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Re: [anthroposophy] Genoa: The Truth Must Get Out, by Stefano

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  • Bradford Riley
    ... Bradford writes: Dottie is right, there are at least three sides to this story. The west, middle and east are very lopsided or onesided in their pursuits.
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
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      Starman writes:

      >From: >I find it absolutely amazing that elitist middle-class Westerners
      >fly to
      >events all over 'protesting' the free trade the developing countries are
      >desperate for. No one from the Third World goes to these things trying to
      >stop the expansion of the free market--- only socialist propagandists who
      >claim to speak FOR them. What warped people.

      Bradford writes:

      Dottie is right, there are at least three sides to this story. The west,
      middle and east are very lopsided or onesided in their pursuits.

      So the Chinese were awarded the Olympic games. Free trade will now
      effectively change the criminal mentatlity of the Chinese? I dare say the
      manipulation and cowardly actions disguised as 'free trade' invites everyone
      to step up to the twenty-first century and become a consumer animal like we
      have become in the West. Markets are full of clever baseless cowards with no
      concern about the Individual in China or the third world.

      We have had ample opportunity to give good wages to Mexico and every other
      country, like Thailand. We have new wages and new business ventures around
      the world, some are sweat shops for the western markets, but others have
      attempted to knock the hell out of the little pockets of group souls that
      remain and guide them toward the English speaking Michael impulse after the
      German one had failed.

      But you may be right, there are other points of issue, I don't find the
      policies of the West in a threefold world anything but selfish an
      mercernary. But who am I to complain? Silly me, I expected that the West
      might provide moral spiritual leadership, fairness. Indeed at first glance
      human rights violators like Milosovech have at least been brought to some
      kind of justice. But what background machinations from the west is helping
      countries tear themselves apart? Who do you think picks up the mess and
      gains after everyone has been lied to and put in unmarked mass graves? But
      please, I have very distorted insights on U.S. policy and my golden image of
      freedom and free trade for everyone is somewhat tarnished? I have a lopsided
      view I fear. I guess the IMF and World Trade are stand-up guys, I know
      George Bush is at least.

      Bradford

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    • DRStarman2001@aol.com
      So the Chinese were awarded the Olympic games. Free trade will now effectively change the criminal mentatlity of the Chinese? I dare say the manipulation and
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
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        So the Chinese were awarded the Olympic games. Free trade will now
        effectively change the criminal mentatlity of the Chinese? I dare say the
        manipulation and cowardly actions disguised as 'free trade' invites everyone
        to step up to the twenty-first century and become a consumer animal like we
        have become in the West. Markets are full of clever baseless cowards with no
        concern about the Individual in China or the third world.

        We have had ample opportunity to give good wages to Mexico and every other
        country, like Thailand. We have new wages and new business ventures around
        the world, some are sweat shops for the western markets, but others have
        attempted to knock the hell out of the little pockets of group souls that
        remain and guide them toward the English speaking Michael impulse after the
        German one had failed.

        But you may be right, there are other points of issue, I don't find the
        policies of the West in a threefold world anything but selfish an
        mercernary. But who am I to complain? Silly me, I expected that the West
        might provide moral spiritual leadership, fairness. Indeed at first glance
        human rights violators like Milosovech have at least been brought to some
        kind of justice. But what background machinations from the west is helping
        countries tear themselves apart? Who do you think picks up the mess and
        gains after everyone has been lied to and put in unmarked mass graves? But
        please, I have very distorted insights on U.S. policy and my golden image of
        freedom and free trade for everyone is somewhat tarnished? I have a lopsided
        view I fear. I guess the IMF and World Trade are stand-up guys, I know
        George Bush is at least.

        *******Every word of criticism uttered banishes higher knowledge. Underestimation of what deserves respect exerts a withering effect on the growth of higher faculties. Finding the good in all things is one of the six basic exercises, Positiveness. From Knowledge of the Higher Worlds.
      • JadMcCurdy@aol.com
        Dear Starman, I m afraid your views expressed here are entirely inaccurate. Who is protesting? It is not just elite Western middle class people. Yes, a certain
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
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          Dear Starman,

          I'm afraid your views expressed here are entirely inaccurate.

          Who is protesting? It is not just elite Western middle class people. Yes, a
          certain portion of the movement fits this description, but there was also a
          large working class presence in Genoa, as well as a large presence of youth
          (who themselves are not middle class), and a large presence of the
          marginalized and the urban dispossessed (check out Naomi Klein's article at Z
          Net). Moreover, protesters came from all over Europe and North America and
          also came from South America. I cannot confirm that African and Asian
          representatives were present, but I'm sure they were to some degree.

          Moreover, if you go to Indymedia you will find that solidarity demonstrations
          have occured around the world, from Portland, Oregon, to Argentina. To be
          exact, solidarity demonstrations occured in the following locations:

          "Solidarity demonstrations against the G8 summit and the police violence
          that has characterized it, have been organized worldwide in Amsterdam,
          Athens, Barcelona, Bologna, Boston, Brussels, Buenos Aires, Finland,
          Greece, Helsinki, Istanbul, London, Los Angeles, Madison, WI, Manchester,
          Melbourne, Miami, Milan, Montreal, Naperville, IL, New York, Oslo, Paris,
          Peru, Philadelphia, Portland, Rome, Salzburg, S�o Paulo, San
          Francisco/Berkeley, Stockholm, Sydney, Toronto, Turkey, Urbana, IL,
          Vancouver, Vienna, and Washington DC and in many other cities in Austria,
          Canada, Germany, Italy, UK, USA, and elsewhere." (Souce, Indymedia)

          As for the idea that the Third World is despirate for a piece of the free
          trade pie? This is also a gross distortion of reality. Yes, elites in the
          Third World want to enter into free trade agreements like the FTAA, but who
          speaks for the people? What is it that they want? Do you think Korean
          workers, who regularly battle police in the streets, want a piece of pie?
          Third World countries the world over attempted in the post-colonial period to
          assert national identities and many to form valid social democratic systems.
          Many even attempted to initiate real socialism, which is not contrary to the
          destiny of the freedom of the individual. Take Nicargua, for example.

          All of this is not to say that I fully agree with the approach the
          anti-corporate led globalization is taking. I feel protest is grossly
          outweighing efforts to build the movement independent of governments, which
          is the only way we will move toward a better world and threefolding. I
          certainly do not sympathize with the violent factions like the Black Bloc.
          However, the point of my posting RE: Genoa was not to support violent
          protest, but to reveal what the mass media and governments are hiding from
          the public.

          Besides, I think it would be a travesty for an Anthroposophical group to pass
          over a world event as significant and disturbing as Genoa without at least
          attempting to share our views, knowledge, and spiritual insights.

          Sincerely,

          John McCurdy
        • Guillermo Romero Ibarrola
          ... My 2 cents (of a Mexican Peso, of course): For those of you interested and able to understand spanish, there is an excelent cartoon on the Genova events
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
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            >Besides, I think it would be a travesty for an Anthroposophical group to pass
            >over a world event as significant and disturbing as Genoa without at least
            >attempting to share our views, knowledge, and spiritual insights.


            My 2 cents (of a Mexican Peso, of course):

            For those of you interested and able to understand spanish, there is an
            excelent cartoon on the Genova events from one of Mexico's best journalists
            at http://www.reforma.com/Carton/calderon/htm/20010722.htm. There Calderon
            puts two pictures side by side, both famous: the one of the cornered Land
            Rover been attacked by an anonimuos crowd (and the also anonimous armed arm
            killing one of the crowd) and the other, the one of the single young men
            stoping the tank in Bejin 1989, where Calderon notes that the dignity of
            the manifestator induces that the person controling the tank find his own
            human dignity and decides to stop the machine.

            I have found that a middle path is normally the best alternative, and the
            one that eventually finds its way and takes place. Changes in the world
            are gradual, we already face global markets as opposed to local markets,
            (and in truth, we have always been global, and have no other alternative
            than being Global, from many perspectives: economic, environmental,
            spiritual). (ie. "Global Village, Spaceship Earth", Gai, etc.)

            The real problem is not globalization, but individual or group agendas that
            try to derive benefits and priviledges from others. (economic, social,
            natural resources, or just pretending to be the holders of Truth for a
            while). That is the root problem for all human conflicts and the only
            solution I forsee is the "unity of conciousness", which I am most certain
            will come as a result of extremes finding a middle temporary solution,
            until the extremes become gradually less extreme, and the middle will be
            the common ground.

            In Anthroposophic terms I see the globalophobics acting on a luciferic
            impulse and the "8 plus Russia" acting on a arihmanic impulse, the solution
            would be in the middle again, in the Christ impulse, and that is an impulse
            of "unconditional Love", of unity, isn't?.

            I see such conflicts as a learning experience for us Humans, a part of the
            game we call life, which is nothing more than a Game of learning. No one
            at the extremes is right, but there is a purpose for all.

            Greetings

            (All of the above of course IMHO)

            Guillermo
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