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"sense of touch"?

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  • elaine upton
    Dear Danny, John, all of the thread that was_________? (smile) Danny, you reply to John s question about the wooden quality of people, Ahrimanic quality. You
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 29, 2000
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      Dear Danny, John, all of the thread that was_________?

      (smile)

      Danny, you reply to John's question about the "wooden" quality of people,
      Ahrimanic quality. You go on to say that psychotherapists and the like
      realize that there is a big problem today with "the sense of touch", but
      that this realization is "only the tip of the iceberg". Would you care to
      elaborate on this? I would appreciate that.

      Mitaquye Oyasin (For All My Relations),
      elaine
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    • Danny F.
      ... The thread was and is our materialistic and self-complacent society... (smile) ... The marerial world in itself is the tip of an iceberg, so everything
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 29, 2000
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        --- elaine upton <elaineupton@...> wrote:
        > From: "elaine upton" <elaineupton@...>
        >
        > Dear Danny, John, all of the thread that was_________?
        >
        > (smile)

        The thread was and is our materialistic and self-complacent society...
        (smile)



        > Danny, you reply to John's question about the "wooden" quality of
        > people,
        > Ahrimanic quality. You go on to say that psychotherapists and the
        > like
        > realize that there is a big problem today with "the sense of touch",
        > but
        > that this realization is "only the tip of the iceberg". Would you
        > care to
        > elaborate on this? I would appreciate that.


        The marerial world in itself is the tip of an iceberg, so everything
        that come to be manifested through or in the matter has an history,
        and the history of one own's being or the whole of a civilisation lie
        in events that prepare the way to what will be enacted in the
        physical. Here the problem with the sense of touch arise from the
        fact that people think they are their body, the same thing also arise
        with the belongings(goods) almost, the question of territoriality
        is arising in the human kingdom as in the animal one, the tendency
        in the social sphere is to bite, materialism doesn't give any latitude
        and freedom from matter and the body, this is like putting all your
        eggs in the same basket, so people feel that if they are touched
        physically, and also soulfully, that their little eggs will break,
        this is a fear, a fragility, lack of maturity disguised in roughness
        thinking roughness is a strenght.

        This war of all against all is really of the nature of people not
        being able to bear one another, and it is perceptible if you want in
        the form of the imagination of a nuclear chain reaction, this is a
        tension, a supersensible thing that we get closer and closer if we
        don't make the Christ entering our lives...

        To answer your question shortly, touch has become something either
        sexual, or a threat...

        Danny

        =====
        'There's a fine line between participation and mockery'.
        --Scott Adams

        'My advice to you is to get married. If you find a good wife, you'll be happy; if not, you'll become a philosopher'.

        'True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing'.
        --Socrates
        __________________________________________________
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      • Danny F.
        ... The thread was and is our materialistic and self-complacent society... (smile) ... The marerial world in itself is the tip of an iceberg, so everything
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 29, 2000
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          --- elaine upton <elaineupton@...> wrote:
          > From: "elaine upton" <elaineupton@...>
          >
          > Dear Danny, John, all of the thread that was_________?
          >
          > (smile)

          The thread was and is our materialistic and self-complacent society...
          (smile)



          > Danny, you reply to John's question about the "wooden" quality of
          > people,
          > Ahrimanic quality. You go on to say that psychotherapists and the
          > like
          > realize that there is a big problem today with "the sense of touch",
          > but
          > that this realization is "only the tip of the iceberg". Would you
          > care to
          > elaborate on this? I would appreciate that.


          The marerial world in itself is the tip of an iceberg, so everything
          that come to be manifested through or in the matter has an history,
          and the history of one own's being or the whole of a civilisation lie
          in events that prepare the way to what will be enacted in the
          physical. Here the problem with the sense of touch arise from the
          fact that people think they are their body, the same thing also arise
          with the belongings(goods) almost, the question of territoriality
          is arising in the human kingdom as in the animal one, the tendency
          in the social sphere is to bite, materialism doesn't give any latitude
          and freedom from matter and the body, this is like putting all your
          eggs in the same basket, so people feel that if they are touched
          physically, and also soulfully, that their little eggs will break,
          this is a fear, a fragility, lack of maturity disguised in roughness
          thinking roughness is a strenght.

          This war of all against all is really of the nature of people not
          being able to bear one another, and it is perceptible if you want in
          the form of the imagination of a nuclear chain reaction, this is a
          tension, a supersensible thing that we get closer and closer if we
          don't make the Christ entering our lives...

          To answer your question shortly, touch has become something either
          sexual, or a threat...

          Danny

          =====
          'There's a fine line between participation and mockery'.
          --Scott Adams

          'My advice to you is to get married. If you find a good wife, you'll be happy; if not, you'll become a philosopher'.

          'True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing'.
          --Socrates
          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
          http://im.yahoo.com
        • elaine upton
          Thanks, Danny, for your reply, and hello all. I do relate to what you say about everything having a history, and our sense of touch today evolving out of the
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 1, 2000
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            Thanks, Danny, for your reply, and hello all.

            I do relate to what you say about everything having a history, and our sense
            of touch today evolving out of the whole materialistic course of evolution
            that leads us to think we are our bodies. Your post ends with:

            > To answer your question shortly, touch has become something either
            > sexual, or a threat...

            Well, this is sadly true. Every other movie climaxes (no pun
            intended?--well, maybe...smile) climaxes in the protagonists' falling into
            bed (or the flowery meadows) or in an act of shooting or other form of
            killing that is shocking. Many movie viewers live with a lot of shock. We
            (many of us, at least) live with shock more than with real touch. Who even
            knows the difference between shock and touch, between fear and awe, between
            narrow self interest and interest in all relations, all beings (Somewhere
            Steiner, i believe, defines love as *deep interest in*, another word for
            compassion--smile).

            Our western world is materially prosperous, and spiritually bankrupt.
            Yet, the opposite is also true (there are paradoxes!). The more some fall
            into spiritual bankruptcy, the more others enter a spiritual revival!
            Anthroposophists have work to do in this domain of the revival!

            Praises, gratitude for our opportunities and deep blessings,
            elaine

            ______________________________________________________
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          • Joel A. Wendt
            Dear Elaine and Danny, Many years ago (1971-1974), I participated in a form of group therapy where touch was a central aspect. Called Reparenting, its basic
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 3, 2000
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              Dear Elaine and Danny,

              Many years ago (1971-1974), I participated in a
              form of group therapy where "touch" was a central
              aspect. Called Reparenting, its basic idea was that
              neurosis arose in the family, through confusion about
              how to "feel". So what we did was form groups, each
              with two leaders (one male and one female), a "father"
              and a "mother", and help them get in touch (interesting
              word usage here) with their childhood feelings and how
              those related to their adult problems. When we
              uncovered a "knot", the participants would create some
              kind of dynamic
              "re-education" of the feeling life, with new parental
              messages, and so forth.

              Touch was central to this whole process, with
              people being held and touched, and in physical contact
              with each other almost constantly during the course of
              a group. Obviously the confusion over "sex" and touch
              was an important problem.

              To go deeper would require a book. Let me say two
              additional things.

              When people demonstrated a need for working on
              their sexuality and their nurturing, as regards
              "touching" each other, we would hold a day long
              seminar. It would begin with people washing each others
              feet, and then massaging the feet with oil. What we
              had people do, when applying the oil, was to do one
              foot with one intention, and then the other foot with
              another. One intention would be sexual, that is to
              stimulate arousal (not only in the other person, but
              also in themselves), and the other intention would be
              to nurture and to heal. The person receiving the
              massage would then report what their experience was.
              Invariable the person being massaged knew from their
              own "feelings" when touch was nurturing and when it was
              sexual. Needless to say, this was a very
              "radical" style of therapy.

              Late in my time with this work I gave a lecture in
              Chicago, at a meeting of the International Association
              of Transactional Analysis, on the role of love in
              therapy. Basically I suggested that actually caring
              about people was the most powerful tool a therapist
              could use, because that is actually what people needed
              and wanted and had to have in order to feel safe enough
              to address the confusions in their emotional life. The
              response was very clear. People could understand this
              in an intellectual way, but actually acting upon it was
              impossible. Thus, Reparenting died a natural death as
              the '70's rolled on, largely because it was too far
              into the future.

              warm regards,
              joel

              elaine upton wrote:

              > From: "elaine upton" <elaineupton@...>
              >
              > Thanks, Danny, for your reply, and hello all.
              >
              > I do relate to what you say about everything having a history, and our sense
              > of touch today evolving out of the whole materialistic course of evolution
              > that leads us to think we are our bodies. Your post ends with:
              >
              > > To answer your question shortly, touch has become something either
              > > sexual, or a threat...
              >
              > Well, this is sadly true. Every other movie climaxes (no pun
              > intended?--well, maybe...smile) climaxes in the protagonists' falling into
              > bed (or the flowery meadows) or in an act of shooting or other form of
              > killing that is shocking. Many movie viewers live with a lot of shock. We
              > (many of us, at least) live with shock more than with real touch. Who even
              > knows the difference between shock and touch, between fear and awe, between
              > narrow self interest and interest in all relations, all beings (Somewhere
              > Steiner, i believe, defines love as *deep interest in*, another word for
              > compassion--smile).
              >
              > Our western world is materially prosperous, and spiritually bankrupt.
              > Yet, the opposite is also true (there are paradoxes!). The more some fall
              > into spiritual bankruptcy, the more others enter a spiritual revival!
              > Anthroposophists have work to do in this domain of the revival!
              >
              > Praises, gratitude for our opportunities and deep blessings,
              > elaine
              >
              > ______________________________________________________
              > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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