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*why are we (each of us) here?*

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  • elaineupton2001
    Dear list members, Today I ask: why are we (each of us) here? Of course, that question is for each to answer --or not. When I read (or have read) many of the
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 3, 2002
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      Dear list members,

      Today I ask: why are we (each of us) here?

      Of course, that question is for each to answer --or not.

      When I read (or have read) many of the posts and threads on this
      list, it appears to me that there is a lot written that is, at most,
      on the margins of spiritual scientific endeavor, on the margins, at
      most, of explorations into anthroposophical offerings. It appears
      that some of us are here to hijack anthroposophy by making witty
      sidecracks, abstract and reductive comments about various religions
      and cultures, about various groups--feminists or so-called "lefties"
      or "environmentalists" or "Muslims" or "Christians" or whoever. I see
      little that is productive in the continuation of dialogue in such a
      reductive and abstract atmosphere.--Some of us here apparently have
      no real interest in anthroposophy, and seldom (if ever) post anything
      of real anthroposophical content (but often post snide or half-witty,
      in my view, remarks, and post long articles that show no direction
      bearing on anthroposophic inquiry).

      I also sense that some of us (including me, sometimes) are motivated
      perhaps by egotism--that is, the desire to "be right", to "look good"
      or appear smarter than another or more intelligent or learned than
      another, or are motivated by the desire to knock another around, to
      simply label and dismiss or reduce another, or are motivated just by
      the desire to play games with words or dally about with abstract
      concepts or to parade unfounded prejudices, ones that have no basis
      in experience--all pitfalls of false egotism, and dangers of an
      undeveloped spiritual member: EGO (the Higher Spiritual member, not
      as in egotism). Indeed, as Bruce once recently put it, this list
      verges at times on becoming a caricature of itself.

      Itself? What is this list? Does it have a (metamorphosing) being?
      What is its purpose? With what spirit might we ideally post here? How
      can anthropo-Sophia live among us here? How do we realize--REAL-ize
      the truth of Christ as the medium, as in "Where two or three are
      gathered in My Name, there I AM in the midst"?

      What can be done? What is helpful? In my view, it would be helpful
      when people think (morally) before we speak/write. It would be
      helpful if our motive is to approach deeper truths, for the love of
      that truth, and, as Steiner says (and as I also believe is important)-
      -for the "ennoblement of humanity and the upliftment of the cosmos"
      (in *How to Know Higher Worlds*, and other places I'm sure...). It
      takes a great deal of discipline and love to go beyond egotism to a
      speaking together in Goethean con-verse-ation, in the spirit of
      calling on the I AM, where Christ is the medium (not the Jesus of
      conventional churches, necessarily, but the esoterically encountered
      and understood Christ-in-us, an approach that takes a lot of work and
      love).

      If we are here to play games, to hijack anthroposophy and spiritual
      science, to look smart, to look Initiated, to look good, to label and
      dismiss others, then it is a sad day, I feel.

      But I know that there is hope, and many here, in my view, do post in
      the spirit of truth-seeking, with honest-open dialogue, and for this
      I am a grateful student.

      It might be a good time, in this Advent Season, to revisit why we are
      here.

      Blessings,
      elaine
    • Guam Quackers
      elaineupton2001 said, ... steiner s knowledge of hi worlds & its attainment says our civilization tends more toward critical judgment and condemnation than
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 3, 2002
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        elaineupton2001 said,
        > Dear list members,
        >
        > Today I ask: why are we (each of us) here?
        > Of course, that question is for each to answer --or not.

        steiner's knowledge of hi worlds & its attainment says "our civilization tends more toward critical judgment and condemnation than toward devotion & selfless veneration. our children already criticize far more than they worship. but every criticism, every adverse judgment passed, disperses the powers of the soul for the attainment of higher knowledge in the same measure that all veneration & reverence develops them. ...
        if i meet a man and blame him for his shortcomings, i rob myself of power to attain higherknowledge..."

        sometimes people just need to see themselves as they really are.

        Guam
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      • Ashley Case
        Thank you, Elaine. I am coming out of lurkdom to express to you that I am here to learn. I have been quiet on this list because I am young and have only
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 3, 2002
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          >
          Thank you, Elaine.  I am coming out of lurkdom to express to you that I am here to learn.  I have been quiet on this list because I am young and have only studied Anthroposophy for two years.  When I first started reading the posts, I understood almost nothing of what was being said; but my study of Anthroposophy has completely transformed my life, and so I am here to pick up the treasures that life has left in place of the old Lie I have left behind.
           
          The minds I encounter here are like giants to me.  Starman is the dear familiarity I grew up with in Republican Texas; Soren is the magical Knight that gives me absolute hope in the meaning of my existence; Br. Ron is a wise mystery to me; Stephen is some kind of far-out brilliant type (I love his CosmoCycles list) ...  I don't actually have all the personalities nailed down around here (welcome Jud; you'll find a fine battle here) .. but I will admit that I'm here to consume the knowledge that is bantered around here with such fun.
           
          I may or may not become a personality like these, as my wisdom matures.  I was very glad to hear about the "most active" status of this group at Yahoo because I am gaining *so* much from the dialogue here!!  My life has offered me amazing riches, but the study of Rudolf Steiner blew it all to pieces and finally brought me home.
           
          And if God continues to bless us, I will be spending the remainder of such life with my Knight and hero Soren ..
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 12:55:59 PM
          Subject: [anthroposophy] *why are we (each of us) here?*
           
          Dear list members,

          Today I ask: why are we (each of us) here?

          Of course, that question is for each to answer --or not.

          When I read (or have read) many of the posts and threads on this
          list, it appears to me that there is a lot written that is, at most,
          on the margins of spiritual scientific endeavor, on the margins, at
          most, of explorations into anthroposophical offerings. It appears
          that some of us are here to hijack anthroposophy by making witty
          sidecracks, abstract and reductive comments about various religions
          and cultures, about various groups--feminists or so-called "lefties"
          or "environmentalists" or "Muslims" or "Christians" or whoever. I see
          little that is productive in the continuation of dialogue in such a
          reductive and abstract atmosphere.--Some of us here apparently have
          no real interest in anthroposophy, and seldom (if ever) post anything
          of real anthroposophical content (but often post snide or half-witty,
          in my view, remarks, and post long articles that show no direction
          bearing on anthroposophic inquiry).

          I also sense that some of us (including me, sometimes) are motivated
          perhaps by egotism--that is, the desire to "be right", to "look good"
          or appear smarter than another or more intelligent or learned than
          another, or are motivated by the desire to knock another around, to
          simply label and dismiss or reduce another, or are motivated just by
          the desire to play games with words or dally about with abstract
          concepts or to parade unfounded prejudices, ones that have no basis
          in experience--all pitfalls of false egotism, and dangers of an
          undeveloped spiritual member: EGO (the Higher Spiritual member, not
          as in egotism). Indeed, as Bruce once recently put it, this list
          verges at times on becoming a caricature of itself.

          Itself? What is this list? Does it have a (metamorphosing) being?
          What is its purpose? With what spirit might we ideally post here? How
          can anthropo-Sophia live among us here? How do we realize--REAL-ize
          the truth of Christ as the medium, as in "Where two or three are
          gathered in My Name, there I AM in the midst"?

          What can be done? What is helpful? In my view, it would be helpful
          when people think (morally) before we speak/write. It would be
          helpful if our motive is to approach deeper truths, for the love of
          that truth, and, as Steiner says (and as I also believe is important)-
          -for the "ennoblement of humanity and the upliftment of the cosmos"
          (in *How to Know Higher Worlds*, and other places I'm sure...). It
          takes a great deal of discipline and love to go beyond egotism to a
          speaking together in Goethean con-verse-ation, in the spirit of
          calling on the I AM, where Christ is the medium (not the Jesus of
          conventional churches, necessarily, but the esoterically encountered
          and understood Christ-in-us, an approach that takes a lot of work and
          love).

          If we are here to play games, to hijack anthroposophy and spiritual
          science, to look smart, to look Initiated, to look good, to label and
          dismiss others, then it is a sad day, I feel.

          But I know that there is hope, and many here, in my view, do post in
          the spirit of truth-seeking, with honest-open dialogue, and for this
          I am a grateful student.

          It might be a good time, in this Advent Season, to revisit why we are
          here.

          Blessings,
          elaine







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        • DRStarman2001@aol.com
          ... *******Indeed they do. I d say we are here to talk about a new way of knowing the Christ, a way we know from a movement that could only have appeared in
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 3, 2002
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            elaineupton2001 said,
            > Dear list members,
            > Today I ask: why are we (each of us) here?
            > Of course, that question is for each to answer --or not.

            steiner's knowledge of hi worlds & its attainment says "our civilization tends more toward critical judgment and condemnation than toward devotion & selfless veneration. our children already criticize far more than they worship. but every criticism, every adverse judgment passed, disperses the powers of the soul for the attainment of higher knowledge in the same measure that all veneration & reverence develops them. ...
            if i meet a man and blame him for his shortcomings, i rob myself of power to attain higherknowledge..."

            sometimes people just need to see themselves as they really are.

            Guam


            *******Indeed they do. I'd say we are here to talk about a new way of knowing the Christ, a way we know from a movement that could only have appeared in central Europe, where the fruits of Christ's working in Western civilization had prepared the ground for it. Since worldwide attacks on Westerners were begun by the very force that opposed Him in Europe for centuries (a movement in which neither the old nor any new way of speaking about Him would be allowed), we've been talking about that as well. Should we not? Brother Ron had some very insightful things to say recently. Is characterizing a philosophy of anti-life truthfully being 'critical'? Lightsearcher has been talking about the Ahrimanic deception of the Antichrist, the Sorath-forces who Steiner predicted would arise about 1998, and a prohibition against free thinking that would accompany that, and publishing examples of it.
            -starman
            http://www.DrStarman.net
          • Sören Groth
            ... My fair lady, welcome out of the lurking... :-) Hope you ll speak up more often, with your refined virtue of the texas republican uprising - So often when
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 4, 2002
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              --- In anthroposophy@y..., "Ashley Case" <ashley.case@v...> wrote:

              > And if God continues to bless us, I will be spending the remainder of
              > such
              > life with my Knight and hero Soren ..

              My fair lady, welcome out of the lurking... :-) Hope you'll speak up
              more often, with your refined virtue of the texas republican uprising
              - So often when we have been whispering in the corners, you have
              spoken words of mature wisdom :-)

              > I may or may not become a personality like these, as my wisdom
              matures.
            • Br. Ron
              Congratulations Ashley and Soren. It appears that the truly rare has happened here. Gold has discovered gold. Br. Ron Somewhere there waiteth in this world
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 4, 2002
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                Congratulations Ashley and Soren.
                It appears that the truly 'rare' has happened here. 
                Gold has discovered gold.
                 
                Br. Ron
                 
                 

                “Somewhere there waiteth in this world of ours
                For one lone soul another lonely soul,
                Each choosing each through all the weary hours,
                And meeting strangely at one sudden goal,
                Then blend they, like green leaves with golden flowers,
                Into one beautiful and perfect whole;
                And life's long night is ended, and the way
                Lies open onward to eternal day.”

                - Edwin Arnold, Somewhere There Waiteth

                 
                 

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Sören Groth" <sgroth@...>
                To: <anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 12:33 AM
                Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: *why are we (each of us) here?*


                > --- In anthroposophy@y..., "Ashley Case" <ashley.case@v...> wrote:
                >
                > > And if God continues to bless us, I will be spending the remainder of
                > > such
                > > life with my Knight and hero Soren ..
                >
                > My fair lady, welcome out of the lurking... :-) Hope you'll speak up
                > more often, with your refined virtue of the texas republican uprising
                > - So often when we have been whispering in the corners, you have
                > spoken words of mature wisdom  :-) 
                >
                > > I may or may not become a personality like these, as my wisdom
                > matures. 
                >
                >
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy
                > Unsubscribe:
                > anthroposophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com 
                > List owner:  anthroposophy-owner@yahoogroups.com 

                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • elaineupton2001
                Thank you Ashley (sp?), starman, and Guam Crackers (smile), for your replies to this thread. You all give me bright points to focus on. Starman and Ashley show
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 4, 2002
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                  Thank you Ashley (sp?), starman, and Guam Crackers (smile), for your
                  replies to this thread. You all give me bright points to focus on.
                  Starman and Ashley show appreciation for others postings here, and
                  Guam reminds us of what R.S. said about criticizing others and how
                  it slays forces in the soul. Thank you all.

                  Names have been mentioned in your appreciative notes: Brother Ron,
                  Lightsearcher, starman, stephen, and others. I can say 'yes' to that
                  and add more, everyone here--Danny, Joel, Sheila, Sarah, JoAnn,
                  eurhythmy Frankie, Andrea, Soren, Bruce (moderator with an even
                  hand), a couple of new people, whose names I don't yet have (but
                  will), and who else? If I am forgetting someone, I will remember
                  soon, I trust.

                  Why am I here? To experience (as much as this internet allows) a
                  Christened group, in the spirit of the increasingly esoterically
                  understood Christ, "I AM in the midst". While I may not (often do
                  not) agree with opinions offered here, I learn the art of inner
                  peace in my encounters with you all, with those with whom I agree
                  and those with whom I disagree.

                  Also, what I have learned (not wholly perhaps on this list, but
                  significantly here from my observations of posts on this list) is
                  the importance of working on my own growth and openness (in order to
                  serve) and to seek to ground my opinions in real experience (marry
                  the percept to the concept, as Joel put it). I have, for example,
                  been wanting to draw--to do perspective drawing, and am learning a
                  lot about how I see (or fail to see) what I am seeing. Often I have
                  a concept--let's say of a tiled floor--and yet when I go to draw the
                  tiled floor I have to see that my perception is often stymied by my
                  conception. The conception is abstract and will not work on its own
                  in the drawing. I'll end up with a strange drawing. Or, I have a
                  concept of a tin can, that it has a top and bottom, but normally
                  cannot see both at once and cannot draw with that concept, so I need
                  to see what I am seeing, in a grounded way (with the concept there,
                  but not dominating).

                  The same is true, i feel, for issues and ideas that affect our world
                  and our understanding of it through spiritual science. I can have an
                  idea or concept that is very abstract, ungrounded, not based on
                  experience or direct perception (in other words, i do not see what i
                  am seeing). I can say that--have a concept of and make
                  pronouncements that-- Islamists (Muslims), for example, are this or
                  that, but until I have a real experience of them, where I marry
                  percept and concept, until I meet the "other" in compassionate,
                  grounded experience, as well as in the heavenly realms (calling up
                  the action of the lemniscate, moving between earth and heaven, as in
                  the spiral of a growing plant, and as in the fulfillment of The Rose
                  Cross)--until then, to put it in Paul's terms, I am merely "sounding
                  brass and a tinkling cymbal"--noise, cacophony!

                  --So, I hope to go beyond criticizing others, to appreciation for
                  all gifts, even when I disagree (or even when I found them making
                  cacophonous sounds--smile). My aim is to learn to see more deeply,
                  more committedly, more compassionately, borne on by the promise and
                  real-ization of the Cross covered with Roses.

                  This is, Bruce says, the Father C.R. list (smile). So--aho!

                  Thanks to all, Aho!
                  elaine
                • Sören Groth
                  Thanks dear Sire For thy kind words and the beautifull poem... Ohh trubadour - we salute you Sören & Ashley
                  Message 8 of 8 , Dec 5, 2002
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                    Thanks dear Sire
                    For thy kind words and the beautifull poem...
                    Ohh trubadour - we salute you

                    Sören & Ashley

                    --- In anthroposophy@y..., "Br. Ron" <rlloyd@d...> wrote:

                    > Congratulations Ashley and Soren.
                    > It appears that the truly 'rare' has happened here.
                    > Gold has discovered gold.
                    >
                    > Br. Ron
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > "Somewhere there waiteth in this world of ours
                    > For one lone soul another lonely soul,
                    > Each choosing each through all the weary hours,
                    > And meeting strangely at one sudden goal,
                    > Then blend they, like green leaves with golden flowers,
                    > Into one beautiful and perfect whole;
                    > And life's long night is ended, and the way
                    > Lies open onward to eternal day."
                    >
                    > - Edwin Arnold, Somewhere There Waiteth
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