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Re: The remains of human giants.

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  • carol
    S: « God, but your pompous judgment knows no bounds, and I refuse to use the catholic card. » Oh, so you ve assume for yourself supreme authority over the
    Message 1 of 57 , Dec 1, 2008

      S: « God, but your pompous judgment
      knows no bounds, and I refuse to use the catholic card. »

      Oh, so you've assume for yourself supreme authority over the subjective and objective, over distinguishing when «  courage to speak up and out on these matters. » has and can be used, and when compromized analytic approaches can be identified as having been ued,  or, when they can be safely used to reproach another's free, courageous expression and judgement ?

      S:« God, but your ... »

      How, in my latest post, have I shown to USE, as you call it, 'a catholic card' ?

      (Note:  YOU USED,  in the very sentence of your accusation,  a call to God - are you consciously using a twisted,  devious psychological tactic ?)

      From my perspective, I find this very suggestion an incitement to prejudicial perception over making an effort to see if there exists a connection between the R.S. citations previously brought forth by Jean-Marc,  and the cited statements which I listed as having  preceded your signature.

      Those cited statements being:

      « It takes courage to speak up and out on these matters. »

      « I'm interested in solutions to
      the repetitively nagging and reactive negativities. »

      « Spiritual science represents new knowledge; knowledge for the consciousness soul in the
      same way that natural science is knowledge for the intellectual soul. »

      Again,  from Message #16778


      "Our Consciousness Soul age --- precisely is the age of [materialisitic] Intellectualism: "Weil das Zeitalter der Bewußtseinsseele eben zugleich das Zeitalter der Intellektualität ist, (...)" [GA 186 - December 8, 1918]

      To imply that all those great scientific thinkers are more or less *stuck* in the "intellectual soul" stage of development, and that their works are merely the product or an "expression" of the "intellectual soul" --- is simply ludicrous! Incidentally, Rudolf Steiner knew perfectly well - of course! - that it was in Universities and Research Labs nowadays that *intense spiritual activity* manifested itself - not in religious or spiritual groups. Modern natural science, materialism, triumphant technology, and last but not least, the dead intellect, abstract theorizing, and hypernominalism, are not anachronistic in any way --- they are the true, threatening beyond alldoubt indeed! - but necessary hallmarks of our Consciousness Soul » age.

      Now, what does the little handful of *wannabe spiritual scientists* have to do with all of this? Well, those who wear blinkers will have a hard time acknowledging clearly that, despite its *subconscious* spiritual nature, its materialistic bias - andits obvious Ahrimanic/Satanic imprint! - modern natural science is, from a certain perspective, nothing but "elementary anthroposophy"...

      (Rudolf Steiner's own words - of course!) "

      Carol.

       

       


       

       


      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...> wrote:
      >
      > I'll tell you what you need to do now, Carol. Take some of your very
      > precious time and look over all I have said in regard to these and
      > many other aspects of spiritual science over the past few months or
      > so. Let's not be so prejudiced as to think that I was so utterly
      > trumped on these issues as if I was truly caught in the act of not
      > knowing something in what I brought forth in order to garner
      > responses such as those you cite. God, but your pompous judgment
      > knows no bounds, and I refuse to use the catholic card.
      >
      > If you can find an agenda or an ulterior motive of any kind, then
      > prove it. Bring it forth, and stop accusing. Try giving the other
      > side of the coin. Mine.
      >
      > Steve
      >
      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" organicethics@
      > wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > S: «We've talked off and on for four years, and you know my
      > > consistent position on spiritual science. It takes courage to speak
      > up
      > > and out on these matters.»
      > >
      > > Sometimes, it comes in the form of a strong will force behind a
      > > singularly centered ego... You're sure as heck right 'Steve', it
      > takes
      > > courage to represent Anthroposophy.
      > >
      > > «I'm interested in solutions to the repetitively nagging and
      > reactive
      > > negativities.»
      > >
      > > Oh, and that's Spiritual Science, is it? It sounds more to me like a
      > > rigid political stance, borrowing in on Spritual Science, or how
      > about,
      > > breaking in on Spiritual Science, to me.
      > >
      > > In real Anthroposophy, people are naturally led towards knowledge,
      > > through experience, of what Evil looks and feels like, at the soul
      > and
      > > spiritual level. People 'WORK' themselves through it, that is,
      > Evil.
      > > Even here, on this list, we sometimes share in our personal
      > observations
      > > of our individual assessments on Evil and stange as this may
      > sound, the
      > > impulse of Anthroposophy LIVES within these exchanges. It's somehow
      > not
      > > surprising that you 'Steve', haven't come to recognize this type of
      > > experience.
      > >
      > > May I bring you a few months back in time, to a message which Jean-
      > Marc
      > > so generously took time to research and post, in order to clarify
      > this
      > > very subject, with exactly YOU.
      > >
      > > Message 6805
      > >
      > > J-M « Okay, I'm translating from the French [GA 185 - October 25,
      > > 1918]:
      > >
      > > "Mankind of the fourth epoch saw the birth and the death of the
      > Christ
      > > because birth and death were at that time the most important thing.
      > > Nowadays the Christ is to appear in the etheric, a kind of Mystery
      > of
      > > Golgotha must be experienced again, and the importance of evil
      > will be
      > > similar to that of birth and death in the fourth epoch. (...) The
      > Christ
      > > appeared in the fourth epoch thanks to the existence of death. He
      > will
      > > reappear thanks to the real-life experience of evil."
      > >
      > > And, from the RS Archive [GA 185 - October 26, 1918]:
      > >
      > > "Even within the limits in which it is permissible to speak to-
      > day, we
      > > in the fifth Post-Atlantean period of civilisation, this period of
      > the
      > > Spiritual Soul [Bewusstseinsseele, sometimes translated also as
      > > Consciousness Soul.] in which we are living cannot refer without
      > deep
      > > emotion to those things which concern the mystery of evil. For in
      > so
      > > doing we touch upon one of the deepest secrets of this fifth
      > > Post-Atlantean period (...)
      > >
      > > Since the beginning of the fifth post-Atlantean period, evil
      > > inclinations — tendencies to evil — are subconsciously present
      > > in all men. Nay, the very entry of man into the fifth Post-
      > Atlantean
      > > age — which is the age of modern civilisation — consists in his
      > > receiving into himself the tendencies to evil." »
      > >
      > > S: « Spiritual science represents new knowledge; knowledge for the
      > > consciousness soul in the same way that natural science is
      > knowledge for
      > > the intellectual soul.»
      > >
      > > Spiritual Science represents the means by which human SOULs can
      > come to
      > > experience and view the world in a fuller sense, by way of the Soul
      > > acquiring and experimenting with Spiritual concepts- themselves
      > > carefully handed down to humanity through a genuine, 20th century,
      > > servant to the Higher Realms..
      > >
      > > (This scope of this phenomena took place way out of the reach of
      > the
      > > respective minds and spirits of both Gurdjief and Ouspenski; may I
      > > include Steve' into this, as well.)
      > >
      > > Funny, Jean-Marc also clarified the misconception which you have vis
      > > à vis natural science being outside of the conscious soul age.
      > >
      > > May I bring this back to your mind? Message #16778
      > >
      > > « It certainly is not without reason that Galileo Galilei, the great
      > > founding father of modern natural science, appeared on the scene at
      > the
      > > crack of dawn of the new Consciousness Soul age!...
      > >
      > > The truth is that Galileo, Isaac Newton, Descartes, F. Bacon,
      > Leibniz,
      > >
      > > J.C. Maxwell, Darwin, Haeckel, Max Planck, Niels Bohr, Einstein,
      > Robert
      > > Oppenheimer, and *countless* other great scientific minds! --- all
      > are
      > > true Representative Men of the culture inherent in the spiritual
      > > development of our Consciousness Soul age!
      > >
      > > Our Consciousness Soul age --- precisely is the age of
      > [materialisitic]
      > >
      > > Intellectualism: "Weil das Zeitalter der Bewußtseinsseele eben
      > > zugleich das Zeitalter der Intellektualität ist, (...)" [GA 186 -
      > > December 8, 1918]
      > >
      > > To imply that all those great scientific thinkers are more or less
      > > *stuck* in the "intellectual soul" stage of development, and that
      > their
      > > works are merely the product or an "expression" of the "intellectual
      > > soul" --- is simply ludicrous! Incidentally, Rudolf Steiner knew
      > > perfectly well - of course! - that it was in Universities and
      > Research
      > > Labs nowadays that *intense spiritual activity* manifested itself -
      > not
      > > in religious or spiritual groups. Modern natural science,
      > materialism,
      > > triumphant technology, and last but not least, the dead intellect,
      > > abstract theorizing, and hypernominalism, are not anachronistic in
      > any
      > > way --- they are the true, threatening beyond alldoubt indeed! - but
      > > necessary hallmarks of our Consciousness Soul » age.
      > >
      > > Now, what does the little handful of *wannabe spiritual scientists*
      > have
      > > to do with all of this? Well, those who wear blinkers will have a
      > hard
      > > time acknowledging clearly that, despite its *subconscious*
      > spiritual
      > > nature, its materialistic bias - andits obvious Ahrimanic/Satanic
      > > imprint! - modern natural science is, from a certain perspective,
      > > nothing but "elementary anthroposophy"...
      > >
      > > (Rudolf Steiner's own words - of course!)
      > >
      > > That's why "slipping into the Dragon's skin" --- is a preliminary
      > > tactical cognitive imperative! »
      > >
      > > As well as message #16834
      > >
      > > From the RS Archive [GA 322 - September 29, 1920]:
      > >
      > > "We must begin by acquiring the discipline that modern science can
      > teach
      > > us. We must school ourselves in this way and then, taking the strict
      > > methodology, the scientific discipline we have learned from modern
      > > natural science, transcend it, so that we use the same exacting
      > approach
      > > to rise into higher regions, thereby extending this methodology to
      > the
      > > investigation of entirely different realms as well. For this reason
      > I
      > > believe — and I want this to be expressly stated — that nobody
      > > can attain true knowledge of the spirit [zu einem wirklichen
      > > geisteswissenschaftlichen Erkennen = real spiritual scientific
      > knowledge
      > > (J-M)] who has not acquired scientific discipline, who has not
      > learned
      > > to investigate and think in the laboratories according to the modern
      > > scientific method. Those who pursue spiritual science
      > > [Geisteswissenschaft] have less cause to undervalue modern science
      > than
      > > anyone. On the contrary, they know how to value it at its full
      > worth."
      > >
      > > I'm translating from the German [GA 73 - October 15, 1918]:
      > >
      > > "I believe that only he who knows natural science and appreciates
      > its
      > > achievements should be allowed to speak of natural science (...)"
      > >
      > > "In the last centuries, Man was driven out of nature [aus der Natur
      > > herausgestellt] precisely because evolution confronted him with pure
      > > natural phenomena. The proper mission of natural science in the
      > course
      > > of human evolution is not to deliver absolute knowledge, as
      > > superstitious natural science still believes today --- but to set
      > Men
      > > free [daß sie die Menschen frei macht]. Only then does one
      > understand
      > > the mission of natural science in the course of evolution, when one
      > sees
      > > that nature brings Man up to freedom."
      > >
      > > Therefore, maybe only he who knows and really understands the
      > mission of
      > > natural science --- should be allowed *to whine about*
      > the "illusionary
      > > world view" that human progress and evolution necessarily demand...
      > >
      > > For the great spiritual mission of natural science [and modern
      > > technology] is indeed to infuse illusions and death into human
      > culture
      > > on a global scale...
      > >
      > > Illusions and death --- are the high price to pay for the fully
      > > conscious human spiritual individuality.
      > >
      > > And it doesn't take an "initiate" to realize that the cosmic mission
      > > ofnatural science - setting Men free by whatever means - is, in
      > reality,
      > > definitely a "Good Job" --- the Luciferic Whiners miss the whole
      > point,
      > > of course:
      > >
      > > To pave the way for --- (the Second Coming of) the Christ!!!
      > >
      > > Finally [GA 73 - November 7, 1917]:
      > >
      > > "(...) the sentient soul, the most dull, living almost entirely in
      > the
      > > subconscious; the intellectual soul which still develops without
      > > fullconsciousness, still having an instinctive nature; and finally
      > the
      > > consciousness soul, which experiences the Ego [das Ich] in full
      > > consciousness, which emancipates the Ego from the life of the body,
      > > where intelligence no longer appears instinctively but, emancipated,
      > > confronts things critically."
      > >
      > > And [GA 185 - October 18,1918]:
      > >
      > > "Until then [the 15th century], intelligence still had something
      > > instinctive, it was not yet influenced by the consciousness soul.
      > > Mankind did not yet have an independant thinking faculty - brought
      > only
      > > by the consciousness soul (...)"
      > >
      > > Well, the emancipated independent critical mind which is confronted
      > by
      > > anenigmatic dead natural environment - is the modern natural
      > scientist
      > > incarnate!
      > >
      > > Is your "natural science expresses the intellectual soul" ---
      > perhaps
      > > a*nominalistic* slip of the intellect, Steve? :-)
      > >
      > > Jean-Marc »
      > >
      > > So 'Steve', seeing as you showed no regard to all the excerpts
      > which
      > > Jean-Marc so generously brought to you, only a few months ago, I
      > am
      > > totally convinced that YOU are using this list for ulterior
      > reasons,
      > > than as a means to share in Anthropsophical discussion and learning.
      > >
      > > Carol.
      > >
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      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "val2160" wdenval@ wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Stephen.
      > > > >
      > > > > I want you to know that I when I go to church this morning I
      > will
      > > pray
      > > > > for you.-Val
      > > >
      > > > Thanks Val, if your prayer is a good omen, but if it is one of
      > > > contrition, than save it. We've talked off and on for four years,
      > and
      > > > you know my consistent position on spiritual science. It takes
      > courage
      > > > to speak up and out on these matters. I'm interested in solutions
      > to
      > > > the repetitively nagging and reactive negativities. Spiritual
      > science
      > > > represents new knowledge; knowledge for the consciousness soul in
      > the
      > > > same way that natural science is knowledge for the intellectual
      > soul.
      > > > We are in a battle for the cosmic intelligence, which is a phrase
      > that
      > > > will likely get worn out long before it is understood and taken
      > up in
      > > a
      > > > positive and enthusiastic manner.
      > > >
      > > > And please, continue to call me Steve.
      > > >
      > >
      >

    • holderlin66
      Colony Collapse ---- We are being subjected to a 100 year law, or 99 year law of three 33 s including the Great Depression of 1933 and as well that horrific
      Message 57 of 57 , Dec 9, 2008

        Colony Collapse  ----  We are being subjected to a 100 year law, or 99 year law of three 33's including the Great Depression of 1933 and as well that horrific event of Feb 27, 1933.  We are in the midst of an Occult Law upheaval that was indicated as well in Colony collapse studies we did on this list.  The entire global economy is in Colony collapse and becoming Ahrimanically reformed due to a vast occult law of three X's 3.  This law was noted as penetrating right down to the Sun Community of the way we handled Bees, all the way to the law of Education and results of educating humanity in a false, Ahrimanic and distorted manner would result in the corrupt monsters and whores of wall street becoming the children of Alan Greenspan, the children of Atlas Shrugged, the greedy, avarice ridden failure of humanity to check their impulses for the greater good as was thought should happen with freedom, however the infected and false educational system have created not only a Colony Collapse of the Bees, a Sun Beeings, but the Collapse of global Economy all on a 100 year occult law or 99 year law that Steiner talked of.

        The Fed created a falsifed Occult model, without Initiation Science or the Christ Event, but based on an Ahrimanic school of training and holding captive various etheric Lodge models of souls, capturing their etheric models and training Ahrimanized cosmic Initiation to insert themselves into Archangelic activities, and enter everywhere globally, with IMF, International Monetary Fund and Federal Reserve and Wall Street, all gaining and maintaining Ahrimanic Initiation centers into the Economic System.  And now the 99 year law has caught up to us, but we didn't instantly recognize the signs of Colony collapse and the indicators that Steiner drew.

        Try Again Anthros;   Try Again;

         "Despite its name, the Federal Reserve System is not owned by the
         federal government. It is actually a private company of bankers with 12
         branches or central banks that expand and contract our money supply as
         they have doing for nearly 100 years.
         
        And, even though the Fed is not part of the US government, the Fed's
         Board of seven governors is appointed by the president and confirmed by
         the Senate for 14-year terms."

        "Steiner...explained that the modern method of breeding queens (using
        the
        larvae of worker bees, a practice that had already been in use for about
        fifteen years) would have long-term detrimental effects, so grave that:

        "A century later all breeding of bees will cease if only artificially
        produced bees are used...."

        Steiner in another lecture made this grave prophecy:

        "Let the kind of teaching that prevails in our universities continue for
        another three decades, let social questions be treated as they are now
        for thirty years more, and you will have a devastated Europe
        ." He said
        this in December, 1919; of course the prophecy was fulfilled in less
        than thirty years."

        Bradford comments;

        Colony Collapse or was Steiner just one gloomy guy? Well to the
        trivial, newbie and basic inattentive shrunken intellectual soul,
        Steiner just must appear gloomy and making those statements to get some
        sort of negative attention. NOT! O seriously not.

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