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The Epic of Gilgamesh

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  • Nina
    Hello Everyone, Yesterday I visited Brunnen von Christus and discovered new extraordinary article there. It is unknown to me if any scholar has reached this
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 2, 2008
      Hello Everyone,
      Yesterday I visited Brunnen von Christus and discovered new
      extraordinary article there. It is unknown to me if any scholar has
      reached this level of meaning and insight,with such precision and
      clarity. With abundant gratitude to BvC/Martha Keltz - Nina

      http://www.geocities.com/brunnenarticls/gilgamesh.html

      The Epic of Gilgamesh - He Who Saw the Deep
      By Martha Keltz

      "The cultures of the ancient Indian, Persian and Egyptian ages
      represent a descent from clairvoyant vision to the purely human vision
      of the Greek age. What begins with our own age, and must be attained
      in ever-increasing measure during the coming centuries and millennia,
      should be conceived as a reascent, a reattainment of forms of culture
      imbued with clairvoyance. The Egypto-Babylonian-Chaldean age is
      therefore to be regarded as the last stage of preparation for the
      essentially human culture of Greece." - Rudolf Steiner, Occult History.

      Cosmic and Earthly Origins, Language, Gods

      According to the Sumerian King List, the origins of Mesopotamia, in
      the geographical area of modern Iraq, date back millennia before the
      flood. Thus it appears that these prehistoric civilizations existed
      parallel with the later ages of the Atlantean epoch. The enormous
      amount of contemporary scholastic and scientific work regarding all
      aspects of Mesopotamian life, from mythology to recorded history,
      should likewise begin to cast light on the mysteries of Atlantis. As
      one delves deeply into studies of Sumerian, Akkadian, Chaldean and
      Babylonian histories, genuine understanding requires recognition of
      the Atlantean great epoch as fundamental, as vast panoramic
      background, as original source and bearer of all significant ancient
      cultures, of all spiritual wisdom. From the Atlantean epoch onwards,
      long into recorded history, water was the source of all wisdom, and
      union with the cosmos, with the spiritual world, was sought within the
      fresh, pure waters, within the sweet waters. Nowadays wisdom must be
      sought through the Spirit of the Earth.
    • Mikko Nuuttila
      A sidenote: Sumer is much like the word Suomi (Finland in Finnish). It think it was precisely the Epic of Gilgamesh in Sumer that describes a bull standing in
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 2, 2008
        A sidenote: Sumer is much like the word Suomi (Finland in Finnish). It think it was precisely the Epic of Gilgamesh in Sumer that describes a bull standing in water (as one of the origins of the world) like in the myth about Lemminkäinen in Kalevala there is similarly one, I remember. I once read a comparison about those bulls somewhere and the opinion expressed in the article was that it was the same myth. Moreover, wasn't Gilgamesh a giant, for Kaleva was one? Perhaps there is a distant echo of linguistic similarity in the words Kaleva and Gilgamesh as well.

        There are many hundreds of Sumerian words in the present day Hungarian language and Hungarian is related to Finnish.

        Mikko


        To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
        From: emeraldnina@...
        Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:50:01 +0000
        Subject: [anthroposophy] The Epic of Gilgamesh

        Hello Everyone,
        Yesterday I visited Brunnen von Christus and discovered new
        extraordinary article there. It is unknown to me if any scholar has
        reached this level of meaning and insight,with such precision and
        clarity. With abundant gratitude to BvC/Martha Keltz - Nina

        http://www.geocitie s.com/brunnenart icls/gilgamesh. html

        The Epic of Gilgamesh - He Who Saw the Deep
        By Martha Keltz

        "The cultures of the ancient Indian, Persian and Egyptian ages
        represent a descent from clairvoyant vision to the purely human vision
        of the Greek age. What begins with our own age, and must be attained
        in ever-increasing measure during the coming centuries and millennia,
        should be conceived as a reascent, a reattainment of forms of culture
        imbued with clairvoyance. The Egypto-Babylonian- Chaldean age is
        therefore to be regarded as the last stage of preparation for the
        essentially human culture of Greece." - Rudolf Steiner, Occult History.

        Cosmic and Earthly Origins, Language, Gods

        According to the Sumerian King List, the origins of Mesopotamia, in
        the geographical area of modern Iraq, date back millennia before the
        flood. Thus it appears that these prehistoric civilizations existed
        parallel with the later ages of the Atlantean epoch. The enormous
        amount of contemporary scholastic and scientific work regarding all
        aspects of Mesopotamian life, from mythology to recorded history,
        should likewise begin to cast light on the mysteries of Atlantis. As
        one delves deeply into studies of Sumerian, Akkadian, Chaldean and
        Babylonian histories, genuine understanding requires recognition of
        the Atlantean great epoch as fundamental, as vast panoramic
        background, as original source and bearer of all significant ancient
        cultures, of all spiritual wisdom. From the Atlantean epoch onwards,
        long into recorded history, water was the source of all wisdom, and
        union with the cosmos, with the spiritual world, was sought within the
        fresh, pure waters, within the sweet waters. Nowadays wisdom must be
        sought through the Spirit of the Earth.




        Chattaa joukolla uudella Messenger betalla. Lisätietoja. Klikkaa!
      • Stephen Hale
        Nina, The Epic of Gilgamesh is recognized to be the oldest of the national epics, tracing back to 2700 BC. It is discussed in two of Steiner s lecture
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 2, 2008
          Nina,

          The Epic of Gilgamesh is recognized to be the oldest of the national
          epics, tracing back to 2700 BC. It is discussed in two of Steiner's
          lecture courses; the first being "Occult History" from December,
          1913, and then, "World History in the Light of Anthroposophy", from
          December, 1923, wherein the epic is given clearly anthroposophical
          links. This was the public lecture course held at the time of the
          Christmas Conference of 1923.

          It was a major expression of interest when I was on BVC, and I'm sure
          Martha made notes. Thanks for bringing it forth.

          Steve

          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <emeraldnina@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Everyone,
          > Yesterday I visited Brunnen von Christus and discovered new
          > extraordinary article there. It is unknown to me if any scholar has
          > reached this level of meaning and insight,with such precision and
          > clarity. With abundant gratitude to BvC/Martha Keltz - Nina
          >
          > http://www.geocities.com/brunnenarticls/gilgamesh.html
          >
          > The Epic of Gilgamesh - He Who Saw the Deep
          > By Martha Keltz
          >
          > "The cultures of the ancient Indian, Persian and Egyptian ages
          > represent a descent from clairvoyant vision to the purely human
          vision
          > of the Greek age. What begins with our own age, and must be attained
          > in ever-increasing measure during the coming centuries and
          millennia,
          > should be conceived as a reascent, a reattainment of forms of
          culture
          > imbued with clairvoyance. The Egypto-Babylonian-Chaldean age is
          > therefore to be regarded as the last stage of preparation for the
          > essentially human culture of Greece." - Rudolf Steiner, Occult
          History.
          >
          > Cosmic and Earthly Origins, Language, Gods
          >
          > According to the Sumerian King List, the origins of Mesopotamia, in
          > the geographical area of modern Iraq, date back millennia before the
          > flood. Thus it appears that these prehistoric civilizations existed
          > parallel with the later ages of the Atlantean epoch. The enormous
          > amount of contemporary scholastic and scientific work regarding all
          > aspects of Mesopotamian life, from mythology to recorded history,
          > should likewise begin to cast light on the mysteries of Atlantis. As
          > one delves deeply into studies of Sumerian, Akkadian, Chaldean and
          > Babylonian histories, genuine understanding requires recognition of
          > the Atlantean great epoch as fundamental, as vast panoramic
          > background, as original source and bearer of all significant ancient
          > cultures, of all spiritual wisdom. From the Atlantean epoch onwards,
          > long into recorded history, water was the source of all wisdom, and
          > union with the cosmos, with the spiritual world, was sought within
          the
          > fresh, pure waters, within the sweet waters. Nowadays wisdom must be
          > sought through the Spirit of the Earth.
          >
        • Stephen Hale
          Oops. December 1910. But Steiner actually referred to these two in September 1910, with the Gospel of Matthew lectures. Rather hidden, and more involving
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 2, 2008
            Oops. December 1910. But Steiner actually referred to these two in
            September 1910, with the "Gospel of Matthew" lectures. Rather
            hidden, and more involving the Old Testament figures of Moses and
            Hermes, but still these two that would pass on down to Aristotle and
            Alexander, and Aquinas and Lamprecht. - Steve

            http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/OccultHist/OccHis_index.html

            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
            <sardisian01@...> wrote:
            >
            > Nina,
            >
            > The Epic of Gilgamesh is recognized to be the oldest of the
            national
            > epics, tracing back to 2700 BC. It is discussed in two of
            Steiner's
            > lecture courses; the first being "Occult History" from December,
            > 1913, and then, "World History in the Light of Anthroposophy", from
            > December, 1923, wherein the epic is given clearly anthroposophical
            > links. This was the public lecture course held at the time of the
            > Christmas Conference of 1923.
            >
            > It was a major expression of interest when I was on BVC, and I'm
            sure
            > Martha made notes. Thanks for bringing it forth.
            >
            > Steve
            >
            > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <emeraldnina@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello Everyone,
            > > Yesterday I visited Brunnen von Christus and discovered new
            > > extraordinary article there. It is unknown to me if any scholar
            has
            > > reached this level of meaning and insight,with such precision and
            > > clarity. With abundant gratitude to BvC/Martha Keltz - Nina
            > >
            > > http://www.geocities.com/brunnenarticls/gilgamesh.html
            > >
            > > The Epic of Gilgamesh - He Who Saw the Deep
            > > By Martha Keltz
            > >
            > > "The cultures of the ancient Indian, Persian and Egyptian ages
            > > represent a descent from clairvoyant vision to the purely human
            > vision
            > > of the Greek age. What begins with our own age, and must be
            attained
            > > in ever-increasing measure during the coming centuries and
            > millennia,
            > > should be conceived as a reascent, a reattainment of forms of
            > culture
            > > imbued with clairvoyance. The Egypto-Babylonian-Chaldean age is
            > > therefore to be regarded as the last stage of preparation for the
            > > essentially human culture of Greece." - Rudolf Steiner, Occult
            > History.
            > >
            > > Cosmic and Earthly Origins, Language, Gods
            > >
            > > According to the Sumerian King List, the origins of Mesopotamia,
            in
            > > the geographical area of modern Iraq, date back millennia before
            the
            > > flood. Thus it appears that these prehistoric civilizations
            existed
            > > parallel with the later ages of the Atlantean epoch. The enormous
            > > amount of contemporary scholastic and scientific work regarding
            all
            > > aspects of Mesopotamian life, from mythology to recorded history,
            > > should likewise begin to cast light on the mysteries of Atlantis.
            As
            > > one delves deeply into studies of Sumerian, Akkadian, Chaldean and
            > > Babylonian histories, genuine understanding requires recognition
            of
            > > the Atlantean great epoch as fundamental, as vast panoramic
            > > background, as original source and bearer of all significant
            ancient
            > > cultures, of all spiritual wisdom. From the Atlantean epoch
            onwards,
            > > long into recorded history, water was the source of all wisdom,
            and
            > > union with the cosmos, with the spiritual world, was sought
            within
            > the
            > > fresh, pure waters, within the sweet waters. Nowadays wisdom must
            be
            > > sought through the Spirit of the Earth.
            > >
            >
          • Nina
            ... Dear Steve, Will look forward to reading some of the original sources Martha noted. Thank-you for making it easy for me by providing a link to get started!
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 3, 2008
              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
              wrote:
              > Oops. December 1910. But Steiner actually referred to these two in
              > September 1910, with the "Gospel of Matthew" lectures. Rather
              > hidden, and more involving the Old Testament figures of Moses and
              > Hermes, but still these two that would pass on down to Aristotle and
              > Alexander, and Aquinas and Lamprecht. - Steve
              >
              > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/OccultHist/OccHis_index.html

              Dear Steve,
              Will look forward to reading some of the original sources Martha noted.
              Thank-you for making it easy for me by providing a link to get started!
              Every step taken to enrich others is valued.Glad you were able to
              participate in some of the early BvC discussions. I am grateful to
              everything that contributed to the final product. Eager to learn more
              spiritual science! Nina
            • Mikko Nuuttila
              Zecharia Sitchin has written many interesting paperbacks on Sumerian topics. I recommend his books. Sumer sounds like Suomi (Finland in Finnish). In a
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 3, 2008
                Zecharia Sitchin has written many interesting paperbacks on Sumerian topics. I recommend his books.

                Sumer sounds like Suomi (Finland in Finnish). In a comparison of I think Gilgamesh and the myth of Lemminkäinen in Kalevala, the shaman Johannes Setälä describes how in both myths a bull standing in water is regarded as one of the origins of the world. Moreover, Gilgamesh has a faint linguistic echo of the word Kaleva, the giant the name Kalevala, the place of Kaleva giants, refers to. And wasn't Gilgamesh also a giant or just huge in size?

                The Hungarian language has several hundreds of Sumerian words in its vocabulary, and Hungarian is related to Finnish.

                Mikko


                To: anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com
                From: emeraldnina@...
                Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:52:06 +0000
                Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: The Epic of Gilgamesh

                --- In anthroposophy@ yahoogroups. com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@ ...>
                wrote:
                > Oops. December 1910. But Steiner actually referred to these two in
                > September 1910, with the "Gospel of Matthew" lectures. Rather
                > hidden, and more involving the Old Testament figures of Moses and
                > Hermes, but still these two that would pass on down to Aristotle and
                > Alexander, and Aquinas and Lamprecht. - Steve
                >
                > http://wn.rsarchive .org/Lectures/ OccultHist/ OccHis_index. html

                Dear Steve,
                Will look forward to reading some of the original sources Martha noted.
                Thank-you for making it easy for me by providing a link to get started!
                Every step taken to enrich others is valued.Glad you were able to
                participate in some of the early BvC discussions. I am grateful to
                everything that contributed to the final product. Eager to learn more
                spiritual science! Nina




                Messenger beta löytää vaivatta kaikki tärkeimmät ystäväsi. Klikkaa!
              • Stephen Hale
                ... in ... and ... noted. ... started! ... more ... Nina, you would/will be a valued contributor to the BvC list, as it is very much involved with the spirit
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 3, 2008
                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <emeraldnina@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Oops. December 1910. But Steiner actually referred to these two
                  in
                  > > September 1910, with the "Gospel of Matthew" lectures. Rather
                  > > hidden, and more involving the Old Testament figures of Moses and
                  > > Hermes, but still these two that would pass on down to Aristotle
                  and
                  > > Alexander, and Aquinas and Lamprecht. - Steve
                  > >
                  > > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/OccultHist/OccHis_index.html
                  >
                  > Dear Steve,
                  > Will look forward to reading some of the original sources Martha
                  noted.
                  > Thank-you for making it easy for me by providing a link to get
                  started!
                  > Every step taken to enrich others is valued.Glad you were able to
                  > participate in some of the early BvC discussions. I am grateful to
                  > everything that contributed to the final product. Eager to learn
                  more
                  > spiritual science! Nina

                  Nina, you would/will be a valued contributor to the BvC list, as it
                  is very much involved with the spirit of RS in its present position
                  of instreaming inspirations from the astral world. That list was
                  like receiving a fine fiery etheric force that surrounded my head
                  like lapping tongues. I probably got further into the mystery of
                  Gilgamesh there than anywhere else, as it really concerns the forming
                  of the two major streams of time and space into the post-atlantean
                  world. The Epic of Gilgamesh, the oldest of the national folk tales,
                  is an assyrian legend, carried down on twelve tablets written in
                  cuneiform script, and concerns the exploits of Gilgamesh, leader of
                  Uruk, and Eabani (Enkidu), who is three-quarters a god to Gilgamesh
                  being one half a god. This was when men were still more godlike than
                  mere men, even as late as 2700 BC.

                  The Epic of Gilgamesh is the tale carried on down through the ages of
                  the exploits of Gilgamesh in seeking the truth of the immortality of
                  the soul and wherein his search leads him to a place where an ancient
                  mystery school existed. It is what he learns in this mystery school
                  as a neophyte and eventual initiate that he brings back with him to
                  Uruk, and passes on down as legend. It is not without significance
                  that Abraham was born just 700 years later in the town just south of
                  Uruk, in Ur of Chaldea.

                  And Rudolf Steiner for very important reasons renews this story of
                  the Gilgamesh epic in "World History in the Light of Anthroposophy."
                  This is where the greater details are given concerning how these two,
                  Gilgamesh and Eabani/Enkidu, are deemed to pass on down through the
                  evolutionary ages of time and space at every significant juncture,
                  even to the time of the Christ on earth.

                  Steve
                • Stephen Hale
                  ... It think it was precisely the Epic of Gilgamesh in Sumer that describes a bull standing in water (as one of the origins of the world) like in the myth
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 3, 2008
                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Mikko Nuuttila <bellmeine@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > A sidenote: Sumer is much like the word Suomi (Finland in Finnish).
                    It think it was precisely the Epic of Gilgamesh in Sumer that
                    describes a bull standing in water (as one of the origins of the
                    world) like in the myth about Lemminkäinen in Kalevala there is
                    similarly one, I remember. I once read a comparison about those bulls
                    somewhere and the opinion expressed in the article was that it was
                    the same myth. Moreover, wasn't Gilgamesh a giant, for Kaleva was
                    one? Perhaps there is a distant echo of linguistic similarity in the
                    words Kaleva and Gilgamesh as well.
                    >
                    > There are many hundreds of Sumerian words in the present day
                    Hungarian language and Hungarian is related to Finnish.
                    >
                    > Mikko

                    The slaying of the Divine Bull of Heaven is a Gilgamesh story. Moses
                    was orphaned by his loving mother, who sent the infant boy in a reed
                    basket down the Nile river in order to save him from an earlier
                    massacre of the kind that Joseph would hear in a dream, telling him
                    to take his wife and young son into Egypt for a time. Moses was
                    found by the pharaoh's daughter, and adopted into the family of
                    Ramses I. Interestingly, he was found amidst the bullrushes, a form
                    of papyrus existing at the time when Egypt still had swamps. Joseph
                    would hear, in a dream again, that it was safe to return home to
                    Bethlehem, but, in a stroke of intuition, veered off in order to play
                    it safe, and went to the town of Nazareth to live. This is how the
                    two Jesus boys came to live as neighbors.

                    Steve
                  • Nina
                    ... wrote: That list was like receiving a fine fiery etheric force that surrounded my head like lapping tongues. I probably got further into the mystery of
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 4, 2008
                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                      wrote:
                      That list was like receiving a fine fiery etheric force that
                      surrounded my head like lapping tongues. I probably got further into
                      the mystery of Gilgamesh there than anywhere else, as it really
                      concerns the forming of the two major streams of time and space into
                      the post-atlantean world. The Epic of Gilgamesh, the oldest of the
                      national folk tales...

                      Dear Steve,
                      Can feel the impact from both of your descriptions - your summary and
                      your experience on BvC. You have the ability to bring central themes
                      into view with few words. This warms my heart and grounds my mind. Am
                      thankful also to Robert Mason for bringing BvC to our attention - Nina
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