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Re: American soil-Re:American Anthroposophy

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  • Spindi111@aol.com
    Dear Elaine, I guess this is my opening as you asked if there are any women on this line. I m cindi and brand new to Waldorff as well as Anthroposophy. All I
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 8, 2000
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      Dear Elaine,

      I guess this is my opening as you asked if there are any women on this line.
      I'm cindi and brand new to Waldorff as well as Anthroposophy. All I know is
      tat I brought my daugher to a May day event and was mesmerized. For now I am
      taking it all in and appreciate the dialogue.

      Regards, cindi gray
    • John Massengale
      ... John Massengale http://www.massengale.com John Montague Massengale AIA Architects & Town Planners Commoditas o Firmitas o Venustas
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 8, 2000
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        > Neo-classicism is a style, but Classicism is what Thomas Jefferson or
        > Palladio or Vitruvius would call an expression of Nature. When you criticize
        > the Euclidean nature of Classical architecture and urbanism, you are
        > expressing your personal or cultural preference for other types of design,
        > although you explicity said in a different form that Euclidean design is bad
        > (when you said something about how we need to get away from grids and
        > straight lines).

        BTW, this is what I was referring to:

        > Our very architecture in Europe and North America, the design of our lives
        > --buildings, streets, etc. are so straight or rectangular and rational, and
        > very dull and deadening. Where i teach, we are told to make the teaching of
        > writing a rational, systematized thing. That has its place, of course, but
        > it is also limited, and by itself, it will leave the soul dead!

        John Massengale


        http://www.massengale.com

        John Montague Massengale AIA
        Architects & Town Planners

        Commoditas o Firmitas o Venustas
      • elaine upton
        Dear John, I will not go into the details of your post, because it would not be productive, as i think you have already said, to say you said this; i said
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 9, 2000
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          Dear John,

          I will not go into the details of your post, because it would not be
          productive, as i think you have already said, to say "you said this; i said
          that kind of thing". Rather, I would ask you to discontinue telling me what
          i mean, discontinue putting YOUR slant onto what i say. If you wish to
          accuse me of putting forth African things as superior, or of "coming close"
          to doing so, that is your problem. Don't make it mine.
          elaine


          >From: "John Massengale" <john@...>
          >Reply-To: anthroposophy@onelist.com
          >To: anthroposophy@onelist.com
          >Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] American soil-Re:American Anthroposophy
          >Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:23:13 -0500
          >
          >From: "John Massengale" <john@...>
          >
          > > This is not an issue of superiority, and never has been for me. So, no,
          >I am
          > > not even close to saying that. I wonder why it is that when someone
          >speaks
          > > enthusiastically about the gifts of some group, then that is judged to
          >be
          > > any thing other than what is expressed --namely, just that: enthusiasm
          >for
          > > the gifts of that group.
          >
          >Because you specifically contrasted the superiority of some African gifts
          >with some European qualities you liked less, and you would probably be mad
          >if I were as critical of African culture as you can be of European culture.
          >If I had that post on the computer, I would quote it. But I'm not
          >interested
          >in a "yes, you did, no I didn't" discussion because I fundamentally agree
          >with what you said. And as I also said, America is and should be a place of
          >different cultures and different perspectives. My point is that you and
          >Starman both have a tendency to present a particular viewpoint as the best
          >viewpoint.
          >
          >It's obvious why you talk about the Eurocentric world we live in. But 1)
          >it's natural for many Americans to be Eurocentric, and properly done, it is
          >no worse than IF (emphasize "if") you were to be Afrocentric; 2) America is
          >the most liberal society in the history of the world -- to give but one
          >small example, Martin Luther King's non-violent policies depended on a
          >receptive establishment, and if you look at the authors and supporters of
          >the Civil Rights Act, you will find that most of them were white males; 3)
          >Political Correctness, another creation of white European males, in
          >practice
          >usually says that the minority is superior to the majority, which must shut
          >up and take its medicine. This is the modern, neurotic side of Liberal
          >society, a la Walter Benjamin, trickle-down Marxism and Deconstruction. It
          >looks on mankind as inherently weak and bad, and the individual as even
          >worse. It likes to punish itself and make itself feel bad. It has very
          >little to do with the anthroposophical view of life and divinity.
          >
          > > Even the reference to and the term "classical music" has a Eurocentric
          >bias.
          > > Handel and Mozart and Bach and Beethoven and Mahler are
          >"classical"?-??--
          > > Yes, in Europe and with Eurocentric Americans they are "classical." But
          >to
          > > me "classical" American is just as important (not superior, but
          >certainly
          > > important, and since I live here, on this soil, of great importance).
          >Thus,
          > > classical American is blues, "negro spirituals", native american
          >drumming,
          > > native american flute, country western music, and the like. These are
          > > important, and not forms inferior to Mozart or Vivaldi.
          > >
          > > (Of course, nothing is purely "American" or purely "European". Country
          >music
          > > has great Irish influences, or Scots-Irish, and jazz and blues have
          >great
          > > African influences, and even Irish influences...Yet, still these forms
          > > emerge as distinctly American. Even the "native american" is related to
          > > certain Asian streams...)
          >
          >This is Modernism's misinterpretation of "Classical" -- it does not mean
          >"the best and the highest" but is actually the earthly expression of a
          >divine archetype. And, one should add, an archetype which is somehow
          >connected to Europe and America rather than Africa and Asia.
          >
          >Neo-classicism is a style, but Classicism is what Thomas Jefferson or
          >Palladio or Vitruvius would call an expression of Nature. When you
          >criticize
          >the Euclidean nature of Classical architecture and urbanism, you are
          >expressing your personal or cultural preference for other types of design,
          >although you explicity said in a different form that Euclidean design is
          >bad
          >(when you said something about how we need to get away from grids and
          >straight lines).
          >
          >Similarly, Feng Shui expresses divine archetypes connected to China, and it
          >tells us something about China versus Europe that quite a few Feng Shui
          >principles directly contradict Classical principles, even though both are
          >an
          >expression of Nature. We are all connected, but where we choose to
          >reincarnate affects how we experience life and the universe.
          >
          >Musically, Mozart is the highest earthly expression of Classicism that
          >mankind has produced. That does not mean that there has not been an Asian
          >or
          >African composer who has been his equal.
          >
          >John Massengale
          >

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