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Re: [anthroposophy] Genoa: The Truth Must Get Out, by Stefano

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  • Jo Ann Schwartz
    ... Hi Rick, Here are a few URLs for alternative news of Genoa: Truncheons Rained Down on Me in the Battle of Genoa (extreme brutality against journalists
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
      --- Rick asked:
      > This post is implying that the violence is
      > orchestrated by certain factions and that the violence is designed to
      > discredit those who voice differences and opposition to global corporate
      > policies.
      >
      > This post raises serious questions. Does anyone have anything else to
      > add ?


      Hi Rick,

      Here are a few URLs for 'alternative' news of Genoa:

      Truncheons Rained Down on Me in the Battle of Genoa
      (extreme brutality against journalists and bystanders is now the norm)
      http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/07/22/stifgneur02005.html

      accounts of the police attack on the media center and protest organizers
      (no sympathy for the guy who got shot, but that's no excuse)
      http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=102064
      http://italy.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=5539

      a prominent pacifist's diary from Genoa
      http://starhawk.org/activism/genoa1.html
      http://starhawk.org/activism/genoa2.html

      propagandists caricature the views of globalization protesters with
      impunity
      (why is this utterly derivative "commentary" treated as news?)
      http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/me/20010720.me.04.rmm

      here is the only column I've seen supporting them
      (but why get vapid poetry from communists, when you can get the real
      leaders?)
      http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/20/opinion/20HARDT.html


      [Thanks to Phil Agre of the Red Rock Eater News Service for collecting
      these.]


      Cheers,
      JoAnn




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    • Richard Distasi
      Joann, Thanks for all of the sites that you listed. I went to all of them and read some of them. It is imperative that all sides are heard and not simply what
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
        Joann,
        Thanks for all of the sites that you listed. I went to all of them and read
        some of them. It is imperative that all sides are heard and not simply what
        the giants in the news media report.

        Speaking of giants, isn't that what the Book of Revelation speaks of when it
        mentions that battle of Gog verses Magog. It is the battle of centralized
        superpower structures in all fields verses the free individual and that the
        continued development of the free individual is the true and eventual course
        in human consciousness.

        Rick Distasi

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Jo Ann Schwartz <sr_joanna@...>
        To: <anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 5:57 PM
        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Genoa: The Truth Must Get Out, by Stefano


        >
        > --- Rick asked:
        > > This post is implying that the violence is
        > > orchestrated by certain factions and that the violence is designed to
        > > discredit those who voice differences and opposition to global corporate
        > > policies.
        > >
        > > This post raises serious questions. Does anyone have anything else to
        > > add ?
        >
        >
        > Hi Rick,
        >
        > Here are a few URLs for 'alternative' news of Genoa:
        >
        > Truncheons Rained Down on Me in the Battle of Genoa
        > (extreme brutality against journalists and bystanders is now the norm)
        >
        http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/07/22/stifgneur02005.html
        >
        > accounts of the police attack on the media center and protest organizers
        > (no sympathy for the guy who got shot, but that's no excuse)
        > http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=102064
        > http://italy.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=5539
        >
        > a prominent pacifist's diary from Genoa
        > http://starhawk.org/activism/genoa1.html
        > http://starhawk.org/activism/genoa2.html
        >
        > propagandists caricature the views of globalization protesters with
        > impunity
        > (why is this utterly derivative "commentary" treated as news?)
        > http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/me/20010720.me.04.rmm
        >
        > here is the only column I've seen supporting them
        > (but why get vapid poetry from communists, when you can get the real
        > leaders?)
        > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/20/opinion/20HARDT.html
        >
        >
        > [Thanks to Phil Agre of the Red Rock Eater News Service for collecting
        > these.]
        >
        >
        > Cheers,
        > JoAnn
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
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        > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
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        >
        >
      • DRStarman2001@aol.com
        I find it absolutely amazing that elitist middle-class Westerners fly to events all over protesting the free trade the developing countries are desperate
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
          I find it absolutely amazing that elitist middle-class Westerners fly to
          events all over 'protesting' the free trade the developing countries are
          desperate for. No one from the Third World goes to these things trying to
          stop the expansion of the free market--- only socialist propagandists who
          claim to speak FOR them. What warped people.
        • Bradford Riley
          ... Bradford writes: Dottie is right, there are at least three sides to this story. The west, middle and east are very lopsided or onesided in their pursuits.
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
            Starman writes:

            >From: >I find it absolutely amazing that elitist middle-class Westerners
            >fly to
            >events all over 'protesting' the free trade the developing countries are
            >desperate for. No one from the Third World goes to these things trying to
            >stop the expansion of the free market--- only socialist propagandists who
            >claim to speak FOR them. What warped people.

            Bradford writes:

            Dottie is right, there are at least three sides to this story. The west,
            middle and east are very lopsided or onesided in their pursuits.

            So the Chinese were awarded the Olympic games. Free trade will now
            effectively change the criminal mentatlity of the Chinese? I dare say the
            manipulation and cowardly actions disguised as 'free trade' invites everyone
            to step up to the twenty-first century and become a consumer animal like we
            have become in the West. Markets are full of clever baseless cowards with no
            concern about the Individual in China or the third world.

            We have had ample opportunity to give good wages to Mexico and every other
            country, like Thailand. We have new wages and new business ventures around
            the world, some are sweat shops for the western markets, but others have
            attempted to knock the hell out of the little pockets of group souls that
            remain and guide them toward the English speaking Michael impulse after the
            German one had failed.

            But you may be right, there are other points of issue, I don't find the
            policies of the West in a threefold world anything but selfish an
            mercernary. But who am I to complain? Silly me, I expected that the West
            might provide moral spiritual leadership, fairness. Indeed at first glance
            human rights violators like Milosovech have at least been brought to some
            kind of justice. But what background machinations from the west is helping
            countries tear themselves apart? Who do you think picks up the mess and
            gains after everyone has been lied to and put in unmarked mass graves? But
            please, I have very distorted insights on U.S. policy and my golden image of
            freedom and free trade for everyone is somewhat tarnished? I have a lopsided
            view I fear. I guess the IMF and World Trade are stand-up guys, I know
            George Bush is at least.

            Bradford

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          • DRStarman2001@aol.com
            So the Chinese were awarded the Olympic games. Free trade will now effectively change the criminal mentatlity of the Chinese? I dare say the manipulation and
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
              So the Chinese were awarded the Olympic games. Free trade will now
              effectively change the criminal mentatlity of the Chinese? I dare say the
              manipulation and cowardly actions disguised as 'free trade' invites everyone
              to step up to the twenty-first century and become a consumer animal like we
              have become in the West. Markets are full of clever baseless cowards with no
              concern about the Individual in China or the third world.

              We have had ample opportunity to give good wages to Mexico and every other
              country, like Thailand. We have new wages and new business ventures around
              the world, some are sweat shops for the western markets, but others have
              attempted to knock the hell out of the little pockets of group souls that
              remain and guide them toward the English speaking Michael impulse after the
              German one had failed.

              But you may be right, there are other points of issue, I don't find the
              policies of the West in a threefold world anything but selfish an
              mercernary. But who am I to complain? Silly me, I expected that the West
              might provide moral spiritual leadership, fairness. Indeed at first glance
              human rights violators like Milosovech have at least been brought to some
              kind of justice. But what background machinations from the west is helping
              countries tear themselves apart? Who do you think picks up the mess and
              gains after everyone has been lied to and put in unmarked mass graves? But
              please, I have very distorted insights on U.S. policy and my golden image of
              freedom and free trade for everyone is somewhat tarnished? I have a lopsided
              view I fear. I guess the IMF and World Trade are stand-up guys, I know
              George Bush is at least.

              *******Every word of criticism uttered banishes higher knowledge. Underestimation of what deserves respect exerts a withering effect on the growth of higher faculties. Finding the good in all things is one of the six basic exercises, Positiveness. From Knowledge of the Higher Worlds.
            • JadMcCurdy@aol.com
              Dear Starman, I m afraid your views expressed here are entirely inaccurate. Who is protesting? It is not just elite Western middle class people. Yes, a certain
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
                Dear Starman,

                I'm afraid your views expressed here are entirely inaccurate.

                Who is protesting? It is not just elite Western middle class people. Yes, a
                certain portion of the movement fits this description, but there was also a
                large working class presence in Genoa, as well as a large presence of youth
                (who themselves are not middle class), and a large presence of the
                marginalized and the urban dispossessed (check out Naomi Klein's article at Z
                Net). Moreover, protesters came from all over Europe and North America and
                also came from South America. I cannot confirm that African and Asian
                representatives were present, but I'm sure they were to some degree.

                Moreover, if you go to Indymedia you will find that solidarity demonstrations
                have occured around the world, from Portland, Oregon, to Argentina. To be
                exact, solidarity demonstrations occured in the following locations:

                "Solidarity demonstrations against the G8 summit and the police violence
                that has characterized it, have been organized worldwide in Amsterdam,
                Athens, Barcelona, Bologna, Boston, Brussels, Buenos Aires, Finland,
                Greece, Helsinki, Istanbul, London, Los Angeles, Madison, WI, Manchester,
                Melbourne, Miami, Milan, Montreal, Naperville, IL, New York, Oslo, Paris,
                Peru, Philadelphia, Portland, Rome, Salzburg, S�o Paulo, San
                Francisco/Berkeley, Stockholm, Sydney, Toronto, Turkey, Urbana, IL,
                Vancouver, Vienna, and Washington DC and in many other cities in Austria,
                Canada, Germany, Italy, UK, USA, and elsewhere." (Souce, Indymedia)

                As for the idea that the Third World is despirate for a piece of the free
                trade pie? This is also a gross distortion of reality. Yes, elites in the
                Third World want to enter into free trade agreements like the FTAA, but who
                speaks for the people? What is it that they want? Do you think Korean
                workers, who regularly battle police in the streets, want a piece of pie?
                Third World countries the world over attempted in the post-colonial period to
                assert national identities and many to form valid social democratic systems.
                Many even attempted to initiate real socialism, which is not contrary to the
                destiny of the freedom of the individual. Take Nicargua, for example.

                All of this is not to say that I fully agree with the approach the
                anti-corporate led globalization is taking. I feel protest is grossly
                outweighing efforts to build the movement independent of governments, which
                is the only way we will move toward a better world and threefolding. I
                certainly do not sympathize with the violent factions like the Black Bloc.
                However, the point of my posting RE: Genoa was not to support violent
                protest, but to reveal what the mass media and governments are hiding from
                the public.

                Besides, I think it would be a travesty for an Anthroposophical group to pass
                over a world event as significant and disturbing as Genoa without at least
                attempting to share our views, knowledge, and spiritual insights.

                Sincerely,

                John McCurdy
              • Guillermo Romero Ibarrola
                ... My 2 cents (of a Mexican Peso, of course): For those of you interested and able to understand spanish, there is an excelent cartoon on the Genova events
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
                  >Besides, I think it would be a travesty for an Anthroposophical group to pass
                  >over a world event as significant and disturbing as Genoa without at least
                  >attempting to share our views, knowledge, and spiritual insights.


                  My 2 cents (of a Mexican Peso, of course):

                  For those of you interested and able to understand spanish, there is an
                  excelent cartoon on the Genova events from one of Mexico's best journalists
                  at http://www.reforma.com/Carton/calderon/htm/20010722.htm. There Calderon
                  puts two pictures side by side, both famous: the one of the cornered Land
                  Rover been attacked by an anonimuos crowd (and the also anonimous armed arm
                  killing one of the crowd) and the other, the one of the single young men
                  stoping the tank in Bejin 1989, where Calderon notes that the dignity of
                  the manifestator induces that the person controling the tank find his own
                  human dignity and decides to stop the machine.

                  I have found that a middle path is normally the best alternative, and the
                  one that eventually finds its way and takes place. Changes in the world
                  are gradual, we already face global markets as opposed to local markets,
                  (and in truth, we have always been global, and have no other alternative
                  than being Global, from many perspectives: economic, environmental,
                  spiritual). (ie. "Global Village, Spaceship Earth", Gai, etc.)

                  The real problem is not globalization, but individual or group agendas that
                  try to derive benefits and priviledges from others. (economic, social,
                  natural resources, or just pretending to be the holders of Truth for a
                  while). That is the root problem for all human conflicts and the only
                  solution I forsee is the "unity of conciousness", which I am most certain
                  will come as a result of extremes finding a middle temporary solution,
                  until the extremes become gradually less extreme, and the middle will be
                  the common ground.

                  In Anthroposophic terms I see the globalophobics acting on a luciferic
                  impulse and the "8 plus Russia" acting on a arihmanic impulse, the solution
                  would be in the middle again, in the Christ impulse, and that is an impulse
                  of "unconditional Love", of unity, isn't?.

                  I see such conflicts as a learning experience for us Humans, a part of the
                  game we call life, which is nothing more than a Game of learning. No one
                  at the extremes is right, but there is a purpose for all.

                  Greetings

                  (All of the above of course IMHO)

                  Guillermo
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