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Re: [anthroposophy] Re: Steiner in GA 171

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  • SRC
    ... And thank you for your replies and good will. Critical (not negative, just closely examined) review of Steiner s work is something conspicuous by its
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 4, 2002
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      Dear Ken:

      --- jackstrange11 <jackfreed@...> wrote:
      > Stephen
      > Thank-you for answering my questions and your good will. I am new to
      > this topic and am looking forward to the continuation of your essay.

      And thank you for your replies and good will. Critical (not negative,
      just closely examined) review of Steiner's work is something conspicuous
      by its absence in AP circles, IMO. And look in the bibliographies of
      books by AP (my abbreviation for anthroposophical) authors: almost without
      exception, all the references are to other AP writers, most of whom parrot
      Steiner. Sure looks like a cult to an impartial outsider....

      > -I think that Steiner may seem unsympathetic to mesoamerican culture
      > because these lectures center on an Ahrimanic disturbance that was
      > left over from Atlantis. A disturbance that is still in effect and
      > which can have a negative influence on human evolution. A more
      > sympathetic and comprehensive view of mesoamerica was not the task at
      > hand.

      Yes, I think that explains it. Still, his limited remarks can give a
      false impression to the unthinking reader. Our problem, not his.

      > _Also, RS continually harped on the evil undercurrents that are
      > indigenous to all civilizations, especially Europe. Much of
      > anthroposophy concerns the illness of European culture-- utterly
      > decadent churches and cultures of dead materialistic superstition.
      > Recognition of evil in all of its forms and manifestations is
      > necessary for spiritual growth. His content was richer when
      > discussing Europe because that was his and his immediate followers'
      > enviroment.

      I agree with this, also. Still, a deep rut has been dug that obstructs
      access to positive aspects of American spiritual life for one who wants to
      go further with Steiner's method...just see what has - or hasn't been
      written about America in AP circles over the last 75 years.

      Sorry my replies are so short, I had a lightening strike on my building
      last evening, and things are still not up to speed...

      Stephen


      =====
      Just cooperate and everything will be OK: The Authorities

      Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big
      ones are kept secret by public incredulity. Marshall McLuhan

      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.

      __________________________________________________
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    • SRC
      ... I ve been mulling over our exchanges and it seems that there are a couple (at least!) of levels of conversation going on. One is the nuts and bolts of
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 5, 2002
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        Dear Kenneth and Bill:

        --- jackstrange11 <jackfreed@...> wrote:
        > Stephen
        > Thank-you for answering my questions....
        >
        > -I think that Steiner may seem....

        I've been mulling over our exchanges and it seems that there are a couple
        (at least!) of levels of conversation going on. One is the nuts and bolts
        of what Steiner did or did not say in GA 171; what he meant by what was
        transcribed of his lectures, etc., etc., etc. We may have talked that one
        out for the time being, since there's not all that much to work with
        anyway, certainly not enough to draw firm and obvious conclusions. Still,
        familiarity with the material is essential if one wants to maintain any
        kind of viable opinion....

        The other level is how de _we_ talk abaout Steiner. I mean, it is
        different if, on the one hand, we talk about him and what he said to other
        anthroposophists of good will, or even to credulous and naive
        anthroposophists who may tend to an attitude of belief, and, on the other
        hand, to reasonable and intelligent people of no particular persuasion who
        may not have even heard of Dr. Steiner.
        In the first instance, saying that Steiner knew what he knew because he
        was clairvoyant frequently answers all questions and silences all
        objections. While this may not be fair, either to Steiner or to the
        questioner, the possibility of its employment may frequently contribute to
        the rather sterile tone of many an anthroposophical discussion. Not here,
        thank god.

        With those who do not already <believe> in Steiner, this kind of attitude
        or rejoinder not only doesn't work, it will cause the one who uses it to
        immediately loose all credibility. And rightly so, because Steiner
        himself insisted over and over again that regardless of the privileged
        nature of the <sources> of his communications, their substance should
        stand on their own two feet and find their confimation in the
        rough-and-tumble world of normal discourse, evidence, and common sense.
        What I have tried to do in this (first part, only!) of my essay is to deal
        with Steiner's statements as if they were made by anyone else, and to try
        and understand their possible meanings and implications not only in
        relation to other statements of Steiner's, but also in relation to the
        general fund of information that human enterprise has generated about
        their ssubject matter.
        Other people have done this in other areas, but, to my knowledge, no one
        has tried to attempt this with what significant and mind-blowing remarks
        Steiner has made about Mesoamerica. I hope this is not true, and that my
        submissions here might stimulate someone to tell me who has previously
        tried to plow this furrow. In the meantime, since <Assumption Is The
        Mother Of All F*ckup> I have tried to be as rigourous as possible in
        examing Steiner's statements themselves before going on to draw
        conclusions from them. For those that simply take what Steiner says at
        face value, case closed, that may seem unecessary and even anti-Steiner,
        but if Rudolf Steiner's work is to enter the mainstream of modern
        cultivated discourse and escape the cultic ghetto into which his followers
        have unwittingly consigned him, his authority must proceed from, not
        preceed, his statements.

        So that's my attitude in dealing with his GA 171 material like I do.

        Best Regards,

        Stephen

        =====
        Just cooperate and everything will be OK: The Authorities

        Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big
        ones are kept secret by public incredulity. Marshall McLuhan

        In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
        http://finance.yahoo.com
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