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Re: TheFirst Class?

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  • elaineupton2001
    Dear Joel (and stephen cosgrove, if you are here), Thanks, Joel, for your reply on the First Class. And, as you suggest, I will contact Stephen Cosgrove. I
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 7, 2002
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      Dear Joel (and stephen cosgrove, if you are here),

      Thanks, Joel, for your reply on the First Class. And, as you suggest,
      I will contact Stephen Cosgrove. I don't know if he/you, stephen, are
      on this list, but I know you are on another with me.

      Well, the Tomberg controversy is everywhere, even in matters of First
      Class, or even mainly in such matters?...

      Blessed New Year!
      elaine


      >((...))
      > Dear Elaine,
      >
      > According to Robert Powell, one of the last things Tomberg
      did as an
      > anthroposophist (before Von Zyleman's asked him to leave the Dutch
      > society), was to finish the First Class lessons - the Michael School
      > (they were not finished), and give the Second Class lessons - the
      Sophia
      > School, and the Third Class lessons - the Christos School.
      >
      > What was done with this material by the small group that
      received it, I
      > have never heard. Maybe Stephen Cosgrove has more information, you
      > might try him.
      >
      > warm regards,
      > joel
    • Lil Ole Miss
      hmmm - this is strange. I have some of Rudolf Steiner s books published during his life time which are Printed for Members of the School of Spiritual Science,
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 7, 2002
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        hmmm - this is strange. I have some of Rudolf Steiner's books published
        during his life time which are "Printed for Members of the School of
        Spiritual Science, Goetheanum, First Class..." - uh - perhaps the publisher,
        Philosophical-Anthroposophical Publishing Co., Goetheanum, Dornach,
        Switzerland, or even Steiner left something out? er - odd, this, isn't it?
        hmmm......

        Sheila

        > Dear Joel (and stephen cosgrove, if you are here),
        >
        > Thanks, Joel, for your reply on the First Class. And, as you suggest,
        > I will contact Stephen Cosgrove. I don't know if he/you, stephen, are
        > on this list, but I know you are on another with me.
        >
        > Well, the Tomberg controversy is everywhere, even in matters of First
        > Class, or even mainly in such matters?...
        >
        > Blessed New Year!
        > elaine
        >
        >
        > >((...))
        > > Dear Elaine,
        > >
        > > According to Robert Powell, one of the last things Tomberg
        > did as an
        > > anthroposophist (before Von Zyleman's asked him to leave the Dutch
        > > society), was to finish the First Class lessons - the Michael School
        > > (they were not finished), and give the Second Class lessons - the
        > Sophia
        > > School, and the Third Class lessons - the Christos School.
        > >
        > > What was done with this material by the small group that
        > received it, I
        > > have never heard. Maybe Stephen Cosgrove has more information, you
        > > might try him.
        > >
        > > warm regards,
        > > joel
        >
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      • DRStarman2001@aol.com
        In a message dated 1/7/2002 6:19:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, lilolemiss@mindspring.com writes:
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 7, 2002
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          In a message dated 1/7/2002 6:19:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          lilolemiss@... writes:

          << hmmm - this is strange. I have some of Rudolf Steiner's books published
          during his life time which are "Printed for Members of the School of
          Spiritual Science, Goetheanum, First Class..." - uh - perhaps the publisher,
          Philosophical-Anthroposophical Publishing Co., Goetheanum, Dornach,
          Switzerland, or even Steiner left something out? er - odd, this, isn't it?
          hmmm......

          Sheila >>

          *******I don't understand---what do you think was left out?
        • Lil Ole Miss
          ... publisher, ... I haven t the faintest idea. I thought I read a reply from Elaine [?] in answer to Joel s statement that Robert Powell said Tomberg put
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 7, 2002
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            > In a message dated 1/7/2002 6:19:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            > lilolemiss@... writes:
            >
            > << hmmm - this is strange. I have some of Rudolf Steiner's books published
            > during his life time which are "Printed for Members of the School of
            > Spiritual Science, Goetheanum, First Class..." - uh - perhaps the
            publisher,
            > Philosophical-Anthroposophical Publishing Co., Goetheanum, Dornach,
            > Switzerland, or even Steiner left something out? er - odd, this, isn't it?
            > hmmm......
            >
            > Sheila >>
            >
            > *******I don't understand---what do you think was left out?
            >
            I haven't the faintest idea. I thought I read a reply from Elaine [?] in
            answer to Joel's statement that Robert Powell said Tomberg put together
            First Class, Second Class, and part of Third Class lessons before he was
            asked to leave the Anthroposophical Society or Dornach, whichever it was? I
            can find no such reference. I don't understand, either.
            Sheila
          • DRStarman2001@aol.com
            In a message dated 1/7/2002 7:11:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, lilolemiss@mindspring.com writes:
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 8, 2002
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              In a message dated 1/7/2002 7:11:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              lilolemiss@... writes:

              << > << hmmm - this is strange. I have some of Rudolf Steiner's books
              published
              > during his life time which are "Printed for Members of the School of
              > Spiritual Science, Goetheanum, First Class..." - uh - perhaps the
              publisher,
              > Philosophical-Anthroposophical Publishing Co., Goetheanum, Dornach,
              > Switzerland, or even Steiner left something out? er - odd, this, isn't it?
              > hmmm......
              >
              > Sheila >>
              >
              > *******I don't understand---what do you think was left out?
              >
              I haven't the faintest idea. I thought I read a reply from Elaine [?] in
              answer to Joel's statement that Robert Powell said Tomberg put together
              First Class, Second Class, and part of Third Class lessons before he was
              asked to leave the Anthroposophical Society or Dornach, whichever it was? I
              can find no such reference. I don't understand, either.
              Sheila
              >>
              *******Tomberg imagined he could create the Second and Third Class---but was
              such a failure at spiritual science that he went back to being a Catholic...
              and thought that was a big step forward! Rejopining the Church that put
              Steiner's books on the Index. I don't think anyone has anything to learn
              from a hanger-on to our movement like that.

              Starman
            • Lil Ole Miss
              ... it? ... I ... was ... Catholic... ... Dear DrStarman, Thank you for confirming my own thoughts. It s puzzling to me how some people base their ideas on
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 9, 2002
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                > In a message dated 1/7/2002 7:11:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                > lilolemiss@... writes:
                >
                > << > << hmmm - this is strange. I have some of Rudolf Steiner's books
                > published
                > > during his life time which are "Printed for Members of the School of
                > > Spiritual Science, Goetheanum, First Class..." - uh - perhaps the
                > publisher,
                > > Philosophical-Anthroposophical Publishing Co., Goetheanum, Dornach,
                > > Switzerland, or even Steiner left something out? er - odd, this, isn't
                it?
                > > hmmm......
                > >
                > > Sheila >>
                > >
                > > *******I don't understand---what do you think was left out?
                > >
                > I haven't the faintest idea. I thought I read a reply from Elaine [?] in
                > answer to Joel's statement that Robert Powell said Tomberg put together
                > First Class, Second Class, and part of Third Class lessons before he was
                > asked to leave the Anthroposophical Society or Dornach, whichever it was?
                I
                > can find no such reference. I don't understand, either.
                > Sheila
                > >>
                > *******Tomberg imagined he could create the Second and Third Class---but
                was
                > such a failure at spiritual science that he went back to being a
                Catholic...
                > and thought that was a big step forward! Rejopining the Church that put
                > Steiner's books on the Index. I don't think anyone has anything to learn
                > from a hanger-on to our movement like that.
                >
                > Starman

                Dear DrStarman,
                Thank you for confirming my own thoughts. It's puzzling to me how some
                people base their ideas on Tomberg and Powell. I simply can't understand
                this "blindness."

                Sheila
              • Joel Wendt
                ... Dear Dr Starman, This is basically pretty much erroneous. Perhaps you should do some research and some real thinking about this before making
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 9, 2002
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                  DRStarman2001@... wrote:
                  > *******Tomberg imagined he could create the Second and Third Class---but was
                  > such a failure at spiritual science that he went back to being a Catholic...
                  > and thought that was a big step forward! Rejopining the Church that put
                  > Steiner's books on the Index. I don't think anyone has anything to learn
                  > from a hanger-on to our movement like that.

                  Dear Dr Starman,

                  This is basically pretty much erroneous. Perhaps you should do some
                  research and some real "thinking" about this before making
                  pronouncements.

                  joel
                • Bradford Riley
                  Maybe I missed something but Powell and I were at the Goetheanum together and I have gained a great deal from his research. Yet there may be some valid proof
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 9, 2002
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                    Maybe I missed something but Powell and I were at the Goetheanum together
                    and I have gained a great deal from his research. Yet there may be some
                    valid proof that his insights are amiss. So, his star work and Mercury Star
                    Journal and Grail insights have been very, very well grounded for me. IMO. I
                    met with Willi Sucher and read his works and certainly Astrosophy needed a
                    champion or two and certainly some of these researchers working on Sophia
                    indications have worked diligently when working out Star Wisdom. Powell's
                    research on the Christ event and his work with the visionary that Brentano
                    witnessed was very creative, and fine work out of the Michael School. There
                    very well might be some difference between early and later works I grant
                    you... What am I missing here?

                    I was around when the Ramensburgers first started putting out Tomberg's
                    work. A great deal of Tomberg's work is rich and profound so my question is,
                    what am I missing in this picture? What part of the scoundrel school of
                    Michael do you think they emerge from? Are they both false prophets? I
                    would like to square myself with whatever I seem to have missed in my, well
                    35 years in Anthroposophy. Sheila seems to be a good soul, Starman is a
                    little thorny but has fine research, so what is the scorn we heap on those
                    who have contributed to the Michael School? I certainly am willing to
                    correct my false impression, if I have one.

                    Bradford




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