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=?UNKNOWN?B?UulwLiA6?= =?UNKNOWN?B?UulwLiA6?= [anthroposophy] Well said

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  • danifyou@tv.videotron.ca
    ... De : danifyou@tv.videotron.ca ... De : . Hello Danny, Bruce, and all (including John, who, if i remember, first asked about Say
    Message 1 of 2 , Sep 1, 2002
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      ----Message original -----
      De : danifyou@...


      ----Message original -----
      De : "."<skydancer@...>
      Hello Danny, Bruce, and all (including John, who, if i remember, first asked
      about Say Baba),

      Thank you all for quoting and websites (although i can't get through to the
      site to which you referred us, Bruce...), but I have looked at another.

      Danny, you offer comments on these "God Men of India." There are some
      comments you make about these "God men", and i wonder what it is you would
      accomplish by such comments.
      ---

      Hi Elaine,

      Sorry for this message having been left unanswered, I've been away from my Hoobit place for a week, had a little trip to do to the SouthWest, in the one-sided dry Fire of the Sun Valley in Phoenix Arizona.

      Accomplish? Hmm, you've digged these from some past, but as in now, my comments are based on personal experience. Comments based on touching the spirit, the essence
      of events. So, I think not being amiss by saying that every comments is an offering. that which an Individual has processed through his being So the accomplishing to put in as it is simply, was to type
      into words percepts that I happen to gather on my way, for I happen to have been Karmically-Parsifally meeting and been part of two so-called Eastern path groups. First Ananda Marga, second Sri Chinmoy. I just happened to be chosen I'd say, tiz where I ended so to speak, helpful guys! But quite a bit into enrolling you into the whole things, take it absorb it be in the gang, be the best guru worshipper around even. Follow the program everything is already ready for you, all the answers are there, the good "devotees" is the one who incarnates the best
      the guru's teachings, this latter basically acting as the 'I', the group is more or less a "group ego" based on the guru, here's the main backwardness introduced to you.

      *
      Also, i ask you how you see these things to
      which you refer working in the reality of your own life.
      --

      The 2 gurus I've been referring to do greatly sin against the Cosmos I would say, for they basically isolate people in their own little
      "bubble" of "system" which is no Communion of Man, that is THINKING that each to the Living Spirit, that which can only Individually basd, I say they turn people into "sweet spiritual animals" no condescendence intended to their devotees, anybody can make up back and awake to their Self worth and Magically trigger over everything be alive Threefold way quickening the Wolrd, Spirit Elation of the Life made Man Spirit relating to *THAT WHICH IS*, Living Wording around
      MicroCosmically processing the Macrocosmos and interacting with Fellow Human Beings in the World REAL and OBJECTIVE in which we all bath as we also bath in Maya out of sheer LAZINESS as well...

      Of the "God men" of Indian, you write:

      >
      > With them we can never understand, the mind is something
      > weak, and you MAY only understand when you get a so-called
      > God realisation or liberation sometimes several incarnations later,
      > they say.(that's the spirit of their speeches really)
      > Things come through some kind of mystical twilight,
      > 'Bliss' they say(smile), and they also have their own kind
      > of Darwinism in the belief that we have been animals,
      > or plants, and that we might have such future incarnations
      > litteraly.
      >

      "Them"? "They"? (They and we? *They*, who are foolish, having "*so-called*
      God realisation" and *we*, who know? --Hmmm.)
      ---

      If you look by yourself at the language used
      in the Mainstreaming so-called Eastern Path, you'll find that "God realisation" and all the "blanket" words concepts as such are very much what fill and what the New Age movement and their source of inspiration the "Mystical" East of the Mysterious. Doen't lead us far really, I think we could sum them by
      'Be Good'. So yes, let us be Good, but what else? you can be Good at any time you decide to be so, no need for any "mind Opium" of the ritualistic processes isn' it?
      Dr Starman put it quite outstandingly not long ago coining "blissed out" as the nming of the impulse working in such groups, for there is a trend here, as much as there is a trend in the different Christian denominations, different but so alike in the stright-jacket over the mind, or the "Veil which has covered their intelligence, for only in Christ the Veil is removed".

      > They have occult powers and they are very good to divert
      > the attention away from Christ, they might have sweet words
      > and do marvels, but to me they are more false prophets.

      Anthroposophists have a monopoly on Christ? Is that it?

      No, we only identify Him to it's true nature and recognize His Work instead of turning Him into a Jesus Man(Principle) Master alike to any other enlightened men that came to walk upon the surface of the Earth, soory bu an Elohim and a Man is not exactly same thing, if you know what I mean. The other way around is to depersonalize Him into whatever Cosmic Force of this or that, blanket concepts of the non-useful again.
      We ned Science of the Spirit for God sake, not the "sweety-sweety" of the be sweet and that's it, we need to talk, and the "sweety-sweety" is sweet Luciferic "floating",
      onw Lovingness indulging, not the Creative
      limitless Living Winged Spirit of the Working Men in 10th Hierarchy Active Useful Builders
      and Cosmos Transformers. I don't despise anybody, but don't come to me and tell me that what has arisen out of these movements
      is a Furthering of the Human Race...

      >
      > They might "make" people sweeter, but they also turn them
      > into infants...

      >Infants? Old men? What's the point here?
      >Are you an infant or an old man
      >or__________? Fill in the blank?
      ---

      I am basically talking about
      'Thinking Power', a Thinking that can say *THAT WHICH IS*, one that is MOBILE, that which include the Child, plus all the "Upgrades" that are available to you to unfold after, you know like the others things beside having a job a car a house and a wife and a family; biological and societal "program" add all the devices and the different colors and shapes that the market offers, materialistical Circus of a Labyrinthal Redundance of it all...


      >
      > They mostly play occult tricks and preach the obvious
      > moral common sense things, but no Sophia is really
      > offered, this is the dreamy luciferic temptation really.

      Sophia? Where's "she", Danny? Who is "she"? Do you know that being?

      I abund in the Sergei O. Prokofieff's view myself, a "Sobornal" Being of the Evolving Cosmos in which we live in, that is the Sophia having it's highest member as a Spirit of Wisdom, down to the Angel, we as the absorbers of the Death of matter Thrones outpouring that we "Wrap", "Reintegrate"
      Pleroma "Binding Agent" Act, yet transform further it all refashion...

      >
      > Not a coicidence they use the word sentient for the
      > sattvic things, this is what they offer: sentient soul.

      Well, at least "they" OFFER that. But what do you offer?

      Many things, yours to discover... ;)

      *
      Is it the duty of certain anthroposophists to go around calling other
      people--the "they"-- names like "infants", Luciferic, antiquated, etc.?
      ---

      They exist as much as 'I' exist, and as they both coexist...
      "Mainstream" remains a force or an impulse of a lesser value then the Individuals as Individuals composing it, the 'Matrix' is Powerfully batteried by the "Mainstream", that I would keep in mind...

      *
      Perhaps so. I wonder....

      What am I offering, one may ask? For now, two little things. I offer
      questions, those raised above. And I offer the possibility that each is on
      the Path to real-ize Godhood, each in his or her own way, whether that way
      be following teachings of Say Baba or whoever.
      --

      I agree, but those who *teach* have a burden that they will in time inherit-know, may be quite heavy for some I fear...
      There are different Missions, but the Mission of *HONESTY* has to be the One of us all...

      Let Love and Truth Reign!

      *
      What may speak to another may
      or may not speak to me. But that is not the point. The point is to show
      *deep interest* in all, for that, as Sarah quoted in a recent post
      responding to me, is Love (in Steiner's definition, one in which i find
      myself wholly in agreement).
      ---

      Agree-agree! ;)

      *
      Further, Steiner says (in numerous places, I'm sure) that the Love of Wisdom
      is the greatest Love. In Sophia, in my experience, Wisdom and Christ Love
      come together.--Each human being--whether Hindu or Buddhist or
      conventionally Christian (Catholic, Greek Orthodox,Protestant, Christian
      Community, other...)or Sufi or Islamic or Pagan or practictioner of Hopi
      Medicine Teachings or Yoruba Priestess or other-- is on the way to real-ize
      God --or call this Great Spirit, Allah, Unkulunku, SELF, or other name for
      that ultimate reality.

      I have met many such people of different paths along the WAY. When I meet
      them, my language is Christian, and through being a student of Steiner, my
      language/thought/feeling refines itself in a certain way. Their languages
      may be different. Even so, I find these others to be, like me, in search of
      the Divine, within-without-above-below. These others are my friends, even
      when we do not always see the same way. We are all striving towards Truth. I
      don't find anthroposophists nor the teachings of Steiner having any
      particular monopoly on Truth. I don't claim to know the ultimate, objective
      Truth. Yet, through Grace, I may glimpse it, and it dwells in the so called
      others as much as in myself or any anthroposophist, as far as i can see.

      I am not calling for a facile, sentimental universalism, where everything is
      watered down into a weak soup. Yet, I would say that even those who do
      that--make what looks like weak soup,that is, also help transform my seeing.
      All are teachers, and all provide this blessing, if we show *deep interest*
      in all. When show deep--i mean, deep-- interest, i come to know those
      others,and that soup is no longer weak. When i take *deep interest* in those
      others, then they are no longer merely "they", no longer antiquated,
      infants, and the like. They, like me, are souls on the Path, whatever part
      of the Path they walk.

      What I have found is that it is enough to speak as truly and as
      compassionately as i am able. Ideally (and I am not always at my ideal
      state, yet it is my goal), I don't need to criticize others or call them
      names. It is enough that I am searching for and pursuing the Love/Wisdom
      that calls in all things, if i open my eyes to see, my ears to hear (and
      Steiner's teachings help me a lot with this; yet others are helped with
      other teachings, and eventually all will come HOME. Actually, Steiner says
      as much.--See, for example The Apocalypse lectures....)

      Blessings,
      elaine


      That's what I had to "non-edit" say for now.
      Blessings to you ;)
      Danny
    • holderlin66
      ... that each to the Living Spirit, that which can only Individually basd, I say they turn people into sweet spiritual animals no condescendence intended to
      Message 2 of 2 , Sep 2, 2002
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        > "bubble" of "system" which is no Communion of Man, that is THINKING
        that each to the Living Spirit, that which can only Individually
        basd, I say they turn people into "sweet spiritual animals" no
        condescendence intended to their devotees, anybody can make up back
        and awake to their Self worth and Magically trigger over everything
        be alive Threefold way quickening the Wolrd, Spirit Elation of the
        Life made Man Spirit relating to *THAT WHICH IS*, Living Wording
        around
        > MicroCosmically processing the Macrocosmos and interacting with
        Fellow Human Beings in the World REAL and OBJECTIVE in which we all
        bath as we also bath in Maya out of sheer LAZINESS as well...
        >
        >
        > 'Be Good'. So yes, let us be Good, but what else? you can be Good
        at any time you decide to be so, no need for any "mind Opium" of the
        ritualistic processes isn' it?


        Elaine and Danny;

        Sweet spiritual animals!!!! That was good. I had a difficult time
        finding out who said what in the dialogue. I think Danny still has a
        funky computer situation. But Elaine and Danny, thanks for whatever
        that discussion was, it was the essential differences between how the
        New Agers water things down, yet, also serve as fodder for the good.
        But cancels out and targets those who by clear research and thinking
        truly discern a higher learning curve and makes those a target for
        mockery. At least that was a part of it.

        Now I am in Texas at a Sentient Soul, full fledged wash. It is the
        West Fest in Texas. It is the Czech Polka festival with a lot of beer
        and Texans. No New Agers here for damn sure. Talk about how to spread
        the balance of your spirit. They played a wild and crazy song about
        if we don't drink the beer, when we're dead our friends will be
        drinking all the beer. I attempted the Texas Polka and consider this:

        Along with the funnel cakes and saurkraut, I located a map of Czech
        with Austria on the border and Steiner having been on the border of
        that along with Bayrishe Wagnerian festivals. So I am thinking, what
        the hell am I doing here? Now the connection is curious when I
        consider Austria and the region of Steiner's stomping grounds and
        roots. I am here, Euro/Northerner occultist to visit my soon to be
        wife's, cousins, who will be attending our wedding next Year in Waco
        Texas.

        So the Czech's occupy Waco and West Texas. Every year they have a
        festival and this festival is a Sentient Soul dip in the pool. I
        thought very clearly that I had to write a book depicting clear
        experiences in chapters marked Sentient Soul stories - Intellectual
        Soul Stories - Consciousness Soul stories. I mean real down and dirty
        chapters of experiences so that we understand where we are on the map
        of the soul. I know what the map feels like and looks like, and we
        have a good 1/2 of 1% who even have a clue about that.

        Sentient Soul 101: Here in Texas they love the Longhorns or Dallas or
        Texas A.M. I attended the game with Louisiana and Texas A.M. I toured
        the campus and the rigors of the military, loyal fans, tradition and
        team spirit in particular the marching band for A.M. that attempts
        nearly perfect Pythagorean math forms on the football field. Now my
        mind tries to make some comparison to my days in Dornach, where I
        find I wish we had the loyalty that A.M. has for each other, but I
        attempt to compare my own experience of Pythagorean forms in Eurythmy
        and Waldorf Schools in their pure integrated math movements and the
        impressive though tainted Sentient Nationalism of the immense
        patriotism to one school mascot and one school, Texas A.M.

        The lead singer in the Talking Heads, did a kind of cadillac film
        road tour of Texas and I forget the title but it is so sur-real and
        guess what it is very, very sur-real when I cast my eye from the view
        of the Consciousness Soul into the traumas and petty life visions of
        ma, mas and dadees and cousins and high, high drama on stories about
        the time sissy got drunk and wrecked the pick-up. These are the true-
        grit substance of what gives each person their right to royally screw
        up anyway they like to. It is a badge of honor in the Sentient Soul.

        While in my tortured brain, I am thinking of Mars forces and Texas
        and Buddha on Mars and St.Francis and the Elohim Christ. I think to
        myself that "The Michael School" is really the highest educational
        system and I want T-shirts and bumper stickers to proudly declare
        that such a School exists and it is much more than family and
        barbecues. But all the Courage and the mixed mud of the Sentient is
        all warped together in undifferentiated MIXED METAL KING that Goethe
        described in his GREEN SNAKE AND BEAUTIFUL LILY.

        Well on the overview I had a good time, but all those Polkas, a great
        band and all that beer and sausage.. jeez! So when we compare the
        spread of Intelligence that runs from the Sentient, so called adults,
        and up and through the Consciousness Soul.. we find that in the
        Consciousness Soul I can certainly digest them.. but they certainly
        cannot digest the Michael School. So the inner spread, to cover the
        American Folk Spirit or the Sentient Soul of the Italians or however
        or where ever is a big spread. It requires a large spread of heart
        and soul.

        With mascots and school cheers the sentient soul easily gets caught
        in false tradition and ritual and forms nationalistic and accepted
        loyalties to regions and schools that lock in on the sentient and
        intellectual frameworks of the psychic development and place icons
        and the idols of Francis Bacon on the psychic headstones of those
        that are unaware of anything that is even a phase higher for
        humanity. Mascots and Team Icons create egregorial elemental
        attachments inside the sentient and intellectual soul arena and do
        not allow but 2% of any of these through to higher Consciousness Soul
        integration. It remains massively locked down, so consider yourself
        lucky to even approach the thinking of the Consiousness Soul.

        I am well aware of how insane it sounds to understand Buddha's
        experience on Mars... However as Michael School grad student I know
        this changes the entire future destiny of those that were soul warped
        by the VietNam War. I know that they shall be experiencing and
        seeking what the Indivudals of Buddha and St. Francis have antidoted
        to the Mars activity that was false on Earth. From their Mars after
        life experiences will come whole waves of new Gandhi's.. I know this.
        Yet it is only a portion, an after thought, of the current themes
        which still create in Texans a hunger to go to War and fight for
        America. A fine idea, if we weren't already wading into the
        Consciousness Soul up to our ankles. I love the Alamo and I also have
        inner questions about Los Alamos.

        The connection is that John Wayne - The grandaddy of Sentient America
        died and contracted bone cancer while shooting Genghis Khan on soil
        that was infected with nuclear blasts and called safe. Think about
        the theory and the reality of the Sentient Soul it completes the tale
        in John Wayne. Who dares even follow the trail of John Wayne to his
        conclusion and weigh in the answer that the gods gave. It wasn't
        John's fault. America loves to wallow in the falseness of the
        Sentient Soul and that is what we have as national Media and news of
        the day and that is why we have Sentient Soul Bush at the helm of the
        country. We cannot glimpse or capture the inner vision we will be
        forced to carry when martyrs from Mars return again to Earth. Well I
        don't have to tell this list the facts, but to be a prisoner of the
        Sentient Soul and figuring out how to talk and swim with them fishes,
        while I is actually a Consciousness Soul student.. Talk about Big
        Texas Spreads.. well this is a vast stretch.. Have a Shiners Czech
        Beer! Have A Steiner Brew what's it to you?

        Bradford
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