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Health and Illness the causes of:

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  • jeff auen
    Bill, This is rather subtle but ambiguous below. I think I know what is implied but others may not. Care to amplify. Beside being brief it can be seen as
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 14, 2001
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      Bill,
       
      This is rather subtle but ambiguous below. I think I know what is implied but others may not. Care to amplify. Beside being brief it can be seen as overly simplistic and yet another example of the  "knowledge deficiency of  AP" towards health and illness. If one smokes for 40 years and develops lung or throat cancer (like George Harrison) this is our doing not Ahriman's. If one is eats poisonous mushrooms and dies, its an environmentally caused illness. Nervous conditions can be easily provoked by drinking too much caffeine or sugar or being exposed to certain kinds of music which in turn impacts the etheric and astral bodies, of course, but its again caused by "outside" influences coming into us.
      ----- Jeff
       

      . All disorders in the physical body
      have their origin in the astral body and all disorders in the astral
      body have their origin in the physical body. Ahriman is the main cause
      of all organic illnesses and Lucifer, the cause of all nervous
      illnesses. This, and healing, is something that needs inclusion.
      Biodynamic medicine addresses some of it, but it doesn't go deep enough,
      in my opinion.

      Bill

      D F wrote:




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    • D F
      I wonder if any of you guys and girls out there could tell me what exactly Steiner deleted from his original preface to POF in the 1918 edition. Whenever I
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 16, 2001
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        I wonder if any of you guys and girls out there could
        tell me what exactly Steiner deleted from his original
        preface to POF in the 1918 edition. Whenever I read
        his comments about how he felt nothing needed to be
        changed except for a few comments which he didn't find
        necessary, I always want to know what was taken away.
        Does anybody know this? Thanks

        Carol

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      • Lil Ole Miss
        Carol, I looked in my 1970 edition of POF, and have what identical to what you have: Preface to the revised edition of 1918; and Preface to the first edition,
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 17, 2001
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          Carol, I looked in my 1970 edition of POF, and have what identical to what you have: Preface to the revised edition of 1918; and
          Preface to the first edition, 1894, revised 1918 where RS mentions "Only the very first introductory sentences of this preface [in the
          fist edition] have been altogether omitted here because today they seem to me quite irrelevant."... Hmmmm maybe someone has a
          very old edition and could help us out.

          Blessings,

          Sheila

          12/16/2001 6:48:32 PM, D F <softabyss@...> wrote:
          I wonder if any of you guys and girls out there could
          > tell me what exactly Steiner deleted from his original
          > preface to POF in the 1918 edition. Whenever I read
          > his comments about how he felt nothing needed to be
          > changed except for a few comments which he didn't find
          > necessary, I always want to know what was taken away.
          > Does anybody know this? Thanks
          >
          > Carol
          Those who cannot hear the music think that the dancer is mad.
        • DRStarman2001@aol.com
          lilolemiss@mindspring.com writes:
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 17, 2001
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            lilolemiss@... writes:
            << Carol, I looked in my 1970 edition of POF, and have what identical to what
            you have: Preface to the revised edition of 1918; and
            Preface to the first edition, 1894, revised 1918 where RS mentions "Only the
            very first introductory sentences of this preface [in the
            fist edition] have been altogether omitted here because today they seem to me
            quite irrelevant."... Hmmmm maybe someone has a
            very old edition and could help us out.
            Blessings,
            Sheila >>

            *******Not likely----since I believe what you're both referring to was some
            slight changes he made to the book, in the original German, when it was
            reprinted in 1918. I don't think too many people here will have the 1894 and
            1918 German texts to compare.

            You know, the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is 14 sections and it's an
            anthroposophic exercise to take it over 14 days... and it's also an
            anthroposophic tradition to take a book to study intensively over the 12 Holy
            Nights....

            Starman
          • Lil Ole Miss
            Dear Dr. Starman, How right you are! You would also know how often he referred to this work, too, and its importance. When I was browsing to see if I had any
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 17, 2001
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              Dear Dr. Starman,

              How right you are! You would also know how often he referred to this work, too, and its
              importance. When I was browsing to see if I had any information for Carol, I found a
              penciled in note I'd made years ago from *Awakening to Community,* and I was thankful
              I'd inserted it onto the fly leaf since it's so very important: "In contrast to passive thinking,
              POF stresses the active element in thinking, amphasing how the will enters into it and how
              one can become aware of one's own inner activity in the exercise of what I have called
              pure thinking. In this connection I showed that all purely moral impulses have their origin in
              this pure thinking. I tried to point out how the will strides into the otherwise passive realm of
              thought, stirring it awake and making the thinker inwardly active. Now what kind of reader
              approach did the POF count on? It has to assume a special way of reading. It expected the
              reader as he read to undergo the sort of inner experience that, in an external sense, is
              really just like waking up from sleep in the morning. The feeling one should have about it
              is..."My relation to the world in passive thought was, on a higher level, that of a person who
              lies asleep. Now I am waking up." ... "I am beginning to be active inwardly in my thoughts--
              they are a living active function."

              WOW! Now I can see how neglectful I was in not noting the page number for this, nor the
              lecture the following penciled note in my POF is from: "...it is yet true that such a book as
              my POF cannot be grasped by mere logic, it must be understood by the whole human
              being. And in point of fact you will not understand what is said in that book concerning
              Thinking, unless you know that in reality man experiences Thought by means of the inner
              knowledge and feeling of his skeleton. A man does not really think with the brain, he thinks
              with his skeleton, when he thinks in charply defined thoughts. And when thought becomes
              concrete, as is the case in the POF, then it passes over into the whole human body."

              This entire work is so important!

              Blessings,

              Sheila

              12/17/2001 4:13:03 PM, DRStarman2001@... wrote:
              > lilolemiss@... writes:
              > << Carol, I looked in my 1970 edition of POF, and have what identical to
              > what
              > you have: Preface to the revised edition of 1918; and
              > Preface to the first edition, 1894, revised 1918 where RS mentions "Only the
              >
              > very first introductory sentences of this preface [in the
              > fist edition] have been altogether omitted here because today they seem to
              > me
              > quite irrelevant."... Hmmmm maybe someone has a
              > very old edition and could help us out.
              > Blessings,
              > Sheila >>
              >
              > *******Not likely----since I believe what you're both referring to was some
              > slight changes he made to the book, in the original German, when it was
              > reprinted in 1918. I don't think too many people here will have the 1894 and
              >
              > 1918 German texts to compare.
              >
              > You know, the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is 14 sections and it's an
              > anthroposophic exercise to take it over 14 days... and it's also an
              > anthroposophic tradition to take a book to study intensively over the 12
              > Holy
              > Nights....
              >
              > Starman
              >
              >
              http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/4060/
            • D F
              Dr. Starman, you are probably right about the fact that nobody around here will have the 1892 edition of POF to tell us what exactly was taken out of the
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 17, 2001
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                Dr. Starman, you are probably right about the fact
                that nobody around here will have the 1892 edition of
                POF to tell us what exactly was taken out of the
                original preface. But, if anybody knows are knows how
                to know, don't be shy....

                Oh, and thanks for reminding me about the 14 parts of
                POF and the 12 Holy Nights; I figure I can knock out
                chap 13 (not one of my favorites) and combine chapter
                6 and 7 to get me to 12 holy nights of POF.

                Carol
                --- DRStarman2001@... wrote:
                >
                > *******Not likely----since I believe what you're
                > both referring to was some
                > slight changes he made to the book, in the original
                > German, when it was
                > reprinted in 1918. I don't think too many people
                > here will have the 1894 and
                > 1918 German texts to compare.
                >
                > You know, the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is 14
                > sections and it's an
                > anthroposophic exercise to take it over 14 days...
                > and it's also an
                > anthroposophic tradition to take a book to study
                > intensively over the 12 Holy
                > Nights....
                >
                > Starman
                >


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              • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/17/01 11:35:18 PM, softabyss@yahoo.com writes:
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 17, 2001
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                  In a message dated 12/17/01 11:35:18 PM, softabyss@... writes:

                  << Dr. Starman, you are probably right about the fact
                  that nobody around here will have the 1892 edition of
                  POF to tell us what exactly was taken out of the
                  original preface. But, if anybody knows are knows how
                  to know, don't be shy....

                  Oh, and thanks for reminding me about the 14 parts of
                  POF and the 12 Holy Nights; I figure I can knock out
                  chap 13 (not one of my favorites) and combine chapter
                  6 and 7 to get me to 12 holy nights of POF.

                  Carol >>

                  *******We could do it online also. We took a book and studied it together
                  online last year on the Steiner list. We still haven't chosen one for this
                  year there. Taking the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is pretty daunting,
                  though...
                • D F
                  ... Indeed, but let s go for it! Or, rather, I m all for it. How did you do it last year? Carol __________________________________________________ Do You
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 17, 2001
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                    > *******We could do it online also. We took a book
                    > and studied it together
                    > online last year on the Steiner list. We still
                    > haven't chosen one for this
                    > year there. Taking the Philosophy of Spiritual
                    > Activity is pretty daunting,
                    > though...
                    >
                    Indeed, but let's go for it! Or, rather, I'm all for
                    it. How did you do it last year?

                    Carol

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                  • dsbarford
                    ... number for this, nor the ... yet true that such a book as ... the whole human ... that book concerning ... by means of the inner ... with the brain, he
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 18, 2001
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                      --- In anthroposophy@y..., Lil Ole Miss <lilolemiss@m...> wrote:
                      > WOW! Now I can see how neglectful I was in not noting the page
                      number for this, nor the
                      > lecture the following penciled note in my POF is from: "...it is
                      yet true that such a book as
                      > my POF cannot be grasped by mere logic, it must be understood by
                      the whole human
                      > being. And in point of fact you will not understand what is said in
                      that book concerning
                      > Thinking, unless you know that in reality man experiences Thought
                      by means of the inner
                      > knowledge and feeling of his skeleton. A man does not really think
                      with the brain, he thinks
                      > with his skeleton, when he thinks in charply defined thoughts. And
                      when thought becomes
                      > concrete, as is the case in the POF, then it passes over into the
                      whole human body."
                      >
                      Dear Sheila,
                      By some seredipity I was reading this actual lecture last night
                      before bed. It is the first lecture in the small collection of
                      lectures to the workmen at the Goetheanum titled (something
                      like...) 'Learning to See in the Spiritual World' - I cannot remember
                      the year, but the dates were June 23 - July 18 (I can see the words
                      in my mind but just can't see the year..).
                      Debbie Barford
                    • Lil Ole Miss
                      ... Debbie, how great!!!!!! There are no coincidences... [RS} I m very grateful to you and I think I have those under a different title. [?] I wish the
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 18, 2001
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                        dsbarford wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In anthroposophy@y..., Lil Ole Miss <lilolemiss@m...> wrote:
                        > > WOW! Now I can see how neglectful I was in not noting the page
                        >
                        > number for this, nor the
                        > > lecture the following penciled note in my POF is from: "...it
                        > is
                        > yet true that such a book as
                        > > my POF cannot be grasped by mere logic, it must be understood
                        > by
                        > the whole human
                        > > being. And in point of fact you will not understand what is
                        > said in
                        > that book concerning
                        > > Thinking, unless you know that in reality man experiences
                        > Thought
                        > by means of the inner
                        > > knowledge and feeling of his skeleton. A man does not really
                        > think
                        > with the brain, he thinks
                        > > with his skeleton, when he thinks in charply defined thoughts.
                        > And
                        > when thought becomes
                        > > concrete, as is the case in the POF, then it passes over into
                        > the
                        > whole human body."
                        > >
                        > Dear Sheila,
                        > By some seredipity I was reading this actual lecture last night
                        > before bed. It is the first lecture in the small collection of
                        > lectures to the workmen at the Goetheanum titled (something
                        > like...) 'Learning to See in the Spiritual World' - I cannot
                        > remember
                        > the year, but the dates were June 23 - July 18 (I can see the
                        > words
                        > in my mind but just can't see the year..).
                        > Debbie Barford

                        Debbie, how great!!!!!! "There are no coincidences..." [RS} I'm
                        very grateful to you and I think I have those under a different
                        title. [?] I wish the titles would remain static, but perhaps we'd
                        become too complacent if that was continued. I can track this down
                        via the month and day with some snooping around! Thanks - thanks -
                        thanks!
                        Blessings,
                        Sheila
                      • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                        ... though... ... Indeed, but let s go for it! Or, rather, I m all for it. How did you do it last year? Carol *******We just set a starting day---Christmas
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 18, 2001
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                          > *******We could do it online also. We took a book and studied it together
                          > online last year on the Steiner list. We still haven't chosen one for this
                          > year there. Taking the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is pretty daunting,
                          though...
                          >
                          Indeed, but let's go for it! Or, rather, I'm all for it. How did you do it
                          last year?
                          Carol >>

                          *******We just set a starting day---Christmas Eve---and then people
                          volunteered to take a chapter each day and give everyone else their
                          understanding of it; and then we discussed it---just as a group meeting for
                          the 12 Nights would do. This was on the "Steiner" list which is also here at
                          Yahoo!groups and easy to join, if people don't want to do it here on the
                          anthroposophy list. I'm moderating the Steiner list now, and no one there has
                          chosen a different book to do yet...

                          Starman
                        • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                          Now you see what I meant that the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is a Path in itself. ... from: ...it ... must be understood by the whole human being. And
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 18, 2001
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                            Now you see what I meant that the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity is a Path
                            in itself.

                            > --- In anthroposophy@y..., Lil Ole Miss <lilolemiss@m...> wrote:
                            > > WOW! Now I can see how neglectful I was in not noting the page
                            > number for this, nor the lecture the following penciled note in my POF is
                            from: "...it
                            > is yet true that such a book as my POF cannot be grasped by mere logic, it
                            must be understood by the whole human being. And in point of fact you will
                            not understand what is said in that book concerning Thinking, unless you know
                            that in reality man experiences
                            > Thought by means of the inner knowledge and feeling of his skeleton. A man
                            does not really think with the brain, he thinks with his skeleton, when he
                            thinks in charply defined thoughts. And when thought becomes concrete, as is
                            the case in the POF, then it passes over into the whole human body."
                            > >
                            > Dear Sheila,
                            > By some seredipity I was reading this actual lecture last night before bed.
                            It is the first lecture in the small collection of lectures to the workmen
                            at the Goetheanum titled (something like...) 'Learning to See in the
                            Spiritual World' - I cannot
                            > remember the year, but the dates were June 23 - July 18 (I can see the
                            > words in my mind but just can't see the year..).
                            > Debbie Barford

                            ******I believe the title was "How Do We See Into The Spiritual World?"

                            Debbie, how great!!!!!! "There are no coincidences..." [RS} I'm
                            very grateful to you and I think I have those under a different
                            title. [?] I wish the titles would remain static, but perhaps we'd
                            become too complacent if that was continued. I can track this down
                            via the month and day with some snooping around! Thanks - thanks -
                            thanks!
                            Blessings,
                            Sheila
                            >>
                            *******You can find large sections of it quoted, along with many other
                            lectures, in the book "Rudolf Steiner on his Book The Philosophy of Freedom",
                            collected and arranged in the 1980s by an author whose name I forget. I no
                            longer have my copy but the Library has it.

                            Starman
                          • D F
                            First of all, count me in the POF study group if it happens. Second, Otto Palmer Carol ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 18, 2001
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                              First of all, count me in the POF study group if it
                              happens. Second,

                              Otto Palmer

                              Carol

                              > *******You can find large sections of it quoted,
                              > along with many other
                              > lectures, in the book "Rudolf Steiner on his Book
                              > The Philosophy of Freedom",
                              > collected and arranged in the 1980s by an author
                              > whose name I forget. I no
                              > longer have my copy but the Library has it.
                              >
                              > Starman
                              >


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                            • elaineupton2001
                              Hello all, Someone (Starman or other?) suggested reading/studying PoF, Philosophy of Freedom, or aka Philosophy of Spiritual Activity on line. I write to say
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 19, 2001
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                                Hello all,

                                Someone (Starman or other?) suggested reading/studying PoF,
                                Philosophy of Freedom, or aka Philosophy of Spiritual Activity on
                                line. I write to say that that is already being done, for quite some
                                time by another online group. This doesn't mean that you cannot do it
                                here also, but just wanted you to know. I think the other group might
                                be by invitation or it might be already quite full, but I am not sure.

                                Dona Nobis Pacem, Salaams, Shalom,
                                elaine
                              • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 19, 2001
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                                  << Someone (Starman or other?) suggested reading/studying PoF, Philosophy of
                                  Freedom, or aka Philosophy of Spiritual Activity online. I write to say that
                                  that is already being done, for quite some time by another online group... >>

                                  *******Yes but we were talking about doing it as an intensive over the 12
                                  Nights. The other group can go on doing whatever they're doing.
                                  An intensive may do much more in an amazingly short time, as it focusses
                                  the will.

                                  Starman
                                • D F
                                  ... At the risk of repetitive annoyance, count me in... Carol __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 19, 2001
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                                    > *******Yes but we were talking about doing it as an
                                    > intensive over the 12
                                    > Nights. The other group can go on doing whatever
                                    > they're doing.
                                    > An intensive may do much more in an amazingly
                                    > short time, as it focusses
                                    > the will.


                                    At the risk of repetitive annoyance, count me in...

                                    Carol


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                                  • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Dec 19, 2001
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                                      < ******* we were talking about doing it (PoF) as an intensive over the 12
                                      Nights....
                                      > An intensive may do much more in an amazingly short time, as it
                                      focusses the will.


                                      <<<At the risk of repetitive annoyance, count me in... Carol >>

                                      ********Well, let's get the people together to do it then. If the moderators
                                      here don't want us to do it here, we can do it on the Steiner list I now
                                      moderate. It's part of Yahoo!groups too and it's easy to join from <A
                                      HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups">Yahoo! Groups</A> main page.
                                    • elaineupton2001
                                      Yes, Starman, good idea in what you say below about focussing intensely over 12 days on PoF. best wishes, elaine ... Philosophy of ... say that ... group...
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Dec 20, 2001
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                                        Yes, Starman, good idea in what you say below about focussing
                                        intensely over 12 days on PoF.
                                        best wishes,
                                        elaine

                                        --- In anthroposophy@y..., DRStarman2001@a... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > << Someone (Starman or other?) suggested reading/studying PoF,
                                        Philosophy of
                                        > Freedom, or aka Philosophy of Spiritual Activity online. I write to
                                        say that
                                        > that is already being done, for quite some time by another online
                                        group... >>
                                        >
                                        > *******Yes but we were talking about doing it as an intensive over
                                        the 12
                                        > Nights. The other group can go on doing whatever they're doing.
                                        > An intensive may do much more in an amazingly short time, as it
                                        focusses
                                        > the will.
                                        >
                                        > Starman
                                      • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                                        lilolemiss@mindspring.com writes:
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Dec 21, 2001
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                                          lilolemiss@... writes:
                                          << Dear Dr. Starman,
                                          How right you are! You would also know how often he referred to this work,
                                          too, and its
                                          importance. When I was browsing to see if I had any information for Carol, I
                                          found a
                                          penciled in note I'd made years ago from *Awakening to Community,* and I was
                                          thankful
                                          I'd inserted it onto the fly leaf since it's so very important: "In contrast
                                          to passive thinking, POF stresses the active element in thinking, amphasing
                                          how the will enters into it and how one can become aware of one's own inner
                                          activity in the exercise of what I have called pure thinking. In this
                                          connection I showed that all purely moral impulses have their origin in this
                                          pure thinking. I tried to point out how the will strides into the otherwise
                                          passive realm of thought, stirring it awake and making the thinker inwardly
                                          active. Now what kind of reader approach did the POF count on? It has to
                                          assume a special way of reading. It expected the reader as he read to undergo
                                          the sort of inner experience that, in an external sense, is really just like
                                          waking up from sleep in the morning. The feeling one should have about it
                                          is..."My relation to the world in passive thought was, on a higher level,
                                          that of a person who lies asleep. Now I am waking up." ... "I am beginning to
                                          be active inwardly in my thoughts--they are a living active function."

                                          WOW! Now I can see how neglectful I was in not noting the page number for
                                          this, nor the
                                          lecture the following penciled note in my POF is from: "...it is yet true
                                          that such a book as my POF cannot be grasped by mere logic, it must be
                                          understood by the whole human
                                          being. And in point of fact you will not understand what is said in that book
                                          concerning
                                          Thinking, unless you know that in reality man experiences Thought by means of
                                          the inner
                                          knowledge and feeling of his skeleton. A man does not really think with the
                                          brain, he thinks with his skeleton, when he thinks in charply defined
                                          thoughts. And when thought becomes concrete, as is the case in the POF, then
                                          it passes over into the whole human body."
                                          This entire work is so important!
                                          Blessings,
                                          Sheila >>

                                          *******Well, we're going to take and read the Philosophy of Spirtual Activity
                                          together on the "Steiner" list here at Yahoo!groups for the 12 Holy Nights.
                                          Anyone is welcome to join us who feels like walking that Path. Just follow
                                          this link and search for the Steiner list and join.... <A
                                          HREF="http://login.yahoo.com/config/login?.intl=us&.src=ygrp&.done=http://grou

                                          ps.yahoo.com%2Fmygroups">Sign in - Yahoo! Groups</A>
                                          After the 12 Holy Nights we'll be reading "Theosophy" together on the
                                          "RudolfSteiner101" list which can also be joined from the Yahoo!groups main
                                          page.
                                          Dr. Starman
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