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Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange part 10

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  • jeff auen
    ... From: DRStarman2001@aol.com To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 3, 2001
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      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 6:29 PM
      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange

      pacbay@... writes:
      << Are there not more interesting subjects to discuss???

      *******Than the answer to the UFO enigma and what it reveals about the other
      dimensions of living beings alongside us? Well, you're welcome to not discuss
      it. Constable and his work based on Steiner has solved the mystery, and had
      it duplicated; see the most recent edition of "The Cosmic Pulse of Life",
      1990, published by the Borderland Sciences Research Foundation.

      >>>My position.... is as follows:

         There are physical visitors in physical crafts visiting our planet from
      other physical planets outside of our solar system....

      *******And your evidence? Read Lt.Col Corso book on Roswell. He headed the Eisenhower army intelligence team to de-engineer the Roswell crash evidence and describes in detail where the crash object and alien bodies were iced and examined; collected, stored and what corporations used alien technology in the 50's to develop some  modern optics and computerization. Watch the tape interview of Jesse Marcel's son (now a MD) who describes in detail his handling of alien craft objects. Those in the govt.know what exits and some are telling. The raid on storehouses has occurred yet but probably will. This is not a new fox video on aliens by the way.

        >>> There are non physical "craft" or vehicles that exit interdimensionally
      and are not physical as we know it. These get confused with physical ones.
      These craft can manifest as distinct "metallic shapes" apart from the "blobs"
      identified by Reich and other bio-orgone theorists....

      *******If you mean Constable, his photos do not show 'blobs' but highly
      articulated giant single-celled organisms. You attempt to have it both ways
      here makes no sense.
      There are many blob pictures as well as well formed metallic craft pictures. Reality can be many-sided and multi-dimensional intrusions can occur. And we can have it 7 ways to one not just one or the other.



      >>>  There are beings that are far craftier than humans that use etheric and
      mental technologies to deceive researchers and conventional men or women into
      believing certain ufo experiences. These beings do not belong our solar
      evolution and are not connected with Ahrimanic stream (though they may
      interact or be using each other)

      *******They're crafty deceivers but are not Ahrimanic beings? Then what are
      they, and why are they deceptive?? And how are they related to your other 2
      theoretical sources?
      Who know for sure what their agendas are but the definably use mind technology and hypnosis to control people for the reports. There has never been any talk or discussion of Ahriman or any supra spiritual Beings ala Steiner. It is possible and probable that they come with a different solar agenda of their own and don't really care about Ahriman or others.

      >>
      >>Most researchers agree that at 10% are unexplainable and many have physical
      attributes and are not projections of the witnesses.

      *******But of course a materializing elemental being would not be.
      And triad shaped landing marks with magnetic and radiation effects on the soil and grass can also be elemental in nature. I have yet to hear of any elemental that can leave magnetic traces or radiation effects affect they depart.


        >>> For some reason there are gaps and a lack of forthcoming knowledge of
      this phenomena from occult sources. Why I do not know but post modern (after
      1950) information cannot be used to explain this phenomena entirely. And that
      goes for Steiner and other esotericists.

      That's all folks.

      *******No, Jeff, you're not on your list now and so that's NOT all. Just
      because you think anthroposophy, because Steiner died in 1925, can't be used
      to understand phenomena that began a few years after his death, doesn't mean
      everyone has to agree with you. He spoke of seeing bell-shaped astral forms
      in the atmosphere and he spoke of the Ahrimanic deception and how it would
      take over our science. Trevor Constable's work is a landmark achievement,
      using Steiner and Wachsmuth and Wilhelm Reich and Radionics to create a true
      scientific discovery of the elementals and make them visible. His showing
      that the alleged physical craft are elementals made to appear that way as
      part of the Ahrimanic deception is just as important.

      Steiner was not all knowing. He did not speak of computers, videophones and rockets to the moon yet may have "seen" them coming. I am not interested in promoting a "personal opinion" but only pointing out what the mass of written reports can only lead one to deduce. One or two statements by two individuals - Steiner and Constable - do not hold enough weight to the over 10 thousand books (some serious, some not) and the over 100,000 first hand reports of witnesses and contactees. Even if one eliminates 99% percent, it only take one case or ten to give plausibility to something not discussed openly in esoteric sources. Anthroposophy can be used for some paranormal interpretations but it is inadequate and antiquated in dealing with phenomena now happening since the 50's. An we are not just talking "UFO's and alien visitors" here but other more "positive" phenomena like the increase in stigmata; Mother Mary appearances; magnetic anomalies as found in Santa Cruz or Oregon; and so on. Etheric theory in AP is weak and undeveloped; astral phenomena descriptions are vague and scattered; references to Ahriman and how this influence works directly in the world (not just in man) is also circumspect to say the least.

      Jeff Auen


       
    • Talk 21
      Greetings, It seems to me that the purpose of this discussion list should be to empower people in a spiritual manner. Information relating to such things as
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 4, 2001
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        Greetings,
         
        It seems to me that the purpose of this discussion list should be to empower people in a spiritual manner. Information relating to such things as UFOs are irrelevant to the empowering of anyone, unless they have been personally involved in experiencing them. Whether UFOs exist or from where they may have come seems to me to be a total waste of time to the subject of Anthroposophy.
         
        It would be far more profitable for us to discuss things which are likely to be within the personal experience of all members and to relate those experiences in a focused manner towards understanding the subject of Anthroposophy.
         
        If Steiner did refer to UFOs and other supposedly physical phenomena outside the realm of normal human experience, then we could discuss that. But only if there exists a realistic possibility of the members gaining something spiritual from the exercise. 
         
        Otherwise, just dump the subject. 
         
        love to all
         
        John Lester 
        -----Original Message-----
        From: jeff auen [mailto:pacbay@...]
        Sent: 04 October 2001 06:54
        To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange part 10

         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 6:29 PM
        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange

        pacbay@... writes:
        << Are there not more interesting subjects to discuss???

        *******Than the answer to the UFO enigma and what it reveals about the other
        dimensions of living beings alongside us? Well, you're welcome to not discuss
        it. Constable and his work based on Steiner has solved the mystery, and had
        it duplicated; see the most recent edition of "The Cosmic Pulse of Life",
        1990, published by the Borderland Sciences Research Foundation.

        >>>My position.... is as follows:

           There are physical visitors in physical crafts visiting our planet from
        other physical planets outside of our solar system....

        *******And your evidence? Read Lt.Col Corso book on Roswell. He headed the Eisenhower army intelligence team to de-engineer the Roswell crash evidence and describes in detail where the crash object and alien bodies were iced and examined; collected, stored and what corporations used alien technology in the 50's to develop some  modern optics and computerization. Watch the tape interview of Jesse Marcel's son (now a MD) who describes in detail his handling of alien craft objects. Those in the govt.know what exits and some are telling. The raid on storehouses has occurred yet but probably will. This is not a new fox video on aliens by the way.

          >>> There are non physical "craft" or vehicles that exit interdimensionally
        and are not physical as we know it. These get confused with physical ones.
        These craft can manifest as distinct "metallic shapes" apart from the "blobs"
        identified by Reich and other bio-orgone theorists....

        *******If you mean Constable, his photos do not show 'blobs' but highly
        articulated giant single-celled organisms. You attempt to have it both ways
        here makes no sense.
        There are many blob pictures as well as well formed metallic craft pictures. Reality can be many-sided and multi-dimensional intrusions can occur. And we can have it 7 ways to one not just one or the other.



        >>>  There are beings that are far craftier than humans that use etheric and
        mental technologies to deceive researchers and conventional men or women into
        believing certain ufo experiences. These beings do not belong our solar
        evolution and are not connected with Ahrimanic stream (though they may
        interact or be using each other)

        *******They're crafty deceivers but are not Ahrimanic beings? Then what are
        they, and why are they deceptive?? And how are they related to your other 2
        theoretical sources?
        Who know for sure what their agendas are but the definably use mind technology and hypnosis to control people for the reports. There has never been any talk or discussion of Ahriman or any supra spiritual Beings ala Steiner. It is possible and probable that they come with a different solar agenda of their own and don't really care about Ahriman or others.

        >>
        >>Most researchers agree that at 10% are unexplainable and many have physical
        attributes and are not projections of the witnesses.

        *******But of course a materializing elemental being would not be.
        And triad shaped landing marks with magnetic and radiation effects on the soil and grass can also be elemental in nature. I have yet to hear of any elemental that can leave magnetic traces or radiation effects affect they depart.


          >>> For some reason there are gaps and a lack of forthcoming knowledge of
        this phenomena from occult sources. Why I do not know but post modern (after
        1950) information cannot be used to explain this phenomena entirely. And that
        goes for Steiner and other esotericists.

        That's all folks.

        *******No, Jeff, you're not on your list now and so that's NOT all. Just
        because you think anthroposophy, because Steiner died in 1925, can't be used
        to understand phenomena that began a few years after his death, doesn't mean
        everyone has to agree with you. He spoke of seeing bell-shaped astral forms
        in the atmosphere and he spoke of the Ahrimanic deception and how it would
        take over our science. Trevor Constable's work is a landmark achievement,
        using Steiner and Wachsmuth and Wilhelm Reich and Radionics to create a true
        scientific discovery of the elementals and make them visible. His showing
        that the alleged physical craft are elementals made to appear that way as
        part of the Ahrimanic deception is just as important.

        Steiner was not all knowing. He did not speak of computers, videophones and rockets to the moon yet may have "seen" them coming. I am not interested in promoting a "personal opinion" but only pointing out what the mass of written reports can only lead one to deduce. One or two statements by two individuals - Steiner and Constable - do not hold enough weight to the over 10 thousand books (some serious, some not) and the over 100,000 first hand reports of witnesses and contactees. Even if one eliminates 99% percent, it only take one case or ten to give plausibility to something not discussed openly in esoteric sources. Anthroposophy can be used for some paranormal interpretations but it is inadequate and antiquated in dealing with phenomena now happening since the 50's. An we are not just talking "UFO's and alien visitors" here but other more "positive" phenomena like the increase in stigmata; Mother Mary appearances; magnetic anomalies as found in Santa Cruz or Oregon; and so on. Etheric theory in AP is weak and undeveloped; astral phenomena descriptions are vague and scattered; references to Ahriman and how this influence works directly in the world (not just in man) is also circumspect to say the least.

        Jeff Auen


         


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      • jeff auen
        Bradford, Good points below. I differ only in that I stand by those who find a distinction between esoteric science, spiritual science and Anthroposophy and
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 4, 2001
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          Bradford,
           
           
          Good points below. I differ only in that I stand by those who find a distinction between esoteric science, spiritual science and Anthroposophy and maybe these will never intersect. Esoteric science contains "spiritual science" (as it is used in these forums). One cannot divorce the methods and peculiarity of AP-spiritual science from Steiner's personality.  This in turn can lead one to deny or doubt any other source that speaks differently or with lesser knowledge. There are many esotericists in the world but their approaches do not coincide or match Steiner's definitions or emphasis.  He may have dug deeper than anyone else but somehow he brought back the gold shaped in a particular form that blurs the edges of esoteric science and history. My overall impression is: can one be a "spiritual scientist" without embracing AP. No. Can one be an esotericist and not an AP. Yes. The best example was Harrison- a contempary of Steiner's. He clearly "discovered" many of the same truths as an esotercist and initiate but communicated them within the broader context of European thought and the mystery schools.
           
          As for using AP to unravel the fantasies and mysteries - this is a hard one. I don't see much interest from AP in investigating the edge of change and the phenomena unfolding before us. AP and computers? AP and Hollywood? AP and genetic engineering? AP and the paranormal? We can theorize about what is happening but we have little to go on in terms of detail.  There is more an interest in interpreting the phenomena and I have tried to overlay AP onto some of it and its just does not work. The Devil/Satan issue is a case in point. On one hand "they" are hindering us and on the other they are helping us. But what is really going on in the pits and bowels of degeneration around the world today as in the case of sexual abuse and exploitation, dark magical practices, sadism, etc. Where is this really coming from? Is it Ahriman exclusively?I don't know and do not think so..
           
           
           
          Jeff
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:58 PM
          Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange part 10




          >From: "jeff auen" <pacbay@...>
          >Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange part 10
          >Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 22:53:35 -0700

          This statement in the argument:

          Anthroposophy can be used for some paranormal interpretations but it is
          inadequate and antiquated in dealing with phenomena now happening since the
          50's.

          Bradford writes;

          There seems to be a profound inadequate comprehension of how deep the
          research is that was launched by this 20th century initiate. There also
          appears to be a great division in ones mind between materialistic science
          and spiritual science. It is a functioning dualism that hasn't been able to
          integrate itself enough to surprise oneself in just how profound and
          penetrating Spiritual Science truly is. That dualism is part of ones
          personal life and development not part of the truth of your argument.

          There is nothing either material or immaterial that does not come under the
          heading of Spiritual Science. The fallacy does not lie with Spiritual
          Science and it becomes a nice excuse to dismiss Dr. Steiner from the deeper
          questions of ones life. This dualism is as Goethe has said, "Two soul alas,
          reside"  in your own breast.  Spiritual Science is the most solid anchor you
          can use for excursions in almost any direction.

          Many people back away from their own weak and feeble sense of being stunned
          by the marvels of our new age. They have the wonderful naive belief that
          they can say that all bets are off now that they have read a book or two.
          98% of the data scattered all over of the scientific map can not be
          integrated unless you have Spiritual Science as an anchor. The problem as I
          see it, is that most of our own students of Spiritual Science do not have a
          wide enough grasp to integrate nor have the span or depth that Steiner gave
          in all his work. Our job one is to integrate the scattered fragments of
          useless and obscure science data and organize it into what is lacking in a
          cohesive model of evolution that materialism thrives on.

          Aside from the quotes from more feeble minded Generals, we are deeply into
          X-file territory, only the mistake the X-files made was to pull the UFO
          card. All of the research that used to happen there was fairly interesting
          Spiritual Scientific integration. Chris Carter (producer and sometimes
          writer) can only go so far with the solving of mysteries, just as their
          ideal and mine, Rod Serling, could raise profound questions on Time,
          Biology, Dimensions and frontiers in science. These all exist in every
          department because Man is a vast Spiritual Being with connections to worlds
          as Steiner has described.

          I still have difficulty working with what Steiner said about how if people
          travelled to the Sun, this burning ball, they would find something totally
          different then they had expected. Indeed in some instances including the
          instances run by on this list, both sides would seem as mad as hatters to
          anyone who hasn't taken their esoteric swat team behind enemy lines and got
          landscape and landmark orientation.

          Because of our weakness in thinking we do not have to give up on Steiner
          rather go through imaginative comparitive studies and find out What Stephen
          King is thinking.  Aliens; Toby Hopper's first Poltergeist were all myths of
          Persephone and Demeter. Aliens heads later into genetic cloning and cosmic
          imaginations/abominations of the human form that are going on today. However
          Poltergeist one, did get under the skin of America that sweeps its relation
          to electro/magnetic forces under the table. In other words, under
          electro/magnetic fields there is a doorway that has been opened. Ask
          yourself about the famous Winchester house in Silicon Valley and really
          discover a strange related local and spiritual phenomena dealing with the
          thousand/million passageways of the internet. You have to have wide eyes but
          you also have to have clear vision.

          Taking an axe to the Tree of Spiritual Science while it is still young and
          growing in your little backyard because it blocks the view of the six lane
          highway is different then letting it grow and nourishing it until you can
          build a tree house in it and enjoy the wonderful shade and how it filters
          the noise from the road. We need to get larger not shrink Spiritual Science
          to fit our favorite factoids.

          _________________________________________________________________
          Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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        • DRStarman2001@aol.com
          ... empower people in a spiritual manner. Information relating to such things as UFOs are irrelevant to the empowering of anyone, unless they have been
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 4, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            lifemaster@... writes:
            >>>It seems to me that the purpose of this discussion list should be to
            empower

            people in a spiritual manner. Information relating to such things as UFOs

            are irrelevant to the empowering of anyone, unless they have been personally

            involved in experiencing them. Whether UFOs exist or from where they may

            have come seems to me to be a total waste of time to the subject of

            Anthroposophy.

            It would be far more profitable for us to discuss things which are likely to

            be within the personal experience of all members and to relate those

            experiences in a focused manner towards understanding the subject of

            Anthroposophy.<<<

            *******I have personal experience of UFOs and of elementals, and I'm sure
            many others here have, as well.
            But if you have other things that you think are better to discuss, go
            ahead and post them and see if others agree with you.


            >>>If Steiner did refer to UFOs and other supposedly physical phenomena
            outside

            the realm of normal human experience, then we could discuss that. But only

            if there exists a realistic possibility of the members gaining something

            spiritual from the exercise.<<

            *******"Spiritual" and "physical" as defined by whom?


            >>>Otherwise, just dump the subject. >>

            *******It seems to me orders are given to employees, not people on an open
            discussion list. Anthroposophy can be applied to the understanding of such
            diverse modern phenomena as UFOs, astrology, serial killers with no apparent
            conscience, and the earier age of puberty in children. If you see one of
            these in a subject line and are not interested in it, you don't have to read
            it. That seems a better way of dealing with your likes and dislikes than
            telling everyone else what they should say.

            Starman
          • Kees Kromme
            ... From: Bradford Riley To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 4, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:58 PM
              Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange part 10




              >From: "jeff auen" <pacbay@...>
              >Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange part 10
              >Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 22:53:35 -0700

              This statement in the argument:

              Anthroposophy can be used for some paranormal interpretations but it is
              inadequate and antiquated in dealing with phenomena now happening since the
              50's.

              Bradford writes;

              There seems to be a profound inadequate comprehension of how deep the
              research is that was launched by this 20th century initiate
               
              k@ it would be interesting to research what Steiner said about an Ahriman School (under!the earth, GA240, 20-7-1924) and what blach magic is in his opinion. he also speaks about the undernature fenomena, about mechanical spiders made by man with high intelligence and much more..
              perhaps he said more on several items then we know, while the words he used are a bit different from the vocabulair used by the ones who think in ufo-terms.
              gretings kees
            • Bradford Riley
              ... This statement in the argument: Anthroposophy can be used for some paranormal interpretations but it is inadequate and antiquated in dealing with phenomena
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 4, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                >From: "jeff auen" <pacbay@...>
                >Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange part 10
                >Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 22:53:35 -0700

                This statement in the argument:

                Anthroposophy can be used for some paranormal interpretations but it is
                inadequate and antiquated in dealing with phenomena now happening since the
                50's.

                Bradford writes;

                There seems to be a profound inadequate comprehension of how deep the
                research is that was launched by this 20th century initiate. There also
                appears to be a great division in ones mind between materialistic science
                and spiritual science. It is a functioning dualism that hasn't been able to
                integrate itself enough to surprise oneself in just how profound and
                penetrating Spiritual Science truly is. That dualism is part of ones
                personal life and development not part of the truth of your argument.

                There is nothing either material or immaterial that does not come under the
                heading of Spiritual Science. The fallacy does not lie with Spiritual
                Science and it becomes a nice excuse to dismiss Dr. Steiner from the deeper
                questions of ones life. This dualism is as Goethe has said, "Two soul alas,
                reside" in your own breast. Spiritual Science is the most solid anchor you
                can use for excursions in almost any direction.

                Many people back away from their own weak and feeble sense of being stunned
                by the marvels of our new age. They have the wonderful naive belief that
                they can say that all bets are off now that they have read a book or two.
                98% of the data scattered all over of the scientific map can not be
                integrated unless you have Spiritual Science as an anchor. The problem as I
                see it, is that most of our own students of Spiritual Science do not have a
                wide enough grasp to integrate nor have the span or depth that Steiner gave
                in all his work. Our job one is to integrate the scattered fragments of
                useless and obscure science data and organize it into what is lacking in a
                cohesive model of evolution that materialism thrives on.

                Aside from the quotes from more feeble minded Generals, we are deeply into
                X-file territory, only the mistake the X-files made was to pull the UFO
                card. All of the research that used to happen there was fairly interesting
                Spiritual Scientific integration. Chris Carter (producer and sometimes
                writer) can only go so far with the solving of mysteries, just as their
                ideal and mine, Rod Serling, could raise profound questions on Time,
                Biology, Dimensions and frontiers in science. These all exist in every
                department because Man is a vast Spiritual Being with connections to worlds
                as Steiner has described.

                I still have difficulty working with what Steiner said about how if people
                travelled to the Sun, this burning ball, they would find something totally
                different then they had expected. Indeed in some instances including the
                instances run by on this list, both sides would seem as mad as hatters to
                anyone who hasn't taken their esoteric swat team behind enemy lines and got
                landscape and landmark orientation.

                Because of our weakness in thinking we do not have to give up on Steiner
                rather go through imaginative comparitive studies and find out What Stephen
                King is thinking. Aliens; Toby Hopper's first Poltergeist were all myths of
                Persephone and Demeter. Aliens heads later into genetic cloning and cosmic
                imaginations/abominations of the human form that are going on today. However
                Poltergeist one, did get under the skin of America that sweeps its relation
                to electro/magnetic forces under the table. In other words, under
                electro/magnetic fields there is a doorway that has been opened. Ask
                yourself about the famous Winchester house in Silicon Valley and really
                discover a strange related local and spiritual phenomena dealing with the
                thousand/million passageways of the internet. You have to have wide eyes but
                you also have to have clear vision.

                Taking an axe to the Tree of Spiritual Science while it is still young and
                growing in your little backyard because it blocks the view of the six lane
                highway is different then letting it grow and nourishing it until you can
                build a tree house in it and enjoy the wonderful shade and how it filters
                the noise from the road. We need to get larger not shrink Spiritual Science
                to fit our favorite factoids.

                _________________________________________________________________
                Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
              • Bradford Riley
                ... Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:22:21 -0700 Jeff writes; He may have dug deeper than anyone else but somehow he brought back the gold shaped in a particular form
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 4, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  >From: "jeff auen" <pacbay@...>
                  >Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange part 10
                  Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:22:21 -0700

                  Jeff writes;

                  He may have dug deeper than anyone else but somehow he brought back the gold
                  shaped in a particular form that blurs the edges of esoteric science and
                  history. My overall impression is: can one be a "spiritual scientist"
                  without embracing AP.

                  Bradford writes;

                  Now Jeff, I have meet a 65% squeamish thinkers in AP. I think Spiritual
                  Science clears the soul easier than calling into question Steiner against
                  the social factors of what the AP has become. The social mess that exists in
                  some of the AP cannot shame the work of Steiner.

                  But, as to how to enter into X-files and Rod Serling and Aliens; as an
                  American you have had to have interest in current culture. Many of the
                  squeamish dislike and cannot digest the forces we are in, in culture today.
                  It makes them very nervous and ill. Electro magnetic America in Toby Hoppers
                  Poltergeist and the ancient overlays of the Demeter and Persephone myths as
                  well as the X-files probing in psychology and biology and including Stephen
                  King in The Green Mile and many of his other works... have clear concept
                  studies that bring us back to the forerunner of this research in the
                  twentieth century Harrison and Steiner and others of course. I have some of
                  Harrisons work and Steiner fully respected him, including the eighth sphere
                  research which enters into the real threat of the what the Matrix film
                  outlines. These are real fairy tales for the twentieth century. I mean that
                  in the best possible way.

                  Recently I asked another list what Rubidium an alloy of Gold had to do with
                  recent scientific experiments to fully stop Light. Light that travels at
                  186,000 miles a second, stopped cold. So they say. Except for the light
                  that Angels and Humans use in their thinking, which is faster. No answer
                  from the Squeam brigade?

                  I asked about the Blue Gene project where flesh, tissue is being folded and
                  from computer Pedaflops. Steiner talked of this future technology in Man as
                  Symphony when he spoke of the harmonics and vibratory fields of the cow.
                  Tesla could have offered the whole of technology at no cost were it not for
                  J.P. Morgan and stupid Edison.

                  Now we have something that is hijacking elmental forces out of the cosmic
                  system.. but to think it through is where we need Spiritual Science. Light
                  and Tissue is really Body and Blood, (This is my body, and this is my blood)
                  to have emancipated forces and elemental beings into current technology
                  enough to make human forms from decayed chemical ether light, through
                  electricity and magnetism and begin a new flesh code on earth and to
                  misunderstand and emancipate the force of conscience and Light from the
                  human being in our current understanding of Fission is to fall into the trap
                  of imagining that the Christ event is not a scientific fact as well as a
                  historical one.

                  Maybe you need to read The Angels Work in the Astral body and Man as
                  Symphony to get a glimpse of just how much Steiner could afford to say. You
                  forget that by just saying that you could get rid of rabbits by burning them
                  and sprinkling the ashes around a farm so that the astral body of the
                  rabbits or vermin would be repelled, could leap to the vision in Schindlers
                  List. Maybe Steiner and Harrison and many others couldn't spell the whole
                  thing out at times; but we are living it now.



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                • jeff auen
                  Bradford, I think it is also important to be exposed to all that our modern culture has to offer. We are told that RS read the daily paper and maybe went to
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 5, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Bradford,
                     
                    I think it is also important to be exposed to all  that our modern culture has to offer. We are told that RS read the daily paper and maybe went to films at times (?) just to keep a pulse on culture and trends. Our job of staying informed is much more demanding by sheer content and the spectrum of good and bad. 
                     
                     It is very hard for some people sensitive to spiritual life to interact with "borderland science research" without jumping to conclusions or judgments (evoking vague influences of Ahriman or Lucifer is like saying, its wet in the rain but why is it raining).
                     If  you mean "spiritual science" in its pure and broadest form (which is what I think RS meant not just AP) then we are in complete agreement. We do need this perspective and much more if we are to understand the strange manipulation of elemental forces and intentions of beings invisible to us - and this is only the beginning!  We would be very surprised in 50 to 100 years from now  or next time we come back to see what will be uncovered in etheric sciences. 
                     I also think there are great manipulating spirits inspiring the horror and sci fi genres. The shades are being drawn further and creating much fear and distortion of spiritual realities in the young. Psychedelics and diverse spiritual practices of the 60's and 70's may have been fragmenting but it at least gave us a glimpse of  spiritual and astral states. I cannot say the same of the virtual media and hard drug use now going on and the arts that produce horrific images of abuse or degradation.
                     
                    Jeff
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 6:05 PM
                    Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange part 10

                    >From: "jeff auen" <pacbay@...>
                    >Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Re: UFO/Astral Being Exchange part 10
                    Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:22:21 -0700

                    Jeff writes;

                    He may have dug deeper than anyone else but somehow he brought back the gold
                    shaped in a particular form that blurs the edges of esoteric science and
                    history. My overall impression is: can one be a "spiritual scientist"
                    without embracing AP.

                    Bradford writes;

                    Now Jeff, I have meet a 65% squeamish thinkers in AP. I think Spiritual
                    Science clears the soul easier than calling into question Steiner against
                    the social factors of what the AP has become. The social mess that exists in
                    some of the AP cannot shame the work of Steiner.

                    But, as to how to enter into X-files and Rod Serling and Aliens; as an
                    American you have had to have interest in current culture. Many of the
                    squeamish dislike and cannot digest the forces we are in, in culture today.
                    It makes them very nervous and ill. Electro magnetic America in Toby Hoppers
                    Poltergeist and the ancient overlays of the Demeter and Persephone myths as
                    well as the X-files probing in psychology and biology and including Stephen
                    King in The Green Mile and many of his other works... have clear concept
                    studies that bring us back to the forerunner of this research in the
                    twentieth century Harrison and Steiner and others of course. I have some of
                    Harrisons work and Steiner fully respected him, including the eighth sphere
                    research which enters into the real threat of the what the Matrix film
                    outlines. These are real fairy tales for the twentieth century. I mean that
                    in the best possible way.

                    Recently I asked another list what Rubidium an alloy of Gold had to do with
                    recent scientific experiments to fully stop Light.  Light that travels at
                    186,000 miles a second, stopped cold.  So they say. Except for the light
                    that Angels and Humans use in their thinking, which is faster.  No answer
                    from the Squeam brigade?

                    I asked about the Blue Gene project where flesh, tissue is being folded and
                    from computer Pedaflops. Steiner talked of this future technology in Man as
                    Symphony when he spoke of the harmonics and vibratory fields of the cow.
                    Tesla could have offered the whole of technology at no cost were it not for
                    J.P. Morgan and stupid Edison.

                    Now we have something that is hijacking elmental forces out of the cosmic
                    system.. but to think it through is where we need Spiritual Science.  Light
                    and Tissue is really Body and Blood, (This is my body, and this is my blood)
                    to have emancipated forces and elemental beings into current technology
                    enough to make human forms from decayed chemical ether light, through
                    electricity and magnetism and begin a new flesh code on earth and to
                    misunderstand and emancipate the force of conscience and Light from the
                    human being in our current understanding of Fission is to fall into the trap
                    of imagining that the Christ event is not a scientific fact as well as a
                    historical one.

                    Maybe you need to read The Angels Work in the Astral body and Man as
                    Symphony to get a glimpse of just how much Steiner could afford to say. You
                    forget that by just saying that you could get rid of rabbits by burning them
                    and sprinkling the ashes around a farm so that the astral body of the
                    rabbits or vermin would be repelled, could leap to the vision in Schindlers
                    List.  Maybe Steiner and Harrison and many others couldn't spell the whole
                    thing out at times; but we are living it now.



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