Cain&Abel-Re: Manas and the Astral Body of Christ
- --- In anthroposophy@y..., "elaineupton2001" <elaineupton@h...> wrote:
> Dear Jouko and Bradford and any of this thread,with
> Thanks for the wonderful contributions on Cain and Abel streams,
> Solomon--St. Germain on the one, Abel, side, and with Hiram AbifCain--
> through to Lazarus/John and Christian Rosenkreutz on the other -
> side. This is food for thought. Your further speculations on St.in
> Francis (??), Jouko, I will let rest for now; yet I do appreciate
> your willingness to come forward here.
> Somewhere Steiner talks about the "St. Francis" soul having had an
> earlier (medieval?) incarnation among Buddhists. I believe this is
> the lectures on Morality (can't remember the exact title of these2nd
> lectures on St. Francis).
> In any case, I find it important to redeem the stream of Christian
> Rosenkreutz from the unclarity (in my view) to which it appears at
> least to have fallen in various Rosicrucian organizations today.
> Steiner also somewhere (i forget the title under which his lectures
> or published) speaks of three streams--1)Rosicrucian, and is the
> Manicheean, and the 3rd? Can someone help me here???definitely
> The three also come together somehow, or is it two instead of three?
> Who of us identifies with one or other of these various streams?
> Of the Cain-Abel stream, I think both are important, but I
> identify more strongly with the Cain stream. Thinking, risk taking,to
> going beyond priestly authority, and also the idea of being
> the "farmer/gardener", where one uses thinking, risk taking to
> create, Co-create with God, rather than be a passive nomadic
> shepherd, although this way also has it's place, but I am drawn to
> the Cain --Rosenkreuz stream more than the other.
> Thanks for re-minding me!
> Please, anyone, if you can help with my questions above, I will
> appreciate it.
> ((I am less often on computer, but should return here by Thursday
> read and reply.))joksu writes:
> Your servant,
Hello Elaine and any of this thread!
The occultist to whom I referred in my original message about the
lecture "Cain" (Mr. Ervast) has also said, that St. Francis have been
a "typical disciple of Buddha" in some previous incarnation (no
timescale indicated). As I said, I just speculated (which can be
stupid in these affairs) about a possible "line" from saint to a
About the manichean stream (which has a lot to do with the question,
how we approach and deal with the "evil") there are some good points
in S. Prokoffjef's book concerning the spiritual significance of
forgiving. (From this author that book is my favourite.) I think that
in some sense the manichean stream is considered "higher" than the
rosicrucian one in this book. Perhaps this "manicheanism" could be
added as the third factor, when we compare these lines to
the "trinity in man": Mani - Cain - Abel??
Well, I think that I have more questions than answers. I have also
pondered about the "pairs": Cain - Abel
Hiram Abif - Solomon
St. John - John the Babtist
Rosenkreutz- St. Germain
and then: Steiner - ???. Is something still
Then there is the old legend, which says that Abel was the first son
by Adam and Eve. Cain was older and according to this legend his
father was a "spritual being" called Samael. This in some way
explains the differences between Cain and Abel. This name "Samael"
can point to some earlier periods in the "Earth-evolution", possibly
to Saturn-period. (This connection always reminds me of
the "Wälsungen" in the Ring-cycle; they are "Cain-types". And when we
think that farmer is working with soil (=mineral kingdom), then in
the Saturn period the mankind was in a stage, which can be compared
to mineral kingdom.)
Oops, it just occured to me that this text is probably not exactly
what could be called "redeeming the stream of Rosenkreutz from
unclarity"! But sometimes questions can be at least as valuable as
About identification and the various streams: I also have a close
affinity to the Rosenkreutz stream (even though I can hardly manage
to keep alive a cactus in my apartment!), but this third stream is
also very interesting. Perhaps it has something to do with the
balance between thinking and feeling (Cain and Abel). Then the
real "will-function" is possible and also winning the evil without
fighting against it.