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Re: [anthroposophy] Back to the Blacksmith

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  • Ashley Case
    Thanks for saying this, Ron: We have enough within our own borders to care for our own people s needs...that includes oil if we were to tighten our belts a
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 1, 2003
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      >
      Thanks for saying this, Ron:
       
      We have enough within our own borders to care for our
      own people's needs...that includes oil if we were to tighten
      our belts a bit.

      Can you tell me WHY more people do not think this???
       
      -------Original Message-------
       
      Date: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 08:21:56 AM
      Subject: [anthroposophy] Back to the Blacksmith
       
       
       
       
      Then there is this, from the Severity Pillar


      The metaphysics behind the legends of the Grail Knights
      are fairly obvious.

      A knight's armor has symbolic meaning extending all the way
      from the single person to nations, states and even the protective
      atmosphere of our planet.

      On a personal level, the etheric matrix is our own private armor.
      On a national level, our borders are meant to define this function.

      How does this translate to practicality?

      As an American, I figure we have over-extended ourselves.
      Our borders are more akin to Swiss cheese than the intended
      boundaries of containment.

      Isolationism isn't good, but in cases where the denizens of a
      kingdom don't like us or want us around, I'm for getting
      the hell out.

      South Korea doesn't like us. So why are we risking the lives
      of 32,000 men to hold up an ungrateful regime against their
      hungry northern counterparts? Let them follow their own folk
      spirit and become communists if that's what they want..like we
      finally did when we wised up in Vietnam.

      I have never once done a ritual or finished a gig in a room
      where my music was unwelcome...nor should we do so on
      an international level.

      "No more Mr. Nice Country"

      Let these kingdoms deal with their own enemies until such
      time as they either learn to organize the chaos or fly above it
      with their own wings. Either scenario would be productive for
      both them AND us..

      If they later find they need America's help THEN maybe we can
      reconsider...and perhaps by then they may have changed their
      convoluted views about our alleged "imperialistic intent".
      (A pickpocket looks at a saint and sees only pockets, no?)

      We have enough within our own borders to care for our
      own people's needs...that includes oil if we were to tighten
      our belts a bit.

      Time to hermetically close and seal the gap in the Faustian
      circle of international relations.




      Br. Ron


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    • Joel Wendt
      Dear Br. Ron, You sentiments below, while not novel, are nevertheless strange given that you seem to not understand at all the real consequences to the actions
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 1, 2003
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        Dear Br. Ron,

        You sentiments below, while not novel, are nevertheless strange given
        that you seem to not understand at all the real consequences to the
        actions which you suggest.

        The old saw, "no man is an island", is equally true with regard to
        nations in the world of the present. We are not only intensely
        interrelated, but these interrelations are exactly the intentions and
        wishes of the Divine within and without.

        The moral future depends upon our taking responsibility for each other
        in profound ways, and political isolationism is about as reactionary as
        one can get.

        In addition, your comparison of our national borders to the ethereal is
        also just plain silly, and shows no comprehension of the real facts of
        the ethers that Steiner and others have spend so much effort in
        developing.

        But then, maybe you were speaking in some private metaphysical
        language, and did not intend the words used to have their ordinary and
        accepted meaning.

        warm regards,
        joel



        On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 11:14, Br. Ron wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Then there is this, from the Severity Pillar
        >
        >
        > The metaphysics behind the legends of the Grail Knights
        > are fairly obvious.
        >
        > A knight's armor has symbolic meaning extending all the way
        > from the single person to nations, states and even the protective
        > atmosphere of our planet.
        >
        > On a personal level, the etheric matrix is our own private armor.
        > On a national level, our borders are meant to define this function.
        >
        > How does this translate to practicality?
        >
        > As an American, I figure we have over-extended ourselves.
        > Our borders are more akin to Swiss cheese than the intended
        > boundaries of containment.
        >
        > Isolationism isn't good, but in cases where the denizens of a
        > kingdom don't like us or want us around, I'm for getting
        > the hell out.
        >
        > South Korea doesn't like us. So why are we risking the lives
        > of 32,000 men to hold up an ungrateful regime against their
        > hungry northern counterparts? Let them follow their own folk
        > spirit and become communists if that's what they want..like we
        > finally did when we wised up in Vietnam.
        >
        > I have never once done a ritual or finished a gig in a room
        > where my music was unwelcome...nor should we do so on
        > an international level.
        >
        > "No more Mr. Nice Country"
        >
        > Let these kingdoms deal with their own enemies until such
        > time as they either learn to organize the chaos or fly above it
        > with their own wings. Either scenario would be productive for
        > both them AND us..
        >
        > If they later find they need America's help THEN maybe we can
        > reconsider...and perhaps by then they may have changed their
        > convoluted views about our alleged "imperialistic intent".
        > (A pickpocket looks at a saint and sees only pockets, no?)
        >
        > We have enough within our own borders to care for our
        > own people's needs...that includes oil if we were to tighten
        > our belts a bit.
        >
        > Time to hermetically close and seal the gap in the Faustian
        > circle of international relations.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Br. Ron
      • Br. Ron
        ... Can you tell me WHY more people do not think this??? Hi Ashley: I think at has something to do with a misplaced sense of goodness. When I was a kid there
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 1, 2003
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          ----- From: Ashley Case

          Thanks for saying this, Ron:
           
          >We have enough within our own borders to care for our
          >own people's needs...that includes oil if we were to tighten
          >our belts a bit.

           
          Can you tell me WHY more people do not think this???
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
          Hi Ashley:
           
          I think at has something to do with a misplaced sense of
          goodness.
           
          When I was a kid there was a couple of times I got involved
          when some bullies were beating up on younger, smaller kids.
          I was able to protect them..and they were happy and grateful.
           
          ...and I felt like a good person.
           
          Then several years later, I was playing a gig in Newport Oregon
          and stepped outside for some fresh air during a break.
           
          I saw this biker dude just beating the crap out of his girlfiend.
           
          In my usual attempt at chivalry I went storming over to protect
          her from his blows.
           
          All of a sudden she started screaming at me to butt out and mind
          my own business.
           
          I was stunned
           
          So, I backed off and proceeded to allow him to knock her
          from hell to breakfast. I felt highly conflicted
           
          I DIDN'T feel like a good person.
           
          This same discernment to action (or non action) must be
          incorporated with our international policies, I am convinced.
           
          We have no business interferring where we aren't wanted.
          But we have no business NOT interferring where we are
          genuinely needed, either.
           
          Love
           
          Br. Ron



        • Joel Wendt
          ... Because its ill considered Ashley, and lots of people are way more thoughtful and less reactionary. It imagines an impossible world, both in the sense of
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 1, 2003
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            On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 11:37, Ashley Case wrote:
            > Thanks for saying this, Ron:
            >
            > We have enough within our own borders to care for our
            > own people's needs...that includes oil if we were to tighten
            > our belts a bit.
            >
            > Can you tell me WHY more people do not think this???

            Because its ill considered Ashley, and lots of people are way more
            thoughtful and less reactionary. It imagines an impossible world, both
            in the sense of not really being potential, and in the sense of being
            wrong headed as a goal.

            One of the problems on this discussion list is that people wander over
            into the consideration of political and social realities, without
            understanding that the path laid out by Steiner clearly requires of us a
            transformation in our thinking before we are able to make judgments
            about earthly existence out of a real understanding.

            By habit, everyone thinks their opinion matters, but if this is going to
            be an anthroposophy list then opinion doesn't matter at all. One has to
            be able to speak from knowledge, which is quite hard to get unless one
            does a lot of related inner work.

            Even the beloved by many Dr. Starman, who claims degrees in political
            science and related fields, does not demonstrate the transformed
            thinking necessary to "perceive" the political and social phenomena of
            our time. Oh, he acts the part of a knowledgeable person, but acting is
            not knowing. As for Br. Ron, he too demonstrates frequently an
            inability to enter into the realities of the social and political worlds
            in the loving way that is necessary for true intuitions to enter into
            the soul, while dear Bradford, who seems to love everyone, needs to
            seriously study Gordienko's book with respect to our obligations to
            distinguish between the thoughts put forward by a particular
            individuality and that individuality. Loving that individuality does
            not mean accepting an erroneous thought content they have produced, in
            an environment were by agreement we are working together at spiritual
            science where the reality of Ideas is understood.

            Thoughts are deeds, and empty headed opinions are missteps we do well to
            help others overcome by confronting their ill-logic, and lack of effort
            in thinking things through.

            Consider this possibility. You wander into a surgery in process, put on
            a mask and start to offer your amateur opinions as to what should be
            done. Surgery is a highly skilled craft and art, as is working on the
            social and political in a wise (anthroposophical - wisdom of man) way,
            and its time for people to go beyond believing because they have a
            thought, it is the truth.

            Now Emerson wants us to begin with our opinions and to trust the
            thinking instinct that produces them, for this will slowly over time
            ripen into truth. In this I agree, but at the same time that doesn't
            mean to believe these opinions represent knowledge, or to fail to look
            outside ourselves to see who around us might better understand the field
            of knowledge in which we have the opinion.

            If opinions were all that wonderful, than we wouldn't even bother with
            Steiner, would we? If skills and understandings came easily to
            everyone, then we wouldn't need surgeons or mechanics or teachers or all
            manner of other artisans. Not liking something in the world is just
            that. Such a feeling does not lead to knowledge, which requires all
            manner of other soul activities to produce.

            love,
            joel
          • Br. Ron
            (Joel) ... Old news, Joel. ... Reactionary? Yeeeeooow! You have reacted here without even giving one iota of thought to what I have written. Try re-reading my
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 1, 2003
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                   (Joel)
                  > The old saw, "no man is an island", is equally true with regard to
                  > nations in the world of the present.  We are not only intensely
                 
              > interrelated, but these interrelations are exactly the intentions
              and
                  > wishes of the Divine within and without.
               
               
              Old news, Joel.

               
                  > The moral future depends upon our taking responsibility for each other
                  > in profound ways, and political isolationism is about as reactionary as
                  > one can get.
               
               
              Reactionary? Yeeeeooow! You have reacted here without even giving one iota
              of thought to what I have written.
               
              Try re-reading my post. I have already said that isolationism isn't the answer
              but that we on the other hand cannot enforce our will or "take responsibility" for
              those who do not want it. If you are going to disagree with something I say
              you best be sure that it isn't something backed up by such common sense
              as this.  Otherwise it'll jes make ya look like a fooo' 
               
               

                  > In addition, your comparison of our national borders to the ethereal is
                  > also just plain silly, and shows no comprehension of the real facts of
                  > the ethers that Steiner and others have spend so much effort in
                  > developing.
               
               
              Joel...I don't know what parts of Steiner you have (or haven't) been reading
              but the protective aura is BASIC to any kind of esoteric spiritual practice.
              A tight and unperforated etheric body is the very foundation upon which
              sane hermetics are based. 

               
                  > But then, maybe you were speaking in some private metaphysical
                  > language, and did not intend the words used to have their ordinary and
                  > accepted meaning.
               
               
              I can't argue with your apparent desire to align yourself with that which is
              'ordinary.'  But how can you expect others to support your run for the presidency
              if you haven't yet learned that creating boundaries is every bit as important
              as dissolving them?
               
              When you get these basics down get back with me and I will reconsider
              taking your political ambitions and your posts a bit more seriously.
               
               
              Until then.... (HONK  :-)
               
               
               
              LVX
               
               
               
              Br. Ron
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               

              >
              > warm regards,
              >
              joel
              >
              >
              >
              > On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 11:14, Br. Ron
              wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Then there is
              this, from the Severity Pillar
              > >
              > >
              > > The
              metaphysics behind the legends of the Grail Knights
              > > are fairly
              obvious.
              > >
              > > A knight's armor has symbolic meaning
              extending all the way
              > > from the single person to nations, states
              and even the protective
              > > atmosphere of our planet.
              > >
              > > On a personal level, the etheric matrix is our own private
              armor.
              > > On a national level, our borders are meant to define this
              function.
              > >
              > > How does this translate to
              practicality?
              > >
              > > As an American, I figure we have
              over-extended ourselves.
              > > Our borders are more akin to Swiss cheese
              than the intended
              > > boundaries of containment.
              > >
              > > Isolationism isn't good, but in cases where the denizens of a
              > >
              kingdom don't like us or want us around, I'm for getting
              > > the hell
              out.
              > >
              > > South Korea doesn't like us. So why are we
              risking the lives
              > > of 32,000 men to hold up an ungrateful regime
              against their
              > > hungry northern counterparts? Let them follow their
              own folk
              > > spirit and become communists if that's what they
              want..like we
              > > finally did when we wised up in Vietnam.
              > >
              > > I have never once done a ritual or finished a gig in a room
              > > where my music was unwelcome...nor should we do so on
              > > an international level.
              > >
              > > "No more Mr. Nice
              Country"
              > >
              > > Let these kingdoms deal with their own
              enemies until such
              > > time as they either learn to organize the chaos
              or fly above it
              > > with their own wings. Either scenario would be
              productive for
              > > both them AND us..
              > >
              > > If
              they later find they need America's help THEN maybe we can
              > >
              reconsider...and perhaps by then they may have changed their
              > >
              convoluted views about our alleged "imperialistic intent".
              > > (A
              pickpocket looks at a saint and sees only pockets, no?)
              > >
              > > We have enough within our own borders to care for our
              > > own
              people's needs...that includes oil if we were to tighten
              > > our belts
              a bit.
              > >
              > > Time to hermetically close and seal the gap in
              the Faustian
              > > circle of international relations.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Br. Ron
              >
              >
              >
              >
              href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy
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              >
              >
            • Joel Wendt
              ... Yes, you did say that, but what you described in isolationism. You used the following terms in the message: our borders , nor should we do so (be
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 2, 2003
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                On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 13:13, Br. Ron wrote:
                > > The moral future depends upon our taking responsibility for each other
                > > in profound ways, and political isolationism is about as reactionary as
                > > one can get.
                >
                >
                > Reactionary? Yeeeeooow! You have reacted here without even giving one iota
                > of thought to what I have written.
                >
                > Try re-reading my post. I have already said that isolationism isn't the answer

                Yes, you did "say" that, but what you described in isolationism. You
                used the following terms in the message: "our borders", "nor should we
                do so (be where we are unwelcome) on an international level", "let these
                kingdoms deal with their own enemies", "We have enough within our our
                borders...", and "Time to hermetically close...circle of international
                relations."

                People do that a lot - say they aren't doing something, and then go
                ahead and do it anyway - because semi-consciously they know they are
                doing it. In your case, you say you aren't being isolationist, but the
                spirit of what you advocate is.

                The world is far too closely integrated in fact for your advice to
                work. We don't have such a choice, the necessities are otherwise. This
                is why the views you actually express are reactionary (they imagine the
                present to be like a time that only existed in the past). Now I am not
                saying that the Bush II administration is acting in the wisest way, I am
                saying that what you advocate is impossible - it won't work, and in fact
                would have all manner of terrible consequences.

                I can see the emotional sense of it (screw them let the swim in their
                own juices), but nations are not individual people, and how one nation
                behaves toward another can only follow such an analogy in a very
                superficial way. Nations unfortunately have to follow not only all kinds
                of other rules in the modern world - the facts of interdependence
                require it. We are all swimming in the same sea, and what one does
                effects all.

                > but that we on the other hand cannot enforce our will or "take responsibility" for
                > those who do not want it. If you are going to disagree with something I say
                > you best be sure that it isn't something backed up by such common sense
                > as this. Otherwise it'll jes make ya look like a fooo'
                >
                >
                >
                > > In addition, your comparison of our national borders to the ethereal is
                > > also just plain silly, and shows no comprehension of the real facts of
                > > the ethers that Steiner and others have spend so much effort in
                > > developing.
                >
                >
                > Joel...I don't know what parts of Steiner you have (or haven't) been reading
                > but the protective aura is BASIC to any kind of esoteric spiritual practice.
                > A tight and unperforated etheric body is the very foundation upon which
                > sane hermetics are based.

                You said as follows: "On a personal level, the etheric matrix is our own
                private armor. On a national level, our borders are meant to define
                this function." The nature of the ethereal world has no correspondence
                to our national borders, which are clearly a convention of human
                beings. What you said above in reply again shows a lack of familiarity
                with anthroposophical teachings on the ethereal. All you have done is
                to insist that because you have gotten a certain kind of idea from some
                "esoteric spiritual practice", that this applies to the real world in
                the way you imagine. The whole point of "spiritual science", which you
                still haven't gotten, is to actual knowledge, no dreamy ideas about
                spiritual realities. Do you claim to "see" the etheric body of the
                earthly political borders of the United States? Have you a text you can
                refer to that describes such a fact?

                >
                >
                > > But then, maybe you were speaking in some private metaphysical
                > > language, and did not intend the words used to have their ordinary and
                > > accepted meaning.
                >
                >
                > I can't argue with your apparent desire to align yourself with that which is
                > 'ordinary.' But how can you expect others to support your run for the presidency
                > if you haven't yet learned that creating boundaries is every bit as important
                > as dissolving them?

                What has my political activity to do with this discussion, except to
                slide off the actual facts under consideration and introduce a red
                herring? But that aside, please describe for us how the creation of
                borders, as you seem to think applies here, works in international
                relations. You might want to accompany that discourse with examples
                from recent history, and include in those examples places where the
                border (which to you seems to mean one group having nothing to do with
                their neighbors) has a positive effect on either party or the rest of
                us.

                >
                > When you get these basics down get back with me and I will reconsider
                > taking your political ambitions and your posts a bit more seriously.
                >
                >
                > Until then.... (HONK :-)

                Yes, think of this as a joke. Don't take ideas seriously, or the modern
                world and all its problems seriously, or the future of the Republic
                seriously. Its all just a joke of the kind metaphysical and esoteric
                anyway, isn't it?

                >
                >
                >
                > LVX
                >
                >
                >
                > Br. Ron
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >
                > > warm regards,
                > > joel
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 11:14, Br. Ron wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Then there is this, from the Severity Pillar
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > The metaphysics behind the legends of the Grail Knights
                > > > are fairly obvious.
                > > >
                > > > A knight's armor has symbolic meaning extending all the way
                > > > from the single person to nations, states and even the protective
                > > > atmosphere of our planet.
                > > >
                > > > On a personal level, the etheric matrix is our own private armor.
                > > > On a national level, our borders are meant to define this function.
                > > >
                > > > How does this translate to practicality?
                > > >
                > > > As an American, I figure we have over-extended ourselves.
                > > > Our borders are more akin to Swiss cheese than the intended
                > > > boundaries of containment.
                > > >
                > > > Isolationism isn't good, but in cases where the denizens of a
                > > > kingdom don't like us or want us around, I'm for getting
                > > > the hell out.
                > > >
                > > > South Korea doesn't like us. So why are we risking the lives
                > > > of 32,000 men to hold up an ungrateful regime against their
                > > > hungry northern counterparts? Let them follow their own folk
                > > > spirit and become communists if that's what they want..like we
                > > > finally did when we wised up in Vietnam.
                > > >
                > > > I have never once done a ritual or finished a gig in a room
                > > > where my music was unwelcome...nor should we do so on
                > > > an international level.
                > > >
                > > > "No more Mr. Nice Country"
                > > >
                > > > Let these kingdoms deal with their own enemies until such
                > > > time as they either learn to organize the chaos or fly above it
                > > > with their own wings. Either scenario would be productive for
                > > > both them AND us..
                > > >
                > > > If they later find they need America's help THEN maybe we can
                > > > reconsider...and perhaps by then they may have changed their
                > > > convoluted views about our alleged "imperialistic intent".
                > > > (A pickpocket looks at a saint and sees only pockets, no?)
                > > >
                > > > We have enough within our own borders to care for our
                > > > own people's needs...that includes oil if we were to tighten
                > > > our belts a bit.
                > > >
                > > > Time to hermetically close and seal the gap in the Faustian
                > > > circle of international relations.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Br. Ron
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy
                > > Unsubscribe:
                > > anthroposophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > List owner: anthroposophy-owner@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
              • Br. Ron
                Hark! Canst thou hear it? The sound of breaking wind in yon far glen where the court hunts by moonlight, ... Really now?...Hold this envelope to thy bejeweled
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 2, 2003
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                  Hark! Canst thou hear it? The sound of breaking wind
                  in yon far glen where the court hunts by moonlight,
                  .....for Joel hath Wendt and done it again.
                   
                   
                      > In your case, you say you aren't being isolationist, but the
                      > spirit of what you advocate is.
                   
                   
                  Really now?...Hold this envelope to thy bejeweled brow and
                  tell me, oh, Kar-nak! For surely thou hast deeper insights
                  into mine own intentions than I....

                   
                      > The world is far too closely integrated in fact for your
                      > advice to work. 
                   
                   
                  But thou hast already demonstrated that thou knowest
                  nothing as to the nature of said advice.
                   
                  I already clearly stated that I wasn't an isolationist but thou
                  hast inferred that I was not telling the truth... Avast!
                   
                   
                      > I can see the emotional sense of it (screw them let
                      > the swim in their own juices), but nations are not
                      > individual people....
                   
                   
                   
                  Joel...you are a real piece. You twist my meaning in
                  a most disingenuous way. If I didn't know better I would
                  almost think that you were a politician or something.
                   
                  Here is a snip from my last post on the subject
                   
                  "We have no business interfering where we aren't wanted.
                  But we have no business NOT interfering where we are
                  genuinely needed, either."
                   
                  Does that sound 'isolationist' to you?
                  A resounding "Nay!" I should proffer!
                   
                  I am convinced that you haven't even read a single thing
                  I have posted anyway. (which is OK...just don't pretend
                  that you have, lest thou appearest as but a Richard Nixon
                  wannabe)
                   
                   
                      > You said as follows: "On a personal level, the etheric matrix is our own
                      > private armor.  On a national level, our borders are meant to define
                      > this function."  The nature of the ethereal world has no correspondence
                      > to our national borders, which are clearly a convention of human
                      > beings. 
                   
                   
                   
                  You are absolutely wrong about this and you better learn this
                  lesson well if you are going to survive the intense changes
                  at hand.  I kid you not about this, my friend.
                   
                  "As above so below," remember?
                   
                  The etheric body is, among other things, an "electro-magnetic"
                  boundary which helps to preserve one's individualized integrity.
                  It has much the same function as the ozone layer of
                  the planet which filters out destructive cosmic rays.
                   
                  National boundaries are but larger analogs of the same thing.
                  Humans are not the only entities in the universe in need of protection.
                  Nations are entities too. So are molecules, cells, planets, solar systems
                  and galaxies.
                   
                  I admit that there is a rather large spiritual movement to deceive
                  the innocent into believing these divisions of consciousness
                  shouldn't really exist, but this much I guarantee....such a belief is 
                  strictly Luciferic. 
                   
                   
                   
                      >What you said above in reply again shows a lack of familiarity
                      > with anthroposophical teachings on the ethereal. 
                   
                   
                   
                  Don't play the AP game with me, Joel.
                  I want some evidence where Rudolph Steiner 
                  contradicts one thing I have said, here.
                   
                  C'mon, ante up!
                   
                  If you are going to play 'Anthroposophical expert'
                  you best put your research where your mouth is.
                   
                  Otherwise back off... or people will more than likely confuse
                  you with Soupy Sales than a serious presidential candidate.
                   
                   
                   
                      > What has my political activity to do with this discussion, except to
                      > slide off the actual facts under consideration and introduce a red
                      > herring? 
                   
                   
                   
                  I simply mention it because your posts sound like a typical
                  knee-jerk utopian politician with a typical 'border dissolving'  
                  solution to every problem...(when at this time at least, it is the
                  exact opposite that is needed)
                   
                  All I have been able to glean from your 'solutions' are
                  political delusions of grandeur.
                   
                  C'mon Buddy....idealism is fine but let's get real, here.
                  You appear to be so far out in 'La La Land' that you even
                  make Barbara Streisand look like a Supreme Court Justice.
                   
                   
                      > > When you get these basics down get back with me and I will reconsider
                      > > taking your political ambitions and your posts a bit more seriously.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Until then.... (HONK  :-)

                      
                      > Yes, think of this as a joke.  Don't take ideas seriously, or the modern
                     
                  > world and all its problems seriously, or the future of the
                  Republic
                      > seriously. 
                   
                   
                  Oh, I take real ideas concerning our national and global well being
                  VERY seriously. But so far, I find yours to generate about the same
                  response in me as a rubber chicken in the Crock-pot.
                   
                   
                   
                  BR
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                • SRC
                  ... Dear Ron: Point of fact: the etheric is not ; quite the opposite. The electromagnetic field aroaund the body is a backfire effect
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 2, 2003
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                    Dear Ron:

                    --- "Br. Ron" <rlloyd@...> wrote:

                    > The etheric body is, among other things, an "electro-magnetic"
                    > boundary which helps to preserve one's individualized integrity.
                    > It has much the same function as the ozone layer of
                    > the planet which filters out destructive cosmic rays.


                    Dear Ron: Point of fact: the etheric is not <electro-magnetic>; quite the
                    opposite. The electromagnetic field aroaund the body is a backfire effect
                    arising from the interaction of the subtle etheric forces with the
                    obstructive nature of physical substance. The etheric forces are
                    periphery-centered, the EMFs are point-centered. That they usually occur
                    in tandem in the body is no indication that they are the same. The EMFs
                    are the Doubles of the etheric forces!

                    While the etheric may indeed have some filtering qualities, its main
                    function is to uphold the life-forces in the organism; the portion of
                    ourselves which we share in common with the plant-Kingdom.

                    One of the main faults of modern science is to conflate the subnatural and
                    the supersensible. This blind spot you do not yet see. On this point,
                    your anthroposophical theory is %100 bass-ackwards.

                    Sorry. Happy New Year. A print-out of your Salamander is posted up at
                    the changing shed of Tesuque Pueblo's sweat-lodge as of yesterday!

                    Stephen


                    =====
                    Dear Lord, please help me to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

                    "The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed."
                    - Steven Biko

                    __________________________________________________
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                  • Br. Ron
                    ... Yes, technically I agree, Steven (That s why I put quotes around the word) It s just that electromagnetic comes closest to an everyday understanding of
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 2, 2003
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                          > Dear Ron:  Point of fact: the etheric is not <electro-magnetic>; quite the
                          > opposite.  The electromagnetic field aroaund the body is a backfire effect
                          > arising from the interaction of the subtle etheric forces with the
                          > obstructive nature of physical substance.  The etheric forces are
                          > periphery-centered, the EMFs are point-centered.  That they usually occur
                          > in tandem in the body is no  indication that they are the same.  The EMFs
                          > are the Doubles of the etheric forces!
                       
                       
                      Yes, technically I agree, Steven (That's why I put "quotes"
                      around the word) It's just that "electromagnetic" comes closest to
                      an everyday understanding of the dynamics of the aura.

                       
                          > While the etheric may indeed have some filtering qualities, its main
                          > function is to uphold the life-forces in the organism; the portion of
                         
                      > ourselves which we share in common with the plant-Kingdom.
                       
                       
                      It does this by energy containment however, which is the whole crux
                      of my point.  (Bruce has posted some wonderful stuff from the Brothers
                      on 'etheric fissures' which shed a lot of light on this issue, I think)
                       
                      I have my own independent validation too, that reveals the need for
                      a tight etheric matrix, without which, we can actually open ourselves
                      up to parasitic influences.
                       
                      (Someone with even a marginally developed psychic sense can
                      'see' these little buggars attached to people's auras in some of
                      the more unsavory places where drugs and or alcohol are consumed
                      in large quantities. As a club performer, I have become quite familiar
                      with them)
                       
                       
                          > One of the main faults of modern science is to conflate the subnatural and
                          > the supersensible.  This blind spot you do not yet see.  On this point,
                          > your anthroposophical theory is %100 bass-ackwards.

                       
                      Nice try Steven. my views on this have nothing to do with 'theory.'
                      They are visual and experiential and hence non-negotiable.
                      But if it makes you feel better to parse my words for
                      the purposes of one-up-manship, you go for it. We all have our
                      needs. :-)
                       
                      Let's face it. You can't provide objective proof of your points any
                      better than I can. All you can do is say "Steiner says" but I don't
                      place any more value on his psychic revelations than I do upon
                      my own...nor should you.
                       
                      All we really do in essence is throw out our own experiences
                      and if they fit with the experiences of others, fine.
                      If they agree with Steiner's experiences, DOUBLE fine...
                      But ultimately, all we really have to discuss is our own perspectives.
                       
                       
                          > Sorry.  Happy New Year. 
                       
                       
                      Don't worry be happy.
                       
                         
                          > A print-out of your Salamander is posted up at
                          > the changing shed of Tesuque Pueblo's sweat-lodge as of yesterday!
                       
                       
                      What is this? Could it be that thou art proving a man of
                      impeccable artistic tastes after all, Stephen? I may have to
                      re-examine my initial impulses!
                       
                       
                       
                      BR
                       
                       
                       
                    • Joel Wendt
                      Dear Br. Ron, Okay, you can say you aren t what your posts read as, and if you think that makes a difference, then little point in suggesting otherwise is
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 2, 2003
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                        Dear Br. Ron,

                        Okay, you can say you aren't what your posts read as, and if you think
                        that makes a difference, then little point in suggesting otherwise is
                        there? But if you sum up all your responses to me all you have done is
                        make assertions that you aren't saying what you do say. Whose doing the
                        political double talk? As to politics, this is an anthroposophy list,
                        not a political list and those are two very different things.

                        As to insisting I don't read well, then perhaps you don't write very
                        well. Someone want to explain what Br. Ron means here in plain English,
                        and why he isn't an isolationist?

                        As to quoting Steiner on the ethereal, I don't think I could find
                        anything to support your view, when of course you are the one insisting
                        you know what is true here. I feel no need to prove to you you don't
                        understand the ethereal at all, but you need to prove to me you know
                        something about it, rather then assert it.

                        One of Steiner's tasks was to lay the foundation for a true science of
                        life, which means leading people to how to think about the ethereal so
                        that they have real knowledge rather then vague mysticism, which is
                        useless for bringing health to life processes.

                        What are the Four Ethers? Where are the Ether boundaries (there are
                        four - and they meet longitudinally) covering the earth? What is the
                        source of the Ethereal Formative Forces? Where does the ethereal
                        concentrate on the Plant? What is the relationship between the ethereal
                        and projective geometry? Why is the ethereal body of the liver larger
                        than the physical organ itself? Are you familiar with Wachschmits
                        (sorry for the bad spelling folks) book on the Ethereal Formative Forces
                        and the Cosmos? How about Adam's book on Physical and Ethereal Spaces,
                        or his truly remarkable Space in the Light of Creation? Have you read
                        Adam's and Whicher's The Plant Between the Sun and the Earth? What is
                        the relationship between the Sun and the ethereal forces? What is
                        negative space? What is the relationship between potentization and
                        formative forces? Why does the BD farmer spray small amounts of mists
                        over his fields? What is the purpose of the "broadcasting" device
                        certain BD farmers now use? How does Margarethe Hauschka's Rhythmical
                        Message influence the ethereal body of the human being? What is the
                        threefold organism in mammals and man, and how does the ethereal
                        influence this form-structure?

                        Oh great expert on esoterics, please speak, your fan club is waiting.

                        curiouser and curiouser said Alice,
                        j.

                        On Thu, 2003-01-02 at 16:12, Br. Ron wrote:
                        >
                        > Hark! Canst thou hear it? The sound of breaking wind
                        > in yon far glen where the court hunts by moonlight,
                        > .....for Joel hath Wendt and done it again.
                        >
                        >
                        > > In your case, you say you aren't being isolationist, but the
                        > > spirit of what you advocate is.
                        >
                        >
                        > Really now?...Hold this envelope to thy bejeweled brow and
                        > tell me, oh, Kar-nak! For surely thou hast deeper insights
                        > into mine own intentions than I....
                        >
                        >
                        > > The world is far too closely integrated in fact for your
                        > > advice to work.
                        >
                        >
                        > But thou hast already demonstrated that thou knowest
                        > nothing as to the nature of said advice.
                        >
                        > I already clearly stated that I wasn't an isolationist but thou
                        > hast inferred that I was not telling the truth... Avast!
                        >
                        >
                        > > I can see the emotional sense of it (screw them let
                        > > the swim in their own juices), but nations are not
                        > > individual people....
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Joel...you are a real piece. You twist my meaning in
                        > a most disingenuous way. If I didn't know better I would
                        > almost think that you were a politician or something.
                        >
                        > Here is a snip from my last post on the subject
                        >
                        > "We have no business interfering where we aren't wanted.
                        > But we have no business NOT interfering where we are
                        > genuinely needed, either."
                        >
                        > Does that sound 'isolationist' to you?
                        > A resounding "Nay!" I should proffer!
                        >
                        > I am convinced that you haven't even read a single thing
                        > I have posted anyway. (which is OK...just don't pretend
                        > that you have, lest thou appearest as but a Richard Nixon
                        > wannabe)
                        >
                        >
                        > > You said as follows: "On a personal level, the etheric matrix is our own
                        > > private armor. On a national level, our borders are meant to define
                        > > this function." The nature of the ethereal world has no correspondence
                        > > to our national borders, which are clearly a convention of human
                        > > beings.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > You are absolutely wrong about this and you better learn this
                        > lesson well if you are going to survive the intense changes
                        > at hand. I kid you not about this, my friend.
                        >
                        > "As above so below," remember?
                        >
                        > The etheric body is, among other things, an "electro-magnetic"
                        > boundary which helps to preserve one's individualized integrity.
                        > It has much the same function as the ozone layer of
                        > the planet which filters out destructive cosmic rays.
                        >
                        > National boundaries are but larger analogs of the same thing.
                        > Humans are not the only entities in the universe in need of protection.
                        > Nations are entities too. So are molecules, cells, planets, solar systems
                        > and galaxies.
                        >
                        > I admit that there is a rather large spiritual movement to deceive
                        > the innocent into believing these divisions of consciousness
                        > shouldn't really exist, but this much I guarantee....such a belief is
                        > strictly Luciferic.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > >What you said above in reply again shows a lack of familiarity
                        > > with anthroposophical teachings on the ethereal.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Don't play the AP game with me, Joel.
                        > I want some evidence where Rudolph Steiner
                        > contradicts one thing I have said, here.
                        >
                        > C'mon, ante up!
                        >
                        > If you are going to play 'Anthroposophical expert'
                        > you best put your research where your mouth is.
                        >
                        > Otherwise back off... or people will more than likely confuse
                        > you with Soupy Sales than a serious presidential candidate.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > > What has my political activity to do with this discussion, except to
                        > > slide off the actual facts under consideration and introduce a red
                        > > herring?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I simply mention it because your posts sound like a typical
                        > knee-jerk utopian politician with a typical 'border dissolving'
                        > solution to every problem...(when at this time at least, it is the
                        > exact opposite that is needed)
                        >
                        > All I have been able to glean from your 'solutions' are
                        > political delusions of grandeur.
                        >
                        > C'mon Buddy....idealism is fine but let's get real, here.
                        > You appear to be so far out in 'La La Land' that you even
                        > make Barbara Streisand look like a Supreme Court Justice.
                        >
                        >
                        > > > When you get these basics down get back with me and I will reconsider
                        > > > taking your political ambitions and your posts a bit more seriously.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Until then.... (HONK :-)
                        >
                        >
                        > > Yes, think of this as a joke. Don't take ideas seriously, or the modern
                        > > world and all its problems seriously, or the future of the Republic
                        > > seriously.
                        >
                        >
                        > Oh, I take real ideas concerning our national and global well being
                        > VERY seriously. But so far, I find yours to generate about the same
                        > response in me as a rubber chicken in the Crock-pot.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > BR
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Joel Wendt
                        ... I set this one aside, because I wanted to keep separate discussions of anthroposophy and of politics. As you probably don t know, Steiner stated at the
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 2, 2003
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                          On Thu, 2003-01-02 at 16:12, Br. Ron wrote:

                          >
                          > Oh, I take real ideas concerning our national and global well being
                          > VERY seriously. But so far, I find yours to generate about the same
                          > response in me as a rubber chicken in the Crock-pot.
                          >

                          I set this one aside, because I wanted to keep separate discussions of
                          anthroposophy and of politics. As you probably don't know, Steiner
                          stated at the Christmas Conference that "politics was not the mission of
                          the anthroposophical movement". If you would like to understand why
                          this is so, you might read the three lectures published under the title:
                          "The Inner Aspect of the Social Question", which provides the basis for
                          Steiner's admonition.

                          This doesn't mean there aren't people with political "missions", but
                          what that is about and why is a whole other question.

                          What I would like is for you to demonstrate that you know anything about
                          my "politics". Again, you make assertions about my ideas, and indulge
                          in name calling, but that is neither rational or instructive - it is
                          just empty talk.

                          What is the main impulse of my political work? And, why is it defective
                          in any way?

                          yours for a renewal of the Republic,
                          joel
                        • Br. Ron
                          (Joel) ... Perhaps so but you certainly react to the political topics as if it were... ... Behold! I am told it really is possible to turn lead into crystal so
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 2, 2003
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                            (Joel)
                                > As to politics, this is an anthroposophy list,
                                > not a political list and those are two very different things.


                            Perhaps so but you certainly react to the political
                            topics as if it were...
                             
                             
                                > As to insisting I don't read well, then perhaps you don't write very
                                > well.  Someone want to explain what Br. Ron means here in plain English,
                                > and why he isn't an isolationist?
                             
                             
                            Behold! I am told it really is possible to turn lead into crystal
                            so is the core of my post for the 3rd time:

                            I said, "We have no business interfering where we aren't wanted.
                            But we have no business NOT interfering where we are
                            genuinely needed, either."

                            This is pretty plain, aint it?  What part of this are you having
                            trouble with? Where is the isolationism in these words?
                             
                            Joel, grab your dictionary and look up the word 'sophomoric'
                            and you just may find your picture there.
                             
                            I could just as easily have asked "Will someone explain to me in
                            plain English if Joel has quit beating his wife, yet" but that
                            would be equally as sophomoric.
                             
                             
                                > As to quoting Steiner on the ethereal, I don't think I could find
                                > anything to support your view, when of course you are the one insisting
                                > you know what is true here.  I feel no need to prove to you you don't
                                > understand the ethereal at all, but you need to prove to me you know
                                > something about it, rather then assert it.
                             
                             
                            You challenged my position. The burden of proof is therefore
                            yours. But of course we both know you can't so I shall allow
                            you to gracefully bow out of this embarrassing fax pax.
                             

                                > One of Steiner's tasks was to lay the foundation for a true science of
                                > life, which means leading people to how to think about the ethereal so
                                > that they have real knowledge rather then vague mysticism, which is
                                > useless for bringing health to life processes.
                             
                             
                            Have you ever been to a Cistercian monastery? These 'mystics
                            live well into their 90s and many are over 100. These men
                            are amongst the healthiest humanity has to offer. A mystical life
                            of devotion and prayer DOES bring health to the life processes.
                            But you would have to experience what I'm talking about, not
                            just read about it.
                             
                             
                                > What are the Four Ethers?  Where are the Ether boundaries (there are
                                > four - and they meet longitudinally) covering the earth?  What is the
                                > source of the Ethereal Formative Forces?  Where does the ethereal
                                > concentrate on the Plant?  What is the relationship between the ethereal
                                > and projective geometry? Why is the ethereal body of the liver larger
                               
                            > than the physical organ itself?  Are you familiar with
                            Wachschmits
                                > (sorry for the bad spelling folks) book on the Ethereal Formative Forces
                                > and the Cosmos?  How about Adam's book on Physical and Ethereal Spaces,
                                > or his truly remarkable Space in the Light of Creation?  Have you read
                                > Adam's and Whicher's The Plant Between the Sun and the Earth?  What is
                               
                            > the relationship between the Sun and the ethereal forces?  What
                            is
                                > negative space?  What is the relationship between potentization and
                                > formative forces?  Why does the BD farmer spray small amounts of mists
                                > over his fields?  What is the purpose of the "broadcasting" device
                                > certain BD farmers now use?  How does Margarethe Hauschka's Rhythmical
                                > Message influence the ethereal body of the human being?  What is the
                               
                            > threefold organism in mammals and man, and how does the
                            ethereal
                                > influence this form-structure? Oh great expert on esoterics, please
                                > speak, your fan club is waiting.
                             
                             
                            Yaaaawwwwn...(snort) Huh?...Oh!...excuse me...uh, where were we?
                             
                            Oh yeah, actually, as I was saying, I have great compassion for 
                            your predicament.
                             
                            It's like the poor guy who spent his whole life reading about
                            how to play the piano. Then when his recital debut finally arrived,
                            all he could do is sit there and explain to the audience how pianos
                            are played.
                             
                            I am starting to see a genuine pathology amongst many
                            self proclaimed Anthroposophists...and that is this:
                             
                            Not a one of them has ever had an original thought!
                             
                            ..... they sure are good at aping Steiner, though.
                             
                            This of course is the very antithesis of what RS himself wanted
                            for his students, isn't it?  
                             
                             
                            Oh oh!..."Houston...we have a problem"......(back to the
                            instruction manual).
                             
                             
                             
                             
                            BR
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                          • Br. Ron
                            ... From: Joel Wendt ... Joel...talk to me...please...if there is a turd on the kitchen table you don t need to quote Steiner on why it
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 3, 2003
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                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Joel Wendt" <hermit@...>
                               
                                  > I set this one aside, because I wanted to keep separate discussions of
                                  > anthroposophy and of politics.  As you probably don't know, Steiner
                                  > stated at the Christmas Conference that "politics was not the mission of
                                  > the anthroposophical movement".  If you would like to understand why
                                  > this is so, you might read the three lectures published under the title:
                                  > "The Inner Aspect of the Social Question", which provides the basis for
                                  > Steiner's admonition.
                               
                               
                              Joel...talk to me...please...if there is a turd on the kitchen table
                              you don't need to quote Steiner on why it doesn't belong there.
                              If you want to keep politics separate from our discussions then
                              just do it....yourself...without Steiner...You can do it on your
                              own, Joel......I know you can! 
                               
                               
                                  > This doesn't mean there aren't people with political "missions", but
                                  > what that is about and why is a whole other question.
                               
                               
                              OK..then let's move on..I'm fine with that.

                               
                                  > What I would like is for you to demonstrate that you know anything about
                                  > my "politics".  Again, you make assertions about my ideas, and indulge
                                  > in name calling, but that is neither rational or instructive - it is
                                  > just empty talk.
                               
                               
                              Oh...so you DO want to talk about politics. As you wish.
                              The truth is, I know nothing about your politics, Joel except what

                               
                                  > What is the main impulse of my political work?  And, why is it defective
                                  > in any way?
                               
                               
                              I never said it was. In fact, I rather think you have some viable political
                              qualities. (You do show a tad of spunk and perseverance)
                               
                              I probably would even go so far as to say that you might even
                              make a better president than many we have had, so far. 
                               
                              I am not opposed to you Joel. In fact, we probably have more in
                              common than you would like to admit.
                               
                              We both liked to hang out in Montana,...we both smoked a lot
                              of dope in the 70s.....We both have egos the size of a Buick.
                               
                              But until you remove your head from the Southern orifice of that
                              North bound mule and come down from that wearisome, overcrowded 
                              Anthroposophical ivory tower of pseudo-intellectual superiority,
                              you won't even make it to the Powder Puff Derby.
                               
                              There is hope, however...We'll start by leaning you up against a tree
                              and hosing you off...then a shave, a haircut and a new suit...
                               
                              Then we can get you a bunch of books on how to kiss babies, etc.
                               
                               
                               
                              BR
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                            • Br. Ron
                              ... As an Abbot, I can imagine his heart was surely broken. ... Thanks for your input, Andrea. While these things were seldom an issue in my monastery I do
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 3, 2003
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                                        >>These 'mystics live well into their 90s and many are over 100. 
                                       >>are amongst the healthiest humanity has to offer. A mystical life
                                        >>of devotion and prayer DOES bring health to the life processes.

                                    >Excuse me in advance Br.Ron if I jump in in your duel with Joel
                                    >but since I live in a country full of Cistercian and Benedectine
                                    >monasteries i have the duty to give you (and the list) the other
                                    >side of the coin.

                                    >A while ago i spent a time in Uliveto's Monte Maggiore Monastery in Toscana -
                                    >(I presently use to spend some weekend in the S.Benedetto Monastery
                                    > near Subiaco) and the Abate ("Commander in Chief") opened his heart
                                    > and told me about, with deep grief- of the decadence of the institutions
                                    > he had to lead.
                                 
                                 
                                As an Abbot, I can imagine his heart was surely broken.
                                 

                                   
                                >Homosexuality,Alcoholism, Lack of Religious life, Politicism : those are the
                                    >monsters that, as he stated, show presently the decadence of the traditional
                                    >spiritual life and the hard times that is now living such a once powerful
                                    >religious brotherood here in Italy.
                                 
                                 
                                Thanks for your input, Andrea.
                                 
                                While these things were seldom an issue in my monastery
                                I do know they exist in some others. Not only the Church,
                                but institutionalism itself is being purged these days.
                                 
                                Monks are like Anthroposophists. There are good ones and bad ones.
                                 
                                I wasn't however promoting monasteries as a solution to the world's ills
                                but simply making the point that a devout life of mystical prayer is
                                indeed a healthy one, if earnestly adhered to. (in contradistinction to
                                Joel's 'true believer' assertion that only AP was health producing while
                                mystical devotion was not)
                                 
                                 
                                LVX
                                 
                                 
                                BR
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                              • Joel Wendt
                                ... No, I don t want to talk about politics on an anthroposophy list. On an anthroposophy list I want to talk about spiritual science. As far as ivory towers
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 3, 2003
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                                  On Fri, 2003-01-03 at 03:29, Br. Ron wrote:

                                  >
                                  > Oh...so you DO want to talk about politics. As you wish.
                                  > The truth is, I know nothing about your politics, Joel except what
                                  > I read at: http://ipwebdev.com/hermit/gmg7a.html

                                  No, I don't want to talk about politics on an anthroposophy list. On an
                                  anthroposophy list I want to talk about spiritual science. As far as
                                  ivory towers go, the only reason it looks to you like I am on one is
                                  because you keep insisting you know something about anthroposophy when
                                  clearly you know very little.

                                  I don't think you need to know anything about it by the way, that's a
                                  choice one get to make. But when you speak of it, and misrepresent it,
                                  on an anthroposophy list, then don't get your shorts in a knot if
                                  someone who can see how full of it you are steps on your preconceptions
                                  and horse pucky.

                                  Now if I was to try to run music stuff past you, you'd see in a moment I
                                  was faking it. So when you fake it about anthroposophy, well, you
                                  deserve what you get.

                                  Glad to know what you think about my politics given what little you
                                  know. There's a campaign website (http://ipwebdev.com/campaign), and on
                                  those pages an e-mail link so if you want to go deeper into it (yea we
                                  are probably a lot of like, that's why we're both assholes), check it
                                  out and we can be political off the list.

                                  But, when you sing wrong notes, with some horrible disharmonies, about
                                  anthroposophy, I am going throw some harsh words at you, so wear your
                                  battle armor, ok?

                                  warm regards,
                                  joel
                                • Br. Ron
                                  From: Joel Wendt ... As you wish ... Whatchoo talkin bout? (he sez in his best Gary Coleman) I never claimed to know anything bout
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jan 3, 2003
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                                    From: "Joel Wendt" <hermit@...>
                                     
                                        > > Oh...so you DO want to talk about politics. As you wish.
                                        > > The truth is, I know nothing about your politics, Joel except what
                                        >
                                    > I read at:
                                    face=Arial size=2>http://ipwebdev.com/hermit/gmg7a.html
                                       >
                                        > No, I don't want to talk about politics on an anthroposophy list. 
                                     
                                     
                                    As you wish
                                     
                                     
                                        >  But when you speak of it, and misrepresent it,
                                        > on an anthroposophy list, then don't get your shorts in a knot if
                                        > someone who can see how full of it you are steps on your preconceptions
                                        > and horse pucky.>
                                        > Now if I was to try to run music stuff past you, you'd see in a moment I
                                        > was faking it.  So when you fake it about anthroposophy, well, you
                                        > deserve what you get.
                                     
                                     
                                    Whatchoo talkin bout? (he sez in his best Gary Coleman)
                                    I never claimed to know anything 'bout Anthroposophy. 
                                    Hell, I haven't even mastered wheelbarrows yet
                                    (machinery intimidates me)
                                     
                                    No, I never claimed to be an Anthroposophist, Joel.
                                    In fact I have made it quite clear several times that I don't
                                    even like Anthroposophists.
                                     
                                    (I do love much of what Rudolph Steiner has written, however)
                                     
                                     
                                        > Glad to know what you think about my politics given what little you
                                        > know.  There's a campaign website (
                                    http://ipwebdev.com/campaign), and on
                                        > those pages an e-mail link so if you want to go deeper into it
                                     
                                     
                                    Well whadda ya think about me being your campaign manager?
                                    I have been being tutored by the ghost of PT Barnum, I'll bet
                                    together we could chew up a few mean cigars. Maybe we could
                                    even get Bradford to be your speech writer.
                                     
                                     
                                        >yea we are probably a lot of like, that's why we're both assholes
                                     
                                     
                                    Speaking of that, did you know I'm having a colostomy on Tuesday?
                                    Shucks, if you don't want to discuss politics, maybe you'd rather
                                    look into......
                                     
                                     
                                        > But, when you sing wrong notes, with some horrible
                                        > disharmonies, about anthroposophy, I am going throw some
                                        > harsh words at you, so wear your battle armor, ok?
                                     
                                     
                                    Sure...I got my leathers on and my weapon is unsheathed,
                                    erect and ready for the charge (ahem, forgive me Sigmund)
                                     
                                    Anyway, before we retire to the coliseum, I need to know
                                    what Anthroposophical misrepresentation I am charged with.
                                     
                                    Betcha can't do it...seeing as how I never claimed to represent
                                    AP in the first place....but that's OK I just saw Russell Crowe in
                                    The Gladiator for the 3rd time and I am PUMPED!
                                     
                                     
                                    (See attachment)
                                     
                                     
                                    Et tu, Commodious? Prepare to taste my metal!
                                     
                                    (Commodious?...Sheesh I just can't get away from
                                    this potty mouth, today)
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    BR
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                  • Br. Ron
                                    ... GREAT!!!!!!!! THIS IS THE DEEPEST TRUTH I HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED IN THE CYBERWORLD111 Sincerely yours, Mr.Spaghetti Hey watch it, Mr. Spaghetti. Yer
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jan 4, 2003
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                                          >yea we are probably a lot of like, that's why we're both assholes
                                       
                                      GREAT!!!!!!!!
                                       THIS IS THE DEEPEST TRUTH I HAVE  EVER EXPERIENCED IN THE CYBERWORLD111
                                       
                                      Sincerely yours,
                                      Mr.Spaghetti 
                                       
                                      Hey watch it, Mr. Spaghetti.
                                      Yer gettin' kinda saucy there.
                                       
                                      Tony Soprano is off until next season
                                      but I have his private number and he owes me a favor.
                                       
                                       
                                      Brotherri Ronacci
                                       
                                       
                                       
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