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Re: [anthroposophy] Genoa: The Truth Must Get Out, by Stefano

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  • Richard Distasi
    Joann, Thanks for all of the sites that you listed. I went to all of them and read some of them. It is imperative that all sides are heard and not simply what
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
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      Joann,
      Thanks for all of the sites that you listed. I went to all of them and read
      some of them. It is imperative that all sides are heard and not simply what
      the giants in the news media report.

      Speaking of giants, isn't that what the Book of Revelation speaks of when it
      mentions that battle of Gog verses Magog. It is the battle of centralized
      superpower structures in all fields verses the free individual and that the
      continued development of the free individual is the true and eventual course
      in human consciousness.

      Rick Distasi

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jo Ann Schwartz <sr_joanna@...>
      To: <anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 5:57 PM
      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Genoa: The Truth Must Get Out, by Stefano


      >
      > --- Rick asked:
      > > This post is implying that the violence is
      > > orchestrated by certain factions and that the violence is designed to
      > > discredit those who voice differences and opposition to global corporate
      > > policies.
      > >
      > > This post raises serious questions. Does anyone have anything else to
      > > add ?
      >
      >
      > Hi Rick,
      >
      > Here are a few URLs for 'alternative' news of Genoa:
      >
      > Truncheons Rained Down on Me in the Battle of Genoa
      > (extreme brutality against journalists and bystanders is now the norm)
      >
      http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/07/22/stifgneur02005.html
      >
      > accounts of the police attack on the media center and protest organizers
      > (no sympathy for the guy who got shot, but that's no excuse)
      > http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=102064
      > http://italy.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=5539
      >
      > a prominent pacifist's diary from Genoa
      > http://starhawk.org/activism/genoa1.html
      > http://starhawk.org/activism/genoa2.html
      >
      > propagandists caricature the views of globalization protesters with
      > impunity
      > (why is this utterly derivative "commentary" treated as news?)
      > http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/me/20010720.me.04.rmm
      >
      > here is the only column I've seen supporting them
      > (but why get vapid poetry from communists, when you can get the real
      > leaders?)
      > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/20/opinion/20HARDT.html
      >
      >
      > [Thanks to Phil Agre of the Red Rock Eater News Service for collecting
      > these.]
      >
      >
      > Cheers,
      > JoAnn
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • DRStarman2001@aol.com
      I find it absolutely amazing that elitist middle-class Westerners fly to events all over protesting the free trade the developing countries are desperate
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
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        I find it absolutely amazing that elitist middle-class Westerners fly to
        events all over 'protesting' the free trade the developing countries are
        desperate for. No one from the Third World goes to these things trying to
        stop the expansion of the free market--- only socialist propagandists who
        claim to speak FOR them. What warped people.
      • Bradford Riley
        ... Bradford writes: Dottie is right, there are at least three sides to this story. The west, middle and east are very lopsided or onesided in their pursuits.
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
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          Starman writes:

          >From: >I find it absolutely amazing that elitist middle-class Westerners
          >fly to
          >events all over 'protesting' the free trade the developing countries are
          >desperate for. No one from the Third World goes to these things trying to
          >stop the expansion of the free market--- only socialist propagandists who
          >claim to speak FOR them. What warped people.

          Bradford writes:

          Dottie is right, there are at least three sides to this story. The west,
          middle and east are very lopsided or onesided in their pursuits.

          So the Chinese were awarded the Olympic games. Free trade will now
          effectively change the criminal mentatlity of the Chinese? I dare say the
          manipulation and cowardly actions disguised as 'free trade' invites everyone
          to step up to the twenty-first century and become a consumer animal like we
          have become in the West. Markets are full of clever baseless cowards with no
          concern about the Individual in China or the third world.

          We have had ample opportunity to give good wages to Mexico and every other
          country, like Thailand. We have new wages and new business ventures around
          the world, some are sweat shops for the western markets, but others have
          attempted to knock the hell out of the little pockets of group souls that
          remain and guide them toward the English speaking Michael impulse after the
          German one had failed.

          But you may be right, there are other points of issue, I don't find the
          policies of the West in a threefold world anything but selfish an
          mercernary. But who am I to complain? Silly me, I expected that the West
          might provide moral spiritual leadership, fairness. Indeed at first glance
          human rights violators like Milosovech have at least been brought to some
          kind of justice. But what background machinations from the west is helping
          countries tear themselves apart? Who do you think picks up the mess and
          gains after everyone has been lied to and put in unmarked mass graves? But
          please, I have very distorted insights on U.S. policy and my golden image of
          freedom and free trade for everyone is somewhat tarnished? I have a lopsided
          view I fear. I guess the IMF and World Trade are stand-up guys, I know
          George Bush is at least.

          Bradford

          _________________________________________________________________
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        • DRStarman2001@aol.com
          So the Chinese were awarded the Olympic games. Free trade will now effectively change the criminal mentatlity of the Chinese? I dare say the manipulation and
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
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            So the Chinese were awarded the Olympic games. Free trade will now
            effectively change the criminal mentatlity of the Chinese? I dare say the
            manipulation and cowardly actions disguised as 'free trade' invites everyone
            to step up to the twenty-first century and become a consumer animal like we
            have become in the West. Markets are full of clever baseless cowards with no
            concern about the Individual in China or the third world.

            We have had ample opportunity to give good wages to Mexico and every other
            country, like Thailand. We have new wages and new business ventures around
            the world, some are sweat shops for the western markets, but others have
            attempted to knock the hell out of the little pockets of group souls that
            remain and guide them toward the English speaking Michael impulse after the
            German one had failed.

            But you may be right, there are other points of issue, I don't find the
            policies of the West in a threefold world anything but selfish an
            mercernary. But who am I to complain? Silly me, I expected that the West
            might provide moral spiritual leadership, fairness. Indeed at first glance
            human rights violators like Milosovech have at least been brought to some
            kind of justice. But what background machinations from the west is helping
            countries tear themselves apart? Who do you think picks up the mess and
            gains after everyone has been lied to and put in unmarked mass graves? But
            please, I have very distorted insights on U.S. policy and my golden image of
            freedom and free trade for everyone is somewhat tarnished? I have a lopsided
            view I fear. I guess the IMF and World Trade are stand-up guys, I know
            George Bush is at least.

            *******Every word of criticism uttered banishes higher knowledge. Underestimation of what deserves respect exerts a withering effect on the growth of higher faculties. Finding the good in all things is one of the six basic exercises, Positiveness. From Knowledge of the Higher Worlds.
          • JadMcCurdy@aol.com
            Dear Starman, I m afraid your views expressed here are entirely inaccurate. Who is protesting? It is not just elite Western middle class people. Yes, a certain
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
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              Dear Starman,

              I'm afraid your views expressed here are entirely inaccurate.

              Who is protesting? It is not just elite Western middle class people. Yes, a
              certain portion of the movement fits this description, but there was also a
              large working class presence in Genoa, as well as a large presence of youth
              (who themselves are not middle class), and a large presence of the
              marginalized and the urban dispossessed (check out Naomi Klein's article at Z
              Net). Moreover, protesters came from all over Europe and North America and
              also came from South America. I cannot confirm that African and Asian
              representatives were present, but I'm sure they were to some degree.

              Moreover, if you go to Indymedia you will find that solidarity demonstrations
              have occured around the world, from Portland, Oregon, to Argentina. To be
              exact, solidarity demonstrations occured in the following locations:

              "Solidarity demonstrations against the G8 summit and the police violence
              that has characterized it, have been organized worldwide in Amsterdam,
              Athens, Barcelona, Bologna, Boston, Brussels, Buenos Aires, Finland,
              Greece, Helsinki, Istanbul, London, Los Angeles, Madison, WI, Manchester,
              Melbourne, Miami, Milan, Montreal, Naperville, IL, New York, Oslo, Paris,
              Peru, Philadelphia, Portland, Rome, Salzburg, S�o Paulo, San
              Francisco/Berkeley, Stockholm, Sydney, Toronto, Turkey, Urbana, IL,
              Vancouver, Vienna, and Washington DC and in many other cities in Austria,
              Canada, Germany, Italy, UK, USA, and elsewhere." (Souce, Indymedia)

              As for the idea that the Third World is despirate for a piece of the free
              trade pie? This is also a gross distortion of reality. Yes, elites in the
              Third World want to enter into free trade agreements like the FTAA, but who
              speaks for the people? What is it that they want? Do you think Korean
              workers, who regularly battle police in the streets, want a piece of pie?
              Third World countries the world over attempted in the post-colonial period to
              assert national identities and many to form valid social democratic systems.
              Many even attempted to initiate real socialism, which is not contrary to the
              destiny of the freedom of the individual. Take Nicargua, for example.

              All of this is not to say that I fully agree with the approach the
              anti-corporate led globalization is taking. I feel protest is grossly
              outweighing efforts to build the movement independent of governments, which
              is the only way we will move toward a better world and threefolding. I
              certainly do not sympathize with the violent factions like the Black Bloc.
              However, the point of my posting RE: Genoa was not to support violent
              protest, but to reveal what the mass media and governments are hiding from
              the public.

              Besides, I think it would be a travesty for an Anthroposophical group to pass
              over a world event as significant and disturbing as Genoa without at least
              attempting to share our views, knowledge, and spiritual insights.

              Sincerely,

              John McCurdy
            • Guillermo Romero Ibarrola
              ... My 2 cents (of a Mexican Peso, of course): For those of you interested and able to understand spanish, there is an excelent cartoon on the Genova events
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
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                >Besides, I think it would be a travesty for an Anthroposophical group to pass
                >over a world event as significant and disturbing as Genoa without at least
                >attempting to share our views, knowledge, and spiritual insights.


                My 2 cents (of a Mexican Peso, of course):

                For those of you interested and able to understand spanish, there is an
                excelent cartoon on the Genova events from one of Mexico's best journalists
                at http://www.reforma.com/Carton/calderon/htm/20010722.htm. There Calderon
                puts two pictures side by side, both famous: the one of the cornered Land
                Rover been attacked by an anonimuos crowd (and the also anonimous armed arm
                killing one of the crowd) and the other, the one of the single young men
                stoping the tank in Bejin 1989, where Calderon notes that the dignity of
                the manifestator induces that the person controling the tank find his own
                human dignity and decides to stop the machine.

                I have found that a middle path is normally the best alternative, and the
                one that eventually finds its way and takes place. Changes in the world
                are gradual, we already face global markets as opposed to local markets,
                (and in truth, we have always been global, and have no other alternative
                than being Global, from many perspectives: economic, environmental,
                spiritual). (ie. "Global Village, Spaceship Earth", Gai, etc.)

                The real problem is not globalization, but individual or group agendas that
                try to derive benefits and priviledges from others. (economic, social,
                natural resources, or just pretending to be the holders of Truth for a
                while). That is the root problem for all human conflicts and the only
                solution I forsee is the "unity of conciousness", which I am most certain
                will come as a result of extremes finding a middle temporary solution,
                until the extremes become gradually less extreme, and the middle will be
                the common ground.

                In Anthroposophic terms I see the globalophobics acting on a luciferic
                impulse and the "8 plus Russia" acting on a arihmanic impulse, the solution
                would be in the middle again, in the Christ impulse, and that is an impulse
                of "unconditional Love", of unity, isn't?.

                I see such conflicts as a learning experience for us Humans, a part of the
                game we call life, which is nothing more than a Game of learning. No one
                at the extremes is right, but there is a purpose for all.

                Greetings

                (All of the above of course IMHO)

                Guillermo
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