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Question on Another Two Dates/Barry

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  • Bradford Riley
    From: bdfarm03 ... Bradford comments; I certainly know that my dear friend Tom Mellett can nail the dates for you.
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 2, 2003
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      From: "bdfarm03 <bdfarm03@...>" <bdfarm03@...>
      >the Magi
      >Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:57:59 -0000
      >--- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Bradford Riley"
      ><holderlin66@h...> wrote:
      >>Did Steiner mention the dates of the Exodus from Egypt, and the Return
      >from the Babylonian Captivity? I ask because the traditional date of
      >1440-ish BCE with Ramses as Pharaoh was a time of peace and plenty,
      >not violence and death. (I realise the plagues etc. were imaginations
      >of loss that tore into the Egyptians' souls but there may have been
      >some external counterpart to the inner tensions.)
      >Barry, a BD Farmer

      Bradford comments;

      I certainly know that my dear friend Tom Mellett can nail the dates for you.
      But as to the mirroring of Egyptian issues in our time, we have research to
      the effect that the 3rd Epoch of culture is being repeated in the American
      Fifth Epoch of culture, ours. This has a great deal to do with destroying
      the Native American Folk and Regional spirits in a Holocaust in order to
      make way for what the Founding Fathers brought in as the Egyptian Karma -
      The many Pyramids of Power - The AMWAY club of Materialism or the slowly
      growing Rich on the shoulders of the many poor.

      But this Ancient Egypt Spirt runs deeper. It runs into the Plagues that you
      mentioned. Now the manipulation of Plagues have become the new game in town.
      The echo of the ancient Plagues that hit Egypt and the current "biological
      warfare" terminology is the rising of the Plagues again, only in an
      unconscious model that draws us back to the old Egyptian Gods. I will give
      you an example from Steiner in a second, but I first want to discuss the
      matter of Vast Archangelic and Folk Spirits and the requirement, since the
      Christ Event, and in particular, the fact that the Michael School has handed
      this information over to mankind, MEN - HUMANITY are now required, through
      our conscious moral actions, to bring a Folk or backward Archangelic Spirit,
      that hovers over the land, up to Speed. In other words, the Founding Fathers
      called forth a "New Nation" however they called forth the old gods of Egypt
      into the American unconscious stream of intelligence. This is big and is
      touched on in the book, "American Gods" by Neil Gaiman.

      We can go into the Sports Mascots and compare the Egyptian Gods with their
      animal and Zodical as well as elemental associations. We can understand the
      Ka and the CAR that Henry Ford - former Egyptian Incarnation - brought out
      as the Shell, the Vehicle in which the Ego drives - as a shell form. We can
      speak about Kepler and his former Incarnation in the Egyptian culture and we
      can see how NASA has let the old Animal Form Star Gods fall away into
      pockets of Sports Mascots and sleeping, and suffering in the unconscious
      darkness of the Sentient Soul substance of Americans. We can build a very
      good case that we are acting like Idiots in relation to the education of the
      Human Race that Lessing once hinted at. Here are some, blatantly unconscious
      and devious actions, recently related by Andrea of Italy.

      Andrea wrote;

      This day has to be reminded as the "day of denial".

      The WTO under the powerful pressures of the "Seven Big Pharma Sisters" did
      refuse to help Africa and the Third World by the concession of a lower price
      for anti AIDS,Malaria and Tubercolosis remedies . They need before
      everything else "to save the higher profit performance " of their
      corp.finance organizations.

      Here we are able to see- as easily as for the 3rd Epoch Symbols of
      Mr:Poinndexter newCEKA- how the Beast's marching is becoming clearly
      perceivable, not only for the Michael School students.

      It happens so also because the Beast is sure that there'll be worldwide the
      guys able to justify such a planned Holocaust by the means of "freedom in
      economy and finance ": they are the same- also among the so called
      "spiritualists"( I don't want to use the word "anthroposophists" for them)
      unable to grasp the multifaceted face of the Evil so they're ready to scream
      "kill Saddam and everything will be OK".

      If you listen carefully you will be able to hear the horrible kamaloca
      laughter of Adolph,Heinrich and Reinhardt, who are able to think that, to
      the end, THEY were the actual winners of the WWII.....



      Steiner got into it a little but the fact that we are dealing with AIDS, and
      EBOLA and SMALLPOX vaccinations and manmade epidemics and enhanced lab based
      bio-warfare is a direct research window to ancient Egypt that is used
      completely wrong. The Vaccinations that will be required, as a sort of echo
      of the horror of Egypt and the Plagues, catching the echo in the Incarnated
      Soul substance of America, is really some one in think tanks actually asking
      the same question you did at the top of this post. We are not the only ones
      who know about the Rhythms of Egypt to America and the Platonic Rhythms. The
      forces that want humanity to remain unconscious are doing a fine job of
      using the negative aspects of the Archangelic Folk Karma from the 3rd epoch,
      before the Christ Being and the miracles arrived. It is their mission to
      avoid the Christ Being and keep the Folk Substance of America unconscious.
      Warning Will Robinson!!!! The reason for doing this is that humanity will
      not develop beyond Intellectual Soul capacity, and develop at best, only
      fragments of Jungian Consciousness Soul insights, instead of the full impact
      of Michael School Intelligence. Preventing the Spirit Self, Life Spirit and
      Spirit Man from arising out of our efforts, also thwarts the development of
      the giant lumbering Egyptian Backward Archangel who has sought to develop
      into a Christ imbued Time Spirit ---- All egregorial and Folk Pockets are
      seeking to develop into functional healthy Time Beings etc.. but humanity
      can allow so many back door Beings in that THEIR DEVELOPMENT can remain


      "But we can go still further. From the standpoint of Spiritual Science we
      can truly assert that most people to-day are blind when they consider world
      evolution and human life. These similarities, these repetitions, these
      cyclic lives can be followed even in their details. If we take a certain
      moment in human evolution, say for instance the year 747 B.C. we shall find
      that it constitutes a sort of �Hypomochlion,� a kind of zero-point, and that
      what lies before and after this point corresponds in quite a definite way.
      We may go back to an epoch of the Egyptian evolution, and there we find
      certain ritualistic ordinances and commands which appeared as given by the
      gods. And this they actually were. These ordinances related to certain
      ablutions which the Egyptians had to perform by day. They were regulated by
      custom and by certain ritualistic prescriptions, and the Egyptians believed
      that they could only live in the manner desired by the gods, if on this or
      that day they were to undertake a certain number of ablutions. This was a
      command of the gods, that found expression in a certain cult of cleanliness,
      and if in the interim we encounter a period somewhat less clean, we now
      again, in our own period, encounter hygienic measures such as are given to
      humanity for materialistic reasons.

      "Here we see a repetition of what was lost at a corresponding period in
      Egypt. The fulfilment of what happened earlier is represented in the general
      karma in a most remarkable manner. Only the general character is always
      different. Kepler in his Egyptian incarnation had directed his gaze up to
      the starry sky, and what that individuality there perceived, was expressed
      in the great spiritual truths of Egyptian astrology. In his reincarnation
      during that period of materialistic aims, the same individuality expressed
      these facts in a manner corresponding with our period, in his three
      materialistically coloured �Kepler laws.� In ancient Egypt the laws of
      cleanliness were laws of Divine revelation. The Egyptian believed that he
      was fulfilling his duty to humanity by caring for his particular cleanliness
      at every opportunity. This preoccupation for cleanliness comes to the fore
      again today, but under the influence of a mentality which is entirely

      "Modern man does not think that he is serving the gods when he is obeying
      such rules, but that he is serving himself. It is nevertheless a
      reappearance of what went before. Thus all things are in a certain way
      cyclically fulfilled. And now we begin to understand that the matters that
      we summarised last time in a contradiction, are not as simple as one is
      inclined to suppose. If at a certain period people were not able to conceive
      certain measures against epidemics, these were times at which men could not
      do so because, according to the general wise world plan, the epidemics had
      to take effect in order to give human souls an opportunity of balancing what
      had been effected through the ahrimanic influence and certain earlier
      luciferic influences.

      "If other conditions are now being brought about, these too are subject to
      certain great karmic laws. So we see that these matters cannot be regarded
      superficially. How does this agree with our statement that if someone seeks
      an opportunity of being infected in an epidemic, this is the result of the
      necessary reaction against an earlier karmic cause. Have we the right now to
      take hygienic or other measures? This is a profound question, and we must
      begin by collecting the necessary material for replying to it. We must
      understand that where the luciferic and ahrimanic principles are
      co-operating, whether concurrently or over longer periods, or where they are
      working against each other, there are manifested certain complications in
      human life. These complications appear under forms so diverse that we never
      see two identical cases.

      "If we study human life, however, we shall find our way in the following
      manner: if in a particular case we try to discover the combined activity of
      Lucifer and Ahriman, we shall always find a thread by which this connection
      will become clear. We must discriminate clearly between internal and
      external man. Even today we had to differentiate sharply between that which
      is expressed by the rational soul, and that which appears within the etheric
      body as a result of the rational soul. We must examine the continuity in
      which karma is accomplished, and we must at the same time understand that we
      have still the possibility of influencing our inner being by means of
      certain karmic influences, so that in future a new karmic compensation may
      be prepared by the inner being. For this reason, it is possible for a being
      in an earlier life to have experienced sensations, feelings and so forth
      that have developed in him a want of love towards his fellow-creatures. Let
      us suppose, for instance, that he had passed through an experience whereby
      through karmic action he had become uncharitable. It may well happen that
      we, following for a time a downward grade, beget evil. We at first descend
      in order to develop the contrary impetus that will cause us to re-ascend.
      Let us suppose that a being, by yielding to certain influences, tends
      towards uncharitableness. This uncharitableness will in a later life appear
      as karmic result, and will develop inner forces in his organism.

      "We can then act in two ways � consciously, or else unconsciously. In our
      epoch we have not progressed so far as to do it consciously. With such a
      person we can take precautions by which these characteristics in his
      organism, derived from uncharitableness, will be driven out and we may act
      in such a way that the effect that is expressed in the external organism as
      a lack of charity will be counteracted. By these means, however, the soul
      will not be cleansed of all uncharitableness, but only the external organ of
      uncharitableness will have been expelled. For if we do nothing further, we
      shall have accomplished only half of our task, perhaps even nothing at all.
      We may perhaps have helped this person physically, externally, but we shall
      not have given succour to his soul. Now that the physical expression of
      uncharitableness has been removed he will not be able to give expression to
      this uncharitableness, but he will have to retain it within his inner
      organism until a future incarnation.

      "Let us suppose that a great number of people, because of uncharitableness,
      had been impelled to absorb certain infectious germs, so that they succumbed
      to an epidemic. Let us further suppose we were in a position to protect them
      from this epidemic. We should in such a case preserve the physical body from
      the effects of uncharitableness, but we should not have removed the inner
      tendency towards uncharitableness. The case might be such that, in removing
      the external expression of uncharitableness, we should undertake the duty of
      influencing the soul also in such a way as to remove from it the tendency
      towards a lack of charity. The organic expression of uncharitableness is
      killed in the most complete sense, in the external bodily sense, by
      vaccination against smallpox.

      "There, for instance, the following becomes manifest, and has been
      investigated by Spiritual Science. In one period of civilisation, when there
      prevailed a general tendency to develop a higher degree of egotism, and
      uncharitableness, smallpox made its appearance. Such is the fact. In
      anthroposophy it is our bounden duty to give expression to the truth. Now it
      will be clear why in our period the protection of vaccination appeared. We
      also understand why, among the best minds of our period, there exists a kind
      of aversion to vaccination. This aversion corresponds to something within,
      and is the external expression of an inner reality.

      "So if on the one hand we destroy the physical expression of a previous
      fault, we should, on the other hand, undertake the duty of transforming the
      materialistic character of such a person by means of a corresponding
      spiritual education. This would constitute the indispensable counterpart
      without which we are performing only half our task. We are merely
      accomplishing something to which the person in question will himself have to
      produce a counterpart in a later incarnation. If we destroy the
      susceptibility to smallpox, we are concentrating only on the external side
      of karmic activity.

      "If on the one side we go in for hygiene, it is necessary that on the other
      we should feel it our duty to contribute to the person whose organism has
      been so transformed, something also for the good of his soul. Vaccination
      will not be harmful if, subsequent to vaccination, the person receives a
      spiritual education. If we concentrate upon one side only and lay no
      emphasis upon the other, we weigh down the balance unevenly.

      "This is really what is felt in those circles which maintain that where
      hygienic measures go too far, only weak natures will be propagated. This of
      course is not justifiable, but we see how essential it is that we should not
      undertake one task without the other. Here we approach an important law of
      human evolution which acts so that the external and the internal must always
      be counter-balanced, and that it is not permissible to act with regard to
      the one only, leaving the other out of consideration. We here get a glimpse
      of an important relationship, and yet we have not even arrived at the
      significance of the question: �What is the relationship between hygiene and
      karma?� As we shall see, the answer to this question will lead us still
      further into the depths of karma, and we shall further see that there exist
      karmic relationships between man's birth and death. In addition, other
      personalities influence a human life, and man's free will and karma are in
      harmony. "



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    • Barry Drinsson
      ... From: bdfarm03 ... Okay, I ll rephrase that. Did Steiner name the Pharaoh of the Exodus? Once I know the name I can go some way
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 7, 2003
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        --- Bradford Riley <holderlin66@...> wrote: >
        From: "bdfarm03 <bdfarm03@...>"
        > <bdfarm03@...>
        > >the Magi
        > >Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:57:59 -0000
        > >
        > >--- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Bradford
        > Riley"
        > ><holderlin66@h...> wrote:
        > >>Did Steiner mention the dates of the Exodus from
        > Egypt, and the Return
        > >from the Babylonian Captivity? I ask because the
        > traditional date of
        > >1440-ish BCE with Ramses as Pharaoh was a time of
        > peace and plenty,
        > >not violence and death. (I realise the plagues etc.
        > were imaginations
        > >of loss that tore into the Egyptians' souls but
        > there may have been
        > >some external counterpart to the inner tensions.)
        > >
        > Bradford comments;
        > I certainly know that my dear friend Tom Mellett can
        > nail the dates for you.

        Okay, I'll rephrase that.
        Did Steiner name the Pharaoh of the Exodus?
        Once I know the name I can go some way towards dating
        the exodus from Egypt.
        (I realise the inner part of history is more important
        than the outer but just at the moment I'm focused on
        the outer.)

        Thanks, Barry

        http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
        - What's on at your local cinema?
      • bdfarm03 <bdfarm03@yahoo.com>
        ... Since alot of people here know Steiner s works it seems Steiner didn t give an indication as to the date of the Exodus, nor the name of the Pharaoh of the
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 11, 2003
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          Barry Drinsson <bdfarm03@...> wrote:
          > Did Steiner name the Pharaoh of the Exodus?

          Since alot of people here know Steiner's works it seems Steiner didn't
          give an indication as to the date of the Exodus, nor the name of the
          Pharaoh of the Oppression, but if you looked into the matter I thank

          Knowing that he confirmed 3rd April 33 as the date of the crucifixion
          is a great help so I'll just leave it at that.

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