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Re: 2 initiates?

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  • elaine upton
    Lovely exchange, Danny and Joel. Thank you! Aspiring, in Christ and Sophia, elaine ... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private,
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 8, 2000
      Lovely exchange, Danny and Joel. Thank you!

      Aspiring, in Christ and Sophia,

      >From: Danny Fortier <premabrahma@...>
      >Reply-To: anthroposophy@onelist.com
      >To: anthroposophy@onelist.com
      >Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] 2 initiates?
      >Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:29:35 -0800 (PST)
      >--- "Joel A. Wendt" <hermit@...> wrote:
      > > From: "Joel A. Wendt" <hermit@...>
      > >
      > > Dear Danny,
      > >
      > > To my mind, having initiates is one of those "swords that cut
      > > both
      > > ways". You put it right on the issue when you wrote: " we need
      > > people
      > > speaking with authority..." Does this mean you don't want to think
      > > for
      > > yourself anymore? Would you like to be able to stomp on another's
      > > point of
      > > view by bringing out the words of an "authority"?
      > >
      > > I suspect that is not what you really mean.
      > That's right, by speaking with authority I rather meant the Word,
      > make the Word ours, make anthroposophy ours. In this way there shall
      > be no reason to deify Steiner nor than to deify the apostles or
      > anybody. To not rely on authorities but rather being ourselves our
      > own 'authority' by the very fact that our house is built on the rock
      > of the spirit and not a Steiner's book or anything coming from this
      > world. This aptitude to stand next to the 'Abyss' of nothingness, and
      > find this strenght that arise from the begging of the spirit, the
      > strenght that arise when we are weak as St-Paul says, or to use a
      > part of one of your last post: 'Tomberg called it "learning to think
      > your knees" and Steiner called it "sacrifice of thoughts'.
      > Christ was speaking with authority and yet he says in essence: I'm
      > not your master but your friend. By authority I did not mean of course
      > anything of what your two questions above evoke, but rather the
      > state of spiritual 'solidity'. I heard that Steiner did not want his
      > lectures to be published has it happened, I know why and I'll tell
      > you, this is that it makes people intellectually active and 'greedy',
      > but rather spiritually lazy, and especially towards initiation; to
      > prefer remaining blind and being satisfied of a description of how
      > things are in the spiritual world through reading shortly.
      > The common ground must be found in the Sophia and Christ, then shall
      > there be a true brotherhood in the Society and not division after
      > division, and pseudo-threats to be found against the Society.
      > I find there's still the tendency to see initiation as something
      > for the few, and being something kind of suprahuman for the very
      > special ones, this is why arise the deification of the initiates; the
      > Mystery of Golgotha is not understood yet..
      > 'Ye are gods', if the initiate culture has to be cultivated, let me
      > add the godly one as well, let's not find refuge in a false humility
      > in saying 'we ordinary people', that's too comfortable and aim not
      > towards a culture of excellence. Are we too weak to bear the presence
      > of initiates and what they could have to say that we prefer to not
      > have them intercourse in the social affairs of the Society? Let's
      > see then how this Society shall react towards the incarnation of
      > Ahriman, it might find itself in a great state of weakness...
      > I think I would like to call the incarnation of Ahriman
      > 'the Test of godliness'. It might be in the likeness of what was be
      > found in the movie 'Ghostbuster', the creature to ask 'Are you a god?'
      > having for reply 'no', and the creature to say 'So perish'..
      > You're right Joel by looking in the american movie culture, for
      > a lot to be found in there, especially for an anthroposophist. I
      > personnaly found that there's almost always a moment at least that
      > could be called the Christ line , the hero as a moral entity, most of
      > the time the job of one man, a happy ending, hey! that's pretty
      > christian after all no?
      > We will gain much if we are able to identify the presence and
      > manifestations of the Christ spirit as we might be able to do also
      > for the Adversary.
      > This is also not a coincidence if the Star Trek trio was how it was
      > also: Spock thin and tall, intellect, memory, Vulcan, the most stoic,
      > without feelings.
      > Kirk average muscular build, will, action, leader, adventurous,
      > the most american spirited I'd say.
      > The Dr. , FEELINGS, that's not a coincidence that he was the
      > Doctor...
      > ...the central problem, which
      > > is
      > > learning to get along with each other.
      > If you're a bit sensitive you are probably able to see and feel how
      > most of people who are to be in a social situation have their astral
      > body kind of trembling; this is the result of the Christlessness of
      > our time, this Christlessness-> root of the rotten social sphere we
      > have nowadays. This of course(trembling) apply to those still having a
      > soul...
      > Recognizing the humanity in the other, looking to a person for what
      > she or he is, there is a great accomplishment of the one who
      > knows something..
      > Danny
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