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Re: 'racist' quotes?

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  • elaineupton2001
    Hello all of this thread begun by sarah (at least in its latest version). I m back from the holiday weekend and ready to roll. I appreciate soren s references
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 2, 2002
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      Hello all of this thread begun by sarah (at least in its latest
      version).

      I'm back from the holiday weekend and ready to roll. I appreciate
      soren's references to steiner on race in the PHilsophy of Freedom.
      And also,at the risk of shocking some, let me say that I quite agree
      with much of what starman said in reply on this topic. He talked
      about how it is difficult to discuss this topic without all the
      current hysteria that surrounds it. I agree. Also he mentioned how
      dealing in abstractions, instead of delving into the deeper esoteric
      matters of race, is not helpful, and again, I agree with him (you,
      starman).

      Yes, it may seem shocking, sarah, what steiner said about blonds and
      intelligence. Then if we look about in our western cultures (at least
      here in the U.S.), we see this cult of blondness, from Barbar Walters
      (a very rich and famous TV personality, who does not have naturally
      blond hair, but like many, dyes her hair in order, it seems, to
      appear more acceptable), and we have this whole Nazi business abotu
      Aryans and blond hair-blue eyes, and so certainly people can have a
      field day with that and those who wish can say that steiner is
      racist...., but that would be dealing in surfaces, abstractions, and
      such....

      What does blond really mean on a deeper, esoteric level, for example?
      That is the question. It is a mere distortion that Hitler and Nazis
      and TV personalities or perhaps Madonna make out of this blond
      thing.... There is something deeper that needs a quiet, devoted kind
      of attention, beyond the hysteria, beyond the media distortions and
      the fascist agenda. Anything can be perverted, at least on the
      surface...

      I feel quite certain that associating blondness with intelligence
      does not mean that only blond people are intelligent and that others,
      dark haired people are stupid, etc....Surely steiner, the man of vast
      wisdom, knew this, and if he didn't, well....that would be strange...
      In any case, one can look around and see that plenty of people with
      dark hair have intelligence. So, obviously we must be talking about
      something deeper here in this association of "blond"
      and "intelligence." There is a certain condition of evolution, and we
      evolve to a time when blondness appears and that brings a certain
      possibility into the world, just as the existence of dark haired
      peoples has brought certain possibilities into the world.

      Anyway, I think soren's posts are also right on, in noting that
      steiner says (in the Philosophy of Freedom, aka Philosopy of
      Spiritual activity) that we evolve beyond generic raciality. Also,
      sarah, if you want to read and get a broader view of what steienr
      said, there is another passage in the Apocalypse of St. John
      lectures, where steiner talks about the future not being about race,
      but about other groupings. "Blondness" no longer has to do with just
      race, but with a larger conception, just as do other qualities....

      This all takes some inner quiet study and cannot just be played
      around with in emails, in my opinion. So, if you/we are serious about
      this matter, it will take some quiet reverent study, deep observation
      and esoteric seeing, with LOVE and the broader view that LOVE for
      all beings affords.

      EAch human has a divine spark and all are worthy, regardless of skin
      color, hair color, etc. I hope that would go without saying, yet thre
      are some anthropops and enemies of anthropops who apparently do not
      experience this.

      Blessings,
      elaine

      --- In anthroposophy@y..., DRStarman2001@a... wrote:
      > sarahwh@t... writes:
      > > Hello,
      > > I discovered the following quotes from Steiner that I find a
      little
      > > disturbing, and wondered if Starman and others could explain in
      some kind
      > > of context:
      > > "[T]he representative people for the development of the
      consciousness soul,
      > > hence for what matters particularly in our age, is the Anglo-
      Saxon nation.
      > > The Anglo-Saxon people are those who through their whole
      organization are
      > > predisposed to develop the consciousness soul to a special
      degree." (Rudolf
      > > Steiner, Materialism and the Task of Anthroposophy, p. 195,
      Anthroposophic
      > > Press, 1987.)
      > > "If the blonds and blue-eyed people die out, the human race will
      become
      > > increasingly dense if men do not arrive at a form of intelligence
      that is
      > > independent of blondness. Blond hair actually bestows
      intelligence.... It
      > > is indeed true that the more the fair individuals die out the
      more will the
      > > instinctive wisdom of humans vanish." (Rudolf Steiner, Health and
      Illness,
      > > p. 86, Anthroposophic Press, 1981.)
      > > thanks
      > > ¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
      > > ¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
      > > ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- Sarah
      > > -:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*
      > >
      >
      > *******I've been saying for many years now that it was impossible
      to
      > rationally discuss race in the 20th century, because of Hitler and
      the Nazis.
      > Now that we're in the 21st, I wonder if we can finally start. I
      doubt it can
      > be done among many people--- but race HAS an esoteric significance.
      Of
      > course, as you know, these days it's required by the intolerant
      religion of
      > the ruling paradigm that you say that an individual is an
      individual and
      > equal to every other individual, and that it makes no difference if
      he's male
      > or female, European or African, or what have you, and anyone who
      does notice
      > differences is evil and has to be shouted down. This of course
      ignores what
      > everybody knows from personal experience, that there are definite
      character
      > traits of different nationalities, that the members of them
      generally show
      > regardless of the individual. The result of this Ahrimanic
      deception is that
      > these obvious truths are only discussed privately, with the result
      that
      > honest discussion of them is prohibited and therefore they can't be
      > understood scientifically or rationally. Anyone who tries to do so
      is accused
      > of unconsciously following stereotypes. So strong is this desire to
      be
      > politically correct that a clairvoyant like Rudolf Steiner is
      assumed to have
      > been doing the same thing, because it's unthinkable that he might
      have been
      > telling the truth. But different parts of the human being ARE
      accentuated in
      > the different races. To believe otherwise is to pursue a political
      ideal of
      > "equality" so much that reality is obscured.
      >
      > As I say, I'm not sure we're ready to really talk about the
      occult side
      > of these things as it can be found in the Edgar Cayce readings,
      Anthroposophy
      > etc.. Perhaps it's better done outside of public discussion. The
      quotes above
      > don't actually have to do with race, but with ethnicity, anyway.
      > Anthroposophy does not hover in abstractions, but its pure ideas
      are brought
      > down to sensible reality, for instance in recognizing how the
      different parts
      > of the soul will be stronger in one type of people or another.
      A "folk" or
      > people is not just an abstraction, but rather a folk spirit or folk
      soul, a
      > being higher than a human being, lives in all the members of one.
      This is a
      > reality which can be perceived, politically incorrect as that may
      be.
      > Individuals by their karma will incarnate into this or that group
      so that
      > they may use the abilities they will be born with. Rudolf Steiner
      could not
      > have come anywhere except to the German people, for instance. What
      you've
      > quoted here should be part of reflecting what it means to be an
      English
      > speaking person, a Caucasian, etc. (Blond and red hair of course,
      like blue
      > eyes, occur only in the Caucasian race.) Naturally, however, this
      subject
      > cannot be scientifically examined so long as it is surrounded by
      political
      > hysteria. It only comes up frequently because the enemies of
      Anthroposophy
      > take these quotes and spread them far and wide to discredit
      Steiner. There
      > are many truths that can only be understood properly on the path of
      > initiation, and, when revealed to the unprepared and uninitiated,
      are bound
      > to be misunderstood.
      >
      > Dr. Starman
      > http://www.DrStarman.net
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