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Re: [anthroposophy] tiny question

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  • Lil Ole Miss
    Dear Dr. Starman, How right you are! You would also know how often he referred to this work, too, and its importance. When I was browsing to see if I had any
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 17, 2001
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      Dear Dr. Starman,

      How right you are! You would also know how often he referred to this work, too, and its
      importance. When I was browsing to see if I had any information for Carol, I found a
      penciled in note I'd made years ago from *Awakening to Community,* and I was thankful
      I'd inserted it onto the fly leaf since it's so very important: "In contrast to passive thinking,
      POF stresses the active element in thinking, amphasing how the will enters into it and how
      one can become aware of one's own inner activity in the exercise of what I have called
      pure thinking. In this connection I showed that all purely moral impulses have their origin in
      this pure thinking. I tried to point out how the will strides into the otherwise passive realm of
      thought, stirring it awake and making the thinker inwardly active. Now what kind of reader
      approach did the POF count on? It has to assume a special way of reading. It expected the
      reader as he read to undergo the sort of inner experience that, in an external sense, is
      really just like waking up from sleep in the morning. The feeling one should have about it
      is..."My relation to the world in passive thought was, on a higher level, that of a person who
      lies asleep. Now I am waking up." ... "I am beginning to be active inwardly in my thoughts--
      they are a living active function."

      WOW! Now I can see how neglectful I was in not noting the page number for this, nor the
      lecture the following penciled note in my POF is from: "...it is yet true that such a book as
      my POF cannot be grasped by mere logic, it must be understood by the whole human
      being. And in point of fact you will not understand what is said in that book concerning
      Thinking, unless you know that in reality man experiences Thought by means of the inner
      knowledge and feeling of his skeleton. A man does not really think with the brain, he thinks
      with his skeleton, when he thinks in charply defined thoughts. And when thought becomes
      concrete, as is the case in the POF, then it passes over into the whole human body."

      This entire work is so important!

      Blessings,

      Sheila

      12/17/2001 4:13:03 PM, DRStarman2001@... wrote:
      > lilolemiss@... writes:
      > << Carol, I looked in my 1970 edition of POF, and have what identical to
      > what
      > you have: Preface to the revised edition of 1918; and
      > Preface to the first edition, 1894, revised 1918 where RS mentions "Only the
      >
      > very first introductory sentences of this preface [in the
      > fist edition] have been altogether omitted here because today they seem to
      > me
      > quite irrelevant."... Hmmmm maybe someone has a
      > very old edition and could help us out.
      > Blessings,
      > Sheila >>
      >
      > *******Not likely----since I believe what you're both referring to was some
      > slight changes he made to the book, in the original German, when it was
      > reprinted in 1918. I don't think too many people here will have the 1894 and
      >
      > 1918 German texts to compare.
      >
      > You know, the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is 14 sections and it's an
      > anthroposophic exercise to take it over 14 days... and it's also an
      > anthroposophic tradition to take a book to study intensively over the 12
      > Holy
      > Nights....
      >
      > Starman
      >
      >
      http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/4060/
    • D F
      Dr. Starman, you are probably right about the fact that nobody around here will have the 1892 edition of POF to tell us what exactly was taken out of the
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 17, 2001
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        Dr. Starman, you are probably right about the fact
        that nobody around here will have the 1892 edition of
        POF to tell us what exactly was taken out of the
        original preface. But, if anybody knows are knows how
        to know, don't be shy....

        Oh, and thanks for reminding me about the 14 parts of
        POF and the 12 Holy Nights; I figure I can knock out
        chap 13 (not one of my favorites) and combine chapter
        6 and 7 to get me to 12 holy nights of POF.

        Carol
        --- DRStarman2001@... wrote:
        >
        > *******Not likely----since I believe what you're
        > both referring to was some
        > slight changes he made to the book, in the original
        > German, when it was
        > reprinted in 1918. I don't think too many people
        > here will have the 1894 and
        > 1918 German texts to compare.
        >
        > You know, the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is 14
        > sections and it's an
        > anthroposophic exercise to take it over 14 days...
        > and it's also an
        > anthroposophic tradition to take a book to study
        > intensively over the 12 Holy
        > Nights....
        >
        > Starman
        >


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      • DRStarman2001@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/17/01 11:35:18 PM, softabyss@yahoo.com writes:
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 17, 2001
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          In a message dated 12/17/01 11:35:18 PM, softabyss@... writes:

          << Dr. Starman, you are probably right about the fact
          that nobody around here will have the 1892 edition of
          POF to tell us what exactly was taken out of the
          original preface. But, if anybody knows are knows how
          to know, don't be shy....

          Oh, and thanks for reminding me about the 14 parts of
          POF and the 12 Holy Nights; I figure I can knock out
          chap 13 (not one of my favorites) and combine chapter
          6 and 7 to get me to 12 holy nights of POF.

          Carol >>

          *******We could do it online also. We took a book and studied it together
          online last year on the Steiner list. We still haven't chosen one for this
          year there. Taking the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is pretty daunting,
          though...
        • D F
          ... Indeed, but let s go for it! Or, rather, I m all for it. How did you do it last year? Carol __________________________________________________ Do You
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 17, 2001
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            > *******We could do it online also. We took a book
            > and studied it together
            > online last year on the Steiner list. We still
            > haven't chosen one for this
            > year there. Taking the Philosophy of Spiritual
            > Activity is pretty daunting,
            > though...
            >
            Indeed, but let's go for it! Or, rather, I'm all for
            it. How did you do it last year?

            Carol

            __________________________________________________
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          • dsbarford
            ... number for this, nor the ... yet true that such a book as ... the whole human ... that book concerning ... by means of the inner ... with the brain, he
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 18, 2001
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              --- In anthroposophy@y..., Lil Ole Miss <lilolemiss@m...> wrote:
              > WOW! Now I can see how neglectful I was in not noting the page
              number for this, nor the
              > lecture the following penciled note in my POF is from: "...it is
              yet true that such a book as
              > my POF cannot be grasped by mere logic, it must be understood by
              the whole human
              > being. And in point of fact you will not understand what is said in
              that book concerning
              > Thinking, unless you know that in reality man experiences Thought
              by means of the inner
              > knowledge and feeling of his skeleton. A man does not really think
              with the brain, he thinks
              > with his skeleton, when he thinks in charply defined thoughts. And
              when thought becomes
              > concrete, as is the case in the POF, then it passes over into the
              whole human body."
              >
              Dear Sheila,
              By some seredipity I was reading this actual lecture last night
              before bed. It is the first lecture in the small collection of
              lectures to the workmen at the Goetheanum titled (something
              like...) 'Learning to See in the Spiritual World' - I cannot remember
              the year, but the dates were June 23 - July 18 (I can see the words
              in my mind but just can't see the year..).
              Debbie Barford
            • Lil Ole Miss
              ... Debbie, how great!!!!!! There are no coincidences... [RS} I m very grateful to you and I think I have those under a different title. [?] I wish the
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 18, 2001
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                dsbarford wrote:
                >
                > --- In anthroposophy@y..., Lil Ole Miss <lilolemiss@m...> wrote:
                > > WOW! Now I can see how neglectful I was in not noting the page
                >
                > number for this, nor the
                > > lecture the following penciled note in my POF is from: "...it
                > is
                > yet true that such a book as
                > > my POF cannot be grasped by mere logic, it must be understood
                > by
                > the whole human
                > > being. And in point of fact you will not understand what is
                > said in
                > that book concerning
                > > Thinking, unless you know that in reality man experiences
                > Thought
                > by means of the inner
                > > knowledge and feeling of his skeleton. A man does not really
                > think
                > with the brain, he thinks
                > > with his skeleton, when he thinks in charply defined thoughts.
                > And
                > when thought becomes
                > > concrete, as is the case in the POF, then it passes over into
                > the
                > whole human body."
                > >
                > Dear Sheila,
                > By some seredipity I was reading this actual lecture last night
                > before bed. It is the first lecture in the small collection of
                > lectures to the workmen at the Goetheanum titled (something
                > like...) 'Learning to See in the Spiritual World' - I cannot
                > remember
                > the year, but the dates were June 23 - July 18 (I can see the
                > words
                > in my mind but just can't see the year..).
                > Debbie Barford

                Debbie, how great!!!!!! "There are no coincidences..." [RS} I'm
                very grateful to you and I think I have those under a different
                title. [?] I wish the titles would remain static, but perhaps we'd
                become too complacent if that was continued. I can track this down
                via the month and day with some snooping around! Thanks - thanks -
                thanks!
                Blessings,
                Sheila
              • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                ... though... ... Indeed, but let s go for it! Or, rather, I m all for it. How did you do it last year? Carol *******We just set a starting day---Christmas
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 18, 2001
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                  > *******We could do it online also. We took a book and studied it together
                  > online last year on the Steiner list. We still haven't chosen one for this
                  > year there. Taking the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is pretty daunting,
                  though...
                  >
                  Indeed, but let's go for it! Or, rather, I'm all for it. How did you do it
                  last year?
                  Carol >>

                  *******We just set a starting day---Christmas Eve---and then people
                  volunteered to take a chapter each day and give everyone else their
                  understanding of it; and then we discussed it---just as a group meeting for
                  the 12 Nights would do. This was on the "Steiner" list which is also here at
                  Yahoo!groups and easy to join, if people don't want to do it here on the
                  anthroposophy list. I'm moderating the Steiner list now, and no one there has
                  chosen a different book to do yet...

                  Starman
                • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                  Now you see what I meant that the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is a Path in itself. ... from: ...it ... must be understood by the whole human being. And
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 18, 2001
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                    Now you see what I meant that the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is a Path
                    in itself.

                    > --- In anthroposophy@y..., Lil Ole Miss <lilolemiss@m...> wrote:
                    > > WOW! Now I can see how neglectful I was in not noting the page
                    > number for this, nor the lecture the following penciled note in my POF is
                    from: "...it
                    > is yet true that such a book as my POF cannot be grasped by mere logic, it
                    must be understood by the whole human being. And in point of fact you will
                    not understand what is said in that book concerning Thinking, unless you know
                    that in reality man experiences
                    > Thought by means of the inner knowledge and feeling of his skeleton. A man
                    does not really think with the brain, he thinks with his skeleton, when he
                    thinks in charply defined thoughts. And when thought becomes concrete, as is
                    the case in the POF, then it passes over into the whole human body."
                    > >
                    > Dear Sheila,
                    > By some seredipity I was reading this actual lecture last night before bed.
                    It is the first lecture in the small collection of lectures to the workmen
                    at the Goetheanum titled (something like...) 'Learning to See in the
                    Spiritual World' - I cannot
                    > remember the year, but the dates were June 23 - July 18 (I can see the
                    > words in my mind but just can't see the year..).
                    > Debbie Barford

                    ******I believe the title was "How Do We See Into The Spiritual World?"

                    Debbie, how great!!!!!! "There are no coincidences..." [RS} I'm
                    very grateful to you and I think I have those under a different
                    title. [?] I wish the titles would remain static, but perhaps we'd
                    become too complacent if that was continued. I can track this down
                    via the month and day with some snooping around! Thanks - thanks -
                    thanks!
                    Blessings,
                    Sheila
                    >>
                    *******You can find large sections of it quoted, along with many other
                    lectures, in the book "Rudolf Steiner on his Book The Philosophy of Freedom",
                    collected and arranged in the 1980s by an author whose name I forget. I no
                    longer have my copy but the Library has it.

                    Starman
                  • D F
                    First of all, count me in the POF study group if it happens. Second, Otto Palmer Carol ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 18, 2001
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                      First of all, count me in the POF study group if it
                      happens. Second,

                      Otto Palmer

                      Carol

                      > *******You can find large sections of it quoted,
                      > along with many other
                      > lectures, in the book "Rudolf Steiner on his Book
                      > The Philosophy of Freedom",
                      > collected and arranged in the 1980s by an author
                      > whose name I forget. I no
                      > longer have my copy but the Library has it.
                      >
                      > Starman
                      >


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                    • elaineupton2001
                      Hello all, Someone (Starman or other?) suggested reading/studying PoF, Philosophy of Freedom, or aka Philosophy of Spiritual Activity on line. I write to say
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 19, 2001
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                        Hello all,

                        Someone (Starman or other?) suggested reading/studying PoF,
                        Philosophy of Freedom, or aka Philosophy of Spiritual Activity on
                        line. I write to say that that is already being done, for quite some
                        time by another online group. This doesn't mean that you cannot do it
                        here also, but just wanted you to know. I think the other group might
                        be by invitation or it might be already quite full, but I am not sure.

                        Dona Nobis Pacem, Salaams, Shalom,
                        elaine
                      • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 19, 2001
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                          << Someone (Starman or other?) suggested reading/studying PoF, Philosophy of
                          Freedom, or aka Philosophy of Spiritual Activity online. I write to say that
                          that is already being done, for quite some time by another online group... >>

                          *******Yes but we were talking about doing it as an intensive over the 12
                          Nights. The other group can go on doing whatever they're doing.
                          An intensive may do much more in an amazingly short time, as it focusses
                          the will.

                          Starman
                        • D F
                          ... At the risk of repetitive annoyance, count me in... Carol __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 19, 2001
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                            > *******Yes but we were talking about doing it as an
                            > intensive over the 12
                            > Nights. The other group can go on doing whatever
                            > they're doing.
                            > An intensive may do much more in an amazingly
                            > short time, as it focusses
                            > the will.


                            At the risk of repetitive annoyance, count me in...

                            Carol


                            __________________________________________________
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                            Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
                            your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
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                          • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 19, 2001
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                              < ******* we were talking about doing it (PoF) as an intensive over the 12
                              Nights....
                              > An intensive may do much more in an amazingly short time, as it
                              focusses the will.


                              <<<At the risk of repetitive annoyance, count me in... Carol >>

                              ********Well, let's get the people together to do it then. If the moderators
                              here don't want us to do it here, we can do it on the Steiner list I now
                              moderate. It's part of Yahoo!groups too and it's easy to join from <A
                              HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups">Yahoo! Groups</A> main page.
                            • elaineupton2001
                              Yes, Starman, good idea in what you say below about focussing intensely over 12 days on PoF. best wishes, elaine ... Philosophy of ... say that ... group...
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 20, 2001
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                                Yes, Starman, good idea in what you say below about focussing
                                intensely over 12 days on PoF.
                                best wishes,
                                elaine

                                --- In anthroposophy@y..., DRStarman2001@a... wrote:
                                >
                                > << Someone (Starman or other?) suggested reading/studying PoF,
                                Philosophy of
                                > Freedom, or aka Philosophy of Spiritual Activity online. I write to
                                say that
                                > that is already being done, for quite some time by another online
                                group... >>
                                >
                                > *******Yes but we were talking about doing it as an intensive over
                                the 12
                                > Nights. The other group can go on doing whatever they're doing.
                                > An intensive may do much more in an amazingly short time, as it
                                focusses
                                > the will.
                                >
                                > Starman
                              • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                                lilolemiss@mindspring.com writes:
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 21, 2001
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                                  lilolemiss@... writes:
                                  << Dear Dr. Starman,
                                  How right you are! You would also know how often he referred to this work,
                                  too, and its
                                  importance. When I was browsing to see if I had any information for Carol, I
                                  found a
                                  penciled in note I'd made years ago from *Awakening to Community,* and I was
                                  thankful
                                  I'd inserted it onto the fly leaf since it's so very important: "In contrast
                                  to passive thinking, POF stresses the active element in thinking, amphasing
                                  how the will enters into it and how one can become aware of one's own inner
                                  activity in the exercise of what I have called pure thinking. In this
                                  connection I showed that all purely moral impulses have their origin in this
                                  pure thinking. I tried to point out how the will strides into the otherwise
                                  passive realm of thought, stirring it awake and making the thinker inwardly
                                  active. Now what kind of reader approach did the POF count on? It has to
                                  assume a special way of reading. It expected the reader as he read to undergo
                                  the sort of inner experience that, in an external sense, is really just like
                                  waking up from sleep in the morning. The feeling one should have about it
                                  is..."My relation to the world in passive thought was, on a higher level,
                                  that of a person who lies asleep. Now I am waking up." ... "I am beginning to
                                  be active inwardly in my thoughts--they are a living active function."

                                  WOW! Now I can see how neglectful I was in not noting the page number for
                                  this, nor the
                                  lecture the following penciled note in my POF is from: "...it is yet true
                                  that such a book as my POF cannot be grasped by mere logic, it must be
                                  understood by the whole human
                                  being. And in point of fact you will not understand what is said in that book
                                  concerning
                                  Thinking, unless you know that in reality man experiences Thought by means of
                                  the inner
                                  knowledge and feeling of his skeleton. A man does not really think with the
                                  brain, he thinks with his skeleton, when he thinks in charply defined
                                  thoughts. And when thought becomes concrete, as is the case in the POF, then
                                  it passes over into the whole human body."
                                  This entire work is so important!
                                  Blessings,
                                  Sheila >>

                                  *******Well, we're going to take and read the Philosophy of Spirtual Activity
                                  together on the "Steiner" list here at Yahoo!groups for the 12 Holy Nights.
                                  Anyone is welcome to join us who feels like walking that Path. Just follow
                                  this link and search for the Steiner list and join.... <A
                                  HREF="http://login.yahoo.com/config/login?.intl=us&.src=ygrp&.done=http://grou

                                  ps.yahoo.com%2Fmygroups">Sign in - Yahoo! Groups</A>
                                  After the 12 Holy Nights we'll be reading "Theosophy" together on the
                                  "RudolfSteiner101" list which can also be joined from the Yahoo!groups main
                                  page.
                                  Dr. Starman
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