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Re: Abstractions (was:Why in the West we have no right to call Islam "evil")

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  • Sören Groth
    ... Now you twist around a bit StarMan ... as the whole theory is build upon a lot of occult connections and events it can hardly be described as marxist
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 4, 2002
      --- In anthroposophy@y..., DRStarman2001@a... wrote:

      Now you twist around a bit StarMan ... as the whole theory is build
      upon a lot of occult connections and events it can hardly be described
      as "marxist materialism" ... marxists hate all these explanations...
      I see them more as a "mist" ... and as it is with most things "there
      is no smoke withouth a fire" ...
      My impression is that there's a lot of guilt-by-association images in
      it, and "images" of things really happening, on a collective
      subconscious level ...
      I'm still working on that one... as there is some kind of truth behind
      it, but not in the consciouss manner it is described in "conspiracy
      theories" ...



      > exact opposite of what you say: civilized Westerners re-learned
      barbarism
      > and disrespect for human life when they went into Africa and Arabia
      and Asia,

      hmmm, actually the first contacts was on quite equal levels... the
      King of Portugal established diplomatic relations with the king of
      Luanda, and they made a trade agrement...
      Actually the possesion of gunpowder played it's own little role here,
      the chinese invented it, but we came up with the idea to use it for
      war... this gave a position of dominance.. which simply make nor the
      europeans nor the africans worse or better, simply that we had more
      "power" ... to discuss these things with sympathy-antipathy is
      meaningless, I think it is very, very sad, that you as a spiritual
      scientist can't look into things like this without getting into this
      emotional relationship to historical events...
      Many of these events have created "frosen images" ... and without the
      ability to look into them without prejudices they will keep on being a
      hindrance....
      Historical events have happened and we can't go back and change them,
      if it was one side doing right or wrong or another is a totally
      meaningless approach.. as we use to say "all is equally big assholes
      in the end" :-)

      > *******You can banish the clash of civilizations with a magic wand
      >all you

      I'm absolutely for "cultural imperialism" when it concerns human
      rights - but also with a bit more respect... That the spread of
      individualism, is based more on "ethical individualism"

      Let me give you an example, you once claimed that the tribal people
      had no wealth.. but actually some have "cultural values" - which in
      their culture has no economic value.. however a scientist travels to
      the jungle, meet a medicine man, who shares his knowledge about the
      medicine plants... the scientist goes back, contacts a medicinal
      company and they take out patent rights on the use of this plant...
      ethical individualism would be to share the economic value in thsi
      with the medicine man and the people who have shared this cultural
      achievement.... but here we have a "western arrogance" that has to be
      dealt with... In first hand this is a ethical moral question, and the
      knowledge about this may spill over to the rights sphere
      Now assume the tribal people know there's economic value in patenting
      their knowledge... the big catch just being that in the rights sphere
      of today the fee for doing so is several thousand dollars...
      The reality peasants around the world instead face is suddenly to be
      claimes on paying licensemoney to companies that has patented the
      seeds they have been using for several thousand years ....

      Well but this of course just is whining liberalist marxist materialist
      rumours and lies and God knows what.. and from others here I've
      learned the profound spiritual fact, that it is just Karma and
      reincarnation that has decided that a tribal medicine man and his
      people share their knowledge, but don't get any share in the economic
      value of it... which they could use for building schools, develop an
      economy, be participants in the marketeconomy...

      At least it's good to know that most anthro's have enough ethics to
      behave differently... like the swede's who have a cooperation with a
      village in the Dominican Republic.. the coffee from there, biodynamic
      grown by a farmers cooperative, can be bought in all Sweden, and a big
      part of the earnings are reinvested in the community there, a waldorf
      school, a cultural center aso aso...
      That's how wwe want to globalise in socialist Sweden, companero...

      Sören
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