Re: 2 initiates?
- Lovely exchange, Danny and Joel. Thank you!
Aspiring, in Christ and Sophia,
>From: Danny Fortier <premabrahma@...>______________________________________________________
>Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] 2 initiates?
>Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:29:35 -0800 (PST)
>--- "Joel A. Wendt" <hermit@...> wrote:
> > From: "Joel A. Wendt" <hermit@...>
> > Dear Danny,
> > To my mind, having initiates is one of those "swords that cut
> > both
> > ways". You put it right on the issue when you wrote: " we need
> > people
> > speaking with authority..." Does this mean you don't want to think
> > for
> > yourself anymore? Would you like to be able to stomp on another's
> > point of
> > view by bringing out the words of an "authority"?
> > I suspect that is not what you really mean.
> That's right, by speaking with authority I rather meant the Word,
> make the Word ours, make anthroposophy ours. In this way there shall
> be no reason to deify Steiner nor than to deify the apostles or
> anybody. To not rely on authorities but rather being ourselves our
> own 'authority' by the very fact that our house is built on the rock
> of the spirit and not a Steiner's book or anything coming from this
> world. This aptitude to stand next to the 'Abyss' of nothingness, and
> find this strenght that arise from the begging of the spirit, the
> strenght that arise when we are weak as St-Paul says, or to use a
> part of one of your last post: 'Tomberg called it "learning to think
> your knees" and Steiner called it "sacrifice of thoughts'.
> Christ was speaking with authority and yet he says in essence: I'm
> not your master but your friend. By authority I did not mean of course
> anything of what your two questions above evoke, but rather the
> state of spiritual 'solidity'. I heard that Steiner did not want his
> lectures to be published has it happened, I know why and I'll tell
> you, this is that it makes people intellectually active and 'greedy',
> but rather spiritually lazy, and especially towards initiation; to
> prefer remaining blind and being satisfied of a description of how
> things are in the spiritual world through reading shortly.
> The common ground must be found in the Sophia and Christ, then shall
> there be a true brotherhood in the Society and not division after
> division, and pseudo-threats to be found against the Society.
> I find there's still the tendency to see initiation as something
> for the few, and being something kind of suprahuman for the very
> special ones, this is why arise the deification of the initiates; the
> Mystery of Golgotha is not understood yet..
> 'Ye are gods', if the initiate culture has to be cultivated, let me
> add the godly one as well, let's not find refuge in a false humility
> in saying 'we ordinary people', that's too comfortable and aim not
> towards a culture of excellence. Are we too weak to bear the presence
> of initiates and what they could have to say that we prefer to not
> have them intercourse in the social affairs of the Society? Let's
> see then how this Society shall react towards the incarnation of
> Ahriman, it might find itself in a great state of weakness...
> I think I would like to call the incarnation of Ahriman
> 'the Test of godliness'. It might be in the likeness of what was be
> found in the movie 'Ghostbuster', the creature to ask 'Are you a god?'
> having for reply 'no', and the creature to say 'So perish'..
> You're right Joel by looking in the american movie culture, for
> a lot to be found in there, especially for an anthroposophist. I
> personnaly found that there's almost always a moment at least that
> could be called the Christ line , the hero as a moral entity, most of
> the time the job of one man, a happy ending, hey! that's pretty
> christian after all no?
> We will gain much if we are able to identify the presence and
> manifestations of the Christ spirit as we might be able to do also
> for the Adversary.
> This is also not a coincidence if the Star Trek trio was how it was
> also: Spock thin and tall, intellect, memory, Vulcan, the most stoic,
> without feelings.
> Kirk average muscular build, will, action, leader, adventurous,
> the most american spirited I'd say.
> The Dr. , FEELINGS, that's not a coincidence that he was the
> ...the central problem, which
> > is
> > learning to get along with each other.
> HOW RIGHT YOU ARE.
> If you're a bit sensitive you are probably able to see and feel how
> most of people who are to be in a social situation have their astral
> body kind of trembling; this is the result of the Christlessness of
> our time, this Christlessness-> root of the rotten social sphere we
> have nowadays. This of course(trembling) apply to those still having a
> Recognizing the humanity in the other, looking to a person for what
> she or he is, there is a great accomplishment of the one who
> knows something..
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com