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RE: [anthroposophy] The Epic of Gilgamesh

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  • Mikko Nuuttila
    A sidenote: Sumer is much like the word Suomi (Finland in Finnish). It think it was precisely the Epic of Gilgamesh in Sumer that describes a bull standing in
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 2, 2008
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      A sidenote: Sumer is much like the word Suomi (Finland in Finnish). It think it was precisely the Epic of Gilgamesh in Sumer that describes a bull standing in water (as one of the origins of the world) like in the myth about Lemminkäinen in Kalevala there is similarly one, I remember. I once read a comparison about those bulls somewhere and the opinion expressed in the article was that it was the same myth. Moreover, wasn't Gilgamesh a giant, for Kaleva was one? Perhaps there is a distant echo of linguistic similarity in the words Kaleva and Gilgamesh as well.

      There are many hundreds of Sumerian words in the present day Hungarian language and Hungarian is related to Finnish.

      Mikko


      To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
      From: emeraldnina@...
      Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:50:01 +0000
      Subject: [anthroposophy] The Epic of Gilgamesh

      Hello Everyone,
      Yesterday I visited Brunnen von Christus and discovered new
      extraordinary article there. It is unknown to me if any scholar has
      reached this level of meaning and insight,with such precision and
      clarity. With abundant gratitude to BvC/Martha Keltz - Nina

      http://www.geocitie s.com/brunnenart icls/gilgamesh. html

      The Epic of Gilgamesh - He Who Saw the Deep
      By Martha Keltz

      "The cultures of the ancient Indian, Persian and Egyptian ages
      represent a descent from clairvoyant vision to the purely human vision
      of the Greek age. What begins with our own age, and must be attained
      in ever-increasing measure during the coming centuries and millennia,
      should be conceived as a reascent, a reattainment of forms of culture
      imbued with clairvoyance. The Egypto-Babylonian- Chaldean age is
      therefore to be regarded as the last stage of preparation for the
      essentially human culture of Greece." - Rudolf Steiner, Occult History.

      Cosmic and Earthly Origins, Language, Gods

      According to the Sumerian King List, the origins of Mesopotamia, in
      the geographical area of modern Iraq, date back millennia before the
      flood. Thus it appears that these prehistoric civilizations existed
      parallel with the later ages of the Atlantean epoch. The enormous
      amount of contemporary scholastic and scientific work regarding all
      aspects of Mesopotamian life, from mythology to recorded history,
      should likewise begin to cast light on the mysteries of Atlantis. As
      one delves deeply into studies of Sumerian, Akkadian, Chaldean and
      Babylonian histories, genuine understanding requires recognition of
      the Atlantean great epoch as fundamental, as vast panoramic
      background, as original source and bearer of all significant ancient
      cultures, of all spiritual wisdom. From the Atlantean epoch onwards,
      long into recorded history, water was the source of all wisdom, and
      union with the cosmos, with the spiritual world, was sought within the
      fresh, pure waters, within the sweet waters. Nowadays wisdom must be
      sought through the Spirit of the Earth.




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    • Stephen Hale
      Nina, The Epic of Gilgamesh is recognized to be the oldest of the national epics, tracing back to 2700 BC. It is discussed in two of Steiner s lecture
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 2, 2008
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        Nina,

        The Epic of Gilgamesh is recognized to be the oldest of the national
        epics, tracing back to 2700 BC. It is discussed in two of Steiner's
        lecture courses; the first being "Occult History" from December,
        1913, and then, "World History in the Light of Anthroposophy", from
        December, 1923, wherein the epic is given clearly anthroposophical
        links. This was the public lecture course held at the time of the
        Christmas Conference of 1923.

        It was a major expression of interest when I was on BVC, and I'm sure
        Martha made notes. Thanks for bringing it forth.

        Steve

        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <emeraldnina@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Everyone,
        > Yesterday I visited Brunnen von Christus and discovered new
        > extraordinary article there. It is unknown to me if any scholar has
        > reached this level of meaning and insight,with such precision and
        > clarity. With abundant gratitude to BvC/Martha Keltz - Nina
        >
        > http://www.geocities.com/brunnenarticls/gilgamesh.html
        >
        > The Epic of Gilgamesh - He Who Saw the Deep
        > By Martha Keltz
        >
        > "The cultures of the ancient Indian, Persian and Egyptian ages
        > represent a descent from clairvoyant vision to the purely human
        vision
        > of the Greek age. What begins with our own age, and must be attained
        > in ever-increasing measure during the coming centuries and
        millennia,
        > should be conceived as a reascent, a reattainment of forms of
        culture
        > imbued with clairvoyance. The Egypto-Babylonian-Chaldean age is
        > therefore to be regarded as the last stage of preparation for the
        > essentially human culture of Greece." - Rudolf Steiner, Occult
        History.
        >
        > Cosmic and Earthly Origins, Language, Gods
        >
        > According to the Sumerian King List, the origins of Mesopotamia, in
        > the geographical area of modern Iraq, date back millennia before the
        > flood. Thus it appears that these prehistoric civilizations existed
        > parallel with the later ages of the Atlantean epoch. The enormous
        > amount of contemporary scholastic and scientific work regarding all
        > aspects of Mesopotamian life, from mythology to recorded history,
        > should likewise begin to cast light on the mysteries of Atlantis. As
        > one delves deeply into studies of Sumerian, Akkadian, Chaldean and
        > Babylonian histories, genuine understanding requires recognition of
        > the Atlantean great epoch as fundamental, as vast panoramic
        > background, as original source and bearer of all significant ancient
        > cultures, of all spiritual wisdom. From the Atlantean epoch onwards,
        > long into recorded history, water was the source of all wisdom, and
        > union with the cosmos, with the spiritual world, was sought within
        the
        > fresh, pure waters, within the sweet waters. Nowadays wisdom must be
        > sought through the Spirit of the Earth.
        >
      • Stephen Hale
        Oops. December 1910. But Steiner actually referred to these two in September 1910, with the Gospel of Matthew lectures. Rather hidden, and more involving
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 2, 2008
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          Oops. December 1910. But Steiner actually referred to these two in
          September 1910, with the "Gospel of Matthew" lectures. Rather
          hidden, and more involving the Old Testament figures of Moses and
          Hermes, but still these two that would pass on down to Aristotle and
          Alexander, and Aquinas and Lamprecht. - Steve

          http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/OccultHist/OccHis_index.html

          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
          <sardisian01@...> wrote:
          >
          > Nina,
          >
          > The Epic of Gilgamesh is recognized to be the oldest of the
          national
          > epics, tracing back to 2700 BC. It is discussed in two of
          Steiner's
          > lecture courses; the first being "Occult History" from December,
          > 1913, and then, "World History in the Light of Anthroposophy", from
          > December, 1923, wherein the epic is given clearly anthroposophical
          > links. This was the public lecture course held at the time of the
          > Christmas Conference of 1923.
          >
          > It was a major expression of interest when I was on BVC, and I'm
          sure
          > Martha made notes. Thanks for bringing it forth.
          >
          > Steve
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <emeraldnina@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello Everyone,
          > > Yesterday I visited Brunnen von Christus and discovered new
          > > extraordinary article there. It is unknown to me if any scholar
          has
          > > reached this level of meaning and insight,with such precision and
          > > clarity. With abundant gratitude to BvC/Martha Keltz - Nina
          > >
          > > http://www.geocities.com/brunnenarticls/gilgamesh.html
          > >
          > > The Epic of Gilgamesh - He Who Saw the Deep
          > > By Martha Keltz
          > >
          > > "The cultures of the ancient Indian, Persian and Egyptian ages
          > > represent a descent from clairvoyant vision to the purely human
          > vision
          > > of the Greek age. What begins with our own age, and must be
          attained
          > > in ever-increasing measure during the coming centuries and
          > millennia,
          > > should be conceived as a reascent, a reattainment of forms of
          > culture
          > > imbued with clairvoyance. The Egypto-Babylonian-Chaldean age is
          > > therefore to be regarded as the last stage of preparation for the
          > > essentially human culture of Greece." - Rudolf Steiner, Occult
          > History.
          > >
          > > Cosmic and Earthly Origins, Language, Gods
          > >
          > > According to the Sumerian King List, the origins of Mesopotamia,
          in
          > > the geographical area of modern Iraq, date back millennia before
          the
          > > flood. Thus it appears that these prehistoric civilizations
          existed
          > > parallel with the later ages of the Atlantean epoch. The enormous
          > > amount of contemporary scholastic and scientific work regarding
          all
          > > aspects of Mesopotamian life, from mythology to recorded history,
          > > should likewise begin to cast light on the mysteries of Atlantis.
          As
          > > one delves deeply into studies of Sumerian, Akkadian, Chaldean and
          > > Babylonian histories, genuine understanding requires recognition
          of
          > > the Atlantean great epoch as fundamental, as vast panoramic
          > > background, as original source and bearer of all significant
          ancient
          > > cultures, of all spiritual wisdom. From the Atlantean epoch
          onwards,
          > > long into recorded history, water was the source of all wisdom,
          and
          > > union with the cosmos, with the spiritual world, was sought
          within
          > the
          > > fresh, pure waters, within the sweet waters. Nowadays wisdom must
          be
          > > sought through the Spirit of the Earth.
          > >
          >
        • Nina
          ... Dear Steve, Will look forward to reading some of the original sources Martha noted. Thank-you for making it easy for me by providing a link to get started!
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 3, 2008
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            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
            wrote:
            > Oops. December 1910. But Steiner actually referred to these two in
            > September 1910, with the "Gospel of Matthew" lectures. Rather
            > hidden, and more involving the Old Testament figures of Moses and
            > Hermes, but still these two that would pass on down to Aristotle and
            > Alexander, and Aquinas and Lamprecht. - Steve
            >
            > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/OccultHist/OccHis_index.html

            Dear Steve,
            Will look forward to reading some of the original sources Martha noted.
            Thank-you for making it easy for me by providing a link to get started!
            Every step taken to enrich others is valued.Glad you were able to
            participate in some of the early BvC discussions. I am grateful to
            everything that contributed to the final product. Eager to learn more
            spiritual science! Nina
          • Mikko Nuuttila
            Zecharia Sitchin has written many interesting paperbacks on Sumerian topics. I recommend his books. Sumer sounds like Suomi (Finland in Finnish). In a
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 3, 2008
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              Zecharia Sitchin has written many interesting paperbacks on Sumerian topics. I recommend his books.

              Sumer sounds like Suomi (Finland in Finnish). In a comparison of I think Gilgamesh and the myth of Lemminkäinen in Kalevala, the shaman Johannes Setälä describes how in both myths a bull standing in water is regarded as one of the origins of the world. Moreover, Gilgamesh has a faint linguistic echo of the word Kaleva, the giant the name Kalevala, the place of Kaleva giants, refers to. And wasn't Gilgamesh also a giant or just huge in size?

              The Hungarian language has several hundreds of Sumerian words in its vocabulary, and Hungarian is related to Finnish.

              Mikko


              To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
              From: emeraldnina@...
              Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:52:06 +0000
              Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: The Epic of Gilgamesh

              --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@ ...>
              wrote:
              > Oops. December 1910. But Steiner actually referred to these two in
              > September 1910, with the "Gospel of Matthew" lectures. Rather
              > hidden, and more involving the Old Testament figures of Moses and
              > Hermes, but still these two that would pass on down to Aristotle and
              > Alexander, and Aquinas and Lamprecht. - Steve
              >
              > http://wn.rsarchive .org/Lectures/ OccultHist/ OccHis_index. html

              Dear Steve,
              Will look forward to reading some of the original sources Martha noted.
              Thank-you for making it easy for me by providing a link to get started!
              Every step taken to enrich others is valued.Glad you were able to
              participate in some of the early BvC discussions. I am grateful to
              everything that contributed to the final product. Eager to learn more
              spiritual science! Nina




              Messenger beta löytää vaivatta kaikki tärkeimmät ystäväsi. Klikkaa!
            • Stephen Hale
              ... in ... and ... noted. ... started! ... more ... Nina, you would/will be a valued contributor to the BvC list, as it is very much involved with the spirit
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 3, 2008
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                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <emeraldnina@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
                > wrote:
                > > Oops. December 1910. But Steiner actually referred to these two
                in
                > > September 1910, with the "Gospel of Matthew" lectures. Rather
                > > hidden, and more involving the Old Testament figures of Moses and
                > > Hermes, but still these two that would pass on down to Aristotle
                and
                > > Alexander, and Aquinas and Lamprecht. - Steve
                > >
                > > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/OccultHist/OccHis_index.html
                >
                > Dear Steve,
                > Will look forward to reading some of the original sources Martha
                noted.
                > Thank-you for making it easy for me by providing a link to get
                started!
                > Every step taken to enrich others is valued.Glad you were able to
                > participate in some of the early BvC discussions. I am grateful to
                > everything that contributed to the final product. Eager to learn
                more
                > spiritual science! Nina

                Nina, you would/will be a valued contributor to the BvC list, as it
                is very much involved with the spirit of RS in its present position
                of instreaming inspirations from the astral world. That list was
                like receiving a fine fiery etheric force that surrounded my head
                like lapping tongues. I probably got further into the mystery of
                Gilgamesh there than anywhere else, as it really concerns the forming
                of the two major streams of time and space into the post-atlantean
                world. The Epic of Gilgamesh, the oldest of the national folk tales,
                is an assyrian legend, carried down on twelve tablets written in
                cuneiform script, and concerns the exploits of Gilgamesh, leader of
                Uruk, and Eabani (Enkidu), who is three-quarters a god to Gilgamesh
                being one half a god. This was when men were still more godlike than
                mere men, even as late as 2700 BC.

                The Epic of Gilgamesh is the tale carried on down through the ages of
                the exploits of Gilgamesh in seeking the truth of the immortality of
                the soul and wherein his search leads him to a place where an ancient
                mystery school existed. It is what he learns in this mystery school
                as a neophyte and eventual initiate that he brings back with him to
                Uruk, and passes on down as legend. It is not without significance
                that Abraham was born just 700 years later in the town just south of
                Uruk, in Ur of Chaldea.

                And Rudolf Steiner for very important reasons renews this story of
                the Gilgamesh epic in "World History in the Light of Anthroposophy."
                This is where the greater details are given concerning how these two,
                Gilgamesh and Eabani/Enkidu, are deemed to pass on down through the
                evolutionary ages of time and space at every significant juncture,
                even to the time of the Christ on earth.

                Steve
              • Stephen Hale
                ... It think it was precisely the Epic of Gilgamesh in Sumer that describes a bull standing in water (as one of the origins of the world) like in the myth
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 3, 2008
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                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Mikko Nuuttila <bellmeine@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > A sidenote: Sumer is much like the word Suomi (Finland in Finnish).
                  It think it was precisely the Epic of Gilgamesh in Sumer that
                  describes a bull standing in water (as one of the origins of the
                  world) like in the myth about Lemminkäinen in Kalevala there is
                  similarly one, I remember. I once read a comparison about those bulls
                  somewhere and the opinion expressed in the article was that it was
                  the same myth. Moreover, wasn't Gilgamesh a giant, for Kaleva was
                  one? Perhaps there is a distant echo of linguistic similarity in the
                  words Kaleva and Gilgamesh as well.
                  >
                  > There are many hundreds of Sumerian words in the present day
                  Hungarian language and Hungarian is related to Finnish.
                  >
                  > Mikko

                  The slaying of the Divine Bull of Heaven is a Gilgamesh story. Moses
                  was orphaned by his loving mother, who sent the infant boy in a reed
                  basket down the Nile river in order to save him from an earlier
                  massacre of the kind that Joseph would hear in a dream, telling him
                  to take his wife and young son into Egypt for a time. Moses was
                  found by the pharaoh's daughter, and adopted into the family of
                  Ramses I. Interestingly, he was found amidst the bullrushes, a form
                  of papyrus existing at the time when Egypt still had swamps. Joseph
                  would hear, in a dream again, that it was safe to return home to
                  Bethlehem, but, in a stroke of intuition, veered off in order to play
                  it safe, and went to the town of Nazareth to live. This is how the
                  two Jesus boys came to live as neighbors.

                  Steve
                • Nina
                  ... wrote: That list was like receiving a fine fiery etheric force that surrounded my head like lapping tongues. I probably got further into the mystery of
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 4, 2008
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                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                    wrote:
                    That list was like receiving a fine fiery etheric force that
                    surrounded my head like lapping tongues. I probably got further into
                    the mystery of Gilgamesh there than anywhere else, as it really
                    concerns the forming of the two major streams of time and space into
                    the post-atlantean world. The Epic of Gilgamesh, the oldest of the
                    national folk tales...

                    Dear Steve,
                    Can feel the impact from both of your descriptions - your summary and
                    your experience on BvC. You have the ability to bring central themes
                    into view with few words. This warms my heart and grounds my mind. Am
                    thankful also to Robert Mason for bringing BvC to our attention - Nina
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