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Mary M and Anfortas

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  • holderlin66
    Danny brought something interesting about the cleansing of the Sentient Soul forces of Magdalene recently. This insight brings us to the Astral Body, and
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 1, 2002
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      Danny brought something interesting about the cleansing of the
      Sentient Soul forces of Magdalene recently. This insight brings us to
      the Astral Body, and Gullvieg Gold problem. In Biblical studies where
      we want to isolate the Purification of the Astral body and connect it
      with why Magdalene was allowed to SEE/Hear in the occult sense, the
      Newly Born Spirit Man, the future Human Being the walking, talking
      Resurrected New Human Immortal Form ahead of others?

      Casting out 7 entrenched addictive forces in the Sentient Soul, 7
      fallen devachan forces that are the shadow side of the higher
      development of the Spirit Self, meant that Mary Magdalene had a
      cleared mirror. She wept anguishing tears before the Mystery of
      Golgotha. Her Passion and the higher purification of her soul was
      quivering with the highest resonation of un-joy. Of Loss, of agony,
      of empathy, of the abyss of what if nothing, what if never again?

      Her Golden Hair, her Gullveig like entrenched witch force of Astral
      addiction went through a thrice great purification, her, like our own
      shadow side, seeds of astral addictive personality dysfunction,
      experienced what in the Astral body is sheer Love. Not only was Mary
      M. Madame M. Butterfly in the family of Lazarus, as sister to Martha
      and Laz, but as we all know, was intimate in the core focus of what
      was shimmering in the Astral Body and Noble Identity of the Human
      Being she thought she had in front of her. Her heart told her things
      that were higher than her head. She, like other deluded girl and boy
      friend relatinships, Mary M, thought she had the True Divine Man
      worthy of worship and adoration in front of her. The Astral body does
      such rehersals in all of our relationships.

      Since I am in Texas and country song community, bad country songs are
      full of this whining dysfunction of astral perception to devotion to
      your drunken, Jack Daniels, moron man. Each dysfunctional astral body
      thinking, ya, I need something to worship to caste all my attention
      on and settle my restlessness. Well if we wanted to get the kinks,
      the demons out of our psychologies and get Avarice, greed, whatever
      deadly rooted sins there are, gluttony (anorexia and bolemia as well
      as the fat pharms of males and females who eat in place of restless
      soul conditions) envy, lust.. well we could do an Astral Jerry
      Springer show, which reveals the fallen Astral forces that Mary M,
      was cleansed of, just to reveal how current and basically, infected
      is the American Psyche with these fallen Astral shadow forces.

      Not only is it infected but American media worships, adores and
      wallows in all of it just like pigs. But switching gears here,
      touching into the glitch of Kundry and how she managed to carry her
      Pathology over, and over through several incarnations as a scar
      forced upon her because of the magnitude of the Christ Event directly
      in her vicinity, we see that cleansing and healing in the Mercurial
      sense of how Christ cleansed the Astral body of Mary M.. and Parsifal
      opened the scar and healed, or at least got Kundry off her agonized
      pathological dysfunction into a redeemed conscious path of inner
      development, that shattered the power her Solar Addictions had over
      her. Parsifal as Spirit Self deed could reach into the Astral
      forces, the triad of Astral stages, Puberty, Sentient Soul and Spirit
      Self and cleanse the dysfunction or allow her to regain her I AM
      equilibrium and begin her own path of higher purification.

      "What ails Thee?" of course is the male problem of dysfunction that
      is latent in the tale. Men, when either tempted with Power as in the
      Ring, of Lord of the Rings, or in mid-life crisis with corvette and
      beautiful blondes... well the sting of power in the false groin,
      Cancer that could only be soothed when the Lance that had stung the
      Jesus Being touched his groin.. In other words, the male suffers from
      moving from Macho Reproductive Soprano kind of Dad, producing off
      spring and that type of love (more country western songs about my Dad
      and his hunting dog, and blah, blah..) male bonding in the Sentient
      Soul that cannot rise to a Love that is Brotherhood for all races,
      different religious views, etc.. this shift in "What ails Thee?"
      strikes Men and Parsifal had to miss the first pass, as so many of us
      do. We miss the first pass of Sentient and Intellectual Soul bonding
      left over from our astral development, it is only in the later
      biographical age point, in the forties, when the Spirit Self gets
      kindled, can Parsifal get the question that bothers the depth of
      manhood out.

      Which is another crisis. Men and Women are entangled in such astral
      shadows and egregores that getting a clear running line to see the
      holy catharsis of vision that Mary M witnessed at the Tomb, is fairly
      impossible to come by. Men are wrapt up in their extreme petty, ego
      and karmic game playing in the image of what Manhood appears to be
      either in America or in Israel or Islam. What is the difference
      between our worship of Ozzie and Harriot family - Leave it to Beaver
      Family - and The Soprano Family? The Soprano family are terrorists
      who believe in murder and what of our Osama bin Laden brotherhood,
      what the damn friggin hell is the difference in sentient aspects of
      the Mafia who loves his family and kills when he needs to and the
      Terrorist we fight who kills when it suits them or the Israel
      militants who kill when it suits the defending of their egregorial
      dominated Sentient retarded soul experiences? How about the word Zip?

      I would love to look at the Chlorophyll forces of the blood and the
      emancipation of the Green Man, as Christ is taken. When I get to my
      library and computer I certainly will try.

      But many thanks for the Black Rider Devachan updates on Thinking
      Manipulation in the Electro/magnetic potentials. I say Black Rider
      updates because as we are surrounded by electro magnetic forces and
      the Devachan aspects descend into tempting addiction within our
      current Astral Bodies, different forms of unions, of coitus
      connections to astral desires that are mere electro magnetic phantoms
      or mild brain coursing cell phone fields or ELF frequency field
      distortions on our etheric and astral bodies.. We have enormous juice
      to understand the slow descent of electro magnetic forces into our
      soul life and the new addictions of the Nine levels of the psychic
      structure of Man that they will infect.

      Bradford
    • danifyou@tv.videotron.ca
      Dear Bradford, You brought the Color Spectrum Goetheanistic Door to Light. As the 7 Pure Colors of the Rainbow origin in Light, soak, equally Bright are the
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 1, 2002
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        Dear Bradford,

        You brought the Color Spectrum Goetheanistic Door to Light.
        As the 7 Pure Colors of the Rainbow origin in Light, soak, equally Bright are the Grail Knights full of Insights!
        Rainbow Bridge Pot of Gold-Rich!
        INRIched!

        So, the Green Man is of the Green Wise (Blood Complementary Color) unFallen Living in Devachan Above right?
        But Hermes Time, Emerald Tablet, "Abba" the Astral Cipher, Father, Alpha/Omega Christ came here and again Return Now Shamballa-calling for a Meal(Hear of Krishna the Flute of Joy Inviting us to Drink the Ambroisial Nectar) on the Etheric Second Floor,
        so now BE,LO!
        The Kingdom of God!
        Rise,
        Consciousness Soul New Egypt 5th Epoch, get a God-Head!
        For Aurum-Horus,
        Ô Sir Grail Sure is!

        From Ore to Aurum,
        Aurora come,
        Time,
        The Warmth Return!

        Ô the Rising Sun...

        Here Comes the Sun!

        -----Original Message-----
        From: holderlin66<holderlin66@...>
        Danny brought something interesting about the cleansing of the
        Sentient Soul forces of Magdalene recently. This insight brings us to
        the Astral Body, and Gullvieg Gold problem. In Biblical studies where
        we want to isolate the Purification of the Astral body and connect it
        with why Magdalene was allowed to SEE/Hear in the occult sense, the
        Newly Born Spirit Man, the future Human Being the walking, talking
        Resurrected New Human Immortal Form ahead of others?

        Casting out 7 entrenched addictive forces in the Sentient Soul, 7
        fallen devachan forces that are the shadow side of the higher
        development of the Spirit Self, meant that Mary Magdalene had a
        cleared mirror. She wept anguishing tears before the Mystery of
        Golgotha. Her Passion and the higher purification of her soul was
        quivering with the highest resonation of un-joy. Of Loss, of agony,
        of empathy, of the abyss of what if nothing, what if never again?

        Her Golden Hair, her Gullveig like entrenched witch force of Astral
        addiction went through a thrice great purification, her, like our own
        shadow side, seeds of astral addictive personality dysfunction,
        experienced what in the Astral body is sheer Love. Not only was Mary
        M. Madame M. Butterfly in the family of Lazarus, as sister to Martha
        and Laz, but as we all know, was intimate in the core focus of what
        was shimmering in the Astral Body and Noble Identity of the Human
        Being she thought she had in front of her. Her heart told her things
        that were higher than her head. She, like other deluded girl and boy
        friend relatinships, Mary M, thought she had the True Divine Man
        worthy of worship and adoration in front of her. The Astral body does
        such rehersals in all of our relationships.

        Since I am in Texas and country song community, bad country songs are
        full of this whining dysfunction of astral perception to devotion to
        your drunken, Jack Daniels, moron man. Each dysfunctional astral body
        thinking, ya, I need something to worship to caste all my attention
        on and settle my restlessness. Well if we wanted to get the kinks,
        the demons out of our psychologies and get Avarice, greed, whatever
        deadly rooted sins there are, gluttony (anorexia and bolemia as well
        as the fat pharms of males and females who eat in place of restless
        soul conditions) envy, lust.. well we could do an Astral Jerry
        Springer show, which reveals the fallen Astral forces that Mary M,
        was cleansed of, just to reveal how current and basically, infected
        is the American Psyche with these fallen Astral shadow forces.

        Not only is it infected but American media worships, adores and
        wallows in all of it just like pigs. But switching gears here,
        touching into the glitch of Kundry and how she managed to carry her
        Pathology over, and over through several incarnations as a scar
        forced upon her because of the magnitude of the Christ Event directly
        in her vicinity, we see that cleansing and healing in the Mercurial
        sense of how Christ cleansed the Astral body of Mary M.. and Parsifal
        opened the scar and healed, or at least got Kundry off her agonized
        pathological dysfunction into a redeemed conscious path of inner
        development, that shattered the power her Solar Addictions had over
        her. Parsifal as Spirit Self deed could reach into the Astral
        forces, the triad of Astral stages, Puberty, Sentient Soul and Spirit
        Self and cleanse the dysfunction or allow her to regain her I AM
        equilibrium and begin her own path of higher purification.

        "What ails Thee?" of course is the male problem of dysfunction that
        is latent in the tale. Men, when either tempted with Power as in the
        Ring, of Lord of the Rings, or in mid-life crisis with corvette and
        beautiful blondes... well the sting of power in the false groin,
        Cancer that could only be soothed when the Lance that had stung the
        Jesus Being touched his groin.. In other words, the male suffers from
        moving from Macho Reproductive Soprano kind of Dad, producing off
        spring and that type of love (more country western songs about my Dad
        and his hunting dog, and blah, blah..) male bonding in the Sentient
        Soul that cannot rise to a Love that is Brotherhood for all races,
        different religious views, etc.. this shift in "What ails Thee?"
        strikes Men and Parsifal had to miss the first pass, as so many of us
        do. We miss the first pass of Sentient and Intellectual Soul bonding
        left over from our astral development, it is only in the later
        biographical age point, in the forties, when the Spirit Self gets
        kindled, can Parsifal get the question that bothers the depth of
        manhood out.

        Which is another crisis. Men and Women are entangled in such astral
        shadows and egregores that getting a clear running line to see the
        holy catharsis of vision that Mary M witnessed at the Tomb, is fairly
        impossible to come by. Men are wrapt up in their extreme petty, ego
        and karmic game playing in the image of what Manhood appears to be
        either in America or in Israel or Islam. What is the difference
        between our worship of Ozzie and Harriot family - Leave it to Beaver
        Family - and The Soprano Family? The Soprano family are terrorists
        who believe in murder and what of our Osama bin Laden brotherhood,
        what the damn friggin hell is the difference in sentient aspects of
        the Mafia who loves his family and kills when he needs to and the
        Terrorist we fight who kills when it suits them or the Israel
        militants who kill when it suits the defending of their egregorial
        dominated Sentient retarded soul experiences? How about the word Zip?

        I would love to look at the Chlorophyll forces of the blood and the
        emancipation of the Green Man, as Christ is taken. When I get to my
        library and computer I certainly will try.

        But many thanks for the Black Rider Devachan updates on Thinking
        Manipulation in the Electro/magnetic potentials. I say Black Rider
        updates because as we are surrounded by electro magnetic forces and
        the Devachan aspects descend into tempting addiction within our
        current Astral Bodies, different forms of unions, of coitus
        connections to astral desires that are mere electro magnetic phantoms
        or mild brain coursing cell phone fields or ELF frequency field
        distortions on our etheric and astral bodies.. We have enormous juice
        to understand the slow descent of electro magnetic forces into our
        soul life and the new addictions of the Nine levels of the psychic
        structure of Man that they will infect.

        Bradford




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      • holderlin66
        ... Additions to Magdalene research Danny brought something interesting about the cleansing of the ... to ... where ... it ... Further Research In the complex
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 4, 2002
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          --- In anthroposophy@y..., "holderlin66" <holderlin66@h...> wrote:

          Additions to Magdalene research

          Danny brought something interesting about the cleansing of the
          > Sentient Soul forces of Magdalene recently. This insight brings us
          to
          > the Astral Body, and Gullvieg Gold problem. In Biblical studies
          where
          > we want to isolate the Purification of the Astral body and connect
          it
          > with why Magdalene was allowed to SEE/Hear in the occult sense, the
          > Newly Born Spirit Man, the future Human Being the walking, talking
          > Resurrected New Human Immortal Form ahead of others?

          Further Research

          In the complex workings of the Golgotha Event riddles of research
          continue to occupy our minds. First, if you are just entering into
          discussions of the Golgotha Event, your tools of research are still
          working with Dear Jesus. But Dear Jesus includes Dear Buddha, Dear
          Zarathustra and Dear John. Now I don't wish to make lite of the
          complexities of the Golgotha event, which seemed so simple when you
          were a child and thought like a child and spoke like a child, but the
          Golgotha Events are the most complicated threads to untangle.

          Clairaudience

          One of those threads continues to focus our attention on how Mary
          Magdalene was given the first Occult hearing and Occult Seeing
          baptism of the Vulcan Being of the Resurrected Christ Human Form. To
          attain Occult Hearing, as in St. Paul, when he heard Christ in the
          tones of who it was who was harming him.. you see we have Occult
          Hearing as a capacity, clairaudience indicates certain attainment in
          occult development.

          The intuitive art of "clear hearing" an inner or outer "voice" or
          sound for divination purposes. Clairaudience by itself is quite rare
          in comparison to Clairvoyance. The best known clairaudient in the
          western world is probably Joan of Arc, who heard voices urging her to
          perform a special task.

          But now we can list, Mary Magdalene-St.Paul and Joan of Arc as well
          as Whoopi Goldberg in the wonderful and semi-serious film, "Ghost".
          But the point is that Mary Magdalene Heard occultly and saw occultly
          after, a day after, the anguishing and harrowing catastrophe she
          experienced just an evening earlier. Had she slept at all? Did she
          wander in stunned numbness, as we do with death, tragedy etc.?
          Getting closer to the mood that Magdalene carries is brought home by
          Grunewald's painting of Magdalene. Here the dumb blond, the emotional
          Intelligence, is caught on canvas, by an occultist, Grunewald, with
          Lazarus/John and the already departed John The Baptist, along with
          Mary Magdalene below the Cross.

          To imagine the Astral body going through an Alchemical transformation
          of this magnitude is to add to Danny's perception that Mary Magdalene
          was the most transformed Sentient/Astral and emotive intelligence
          yet. The quivering ringing forces that allow our hearts to see in the
          Tragedy and loss and devastation of loved ones, see the actual occult
          and spiritual world, was in high quivering resonation in Magdalene
          after Golgotha. Hamlet with the loss of his beloved, true Father, is
          able to see beyond the threshold, along with others who had mourned
          the loss as well. As stated, the Intellectual Soul wants to make
          light of this world and does not want to include it in real
          education. For souls like Sarah and Horatio we need to underline the
          difference between normal fallen education and real education.
          Presently real education is mere Intellectual Soul hog slop that
          passes for news or Jerry Springer, "Magdalene nightmares".

          But here it gets complicated. Golgotha is complicated and those who
          want simple answers to the most complicated event of Mankind, had
          better grow into the Consciousness Soul, for Spiritual Science stands
          on the Intellectual Soul and releases vast, higher research works
          from the higher regions of soul development awaiting our lumbering,
          exaperating, egotistical cunning.

          Jesus/has the emotional Astral Body of the Buddha Being. Highly
          transformed. So we have to digest the fact that Magdalene and Jesus,
          as has been indicated in many movies relating to Magdalene and Jesus
          that a link to Golden Emotional content exists. This Golden force is
          seen in how Jesus approaches Magdalene about her adultry.

          Magdalene was initiated in female mysteries of the body and was not
          merely a whore, or ran a whorehouse, rather the cultural mysteries of
          the female and the deeper female mysteries of the body were part of
          Magdalene's living substance, her golden, shimmering, dumb blond
          Astral body. Magdalene annoints Christ, Initiates the real "Washing
          of the Feet" ceremony that Christ takes up at the Last Supper. The
          annointing of precious oil on the feet and hair as an Initiation
          statement came out of the deep forces of the heart of Magdalene.
          Really, we could go very deeply into how Jesus/Buddha felt the full
          stream of Higher Compassion awake in Him, great cosmic emotional
          tides that brought us to the Initiate level experience of "The
          Washing of the Feet" as an etheric slate cleaning that would put the
          footsteps of the destiny of an individual on constant compass toward
          the Christ event. Think of it!

          But since this powerful transformation of the Astral Hearing and
          Seeing of Christ is given to Magdalene, as she is baptized first, she
          also baptized Jesus with oils first. Now my point is to bring the
          Gold forces, the shimmering hair, and the full emotional intelligence
          of the Astral body that Mary Magdalene offers to the Golgotha Mystery
          as ancient Aprhodite, as Good Freya and Good Friday, the most tragic
          and stunning emotionally wringing event of Magdalene's biography, is
          crowned by Occult Seeing and Occult Hearing.

          So in this potent Astral Transformation into Gold Perception we have
          to do with the power of the Golden vision and the Sun Being. Since
          Odhinn and Buddha the foundation and background of the Jesus Astral
          Body, we come to a connection between Gulvieg and Magdalene. From the
          fallen infected Astral, luciferically tainted forces, of the witch
          Gulvieg, who was clearly in the Odhinn spiritual structure... Odhinn
          and his psychic structure and the Norse Gods are really the tableau
          of the psychic body of the developed human spirit, when all is said
          and done. Gulveig is that part of the Astral forces that have fallen
          into the false vanity of Gold. We encounter this Gold in "The Green
          Snake and Beautiful Lily" and we see how the transformation of this
          Gold is Steiner's most important riddle.

          So, here we come to some deeper secrets regarding Norse mythology,
          Gulvieg the witch, who Odhinn burns three times in the fire, He tries
          to cleanse the infection in the Astral body that will hinder humanity
          as they try to Think and See the Gold of the Risen Christ. So Danny
          suggested and I concur, that Mary Magdalene had the most powerfully
          transformed Emotive, Sentient Soul on the Planet. This comes very
          close to the Manas of Parsifal and Kundry. Was Magdalene the former
          Golden Girl, Gulvieg, that Jesus/Odhinn identified and transformed,
          and does the Emotive, Heart Intelligence now have an Initiate of the
          transformed level of Gulvieg the Fallen witch, who recognized the
          Gold of the Risen Christ first?

          Some older insights connected to this idea:

          http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/world/anceur/my-ebt3.htm

          "There is a suggestive connection between Loki and Gullveig, who
          represents
          thirst for gold and who was instrumental in instigating the primal
          war in
          heaven between the Vanir and the Aesir -- powers that refused to
          imbody, and
          powers that brought creation into being. There are, as always, a
          number of
          meanings to every myth. Gullveig is in one sense the parallel of the
          Oriental concept trishna, thirst for life, and may also apply to
          greed for
          wealth and other possessions; however it must certainly pertain also
          to the
          yearning for wisdom in the human mind. The alchemists used the same
          idea in
          their laboratory retorts, physical and symbolic. In the Edda tale,
          Gullveig
          is hoisted over the fire on the spears of the gods -- thrice burnt,
          thrice
          reborn, this Norse phoenix emerges with each purification more
          beautiful. On
          the opposite side of the coin, her name has been associated with
          witchcraft
          and sorcery -- she is much in demand among evil peoples, for the gold
          of
          wisdom can have many uses. In planet earth, deposits of gold are said
          to be
          the tears shed by Freya while she awaits her lover -- humanity -- who
          seeks
          her throughout the worlds. When reunited, she becomes Menglad --
          "jewel-happy."

          the three sisters who gaze respectively into the Past, the
          Present, and the Future -- make known the decree of Fate (Karma,
          Orlog), but
          men are conscious only of the Present. But when Gultweig comes (the
          golden
          ore) "the bewitching enchantress who, thrice cast into the fire,
          arises each
          time more beautiful, and fills the souls of gods and men with
          unapproachable
          longing, then the Norns . . . enter into being, and the blessed peace
          of
          childhood's dreams passes away, and Sin comes into existence with all
          its
          evil consequences . . ." and KARMA (See "Asgard and the Gods," p. 10-
          12).
          The thrice purified Gold is -- Manas, the Conscious Soul..."

          Gold was something very different in the Halls of the Norse Gods, at
          one
          time. Now Danny was describing the descent and now we ascribe to the
          ascent
          of Gold. Here is the riddle. The Fall of Gold, the greed of Gold
          entered
          with Gulveig the Witch.

          But notice that she is set in the fire three times. Finally this Gold
          appears as Manas... Manas is really Spirit Self and since the quote
          was
          taken from Blavatsky, we can now add something to how the gold is
          given the
          quality we have been indicating for weeks. "The New Gold Standard of
          the
          Heart". Words and Thoughts that have the Etheric Christ in them and
          that we
          are the new Gold Standard.

          The Witch Gulveig infects the heavens with a false Gold Idea as man's
          astral
          body descends. It so happens that there are three fires of the Astral
          body
          that Gulveig must be burned in to make this new Gold.

          At first the Teenage gets an Astral Body - its is certainly fallen
          gold,
          fools gold with mixed substance in it.

          Later the Sentient Soul period begins to transmute this gold, and
          refine
          this gold from the initial thrust into the body of the sizzling,
          crackling,
          fires of the astral body.

          This refinement of Gold continues through the Intellectual and
          Consciousness
          Soul.. at this level.. the Third offical bath, the Manas quality of
          Gold has
          achieved something like Angelic Thinking and certainly the Etheric
          Gold
          Standard we are aiming at. This part of the biography is Spirit Self
          or
          Manas.

          So Astral body
          Sentient body
          Spirit Self

          Three fires but during each one is refining the essence of the Gold
          substance in oneself so one can see, hear, sense and become the new
          Gold
          Standard for Earth.

          http://www.nycpagan.com/gullveig.html

          "despite the "pleasing prophecies" she made in Stanza 22 of the lay.
          Jaan
          Puhvel translates Gullveig's name into "gold drunk". (Puhvel, 211).
          The gods
          even went so far as to take three attempts on her life by burning,
          all of
          which failed.

          Unlike the volva in Balder's Draumar, who is summoned from the dead
          by
          Odhinn against her will to give prophecy , with every word coming in
          reluctance (Ellis, 153), Gullveig's words are calculated. She offers
          two
          types of mantic wisdom to Odhinn. Hilda Roderick Ellis describes
          these as
          "knowledge of the past being as important to the future, and both
          being
          revealed by one special wisdom beyond the reach of gods and men
          alike; for
          the volva having traced the history of the worlds proceeds to outline
          their
          ultimate destiny." (Ellis, 153).

          Gullveig has summoned Odhinn for a meeting. Odin has attended, but
          both are
          aware of the motives involved, as it is inherent to the natures of
          both
          figures. Gullveig and Odhinn are equals on many levels, although Odin
          has
          far higher social standing, power, and wealth. One striking parallel
          is that
          both have made a startling personal sacrifice resulting mythic
          transformation in order to attain wisdom.

          To Odhinn, it was his hanging on Yggdrasil and his enlightened
          self-sacrifice of his eye in order to attain the runes. This is one
          sacrifice that clearly paid off and has given him immeasurable
          benefits
          including the eighteen rune charms referenced in the Havamal that
          allow him
          to unlock the figurative DNA to the universe, a gift passed along to
          the
          gods, and through Heimdall to humans as discussed in the Eddic lay
          Rigsthula.

          Gullveig learned of the end of the world and all of its horrors. She
          learned
          how to attain some level of resistance to mortality and excellent
          magickal
          and shamanic skills. Her mythic transformation was to be speared and
          triple
          burning. Voluspa Stanza 21 states "

          Casting out 7 entrenched addictive forces in the Sentient Soul, 7
          > fallen devachan forces that are the shadow side of the higher
          > development of the Spirit Self, meant that Mary Magdalene had a
          > cleared mirror. She wept anguishing tears before the Mystery of
          > Golgotha. Her Passion and the higher purification of her soul was
          > quivering with the highest resonation of un-joy. Of Loss, of agony,
          > of empathy, of the abyss of what if nothing, what if never again?
          >
          > Her Golden Hair, her Gullveig like entrenched witch force of Astral
          > addiction went through a thrice great purification, her, like our
          own
          > shadow side, seeds of astral addictive personality dysfunction,
          > experienced what in the Astral body is sheer Love. Not only was
          Mary
          > M. Madame M. Butterfly in the family of Lazarus, as sister to
          Martha
          > and Laz, but as we all know, was intimate in the core focus of what
          > was shimmering in the Astral Body and Noble Identity of the Human
          > Being she thought she had in front of her. Her heart told her
          things
          > that were higher than her head. She, like other deluded girl and
          boy
          > friend relatinships, Mary M, thought she had the True Divine Man
          > worthy of worship and adoration in front of her. The Astral body
          does
          > such rehersals in all of our relationships.

          Bradford
        • elaineupton2001
          Hello brave Bradford, dazzling Danny, and all, This is my second question--or set of questions and comments-- to youtoday on this thread, Bradford, Danny, and
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 5, 2002
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            Hello brave Bradford, dazzling Danny, and all,

            This is my second question--or set of questions and comments-- to
            youtoday on this thread, Bradford, Danny, and all interested. I
            already asked in another post today about the Amfortas-Magdalene
            connection that your subject headings suggests, and about the figures
            in the painting as you see it.

            Now, to your other post on the Magdalene. Thanks for the rich
            insights on Clairaudience! The Magadalene HEARS ("S/he that hath ears
            to hear, let her hear."). By the way, I wrote a poem once about the
            Magdalene and that marvelous day when she heard the Master call her
            name. I'll see if I can find it... --Anyway, my question is on what
            you write here (where you answer part of my previous question about
            the painting). You write:

            > Getting closer to the mood that Magdalene carries is brought home
            by
            > Grunewald's painting of Magdalene. Here the dumb blond, the
            emotional
            > Intelligence, is caught on canvas, by an occultist, Grunewald, with
            > Lazarus/John and the already departed John The Baptist, along with
            > Mary Magdalene below the Cross.
            >
            > To imagine the Astral body going through an Alchemical
            transformation
            > of this magnitude is to add to Danny's perception that Mary
            Magdalene
            > was the most transformed Sentient/Astral and emotive intelligence
            > yet. The quivering ringing forces that allow our hearts to see in
            the
            > Tragedy and loss and devastation of loved ones, see the actual
            occult
            > and spiritual world, was in high quivering resonation in Magdalene
            > after Golgotha. ((...))


            And later you say:
            >((..)) Golden emotional content. This Golden force is seen in how
            >Jesus approaches Magdalene about her adultery. Magdalene was
            >initiated in female mysteries of the body and was not merely a
            >whore.((...)) And the deeper female mysteries of the body were part
            >of Magdalene's living substance, her golden, shimmering, dumb blond
            >Astral Body ((...))***********



            Actually, the Magdalene's head (--both female figures' heads--are
            covered in the painting (smile). About the "dumb blond" aspect, I
            would raise a question. Is she really "dumb blond"? --I see the
            Magdalene as much more connected to the Black Madonna, or the Senora
            Nuestra de Guadelupe--not exactly her as in all representations of
            her in the Church, but as a metamorphosis of, or an expression of, a
            copy, in the positive sense, of her...She is the feminine that is
            transformed and redeemed, or said in another way, the Magdalene is
            the transformed dark womb of Earth, and the darkness becomes
            illuminated in Gold--Gold (whose brightness is also expressed in a
            kind of white-gold, like the Sun, but it is not an abstract white--
            masculine, but touched with the Dark of Earth, thus, the Gold that is
            deeper). But she is also the redeemer, bringing the
            abstract "whiteness" down into the dark realm of the vaginal
            mouth/cave and the womb, the warm heart/h of Earth.

            I don't know where the "dumb blond" belongs in world mythology. But I
            don't think she's Mary Magdalene. I was born a woman this time round,
            and there is a hearing that is in the dark womb--the womb has ears,
            so to say....... Perhaps the dumb blond idea, which many of us,
            including me, have absorbed to a degree, is an invention of a mind
            that is afraid of, or a stranger to, the dark power of the womb.

            Still, I find your post full of riches, especially for example when
            you speak of the Consciousness Soul ( a topic I am hot on lately),
            and you write of Spiritual Science and of present day conventional
            (fallen) education:

            >the
            > difference between normal fallen education and real education.
            > Presently real education is mere Intellectual Soul hog slop that
            > passes for news or Jerry Springer, "Magdalene nightmares".
            >
            > But here it gets complicated. Golgotha is complicated and those who
            > want simple answers to the most complicated event of Mankind, had
            > better grow into the Consciousness Soul, for Spiritual Science
            stands
            > on the Intellectual Soul and releases vast, higher research works
            > from the higher regions of soul development awaiting our lumbering,
            > exaperating, egotistical cunning.

            Yes, I presently teach part-time in a college and much of what goes
            on is what I would call deeply, tragically "fallen education." --
            Moreover, about Spiritual Science, yes, it is rich that you point out
            that it stands on the "Intellectual Soul," and that is, it seems to
            me, where so many anthropops become stuck, in that Intellectual Soul
            (I.S) phase, without evolving on to the cumulative experience
            provided in the Consciousness Soul--C.S. (the C.S. does not cancel
            the I.S., I see, but subsumes and transforms it, it seems to me...)

            A note on the Grunewald painting: the colors are gold, gold-white,
            red, and there is the dark background, with touches of green (Earth?)
            Red--a kind of blood. I see this now as actually not so much darkness
            transformed, but as "white" transformed, tinged with gold, deepened
            in its contact with Earth. EArth is the giver, dark Earth, the dark
            Womb of birth, and as you, Bradford, point out, amazingly, and
            bravely: Mary M. initiates Jesus!--So, this crucified Christ and Mary
            M. are fulfillments of each other, give to each other, initiate each
            other. What a different idea of Marriage!

            ((Also, this point of Mary M. initiating Jesus reminds me of ancient
            practices where a wise woman initiates young men into the sexual
            mysteries. Of course, today, there are other needs, because we
            evolve...))

            Blessings!
            elaine
          • Myaso
            Hello All, Recently I read in Steiner s lectures about karma relationships that there is no physical matter outside Earth - only at least etheric. And he
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 5, 2002
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              Hello All,


              Recently I read in Steiner's lectures about karma relationships that
              there is no physical matter outside Earth - only at least etheric.
              And he repeated this statement several times. Maybe I incorrectly
              interpreted his words? Or really he thought this way?


              Best regards,
              Myaso mailto:mzyaso@...
            • DRStarman2001@aol.com
              ... ********You read quite correctly, my friend. Matter as it behaves on earth is found only on earth; even on the other planets close to the earth it will be
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 5, 2002
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                mzyaso@... writes:
                Hello All,
                  Recently I read in Steiner's lectures about karma relationships that
                  there is no physical matter outside Earth - only at least etheric.
                  And he repeated this statement several times. Maybe I incorrectly
                  interpreted his words? Or really he thought this way?
                Best regards,
                Myaso                            mailto:mzyaso@...


                ********You read quite correctly, my friend. Matter as it behaves on earth is found only on earth; even on the other planets close to the earth it will be found to behave differently, and it becomes more and more so that further away you go. Our Ahrimanic illusionary science of course believes the exact opposite, and so distorts and misinterprets all the evidence which shows the truth, from sunspots to the braided rings of Saturn; but the surrounding universe is not at all like the three-dimensional picture of it we are able to obtain from within our solar system, and all the proud scientific framework of the life and deaths of stars and grand cosmological schemes built up in the last 200 years or so are the merest fantasy-- -- -- which the beings called the Gnomes, who make it all appear that way, find vastly amusing, as can be found in Steiner's fourth Mystery Play.

                Dr. Starman
                http://www.DrStarman.net
              • Myaso
                Hello DRStarman2001, ... Dac ********You read quite correctly, my friend. Matter as it behaves on earth is Dac found only on earth; even on the other planets
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 5, 2002
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                  Hello DRStarman2001,

                  Friday, December 6, 2002, 3:08:56 AM, you wrote:

                  >> Hello All,
                  >> Recently I read in Steiner's lectures about karma relationships that
                  >> there is no physical matter outside Earth - only at least etheric.
                  >> And he repeated this statement several times. Maybe I incorrectly
                  >> interpreted his words? Or really he thought this way?
                  >> Best regards,
                  >> Myaso mailto:mzyaso@...

                  Dac> ********You read quite correctly, my friend. Matter as it behaves on earth is
                  Dac> found only on earth; even on the other planets close to the earth it will be
                  Dac> found to behave differently, and it becomes more and more so that further
                  Dac> away you go. Our Ahrimanic illusionary science of course believes the exact
                  Dac> opposite, and so distorts and misinterprets all the evidence which shows the
                  Dac> truth, from sunspots to the braided rings of Saturn; but the surrounding
                  Dac> universe is not at all like the three-dimensional picture of it we are able
                  Dac> to obtain from within our solar system, and all the proud scientific
                  Dac> framework of the life and deaths of stars and grand cosmological schemes
                  Dac> built up in the last 200 years or so are the merest fantasy-- -- -- which the
                  Dac> beings called the Gnomes, who make it all appear that way, find vastly
                  Dac> amusing, as can be found in Steiner's fourth Mystery Play.

                  BUT what can you say about stones which were brought from the Moon?
                  They looks and behaves like earth matter. And photos and data from
                  Mars and Venus also shows that matter is quite like that on Earth.
                  That's why I ask. It seems to me unclear.

                  Best regards,
                  Myaso mailto:mzyaso@...
                • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                  ... *******We have as yet only been personally to the moon, and landed machines on Mars and Venus, all of which are very close to this earthly sphere. Matter
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 6, 2002
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                    mzyaso@... writes:
                    >>   Recently I read in Steiner's lectures about karma relationships that
                    >>   there is no physical matter outside Earth - only at least etheric.
                    >>   And he repeated this statement several times. Maybe I incorrectly
                    >>   interpreted his words? Or really he thought this way?
                    >> Best regards,
                    >> Myaso                            mailto:mzyaso@...

                    Dac> ********You read quite correctly, my friend. Matter as it behaves on earth is
                    Dac> found only on earth; even on the other planets close to the earth it will be
                    Dac> found to behave differently, and it becomes more and more so that further
                    Dac> away you go. Our Ahrimanic illusionary science of course believes the exact
                    Dac> opposite, and so distorts and misinterprets all the evidence which shows the
                    Dac> truth, from sunspots to the braided rings of Saturn; but the surrounding
                    Dac> universe is not at all like the three-dimensional picture of it we are able
                    Dac> to obtain from within our solar system, and all the proud scientific
                    Dac> framework of the life and deaths of stars and grand cosmological schemes
                    Dac> built up in the last 200 years or so are the merest fantasy-- -- -- which the
                    Dac> beings called the Gnomes, who make it all appear that way, find vastly
                    Dac> amusing, as can be found in Steiner's fourth Mystery Play.

                    BUT what can you say about stones which were brought from the Moon?
                    They looks and behaves like earth matter. And photos and data from
                    Mars and Venus also shows that matter is quite like that on Earth.
                    That's why I ask. It seems to me unclear.
                    Best regards,
                    Myaso                 


                    *******We have as yet only been personally to the moon, and landed machines on Mars and Venus, all of which are very close to this earthly sphere. Matter becomes more and more like it is on earth the closer one comes to it; hence the so-called "inner planets" of Mercury, Venus and Mars all have some solid state of substance. Once you pass outside of the asteroid belt, however, clearly the planets are quite different, but materialistic ideas minimize the differences and try to grasp them as being something like our local environment. (The same with the Sun, which we imagine to be a ball of burning gas.) Steiner said that Jupiter is composed only of warmth and air, while Saturn is composed only of warmth. The mind that can only think of "particles" sees particles everywhere, so it says that's what Saturn's rings must be composed of, the bodies of comets must be gas and dust, etc. What is actually evidence that there is no material dimension is interpreted as meaning it's there, but just very fine. The observed phenomena which do not agree with the ruling paradigm are "damned", to use Charles Fort's phrase.

                       Moreover, although the Moon's matter is in a solid state, it already shows great differences from earthly matter, and more will be discovered the more we examine it. This is even more true of the substance of Venus and Mars. Scientists working under the materialistic paradigm are looking for the similarities, not the differences, so that's all they appear to find. Look up the braided rings of Saturn, for instance, and how that was suppressed.

                    Dr. Starman
                    http://www.DrStarman.net
                  • danifyou@tv.videotron.ca
                    In the What ails thee? , if one wants to speak from the Heart truly.... What aches thee: King Kong over Psyche. The Eternal Feminine leads us here into Wound,
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 6, 2002
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                      In the "What ails thee?", if one wants to speak from the Heart truly....
                      What aches thee:
                      King Kong over Psyche.

                      The Eternal Feminine leads us here into Wound, into Cry over the Soiling of Beauty,
                      Mode-earn Ring of Power UnRomantic society...
                      Mary on the Cross, Legions of Fallen men rejoice at the Lucifer-them full-Ahriman Straight-Jacket Might of Lead-Astray Fall-continuity, Damned-Decadent-Adam Duplicity...
                      Enforced!
                      Warlock-enforced Might of Maya-Matrix-Morpheus-Sleep Ô Beauty-easy-prey...

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: holderlin66<holderlin66@...>
                      --- In anthroposophy@y..., "holderlin66" <holderlin66@h...> wrote:

                      Additions to Magdalene research

                      Danny brought something interesting about the cleansing of the
                      > Sentient Soul forces of Magdalene recently. This insight brings us
                      to
                      > the Astral Body, and Gullvieg Gold problem. In Biblical studies
                      where
                      > we want to isolate the Purification of the Astral body and connect
                      it
                      > with why Magdalene was allowed to SEE/Hear in the occult sense, the
                      > Newly Born Spirit Man, the future Human Being the walking, talking
                      > Resurrected New Human Immortal Form ahead of others?

                      Further Research

                      In the complex workings of the Golgotha Event riddles of research
                      continue to occupy our minds. First, if you are just entering into
                      discussions of the Golgotha Event, your tools of research are still
                      working with Dear Jesus. But Dear Jesus includes Dear Buddha, Dear
                      Zarathustra and Dear John. Now I don't wish to make lite of the
                      complexities of the Golgotha event, which seemed so simple when you
                      were a child and thought like a child and spoke like a child, but the
                      Golgotha Events are the most complicated threads to untangle.

                      Clairaudience

                      One of those threads continues to focus our attention on how Mary
                      Magdalene was given the first Occult hearing and Occult Seeing
                      baptism of the Vulcan Being of the Resurrected Christ Human Form. To
                      attain Occult Hearing, as in St. Paul, when he heard Christ in the
                      tones of who it was who was harming him.. you see we have Occult
                      Hearing as a capacity, clairaudience indicates certain attainment in
                      occult development.

                      The intuitive art of "clear hearing" an inner or outer "voice" or
                      sound for divination purposes. Clairaudience by itself is quite rare
                      in comparison to Clairvoyance. The best known clairaudient in the
                      western world is probably Joan of Arc, who heard voices urging her to
                      perform a special task.

                      But now we can list, Mary Magdalene-St.Paul and Joan of Arc as well
                      as Whoopi Goldberg in the wonderful and semi-serious film, "Ghost".
                      But the point is that Mary Magdalene Heard occultly and saw occultly
                      after, a day after, the anguishing and harrowing catastrophe she
                      experienced just an evening earlier. Had she slept at all? Did she
                      wander in stunned numbness, as we do with death, tragedy etc.?
                      Getting closer to the mood that Magdalene carries is brought home by
                      Grunewald's painting of Magdalene. Here the dumb blond, the emotional
                      Intelligence, is caught on canvas, by an occultist, Grunewald, with
                      Lazarus/John and the already departed John The Baptist, along with
                      Mary Magdalene below the Cross.

                      To imagine the Astral body going through an Alchemical transformation
                      of this magnitude is to add to Danny's perception that Mary Magdalene
                      was the most transformed Sentient/Astral and emotive intelligence
                      yet. The quivering ringing forces that allow our hearts to see in the
                      Tragedy and loss and devastation of loved ones, see the actual occult
                      and spiritual world, was in high quivering resonation in Magdalene
                      after Golgotha. Hamlet with the loss of his beloved, true Father, is
                      able to see beyond the threshold, along with others who had mourned
                      the loss as well. As stated, the Intellectual Soul wants to make
                      light of this world and does not want to include it in real
                      education. For souls like Sarah and Horatio we need to underline the
                      difference between normal fallen education and real education.
                      Presently real education is mere Intellectual Soul hog slop that
                      passes for news or Jerry Springer, "Magdalene nightmares".

                      But here it gets complicated. Golgotha is complicated and those who
                      want simple answers to the most complicated event of Mankind, had
                      better grow into the Consciousness Soul, for Spiritual Science stands
                      on the Intellectual Soul and releases vast, higher research works
                      from the higher regions of soul development awaiting our lumbering,
                      exaperating, egotistical cunning.

                      Jesus/has the emotional Astral Body of the Buddha Being. Highly
                      transformed. So we have to digest the fact that Magdalene and Jesus,
                      as has been indicated in many movies relating to Magdalene and Jesus
                      that a link to Golden Emotional content exists. This Golden force is
                      seen in how Jesus approaches Magdalene about her adultry.

                      Magdalene was initiated in female mysteries of the body and was not
                      merely a whore, or ran a whorehouse, rather the cultural mysteries of
                      the female and the deeper female mysteries of the body were part of
                      Magdalene's living substance, her golden, shimmering, dumb blond
                      Astral body. Magdalene annoints Christ, Initiates the real "Washing
                      of the Feet" ceremony that Christ takes up at the Last Supper. The
                      annointing of precious oil on the feet and hair as an Initiation
                      statement came out of the deep forces of the heart of Magdalene.
                      Really, we could go very deeply into how Jesus/Buddha felt the full
                      stream of Higher Compassion awake in Him, great cosmic emotional
                      tides that brought us to the Initiate level experience of "The
                      Washing of the Feet" as an etheric slate cleaning that would put the
                      footsteps of the destiny of an individual on constant compass toward
                      the Christ event. Think of it!

                      But since this powerful transformation of the Astral Hearing and
                      Seeing of Christ is given to Magdalene, as she is baptized first, she
                      also baptized Jesus with oils first. Now my point is to bring the
                      Gold forces, the shimmering hair, and the full emotional intelligence
                      of the Astral body that Mary Magdalene offers to the Golgotha Mystery
                      as ancient Aprhodite, as Good Freya and Good Friday, the most tragic
                      and stunning emotionally wringing event of Magdalene's biography, is
                      crowned by Occult Seeing and Occult Hearing.

                      So in this potent Astral Transformation into Gold Perception we have
                      to do with the power of the Golden vision and the Sun Being. Since
                      Odhinn and Buddha the foundation and background of the Jesus Astral
                      Body, we come to a connection between Gulvieg and Magdalene. From the
                      fallen infected Astral, luciferically tainted forces, of the witch
                      Gulvieg, who was clearly in the Odhinn spiritual structure... Odhinn
                      and his psychic structure and the Norse Gods are really the tableau
                      of the psychic body of the developed human spirit, when all is said
                      and done. Gulveig is that part of the Astral forces that have fallen
                      into the false vanity of Gold. We encounter this Gold in "The Green
                      Snake and Beautiful Lily" and we see how the transformation of this
                      Gold is Steiner's most important riddle.

                      So, here we come to some deeper secrets regarding Norse mythology,
                      Gulvieg the witch, who Odhinn burns three times in the fire, He tries
                      to cleanse the infection in the Astral body that will hinder humanity
                      as they try to Think and See the Gold of the Risen Christ. So Danny
                      suggested and I concur, that Mary Magdalene had the most powerfully
                      transformed Emotive, Sentient Soul on the Planet. This comes very
                      close to the Manas of Parsifal and Kundry. Was Magdalene the former
                      Golden Girl, Gulvieg, that Jesus/Odhinn identified and transformed,
                      and does the Emotive, Heart Intelligence now have an Initiate of the
                      transformed level of Gulvieg the Fallen witch, who recognized the
                      Gold of the Risen Christ first?

                      Some older insights connected to this idea:

                      http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/world/anceur/my-ebt3.htm

                      "There is a suggestive connection between Loki and Gullveig, who
                      represents
                      thirst for gold and who was instrumental in instigating the primal
                      war in
                      heaven between the Vanir and the Aesir -- powers that refused to
                      imbody, and
                      powers that brought creation into being. There are, as always, a
                      number of
                      meanings to every myth. Gullveig is in one sense the parallel of the
                      Oriental concept trishna, thirst for life, and may also apply to
                      greed for
                      wealth and other possessions; however it must certainly pertain also
                      to the
                      yearning for wisdom in the human mind. The alchemists used the same
                      idea in
                      their laboratory retorts, physical and symbolic. In the Edda tale,
                      Gullveig
                      is hoisted over the fire on the spears of the gods -- thrice burnt,
                      thrice
                      reborn, this Norse phoenix emerges with each purification more
                      beautiful. On
                      the opposite side of the coin, her name has been associated with
                      witchcraft
                      and sorcery -- she is much in demand among evil peoples, for the gold
                      of
                      wisdom can have many uses. In planet earth, deposits of gold are said
                      to be
                      the tears shed by Freya while she awaits her lover -- humanity -- who
                      seeks
                      her throughout the worlds. When reunited, she becomes Menglad --
                      "jewel-happy."

                      the three sisters who gaze respectively into the Past, the
                      Present, and the Future -- make known the decree of Fate (Karma,
                      Orlog), but
                      men are conscious only of the Present. But when Gultweig comes (the
                      golden
                      ore) "the bewitching enchantress who, thrice cast into the fire,
                      arises each
                      time more beautiful, and fills the souls of gods and men with
                      unapproachable
                      longing, then the Norns . . . enter into being, and the blessed peace
                      of
                      childhood's dreams passes away, and Sin comes into existence with all
                      its
                      evil consequences . . ." and KARMA (See "Asgard and the Gods," p. 10-
                      12).
                      The thrice purified Gold is -- Manas, the Conscious Soul..."

                      Gold was something very different in the Halls of the Norse Gods, at
                      one
                      time. Now Danny was describing the descent and now we ascribe to the
                      ascent
                      of Gold. Here is the riddle. The Fall of Gold, the greed of Gold
                      entered
                      with Gulveig the Witch.

                      But notice that she is set in the fire three times. Finally this Gold
                      appears as Manas... Manas is really Spirit Self and since the quote
                      was
                      taken from Blavatsky, we can now add something to how the gold is
                      given the
                      quality we have been indicating for weeks. "The New Gold Standard of
                      the
                      Heart". Words and Thoughts that have the Etheric Christ in them and
                      that we
                      are the new Gold Standard.

                      The Witch Gulveig infects the heavens with a false Gold Idea as man's
                      astral
                      body descends. It so happens that there are three fires of the Astral
                      body
                      that Gulveig must be burned in to make this new Gold.

                      At first the Teenage gets an Astral Body - its is certainly fallen
                      gold,
                      fools gold with mixed substance in it.

                      Later the Sentient Soul period begins to transmute this gold, and
                      refine
                      this gold from the initial thrust into the body of the sizzling,
                      crackling,
                      fires of the astral body.

                      This refinement of Gold continues through the Intellectual and
                      Consciousness
                      Soul.. at this level.. the Third offical bath, the Manas quality of
                      Gold has
                      achieved something like Angelic Thinking and certainly the Etheric
                      Gold
                      Standard we are aiming at. This part of the biography is Spirit Self
                      or
                      Manas.

                      So Astral body
                      Sentient body
                      Spirit Self

                      Three fires but during each one is refining the essence of the Gold
                      substance in oneself so one can see, hear, sense and become the new
                      Gold
                      Standard for Earth.

                      http://www.nycpagan.com/gullveig.html

                      "despite the "pleasing prophecies" she made in Stanza 22 of the lay.
                      Jaan
                      Puhvel translates Gullveig's name into "gold drunk". (Puhvel, 211).
                      The gods
                      even went so far as to take three attempts on her life by burning,
                      all of
                      which failed.

                      Unlike the volva in Balder's Draumar, who is summoned from the dead
                      by
                      Odhinn against her will to give prophecy , with every word coming in
                      reluctance (Ellis, 153), Gullveig's words are calculated. She offers
                      two
                      types of mantic wisdom to Odhinn. Hilda Roderick Ellis describes
                      these as
                      "knowledge of the past being as important to the future, and both
                      being
                      revealed by one special wisdom beyond the reach of gods and men
                      alike; for
                      the volva having traced the history of the worlds proceeds to outline
                      their
                      ultimate destiny." (Ellis, 153).

                      Gullveig has summoned Odhinn for a meeting. Odin has attended, but
                      both are
                      aware of the motives involved, as it is inherent to the natures of
                      both
                      figures. Gullveig and Odhinn are equals on many levels, although Odin
                      has
                      far higher social standing, power, and wealth. One striking parallel
                      is that
                      both have made a startling personal sacrifice resulting mythic
                      transformation in order to attain wisdom.

                      To Odhinn, it was his hanging on Yggdrasil and his enlightened
                      self-sacrifice of his eye in order to attain the runes. This is one
                      sacrifice that clearly paid off and has given him immeasurable
                      benefits
                      including the eighteen rune charms referenced in the Havamal that
                      allow him
                      to unlock the figurative DNA to the universe, a gift passed along to
                      the
                      gods, and through Heimdall to humans as discussed in the Eddic lay
                      Rigsthula.

                      Gullveig learned of the end of the world and all of its horrors. She
                      learned
                      how to attain some level of resistance to mortality and excellent
                      magickal
                      and shamanic skills. Her mythic transformation was to be speared and
                      triple
                      burning. Voluspa Stanza 21 states "

                      Casting out 7 entrenched addictive forces in the Sentient Soul, 7
                      > fallen devachan forces that are the shadow side of the higher
                      > development of the Spirit Self, meant that Mary Magdalene had a
                      > cleared mirror. She wept anguishing tears before the Mystery of
                      > Golgotha. Her Passion and the higher purification of her soul was
                      > quivering with the highest resonation of un-joy. Of Loss, of agony,
                      > of empathy, of the abyss of what if nothing, what if never again?
                      >
                      > Her Golden Hair, her Gullveig like entrenched witch force of Astral
                      > addiction went through a thrice great purification, her, like our
                      own
                      > shadow side, seeds of astral addictive personality dysfunction,
                      > experienced what in the Astral body is sheer Love. Not only was
                      Mary
                      > M. Madame M. Butterfly in the family of Lazarus, as sister to
                      Martha
                      > and Laz, but as we all know, was intimate in the core focus of what
                      > was shimmering in the Astral Body and Noble Identity of the Human
                      > Being she thought she had in front of her. Her heart told her
                      things
                      > that were higher than her head. She, like other deluded girl and
                      boy
                      > friend relatinships, Mary M, thought she had the True Divine Man
                      > worthy of worship and adoration in front of her. The Astral body
                      does
                      > such rehersals in all of our relationships.

                      Bradford


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                    • elaineupton2001
                      Thanks, danny. You write (in reply to my question on the relationship ... truly.... ... Soiling of Beauty, ... Yes, this is helpful Parsifal is the one who
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 6, 2002
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                        Thanks, danny. You write (in reply to my question on the relationship
                        of Mary M and Amfortas, wounded fisher king):

                        > In the "What ails thee?", if one wants to speak from the Heart
                        truly....
                        > What aches thee:
                        > King Kong over Psyche.
                        >
                        > The Eternal Feminine leads us here into Wound, into Cry over the
                        Soiling of Beauty,
                        > Mode-earn Ring of Power UnRomantic society...


                        Yes, this is helpful Parsifal is the one who needs to ask the
                        question "what ails thee", but is it, then, the Eternal Feminine, the
                        Heart/h, the Mary Magdalene in Parsifal?

                        Blessings,
                        elaine
                      • Sören Groth
                        Deep in your bosom hidden door to light Deep in your blood song of a becoming God Some day - a shell of flesh as catterpillar transformed and winged you will
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 6, 2002
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                          Deep in your bosom
                          hidden door to light
                          Deep in your blood
                          song of a becoming God
                          Some day - a shell of flesh
                          as catterpillar transformed
                          and winged you will embark
                          unto the realm of certainty

                          Recognize your dark night
                          Acknowledge the mould that will create
                          Behold your dream
                          that awaits in the depths of your loins
                          Carry it to light
                          Carry it in raptorous hands
                          Wreathe your lust
                          THAT is the blood of the flowers

                          Gustav Sandgren 1945

                          (translation Sören & Ashley)
                        • Bradford Riley
                          From: elaineupton2001 ... Elaine, not only would I hope you find the poem, but there are enormous riches you have wrought here and
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 6, 2002
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                            From: "elaineupton2001" <elaineupton@...>
                            >Subject: [anthroposophy] The Magdalen--Gold or Black?-Re: Mary M and
                            >Anfortas

                            Elaine, not only would I hope you find the poem, but there are enormous
                            riches you have wrought here and I shall attempt to weave some comments
                            about the Occult Vision Grunewald brought in in relation to how the
                            Mary/Sophia in pale, bloodless faint, falling off center of the Spine and
                            how John- Lazarus/John is assigned the Sophia mysteries as the support.
                            While drawn, kneeling, hands wringing, knotted, Magdalene is depicted. Mary
                            M and Mary Mother of Jesus, can be understood in the Goethean sense as blood
                            pale, drained and the other gushing.

                            Novels developing in brains, rich with Spiritual Science lore, might look
                            upon the Astral Body of Jesus and the Magdalene Individual and imagine, I
                            mean, merely think into the idea of how would such a soul, in such linked
                            Initiation of Seeing and Hearing.. how would such an Astral body appear out
                            of sheer love? Let me say that St. Francis crossed my mind in following
                            Magdalene's love and the Astral body of the Buddha. Naturally this might
                            take some of the hot air out of the baloon, but on the other hand, in terms
                            of Novel and fiction, one can see such a powerful resonation between the
                            pupil who we know adored Buddha and sought his etheric body out in a mystery
                            center by the black sea, and we know St. Francis only incarnated one other
                            time as a small baby and didn't stay on earth long.. and now works with
                            Buddha on Mars. How great is Love? How great is devotion? Also what a
                            kindling of each other to attain deeper riches. What a change in perspective
                            of how Love remains deeper, burning brighter.. but still Love.

                            But these thoughts are places of higher intuition, not any place that the
                            fallen Intellectual Soul has interest in. In fact, the consequences of
                            Spiritual Science on thinking, history and the potential of seeing things in
                            a new light, is still transforming the world. It still urks souls very
                            deeply that they cannot even get on board what deep meaning Kundry or
                            Magdalene might reveal in the ability of the Male animus in the female body
                            to rise in itself into higher Vetical levels of Initiation. Paving the way
                            to see how love grows deeper beyond the sexes into the realm where
                            Initiation is the truest recognition of Love and Devotion, that also kindles
                            fruits of higher spriritual development in the vertical regions above the
                            Consciousness Soul. For at some point, rising higher means going deeper.

                            Thank You Elaine.


                            Magdalene is
                            >the transformed dark womb of Earth, and the darkness becomes
                            >illuminated in Gold--Gold (whose brightness is also expressed in a
                            >kind of white-gold, like the Sun, but it is not an abstract white--
                            >masculine, but touched with the Dark of Earth, thus, the Gold that is
                            >deeper). But she is also the redeemer, bringing the
                            >abstract "whiteness" down into the dark realm of the vaginal
                            >mouth/cave and the womb, the warm heart/h of Earth.
                            >
                            >I don't know where the "dumb blond" belongs in world mythology. But I
                            >don't think she's Mary Magdalene. I was born a woman this time round,
                            >and there is a hearing that is in the dark womb--the womb has ears,
                            >so to say....... Perhaps the dumb blond idea, which many of us,
                            >including me, have absorbed to a degree, is an invention of a mind
                            >that is afraid of, or a stranger to, the dark power of the womb.
                            >
                            : the colors are gold, gold-white,
                            >red, and there is the dark background, with touches of green (Earth?)
                            >Red--a kind of blood. I see this now as actually not so much darkness
                            >transformed, but as "white" transformed, tinged with gold, deepened
                            >in its contact with Earth

                            _________________________________________________________________
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                          • elaineupton2001 <elaineupton@hotmail.com>
                            Hello Bradford and all, Thanks, dear Bradford, for every blessed word here.--I ll read and re- read your post. Also, I will look for the poem I wrote on the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 7, 2002
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                              Hello Bradford and all,

                              Thanks, dear Bradford, for every blessed word here.--I'll read and re-
                              read your post. Also, I will look for the poem I wrote on the
                              Magdalene soon!--More later in reply to your post and also on a
                              related theme--Nuestra Senora de Guadelupe (Our Lady of Guadelupe),
                              whose special day is soon, and that story (of Senora de Guadelupe
                              and the peasant Juan Diego) relates, it seems to me, to the meeting
                              of Sentient Soul with Intellectual Soul, and there is the question of
                              bringing in the Consciousness Soul today.

                              Blessings,
                              elaine


                              Bradford:
                              > Elaine, not only would I hope you find the poem, but there are
                              enormous
                              > riches you have wrought here and I shall attempt to weave some
                              comments
                              > about the Occult Vision Grunewald brought in in relation to how the
                              > Mary/Sophia in pale, bloodless faint, falling off center of the
                              Spine and
                              > how John- Lazarus/John is assigned the Sophia mysteries as the
                              support.
                              > While drawn, kneeling, hands wringing, knotted, Magdalene is
                              depicted. Mary
                              > M and Mary Mother of Jesus, can be understood in the Goethean sense
                              as blood
                              > pale, drained and the other gushing.
                              >
                              > Novels developing in brains, rich with Spiritual Science lore,
                              might look
                              > upon the Astral Body of Jesus and the Magdalene Individual and
                              imagine, I
                              > mean, merely think into the idea of how would such a soul, in such
                              linked
                              > Initiation of Seeing and Hearing.. how would such an Astral body
                              appear out
                              > of sheer love? Let me say that St. Francis crossed my mind in
                              following
                              > Magdalene's love and the Astral body of the Buddha. Naturally this
                              might
                              > take some of the hot air out of the baloon, but on the other hand,
                              in terms
                              > of Novel and fiction, one can see such a powerful resonation
                              between the
                              > pupil who we know adored Buddha and sought his etheric body out in
                              a mystery
                              > center by the black sea, and we know St. Francis only incarnated
                              one other
                              > time as a small baby and didn't stay on earth long.. and now works
                              with
                              > Buddha on Mars. How great is Love? How great is devotion? Also what
                              a
                              > kindling of each other to attain deeper riches. What a change in
                              perspective
                              > of how Love remains deeper, burning brighter.. but still Love.
                              >
                              > But these thoughts are places of higher intuition, not any place
                              that the
                              > fallen Intellectual Soul has interest in. In fact, the consequences
                              of
                              > Spiritual Science on thinking, history and the potential of seeing
                              things in
                              > a new light, is still transforming the world. It still urks souls
                              very
                              > deeply that they cannot even get on board what deep meaning Kundry
                              or
                              > Magdalene might reveal in the ability of the Male animus in the
                              female body
                              > to rise in itself into higher Vetical levels of Initiation. Paving
                              the way
                              > to see how love grows deeper beyond the sexes into the realm where
                              > Initiation is the truest recognition of Love and Devotion, that
                              also kindles
                              > fruits of higher spriritual development in the vertical regions
                              above the
                              > Consciousness Soul. For at some point, rising higher means going
                              deeper.
                              >
                              > Thank You Elaine.
                              >
                              >
                              > Magdalene is
                              > >the transformed dark womb of Earth, and the darkness becomes
                              > >illuminated in Gold--Gold (whose brightness is also expressed in a
                              > >kind of white-gold, like the Sun, but it is not an abstract white--
                              > >masculine, but touched with the Dark of Earth, thus, the Gold that
                              is
                              > >deeper). But she is also the redeemer, bringing the
                              > >abstract "whiteness" down into the dark realm of the vaginal
                              > >mouth/cave and the womb, the warm heart/h of Earth.
                              > >
                              > >I don't know where the "dumb blond" belongs in world mythology.
                              But I
                              > >don't think she's Mary Magdalene. I was born a woman this time
                              round,
                              > >and there is a hearing that is in the dark womb--the womb has ears,
                              > >so to say....... Perhaps the dumb blond idea, which many of us,
                              > >including me, have absorbed to a degree, is an invention of a mind
                              > >that is afraid of, or a stranger to, the dark power of the womb.
                              > >
                              > : the colors are gold, gold-white,
                              > >red, and there is the dark background, with touches of green
                              (Earth?)
                              > >Red--a kind of blood. I see this now as actually not so much
                              darkness
                              > >transformed, but as "white" transformed, tinged with gold, deepened
                              > >in its contact with Earth
                              >
                              > _________________________________________________________________
                              > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
                              > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
                            • danifyou@tv.videotron.ca
                              Dear Elaine, Let me complementary go here. We ve been speaking of the Buddha lately, and the What ails thee? is really of the Perception in Active COMPASSION
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 9, 2002
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                                Dear Elaine,

                                Let me complementary go here.
                                We've been speaking of the Buddha lately, and the "What ails thee?" is really of the Perception in Active COMPASSION Truly.
                                The Social that See, that knows the Soul.
                                And so I come to you my Friend, seeing you Burdened and I ask, knowing you are carrying a Suffering, "What ails thee?".
                                We come here to be in touch with what you said yourself so often: "to have deep concern", to Care. And in the Care lies the Healing, in the Care is the Recognition of Wounds, the PERCEPTION of the OBJECTIVE LIVING BEING (and it's condition) standing beside us.
                                And here is also what has been the Wonder of Mary Magdalene. A God-Man came, Christ-Jesus, and this one Knew!
                                Knew her Heart her Soul and Worries!
                                Knew the REALITY OBJECTIVE
                                of her!
                                Another Being to Communy with, to Bear, to Share the LIFE.
                                And in Freedom come as a Stranger, GOOD, and LOVE so Limitless-Beautifully; Leap of Joy Mary Magdalene!

                                But oh the Sorrows of Mary Magdalene when her New Found Spiritual Lover Divine was Bruised, Abused, put on a Cross and Died, the Best Man ever encountered on the Planet, a God-Full-Man!
                                Archetypal-Ideal!
                                The Cross could not be the end,
                                'cause Lord over Everything, Perfect, He Transcends, even over the Greatest Ennemy,
                                over Death, the Feat Celestial Turning Point
                                Highest Mystery-Possibility, over Death the Victory!

                                Halleluiah... ;)

                                Danny

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: elaineupton2001<elaineupton@...>
                                Thanks, danny. You write (in reply to my question on the relationship
                                of Mary M and Amfortas, wounded fisher king):

                                > In the "What ails thee?", if one wants to speak from the Heart
                                truly....
                                > What aches thee:
                                > King Kong over Psyche.
                                >
                                > The Eternal Feminine leads us here into Wound, into Cry over the
                                Soiling of Beauty,
                                > Mode-earn Ring of Power UnRomantic society...


                                Yes, this is helpful Parsifal is the one who needs to ask the
                                question "what ails thee", but is it, then, the Eternal Feminine, the
                                Heart/h, the Mary Magdalene in Parsifal?

                                Blessings,
                                elaine






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                              • Bradford Riley
                                From: Sören Groth ... Please note attached picture does not imply future metamorphosis, however in something of to grow out of one
                                Message 15 of 16 , Dec 15, 2002
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                                  From: S�ren Groth <sgroth@...>
                                  >Subject: [anthroposophy] Poem by Gustav Sandgren (Re: Mary M and Anfortas)
                                  >Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 19:16:48 -0000

                                  Please note attached picture does not imply future metamorphosis, however in
                                  something of to grow out of one Sentient fleshy skin into a higher sphere
                                  along with the transformation of the endocrine system, allows the
                                  imagination merely to look at wonders - odd as they may be.


                                  >Deep in your bosom
                                  >hidden door to light
                                  >Deep in your blood
                                  >song of a becoming God
                                  >Some day - a shell of flesh
                                  >as catterpillar transformed
                                  >and winged you will embark
                                  >unto the realm of certainty
                                  >
                                  >Recognize your dark night
                                  >Acknowledge the mould that will create
                                  >Behold your dream
                                  >that awaits in the depths of your loins
                                  >Carry it to light
                                  >Carry it in raptorous hands
                                  >Wreathe your lust
                                  >THAT is the blood of the flowers
                                  >
                                  >Gustav Sandgren 1945
                                  >
                                  > (translation S�ren & Ashley)
                                  >


                                  _________________________________________________________________
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                                • bronwynquinn <ashley.case@verizon.net>
                                  Mmmm .. thanks for such a perfect image, Bradford! It adds a lot :-). ... Anfortas) ... however in ... sphere
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Dec 15, 2002
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                                    Mmmm .. thanks for such a perfect image, Bradford! It adds a lot :-).

                                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Bradford Riley"
                                    <holderlin66@h...> wrote:
                                    > From: Sören Groth <sgroth@b...>
                                    > >Subject: [anthroposophy] Poem by Gustav Sandgren (Re: Mary M and
                                    Anfortas)
                                    > >Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 19:16:48 -0000
                                    >
                                    > Please note attached picture does not imply future metamorphosis,
                                    however in
                                    > something of to grow out of one Sentient fleshy skin into a higher
                                    sphere
                                    > along with the transformation of the endocrine system, allows the
                                    > imagination merely to look at wonders - odd as they may be.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > >Deep in your bosom
                                    > >hidden door to light
                                    > >Deep in your blood
                                    > >song of a becoming God
                                    > >Some day - a shell of flesh
                                    > >as catterpillar transformed
                                    > >and winged you will embark
                                    > >unto the realm of certainty
                                    > >
                                    > >Recognize your dark night
                                    > >Acknowledge the mould that will create
                                    > >Behold your dream
                                    > >that awaits in the depths of your loins
                                    > >Carry it to light
                                    > >Carry it in raptorous hands
                                    > >Wreathe your lust
                                    > >THAT is the blood of the flowers
                                    > >
                                    > >Gustav Sandgren 1945
                                    > >
                                    > > (translation Sören & Ashley)
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > _________________________________________________________________
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