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Genoa: The Truth Must Get Out, by Stefano

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  • JadMcCurdy@aol.com
    PLEASE FORWARD AND POST WAS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE!!! Hello everyone, Following is another report from Genoa that I find extraordinary! This person has really put
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
      PLEASE FORWARD AND POST WAS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE!!!

      Hello everyone,

      Following is another report from Genoa that I find extraordinary! This person
      has really put the big picture together and carefully documented and examined
      the interactions between protesters, the violent anarchists (ie. Black Bloc),
      and the authorities.

      For those of you still clinging to the idea that we must maintain solidarity
      with the violent factions, I can assure you this message will either change
      your mind, or least, bring you to seriously doubt this position.

      Sincerely,

      John A. McCurdy

      * * *

      IMC
      URL <http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=54961&group=webcast>

      THE TRUTH MUST GET OUT ( LA VARITA' DEVE USCIRE! ) (english)
      by original posting on italia.indymedia by reduc 6:53am Tue Jul 24 '01

      The original posting was published in Italian
      on italia.indymedia, following you'll find a
      translation in English.

      The original posting was published in Italian
      on italia.indymedia, following you'll find a
      translation in English.
      There's a few of similar witnesses' accounts
      circulating on various indymedia sites. This translation is an effort to show
      how police/auhtoritarian infiltration among various left groups has been
      causing harm, and people should be carefull not to fall into these set ups
      aimed at dividing the movement.

      STOP THE LIES!

      Dear friends, I was in Genoa. I have seen.
      Don't give any credit to the papers and tv news.
      It was crazy, a massacre.
      It's difficult to tell what happend between friday
      and saturday.
      To do it, I'm recounting what I saw and what
      very dear friends of mine in Genoa have seen.
      I beg you to have the patience to read, it is really the chronicle of a
      nightmare that you'll
      hardly hear anything about in the mainstream medias.

      (Day) 1. I arrive Thursday in Genoa, after the festive
      demonstration of migrants, 50,000 people.
      The (welcoming) camps are set there, there's
      so many of us.
      Thousands of absolutely peaceful people, a wunderful climate (remember scout
      camps?),
      people having discussions, people singing,
      people having a good time with each other.
      Scouts and militants, volunteers and professionals.
      Friday morning we set up the themes on the squares of a blindated city: The
      various associations will disparse throughout the city to
      commence a festive assoult with dances, performances and slogans at the
      famous Linea Rossa (Red Line).
      At this point, at the Lungo Mare (by the beach)
      the famous Blak Blok (sic) arrives, some of them
      are seen talking to police, others leave the
      (group) straight away. They mostly talk in German. They start to trash
      everything around
      them. The police and carabinieri (paramilitary
      police) just stand around. The black block tries
      to penetrate inside the gathering of the Workers'
      Unions (COBAS) and other syndicates, of whom
      they (black block) beat up one of the leaders,
      with difficulties they are managed to be chased off.
      Then, the black block go in direction of the
      square where the Centri Sociali (social centres)
      are gathered, they come down armed to their teeth. The police are following
      them. The demonstrators find themselves attacked, first
      by the black, then by the police, which -at this point- started a very
      violent charge.
      The black now go down to the square where
      the Liliput Net was gathered, mainly made of
      Catholic groups, equo, Mani Tese, etc.).
      The people, who are resisting peacefully tries
      to get rid of them.
      The police follows - and charges into the people.
      People raise their hands, screaming "Peace!".
      (What follows is) teargas, baton charges.
      There are injured people.
      The black go away, and continue to destroy
      the city....300-400 of the Black Bloc stray around Genoa, their guide(s)
      perfectly know(s)
      the city: their "tour of destruction" aimes at
      reaching every single city square where people of the movement are gathered.
      It's impressing. They move military-like, they
      infiltrate, their leaders yell out orders, the others
      act to the orders.
      And by cars, the police and carabinieri arrive.
      In the meantime, in the city square where the
      ARCI, aswell as the Attac Association, and other
      affinities are gathered, everything is going fine.
      In the early afternoon, people decide to leave
      the border to the Linea Rossa, until then blocked with people chanting,
      singing, performing, etc.
      The masses disperse towards Piazza Dante,
      all of a sudden, police launch teargas.
      There's a big run-away.
      The hospitals are getting filled with the injured.
      Alot of the injured, though, decide not to go to
      hospital to get treatment: police stop everyone
      who arrives there (the hospital).
      It's evening now. People are devastated, anger is arising in many.
      Of the black, all of a sudden there's no news.
      In the cittadel where the re-gathering of the Genoa Social Forum is based we
      will be 10,000.
      The news about the death of the young man arrives. There's fear. Stories of
      very violent beat-ups are increasing.
      Kids and nuns are crying. Many people around
      are injured. An elderly man with injuries on his head is crying, he's a
      retired metal worker.
      (Brother) Don Gallo, a monk from the Community of San Benedetto is there.
      Also in attendance, is he leader-mum of the Mothers of Plaza De Mayo in
      Argentina, those women who for years
      now have been searching for news about their
      children who have "desaparecido", dissapeared. She says she's devastaded
      about
      what she has seen with her very eyes, it reminds her to much of Argentina
      during dictatorship:
      she didn't think this could be possible in Italy.
      My brother, Luca Casarini of the Tute Bianche
      (the white ovaralls) intervenes together with
      Bertinotti (the only politicians who had the courage to run), they calm
      everybody: "Guys
      don't go out in small groups, don't accept the
      defiance of violence.
      People decide that the response shall be the
      big rally on the next day, there will
      heaps of us, peaceful against all provocations
      and the violence of the black block, aswell as
      the forces of order. Senator Malabarba tells
      about how he was at police stations. There,
      he says, he has seen strange persons dressed
      like demonstrators, who speak German aswell
      as other foreign languages.
      They interact with the police and then they
      leave the police station.
      All of a sudden,a fire explodes in a bank close
      to the cittadel where we are based.
      Helicopters are floating above it: for over 40
      minutes not even a fire brigade arrives, nothing.
      During the night one of the camps where we
      sleep, the Carlini (Stadium), is surrounded by police. "Come in and raid, do
      what you want."
      People are crying: they are begging not to be
      beaten up again. The police enters: in the camp they can't find a thing.

      (Day) 2. Saturday: the big rally,
      we are really in big numbers here. The crowd
      starts to move, thousands of colours amongst
      us. People from allover the World. All the affinity groups, all volunteers,
      the farmers, the metal union, the Kurds, etc.
      Songs, dances, thousands of flags.
      At the square Piazzale Kennedy there are no
      clashes, none.
      The Black Block comes out again. The police,
      suddenly, without any reason, breaks the huge
      demonstration in two.
      A war rages. Beat-ups everywhere, baton charges. They're gone crazy. The
      police charges into the metal workers of the FIOM and
      the young people of the group Rifondazione.
      Chases all around Genoa are starting.
      The ones remaining by themselves are getting
      chased, bashed.
      Numbers of people testify chase-ups and beat-ups just because they're
      recognised as
      demonstrators.
      A journo from the Sunday Times gets bashed,
      on todays edition he recounts the adventure....
      At a calm spot of the huge demo, by the beach,
      all of a sudden, teargased is being shot from
      roofs, and it causes panic.
      They use irritating gas, that produce dermatitis,
      and suffocate.
      The Black Block? They appear and disapear.
      Nobody stops them.
      They attack a guy from Rifondazione. They break his flag and bash him up.
      They attack with stones the spokesperson of
      the Genoa Social Forum.
      They break shop windows and loot fires.
      They are armed to their teeth: just how on Earth
      did they manage to get into a absolutely fortred Genoa??
      The top end of the big rally is calm,
      the Genoa Social Forum tells the crowds to
      disperse with calm, and not to walk around the
      city alone.
      We are lead to Marassi, where some buses of
      the ones who arrived in the morning are parked.
      We stay there. There is no way forward: at Piazzale Kennedy war is raging.
      There are many of us staying here, sitting on
      the ground. Suddenly teargas is getting shot
      again. Again, a mass run-off. People are trying
      to return towards the Cittadell of the Genoa Social Forum: police are driving
      around in their
      vans and yelling out: "We'll kill you all!"
      Crowds making up the second part of the big rally, will never arrive to the
      city square where the end was planned.
      Everybody is attacked indistinctivly at the Lungo Mare. Who manages to escape
      runs through
      the tiny lanes towards the hill, where a real
      manhunt is unfolding.
      It's Saturday night, the rally is already finished
      since a few hours, the police falls over the
      press-centre of the Genoa Social Forum.
      They bash up everybody, with an astounding
      violence. Particularly, they are interested in
      documentation (witnesses' statements, videos,
      photos, etc..) that tells what happend Friday and
      Saturday: the seem very carefull to destroy everything.
      All PCs are destroyed, aswell as all material they
      can find. The lawyer who co-ordinates the
      group of lawyers present in Genoa is being arrested. All the material that
      the lawyers had
      put together to defend the arrested people, all
      of it has been destroyed aswell.
      Now, we don't even know, how many (people) are accused/arrested, or who
      (those people) are.
      During the raid -done without any mandate-
      all parlamentarians, lawyers, journalists and
      doctors are not permitted to enter.
      The (in)famous weapons produced at the
      press conference today could not be seen yesterday night. The injured and the
      arrested
      remain. Of the Black Block, once again, no one has any news.

      I assure you, two days of nightmare: Black Block and the forces of order have
      commited a massacre, and, they wanted to commit it.
      Policemen and carabinieri were going on like
      madmen. Since Friday they were yelling and
      insulting...They really have lost their minds.
      And now, today, listening to the news and reading the papers: God, it really
      looks like a
      regime to me: where is the Truth written which all of us who were there have
      witnessed?
      I go crazy just thinking about, that some may still think: "you contestants,
      telling the usual bullshit..."
      Do not be fooled! Have the courage to put into
      discussion your convincements about the
      wunderful Italian forces of order and on the
      democratic apparatus of our State.
      In Genoa, truly, something crazy has been going on. They have the new
      government.....One more little thing: about the young man murdered.
      Do you know the first version (of the facts) given out by the detective squad
      who compared
      the videos? "Killed by a rock thrown by other
      protestors...."
      If you just think about it, that most of the documentation put together by
      witnesses has
      ben destroyed during the raid at the Genoa Social Forum last night......all
      that remains are
      the "secure" versions of the forces of order....
      Think about this, and please, circulate, distribute, print out, talk about,
      all this, there is
      a great need to bring the Tuth out there.
      Give it out to friends, family members, work
      colleagues. I beg you not to turn the other way.

      thank you
      Stefano

      PS: My brother is destroyed, he told me:
      "It's crazy, it's seems like Latin America in the
      1970s." Perhaps not even he understood completely with whom we have to do it
      with here, and what government and responsables
      of the forces of order could manage to do.
    • Richard Distasi
      John, I read the post by Stefano and yes it was disturbing. Most of the news media is reporting it as people who have absolutely no real interest in the issues
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
        John,

        I read the post by Stefano and yes it was disturbing. Most of the news media
        is reporting it as people who have absolutely no real interest in the issues
        of the summit but rather they are people who are simply looking for an
        opportunity to create anarchy. This post is implying that the violence is
        orchestrated by certain factions and that the violence is designed to
        discredit those who voice differences and opposition to global corporate
        policies.

        This post raises serious questions. Does anyone have anything else to add ?

        Rick Distasi

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <JadMcCurdy@...>
        To: <saysaysay@egroups.com>
        Cc: <macndp@yahoogroups.com>; <ark@yahoogroups.com>;
        <libertarian-socialism@yahoogroups.com>; <Secretsandlies@yahoogroups.com>;
        <anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com>; <libertarianfuture@yahoogroups.com>;
        <esotericpolitics@yahoogroups.com>; <natcoord@...>;
        <ag323@...>; <tim_batke@...>; <peterozzy@...>;
        <ICOntario@...>; <clark_trevor@...>;
        <canadianrenaissanceenterprises@...>; <raven@...>;
        <DeannaMF@...>; <daisy@...>; <sjoyhopkin@...>;
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        <bean_bug@...>; <heatherluigi@...>; <nina@...>;
        <dingai@...>; <kasiatota@...>; <htraher@...>;
        <echoadventures@...>; <vanderj@...>; <frannyrw@...>
        Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 1:03 PM
        Subject: [anthroposophy] Genoa: The Truth Must Get Out, by Stefano


        > PLEASE FORWARD AND POST WAS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE!!!
        >
        > Hello everyone,
        >
        > Following is another report from Genoa that I find extraordinary! This
        person
        > has really put the big picture together and carefully documented and
        examined
        > the interactions between protesters, the violent anarchists (ie. Black
        Bloc),
        > and the authorities.
        >
        > For those of you still clinging to the idea that we must maintain
        solidarity
        > with the violent factions, I can assure you this message will either
        change
        > your mind, or least, bring you to seriously doubt this position.
        >
        > Sincerely,
        >
        > John A. McCurdy
        >
        > * * *
        >
        > IMC
        > URL <http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=54961&group=webcast>
        >
        > THE TRUTH MUST GET OUT ( LA VARITA' DEVE USCIRE! ) (english)
        > by original posting on italia.indymedia by reduc 6:53am Tue Jul 24 '01
        >
        > The original posting was published in Italian
        > on italia.indymedia, following you'll find a
        > translation in English.
        >
        > The original posting was published in Italian
        > on italia.indymedia, following you'll find a
        > translation in English.
        > There's a few of similar witnesses' accounts
        > circulating on various indymedia sites. This translation is an effort to
        show
        > how police/auhtoritarian infiltration among various left groups has been
        > causing harm, and people should be carefull not to fall into these set ups
        > aimed at dividing the movement.
        >
        > STOP THE LIES!
        >
        > Dear friends, I was in Genoa. I have seen.
        > Don't give any credit to the papers and tv news.
        > It was crazy, a massacre.
        > It's difficult to tell what happend between friday
        > and saturday.
        > To do it, I'm recounting what I saw and what
        > very dear friends of mine in Genoa have seen.
        > I beg you to have the patience to read, it is really the chronicle of a
        > nightmare that you'll
        > hardly hear anything about in the mainstream medias.
        >
        > (Day) 1. I arrive Thursday in Genoa, after the festive
        > demonstration of migrants, 50,000 people.
        > The (welcoming) camps are set there, there's
        > so many of us.
        > Thousands of absolutely peaceful people, a wunderful climate (remember
        scout
        > camps?),
        > people having discussions, people singing,
        > people having a good time with each other.
        > Scouts and militants, volunteers and professionals.
        > Friday morning we set up the themes on the squares of a blindated city:
        The
        > various associations will disparse throughout the city to
        > commence a festive assoult with dances, performances and slogans at the
        > famous Linea Rossa (Red Line).
        > At this point, at the Lungo Mare (by the beach)
        > the famous Blak Blok (sic) arrives, some of them
        > are seen talking to police, others leave the
        > (group) straight away. They mostly talk in German. They start to trash
        > everything around
        > them. The police and carabinieri (paramilitary
        > police) just stand around. The black block tries
        > to penetrate inside the gathering of the Workers'
        > Unions (COBAS) and other syndicates, of whom
        > they (black block) beat up one of the leaders,
        > with difficulties they are managed to be chased off.
        > Then, the black block go in direction of the
        > square where the Centri Sociali (social centres)
        > are gathered, they come down armed to their teeth. The police are
        following
        > them. The demonstrators find themselves attacked, first
        > by the black, then by the police, which -at this point- started a very
        > violent charge.
        > The black now go down to the square where
        > the Liliput Net was gathered, mainly made of
        > Catholic groups, equo, Mani Tese, etc.).
        > The people, who are resisting peacefully tries
        > to get rid of them.
        > The police follows - and charges into the people.
        > People raise their hands, screaming "Peace!".
        > (What follows is) teargas, baton charges.
        > There are injured people.
        > The black go away, and continue to destroy
        > the city....300-400 of the Black Bloc stray around Genoa, their guide(s)
        > perfectly know(s)
        > the city: their "tour of destruction" aimes at
        > reaching every single city square where people of the movement are
        gathered.
        > It's impressing. They move military-like, they
        > infiltrate, their leaders yell out orders, the others
        > act to the orders.
        > And by cars, the police and carabinieri arrive.
        > In the meantime, in the city square where the
        > ARCI, aswell as the Attac Association, and other
        > affinities are gathered, everything is going fine.
        > In the early afternoon, people decide to leave
        > the border to the Linea Rossa, until then blocked with people chanting,
        > singing, performing, etc.
        > The masses disperse towards Piazza Dante,
        > all of a sudden, police launch teargas.
        > There's a big run-away.
        > The hospitals are getting filled with the injured.
        > Alot of the injured, though, decide not to go to
        > hospital to get treatment: police stop everyone
        > who arrives there (the hospital).
        > It's evening now. People are devastated, anger is arising in many.
        > Of the black, all of a sudden there's no news.
        > In the cittadel where the re-gathering of the Genoa Social Forum is based
        we
        > will be 10,000.
        > The news about the death of the young man arrives. There's fear. Stories
        of
        > very violent beat-ups are increasing.
        > Kids and nuns are crying. Many people around
        > are injured. An elderly man with injuries on his head is crying, he's a
        > retired metal worker.
        > (Brother) Don Gallo, a monk from the Community of San Benedetto is there.
        > Also in attendance, is he leader-mum of the Mothers of Plaza De Mayo in
        > Argentina, those women who for years
        > now have been searching for news about their
        > children who have "desaparecido", dissapeared. She says she's devastaded
        > about
        > what she has seen with her very eyes, it reminds her to much of Argentina
        > during dictatorship:
        > she didn't think this could be possible in Italy.
        > My brother, Luca Casarini of the Tute Bianche
        > (the white ovaralls) intervenes together with
        > Bertinotti (the only politicians who had the courage to run), they calm
        > everybody: "Guys
        > don't go out in small groups, don't accept the
        > defiance of violence.
        > People decide that the response shall be the
        > big rally on the next day, there will
        > heaps of us, peaceful against all provocations
        > and the violence of the black block, aswell as
        > the forces of order. Senator Malabarba tells
        > about how he was at police stations. There,
        > he says, he has seen strange persons dressed
        > like demonstrators, who speak German aswell
        > as other foreign languages.
        > They interact with the police and then they
        > leave the police station.
        > All of a sudden,a fire explodes in a bank close
        > to the cittadel where we are based.
        > Helicopters are floating above it: for over 40
        > minutes not even a fire brigade arrives, nothing.
        > During the night one of the camps where we
        > sleep, the Carlini (Stadium), is surrounded by police. "Come in and raid,
        do
        > what you want."
        > People are crying: they are begging not to be
        > beaten up again. The police enters: in the camp they can't find a thing.
        >
        > (Day) 2. Saturday: the big rally,
        > we are really in big numbers here. The crowd
        > starts to move, thousands of colours amongst
        > us. People from allover the World. All the affinity groups, all
        volunteers,
        > the farmers, the metal union, the Kurds, etc.
        > Songs, dances, thousands of flags.
        > At the square Piazzale Kennedy there are no
        > clashes, none.
        > The Black Block comes out again. The police,
        > suddenly, without any reason, breaks the huge
        > demonstration in two.
        > A war rages. Beat-ups everywhere, baton charges. They're gone crazy. The
        > police charges into the metal workers of the FIOM and
        > the young people of the group Rifondazione.
        > Chases all around Genoa are starting.
        > The ones remaining by themselves are getting
        > chased, bashed.
        > Numbers of people testify chase-ups and beat-ups just because they're
        > recognised as
        > demonstrators.
        > A journo from the Sunday Times gets bashed,
        > on todays edition he recounts the adventure....
        > At a calm spot of the huge demo, by the beach,
        > all of a sudden, teargased is being shot from
        > roofs, and it causes panic.
        > They use irritating gas, that produce dermatitis,
        > and suffocate.
        > The Black Block? They appear and disapear.
        > Nobody stops them.
        > They attack a guy from Rifondazione. They break his flag and bash him up.
        > They attack with stones the spokesperson of
        > the Genoa Social Forum.
        > They break shop windows and loot fires.
        > They are armed to their teeth: just how on Earth
        > did they manage to get into a absolutely fortred Genoa??
        > The top end of the big rally is calm,
        > the Genoa Social Forum tells the crowds to
        > disperse with calm, and not to walk around the
        > city alone.
        > We are lead to Marassi, where some buses of
        > the ones who arrived in the morning are parked.
        > We stay there. There is no way forward: at Piazzale Kennedy war is raging.
        > There are many of us staying here, sitting on
        > the ground. Suddenly teargas is getting shot
        > again. Again, a mass run-off. People are trying
        > to return towards the Cittadell of the Genoa Social Forum: police are
        driving
        > around in their
        > vans and yelling out: "We'll kill you all!"
        > Crowds making up the second part of the big rally, will never arrive to
        the
        > city square where the end was planned.
        > Everybody is attacked indistinctivly at the Lungo Mare. Who manages to
        escape
        > runs through
        > the tiny lanes towards the hill, where a real
        > manhunt is unfolding.
        > It's Saturday night, the rally is already finished
        > since a few hours, the police falls over the
        > press-centre of the Genoa Social Forum.
        > They bash up everybody, with an astounding
        > violence. Particularly, they are interested in
        > documentation (witnesses' statements, videos,
        > photos, etc..) that tells what happend Friday and
        > Saturday: the seem very carefull to destroy everything.
        > All PCs are destroyed, aswell as all material they
        > can find. The lawyer who co-ordinates the
        > group of lawyers present in Genoa is being arrested. All the material that
        > the lawyers had
        > put together to defend the arrested people, all
        > of it has been destroyed aswell.
        > Now, we don't even know, how many (people) are accused/arrested, or who
        > (those people) are.
        > During the raid -done without any mandate-
        > all parlamentarians, lawyers, journalists and
        > doctors are not permitted to enter.
        > The (in)famous weapons produced at the
        > press conference today could not be seen yesterday night. The injured and
        the
        > arrested
        > remain. Of the Black Block, once again, no one has any news.
        >
        > I assure you, two days of nightmare: Black Block and the forces of order
        have
        > commited a massacre, and, they wanted to commit it.
        > Policemen and carabinieri were going on like
        > madmen. Since Friday they were yelling and
        > insulting...They really have lost their minds.
        > And now, today, listening to the news and reading the papers: God, it
        really
        > looks like a
        > regime to me: where is the Truth written which all of us who were there
        have
        > witnessed?
        > I go crazy just thinking about, that some may still think: "you
        contestants,
        > telling the usual bullshit..."
        > Do not be fooled! Have the courage to put into
        > discussion your convincements about the
        > wunderful Italian forces of order and on the
        > democratic apparatus of our State.
        > In Genoa, truly, something crazy has been going on. They have the new
        > government.....One more little thing: about the young man murdered.
        > Do you know the first version (of the facts) given out by the detective
        squad
        > who compared
        > the videos? "Killed by a rock thrown by other
        > protestors...."
        > If you just think about it, that most of the documentation put together by
        > witnesses has
        > ben destroyed during the raid at the Genoa Social Forum last
        night......all
        > that remains are
        > the "secure" versions of the forces of order....
        > Think about this, and please, circulate, distribute, print out, talk
        about,
        > all this, there is
        > a great need to bring the Tuth out there.
        > Give it out to friends, family members, work
        > colleagues. I beg you not to turn the other way.
        >
        > thank you
        > Stefano
        >
        > PS: My brother is destroyed, he told me:
        > "It's crazy, it's seems like Latin America in the
        > 1970s." Perhaps not even he understood completely with whom we have to do
        it
        > with here, and what government and responsables
        > of the forces of order could manage to do.
        >
        >
        > http://www.egroups.com/group/anthroposophy
        > Unsubscribe:
        > anthroposophy-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        > List owner: anthroposophy-owner@egroups.com
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • Bradford Riley
        ... Bradford writes: It sounds like scabs or strike busters (people who are out to reduce the real issues to mere violent youth etc..) As in all protest, the
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
          >From: "Richard Distasi"


          > This post raises serious questions. Does anyone have anything else to add
          >?


          Bradford writes:

          It sounds like 'scabs' or strike busters (people who are out to reduce the
          real issues to mere violent youth etc..) As in all protest, the methods to
          discourage and turn world interest and sympathy away have been designed by
          the best 'intelligence agents' in the world.

          While the hopes may be to get the New World Order and IMF and global nations
          to hear the voice of the Earth; the voice of human spirits, perhaps against
          genetics, corporate global directions taken for ahrimanic profits and all
          the attending enormous social and economic issues that would serve to
          present a Green Peace forum and face- the dividing and infiltrating groups
          enter disguised as protesters so that real issues will never be heard. This
          type of 'covert infiltration has become a highly successful ahrimanic spin
          control or; Wag the Dog methodology. Constant covert issues and smear
          campaigns make any other view look destructive and create a fear to listen
          instead of an ear to listen.

          In other words, organizers are fully aware of the awfully well studied
          covert spys and paid trouble makers that give the T.V. viewers no chance to
          really form any objective opinion. The current career of being a News
          Reporter is very Orwellian. It is being a rumor monger and a player for the
          political parties in play. Liars and suck-ups most of them! I am speaking of
          merely the sad state of affairs in the U.S.. Cutting edge reporters are not
          given air time except through internet coverage. The Ahrimanic forces
          scatter and confuse the sheep like well trained pack wolves.

          Truth in this arena is tangled, messy and detours the half-awake U.S. from
          paying attention to the radical 8th sphere abyss we are dancing over while
          all these powerful social discoveries and horrors in terms of cloning, gene
          developments, germ warfare, scapegoating, manipulating loans in the IMF,
          funding most of the terrorists and having been (the U.S.) the main supplier
          of guns and drugs, as long as it turns a covert profit, (and behind the
          front lines are occult groups with profound well studied agendas that stand
          behind the various political figures pulling the strings.)

          But there is a world going to hell in handbasket and every soul who can
          stand on the line is needed. Thoughts raised consciously are needed, but the
          ahrimanic forces are not playing on an even playing field. Lucifer and
          Ahriman have had years to study and conquer what was once a free media, with
          photos of fire bombed children in Viet Nam on the evening news and real
          reporters who sought truth. Those days are long gone.

          Hey I may be missing the point but I offer my confidence to anyone who can
          give some of humanity one moment of reflection on the enormous issues we
          have let loose from Pandoras big box.

          Bradford



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        • Jo Ann Schwartz
          ... Hi Rick, Here are a few URLs for alternative news of Genoa: Truncheons Rained Down on Me in the Battle of Genoa (extreme brutality against journalists
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
            --- Rick asked:
            > This post is implying that the violence is
            > orchestrated by certain factions and that the violence is designed to
            > discredit those who voice differences and opposition to global corporate
            > policies.
            >
            > This post raises serious questions. Does anyone have anything else to
            > add ?


            Hi Rick,

            Here are a few URLs for 'alternative' news of Genoa:

            Truncheons Rained Down on Me in the Battle of Genoa
            (extreme brutality against journalists and bystanders is now the norm)
            http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/07/22/stifgneur02005.html

            accounts of the police attack on the media center and protest organizers
            (no sympathy for the guy who got shot, but that's no excuse)
            http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=102064
            http://italy.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=5539

            a prominent pacifist's diary from Genoa
            http://starhawk.org/activism/genoa1.html
            http://starhawk.org/activism/genoa2.html

            propagandists caricature the views of globalization protesters with
            impunity
            (why is this utterly derivative "commentary" treated as news?)
            http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/me/20010720.me.04.rmm

            here is the only column I've seen supporting them
            (but why get vapid poetry from communists, when you can get the real
            leaders?)
            http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/20/opinion/20HARDT.html


            [Thanks to Phil Agre of the Red Rock Eater News Service for collecting
            these.]


            Cheers,
            JoAnn




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          • Richard Distasi
            Joann, Thanks for all of the sites that you listed. I went to all of them and read some of them. It is imperative that all sides are heard and not simply what
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
              Joann,
              Thanks for all of the sites that you listed. I went to all of them and read
              some of them. It is imperative that all sides are heard and not simply what
              the giants in the news media report.

              Speaking of giants, isn't that what the Book of Revelation speaks of when it
              mentions that battle of Gog verses Magog. It is the battle of centralized
              superpower structures in all fields verses the free individual and that the
              continued development of the free individual is the true and eventual course
              in human consciousness.

              Rick Distasi

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Jo Ann Schwartz <sr_joanna@...>
              To: <anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 5:57 PM
              Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Genoa: The Truth Must Get Out, by Stefano


              >
              > --- Rick asked:
              > > This post is implying that the violence is
              > > orchestrated by certain factions and that the violence is designed to
              > > discredit those who voice differences and opposition to global corporate
              > > policies.
              > >
              > > This post raises serious questions. Does anyone have anything else to
              > > add ?
              >
              >
              > Hi Rick,
              >
              > Here are a few URLs for 'alternative' news of Genoa:
              >
              > Truncheons Rained Down on Me in the Battle of Genoa
              > (extreme brutality against journalists and bystanders is now the norm)
              >
              http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/07/22/stifgneur02005.html
              >
              > accounts of the police attack on the media center and protest organizers
              > (no sympathy for the guy who got shot, but that's no excuse)
              > http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=102064
              > http://italy.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=5539
              >
              > a prominent pacifist's diary from Genoa
              > http://starhawk.org/activism/genoa1.html
              > http://starhawk.org/activism/genoa2.html
              >
              > propagandists caricature the views of globalization protesters with
              > impunity
              > (why is this utterly derivative "commentary" treated as news?)
              > http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/me/20010720.me.04.rmm
              >
              > here is the only column I've seen supporting them
              > (but why get vapid poetry from communists, when you can get the real
              > leaders?)
              > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/20/opinion/20HARDT.html
              >
              >
              > [Thanks to Phil Agre of the Red Rock Eater News Service for collecting
              > these.]
              >
              >
              > Cheers,
              > JoAnn
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
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              >
              >
            • DRStarman2001@aol.com
              I find it absolutely amazing that elitist middle-class Westerners fly to events all over protesting the free trade the developing countries are desperate
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
                I find it absolutely amazing that elitist middle-class Westerners fly to
                events all over 'protesting' the free trade the developing countries are
                desperate for. No one from the Third World goes to these things trying to
                stop the expansion of the free market--- only socialist propagandists who
                claim to speak FOR them. What warped people.
              • Bradford Riley
                ... Bradford writes: Dottie is right, there are at least three sides to this story. The west, middle and east are very lopsided or onesided in their pursuits.
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 24, 2001
                  Starman writes:

                  >From: >I find it absolutely amazing that elitist middle-class Westerners
                  >fly to
                  >events all over 'protesting' the free trade the developing countries are
                  >desperate for. No one from the Third World goes to these things trying to
                  >stop the expansion of the free market--- only socialist propagandists who
                  >claim to speak FOR them. What warped people.

                  Bradford writes:

                  Dottie is right, there are at least three sides to this story. The west,
                  middle and east are very lopsided or onesided in their pursuits.

                  So the Chinese were awarded the Olympic games. Free trade will now
                  effectively change the criminal mentatlity of the Chinese? I dare say the
                  manipulation and cowardly actions disguised as 'free trade' invites everyone
                  to step up to the twenty-first century and become a consumer animal like we
                  have become in the West. Markets are full of clever baseless cowards with no
                  concern about the Individual in China or the third world.

                  We have had ample opportunity to give good wages to Mexico and every other
                  country, like Thailand. We have new wages and new business ventures around
                  the world, some are sweat shops for the western markets, but others have
                  attempted to knock the hell out of the little pockets of group souls that
                  remain and guide them toward the English speaking Michael impulse after the
                  German one had failed.

                  But you may be right, there are other points of issue, I don't find the
                  policies of the West in a threefold world anything but selfish an
                  mercernary. But who am I to complain? Silly me, I expected that the West
                  might provide moral spiritual leadership, fairness. Indeed at first glance
                  human rights violators like Milosovech have at least been brought to some
                  kind of justice. But what background machinations from the west is helping
                  countries tear themselves apart? Who do you think picks up the mess and
                  gains after everyone has been lied to and put in unmarked mass graves? But
                  please, I have very distorted insights on U.S. policy and my golden image of
                  freedom and free trade for everyone is somewhat tarnished? I have a lopsided
                  view I fear. I guess the IMF and World Trade are stand-up guys, I know
                  George Bush is at least.

                  Bradford

                  _________________________________________________________________
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                • DRStarman2001@aol.com
                  So the Chinese were awarded the Olympic games. Free trade will now effectively change the criminal mentatlity of the Chinese? I dare say the manipulation and
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
                    So the Chinese were awarded the Olympic games. Free trade will now
                    effectively change the criminal mentatlity of the Chinese? I dare say the
                    manipulation and cowardly actions disguised as 'free trade' invites everyone
                    to step up to the twenty-first century and become a consumer animal like we
                    have become in the West. Markets are full of clever baseless cowards with no
                    concern about the Individual in China or the third world.

                    We have had ample opportunity to give good wages to Mexico and every other
                    country, like Thailand. We have new wages and new business ventures around
                    the world, some are sweat shops for the western markets, but others have
                    attempted to knock the hell out of the little pockets of group souls that
                    remain and guide them toward the English speaking Michael impulse after the
                    German one had failed.

                    But you may be right, there are other points of issue, I don't find the
                    policies of the West in a threefold world anything but selfish an
                    mercernary. But who am I to complain? Silly me, I expected that the West
                    might provide moral spiritual leadership, fairness. Indeed at first glance
                    human rights violators like Milosovech have at least been brought to some
                    kind of justice. But what background machinations from the west is helping
                    countries tear themselves apart? Who do you think picks up the mess and
                    gains after everyone has been lied to and put in unmarked mass graves? But
                    please, I have very distorted insights on U.S. policy and my golden image of
                    freedom and free trade for everyone is somewhat tarnished? I have a lopsided
                    view I fear. I guess the IMF and World Trade are stand-up guys, I know
                    George Bush is at least.

                    *******Every word of criticism uttered banishes higher knowledge. Underestimation of what deserves respect exerts a withering effect on the growth of higher faculties. Finding the good in all things is one of the six basic exercises, Positiveness. From Knowledge of the Higher Worlds.
                  • JadMcCurdy@aol.com
                    Dear Starman, I m afraid your views expressed here are entirely inaccurate. Who is protesting? It is not just elite Western middle class people. Yes, a certain
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
                      Dear Starman,

                      I'm afraid your views expressed here are entirely inaccurate.

                      Who is protesting? It is not just elite Western middle class people. Yes, a
                      certain portion of the movement fits this description, but there was also a
                      large working class presence in Genoa, as well as a large presence of youth
                      (who themselves are not middle class), and a large presence of the
                      marginalized and the urban dispossessed (check out Naomi Klein's article at Z
                      Net). Moreover, protesters came from all over Europe and North America and
                      also came from South America. I cannot confirm that African and Asian
                      representatives were present, but I'm sure they were to some degree.

                      Moreover, if you go to Indymedia you will find that solidarity demonstrations
                      have occured around the world, from Portland, Oregon, to Argentina. To be
                      exact, solidarity demonstrations occured in the following locations:

                      "Solidarity demonstrations against the G8 summit and the police violence
                      that has characterized it, have been organized worldwide in Amsterdam,
                      Athens, Barcelona, Bologna, Boston, Brussels, Buenos Aires, Finland,
                      Greece, Helsinki, Istanbul, London, Los Angeles, Madison, WI, Manchester,
                      Melbourne, Miami, Milan, Montreal, Naperville, IL, New York, Oslo, Paris,
                      Peru, Philadelphia, Portland, Rome, Salzburg, S�o Paulo, San
                      Francisco/Berkeley, Stockholm, Sydney, Toronto, Turkey, Urbana, IL,
                      Vancouver, Vienna, and Washington DC and in many other cities in Austria,
                      Canada, Germany, Italy, UK, USA, and elsewhere." (Souce, Indymedia)

                      As for the idea that the Third World is despirate for a piece of the free
                      trade pie? This is also a gross distortion of reality. Yes, elites in the
                      Third World want to enter into free trade agreements like the FTAA, but who
                      speaks for the people? What is it that they want? Do you think Korean
                      workers, who regularly battle police in the streets, want a piece of pie?
                      Third World countries the world over attempted in the post-colonial period to
                      assert national identities and many to form valid social democratic systems.
                      Many even attempted to initiate real socialism, which is not contrary to the
                      destiny of the freedom of the individual. Take Nicargua, for example.

                      All of this is not to say that I fully agree with the approach the
                      anti-corporate led globalization is taking. I feel protest is grossly
                      outweighing efforts to build the movement independent of governments, which
                      is the only way we will move toward a better world and threefolding. I
                      certainly do not sympathize with the violent factions like the Black Bloc.
                      However, the point of my posting RE: Genoa was not to support violent
                      protest, but to reveal what the mass media and governments are hiding from
                      the public.

                      Besides, I think it would be a travesty for an Anthroposophical group to pass
                      over a world event as significant and disturbing as Genoa without at least
                      attempting to share our views, knowledge, and spiritual insights.

                      Sincerely,

                      John McCurdy
                    • Guillermo Romero Ibarrola
                      ... My 2 cents (of a Mexican Peso, of course): For those of you interested and able to understand spanish, there is an excelent cartoon on the Genova events
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 25, 2001
                        >Besides, I think it would be a travesty for an Anthroposophical group to pass
                        >over a world event as significant and disturbing as Genoa without at least
                        >attempting to share our views, knowledge, and spiritual insights.


                        My 2 cents (of a Mexican Peso, of course):

                        For those of you interested and able to understand spanish, there is an
                        excelent cartoon on the Genova events from one of Mexico's best journalists
                        at http://www.reforma.com/Carton/calderon/htm/20010722.htm. There Calderon
                        puts two pictures side by side, both famous: the one of the cornered Land
                        Rover been attacked by an anonimuos crowd (and the also anonimous armed arm
                        killing one of the crowd) and the other, the one of the single young men
                        stoping the tank in Bejin 1989, where Calderon notes that the dignity of
                        the manifestator induces that the person controling the tank find his own
                        human dignity and decides to stop the machine.

                        I have found that a middle path is normally the best alternative, and the
                        one that eventually finds its way and takes place. Changes in the world
                        are gradual, we already face global markets as opposed to local markets,
                        (and in truth, we have always been global, and have no other alternative
                        than being Global, from many perspectives: economic, environmental,
                        spiritual). (ie. "Global Village, Spaceship Earth", Gai, etc.)

                        The real problem is not globalization, but individual or group agendas that
                        try to derive benefits and priviledges from others. (economic, social,
                        natural resources, or just pretending to be the holders of Truth for a
                        while). That is the root problem for all human conflicts and the only
                        solution I forsee is the "unity of conciousness", which I am most certain
                        will come as a result of extremes finding a middle temporary solution,
                        until the extremes become gradually less extreme, and the middle will be
                        the common ground.

                        In Anthroposophic terms I see the globalophobics acting on a luciferic
                        impulse and the "8 plus Russia" acting on a arihmanic impulse, the solution
                        would be in the middle again, in the Christ impulse, and that is an impulse
                        of "unconditional Love", of unity, isn't?.

                        I see such conflicts as a learning experience for us Humans, a part of the
                        game we call life, which is nothing more than a Game of learning. No one
                        at the extremes is right, but there is a purpose for all.

                        Greetings

                        (All of the above of course IMHO)

                        Guillermo
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