Freedom. The part of it is one of those messy things
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                  Dear Ron:

                  --- "Br. Ron" <rlloyd@...> wrote:

                  > It is someone who finds strength in identifying with a group...
                  > nothing more, nothing less. (Which must ultimately put them at
                  > odds with Anthroposophy itself)
                  >
                  > If Anthroposophy is Steiner's art of finding freedom through the
                  > process of individualizing, the term "Anthroposophist" must be
                  > technically, an oxymoron.


                  I'm sympathetic to your point of view.

                  I style myself as one who is in love with the Ideal of Freedom. The <ist>
                  part of it is one of those messy things that is one of those inevitable
                  and necessary things that happens in the world of Form, and I try and stay
                  as clear about that as possible.
                  It doesn't bug me as much as it used to.

                  Oxymoronically yours,

                  Stephen



                  =====
                  Dear Lord, please help me to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

                  "The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed."
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                • Joel Wendt
                  ... Anthroposophy is a path of cognition from the spiritual in man to the Spiritual in the Cosmos First Leading Thought. Some translations (George Adam s
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                    On Thu, 2003-01-02 at 17:21, 888 wrote:

                    > There are many definitions of anthroposophy I've seen over the years-
                    > things like "Christian yoga after the coming of Michael", "the Wisdom
                    > in Man". But perhaps the best one is to be found in the "Awakening to
                    > Community" lectures. I'll have to hunt it out later, but it has to do
                    > with the development of the Consciousness Soul. The anthroposophist
                    > is one who strives to work out of the Consciousness Soul. That is at
                    > least one of the qualities of an real anthroposophist.

                    "Anthroposophy is a path of cognition from the spiritual in man to the
                    Spiritual in the Cosmos" First Leading Thought. Some translations
                    (George Adam's for example) use the term "knowledge" instead of
                    "cognition", but the German term is erkennen or erkentnis (sorry about
                    the spelling). The problem, as it was explained to me, is that English
                    speakers tend to think of "knowledge" as a kind of thing which one can
                    receive passively, like through reading a book (thus the love of
                    practitioners of Steinerism for the lecture cycles), while "cognition"
                    is "active thinking", or as I have come to like to express it "will in
                    thinking". Our Italian friend, Andrea, likes to talk about the
                    "concentration", which is how Kuhlewind also speaks of it. For
                    Americans, we probably need to go to Emerson (see my essay "discovering
                    individual insight" which draws Steiner and Emerson together in a
                    practical (pragmatic way) at http://ipwebdev.com/hermit/stgfr9.html )


                    >
                    > Of course, then one must ask what exactly is this Consciousness Soul.
                    > Bradford has put up some ideas on the Intellectual or Mind Soul, but
                    > I've never seen a lot of clear ideas on the Consciousness Soul. This
                    > is surprising considering how much it's talked about.

                    Bruce, see my discussion with Br. Ron, also quoted in brief here:
                    "This age is not about developing visionary powers, but about unfolding
                    individual moral authority through learning to know the good and the
                    true with the own thinking activity (remember Steiner fans, what the
                    good doctor said about three steps in the moral for each step on the
                    path to initiation). We incarnate in this most material of ages for
                    just this purpose - we need the rigid structure, and all its
                    difficulties, to find our own "I am" as the ground of moral activity
                    This accomplishment then becomes an eternal aspect of the "I am" that
                    can be carried forward into the next incarnations. All the rest, all
                    the intellectual concepts of esoterics and spiritual this and that, is
                    superfluous. As Stephen Clarke and I agreed, its all about character,
                    which is of course what one finds so admirable and powerful in regard to
                    native American spirituality. First you get character, then you study
                    the "knowledge" in the mysteries (not the other way around, which so
                    many members of the steinerism movement seem to be tripping on)."

                    For the Steiner fans, here is the quote from Theosophy:
                    "By causing the self-existent true and good to come to life in his inner
                    being, the human being raises himself above the mere sentient-soul. A
                    light is kindled in her which is imperishable. In so far as the soul
                    lives in this light, she is a participant in the eternal. With the
                    eternal she unites her own existence. What the soul carries within
                    herself of the true and the good is immortal in her. Let us call that
                    which shines forth in the soul as eternal, the consciousness-soul."

                    Of course, the trick is to know how to do this, how to "cause" the
                    self-existent true and good to come to life in our inner being.

                    warm regards,
                    joel
                  • Pacbay
                    Br. Ron, There must be more to an AP characterization than this. Come on now. Jeff It is someone who finds strength in identifying with a group... nothing
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                      Br. Ron,
                       
                      There must be more to an AP characterization than this. Come on now.
                       
                      Jeff
                      It is someone who finds strength in identifying with a group...
                      nothing more, nothing less. (Which must ultimately put them at
                      odds with Anthroposophy itself)
                       
                      If Anthroposophy is Steiner's art of finding freedom through the
                      process of individualizing, the term "Anthroposophist" must be technically, an oxymoron.
                       
                      BR
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       


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                    • Br. Ron
                      ... Actully not, Jeff. I am supremely taken by the pearls of Steiner and Anthroposophy but those who consider themselves Anthroposophists generally bore me
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 3, 2003
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                        >Br. Ron,
                         
                        >There must be more to an AP characterization than this. Come on now.
                         
                        >Jeff
                         
                        Actully not, Jeff. I am supremely taken by the pearls of Steiner
                        and Anthroposophy but those who consider themselves "Anthroposophists"
                        generally bore me to tears. (present company excluded of course :-)
                         
                         
                        BR
                         
                         
                        It is someone who finds strength in identifying with a group...
                        nothing more, nothing less. (Which must ultimately put them at
                        odds with Anthroposophy itself)
                         
                        If Anthroposophy is Steiner's art of finding freedom through the
                        process of individualizing, the term "Anthroposophist" must be technically, an oxymoron.
                         
                        BR
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         


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                      • Pacbay
                        What bores some, brings up anger and heat in others. When younger (early 20 s) I was in a similar position until I was taken to the shed about dogma,
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 4, 2003
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                          What bores some, brings up anger  and heat in  others. When younger (early 20's) I was in a similar position until I was taken to the "shed"
                          about dogma, elitism, and false facades of belief. If someone is truly committed to something, as Bucky Fuller, said, they could throw away all the books and start fresh with little or not remorse or collapse of self certainty. I doubt several here could do that.
                           
                          Jeff
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Br. Ron
                          Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 1:42 AM
                          Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] A Modern Spiritual Path [was: Light on the Path - A universal question]

                           

                          >Br. Ron,
                           
                          >There must be more to an AP characterization than this. Come on now.
                           
                          >Jeff
                           
                          Actully not, Jeff. I am supremely taken by the pearls of Steiner
                          and Anthroposophy but those who consider themselves "Anthroposophists"
                          generally bore me to tears. (present company excluded of course :-)
                           
                           
                          BR
                           
                           
                          It is someone who finds strength in identifying with a group...
                          nothing more, nothing less. (Which must ultimately put them at
                          odds with Anthroposophy itself)
                           
                          If Anthroposophy is Steiner's art of finding freedom through the
                          process of individualizing, the term "Anthroposophist" must be technically, an oxymoron.
                           
                          BR
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           


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                        • Br. Ron
                          Yes Jeff, I agree. I think what escapes most folks is that my I AM is the final and only arbitor of my Truth. I don t care if a full blown incarnation of the
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 4, 2003
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                            Yes Jeff, I agree.
                             
                            I think what escapes most folks is that my 'I AM' is the final and only
                            arbitor of my Truth.
                             
                            I don't care if a full blown incarnation of the Solar Logos came up
                            and told me something, it is only true for me... if it's true for me.
                             
                            That's why it is so difficult to align with a movement or
                            organized dogma...because there is nobody that I believe
                            wholly and unconditionally. There is ALWAYS a caveat
                            of some sort.
                             
                            As much as I generally love Steiner, there are some things that he
                            said that are flat out contradictory...and some things that (to me)
                            seem to be naught but plain BS.
                             
                            So until Michael himself taps me on the shoulder, I trust only that
                            which resides within my Holy of Holies.
                             
                            But that doesn't mean that AP isn't a supremely potent means
                            for helping to uncover the 'once and future' Being I have come to
                            know as my Sacred Sovereign Self.
                             
                             
                            Love
                             
                            BR
                             
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Pacbay
                            Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 11:13 AM
                            Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] A Modern Spiritual Path [was: Light on the Path - A universal question]

                            What bores some, brings up anger  and heat in  others. When younger (early 20's) I was in a similar position until I was taken to the "shed"
                            about dogma, elitism, and false facades of belief. If someone is truly committed to something, as Bucky Fuller, said, they could throw away all the books and start fresh with little or not remorse or collapse of self certainty. I doubt several here could do that.
                             
                            Jeff
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Br. Ron
                            Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 1:42 AM
                            Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] A Modern Spiritual Path [was: Light on the Path - A universal question]

                             

                            >Br. Ron,
                             
                            >There must be more to an AP characterization than this. Come on now.
                             
                            >Jeff
                             
                            Actully not, Jeff. I am supremely taken by the pearls of Steiner
                            and Anthroposophy but those who consider themselves "Anthroposophists"
                            generally bore me to tears. (present company excluded of course :-)
                             
                             
                            BR
                             
                             
                            It is someone who finds strength in identifying with a group...
                            nothing more, nothing less. (Which must ultimately put them at
                            odds with Anthroposophy itself)
                             
                            If Anthroposophy is Steiner's art of finding freedom through the
                            process of individualizing, the term "Anthroposophist" must be technically, an oxymoron.
                             
                            BR
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             


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                          • Pacbay
                            I could not have said more clearly. Jeff ... From: Br. Ron To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 11:35 AM Subject: Re:
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jan 4, 2003
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                              I could not have said more clearly.
                               
                              Jeff
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Br. Ron
                              Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 11:35 AM
                              Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] A Modern Spiritual Path [was: Light on the Path - A universal question]

                              Yes Jeff, I agree.
                               
                              I think what escapes most folks is that my 'I AM' is the final and only
                              arbitor of my Truth.
                               
                              I don't care if a full blown incarnation of the Solar Logos came up
                              and told me something, it is only true for me... if it's true for me.
                               
                              That's why it is so difficult to align with a movement or
                              organized dogma...because there is nobody that I believe
                              wholly and unconditionally. There is ALWAYS a caveat
                              of some sort.
                               
                              As much as I generally love Steiner, there are some things that he
                              said that are flat out contradictory...and some things that (to me)
                              seem to be naught but plain BS.
                               
                              So until Michael himself taps me on the shoulder, I trust only that
                              which resides within my Holy of Holies.
                               
                              But that doesn't mean that AP isn't a supremely potent means
                              for helping to uncover the 'once and future' Being I have come to
                              know as my Sacred Sovereign Self.
                               
                               
                              Love
                               
                              BR
                               
                               
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Pacbay
                              Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 11:13 AM
                              Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] A Modern Spiritual Path [was: Light on the Path - A universal question]

                              What bores some, brings up anger  and heat in  others. When younger (early 20's) I was in a similar position until I was taken to the "shed"
                              about dogma, elitism, and false facades of belief. If someone is truly committed to something, as Bucky Fuller, said, they could throw away all the books and start fresh with little or not remorse or collapse of self certainty. I doubt several here could do that.
                               
                              Jeff
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Br. Ron
                              Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 1:42 AM
                              Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] A Modern Spiritual Path [was: Light on the Path - A universal question]

                               

                              >Br. Ron,
                               
                              >There must be more to an AP characterization than this. Come on now.
                               
                              >Jeff
                               
                              Actully not, Jeff. I am supremely taken by the pearls of Steiner
                              and Anthroposophy but those who consider themselves "Anthroposophists"
                              generally bore me to tears. (present company excluded of course :-)
                               
                               
                              BR
                               
                               
                              It is someone who finds strength in identifying with a group...
                              nothing more, nothing less. (Which must ultimately put them at
                              odds with Anthroposophy itself)
                               
                              If Anthroposophy is Steiner's art of finding freedom through the
                              process of individualizing, the term "Anthroposophist" must be technically, an oxymoron.
                               
                              BR
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               


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                            • 888 <fireofthe12@yahoo.com.au>
                              ... the ... Here is Alfred Meebold s translation: Anthroposophy is a path of knowledge which would lead the spiritual in man to the spiritual in the Universe.
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jan 19, 2003
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                                > "Anthroposophy is a path of cognition from the spiritual in man to
                                the
                                > Spiritual in the Cosmos" First Leading Thought.
                                Here is Alfred Meebold's translation:
                                Anthroposophy is a path of knowledge which would lead the spiritual
                                in man to the spiritual in the Universe. It appears in men as a need
                                of the heart and feeling. It must find its justification in that it
                                can afford satisfaction to this need. Only he can acknowledge
                                Anthroposophy who finds in it what he must seek out of his Gemut.
                                Hence only those men can be called Anthroposophists who feel certain
                                questions as to the nature of man and the world as life necessities
                                in the same way as one feels hunger and thirst.

                                > For the Steiner fans, here is the quote from Theosophy:
                                > "By causing the self-existent true and good to come to life in his
                                inner
                                > being, the human being raises himself above the mere sentient-
                                soul. A
                                > light is kindled in her which is imperishable. In so far as the
                                soul
                                > lives in this light, she is a participant in the eternal. With the
                                > eternal she unites her own existence. What the soul carries within
                                > herself of the true and the good is immortal in her. Let us call
                                that
                                > which shines forth in the soul as eternal, the consciousness-soul."
                                >


                                Yes but there is more to it than that, isn't there? You see in the
                                above the similarity to the first leading thought. The "true and the
                                good" the "eternal" is God (attributes of God), ie the spiritual in
                                Man which leads to the spiritual in the Universe (God).

                                Best Regards,
                                Bruce
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