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Re: The Physical Christ

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  • Stephen Hale
    ... Robert, Don t know if Bondy recognized G & O, but Michael certainly did. 1915 in order to thwart the South American influence, which the german aryans
    Message 1 of 28 , Oct 2, 2008
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      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mason
      <robertsmason_99@...> wrote:
      >
      > To Mikko, who wrote:
      >
      > >>Steiner had bad things to say about Mexico,
      > for instance that they crucified a person
      > upside down at the same time as Jesus was
      > crucified on Golgotha.<<
      >
      > Robert writes:
      >
      > That particular crucifixion (not upside down,
      > as far as I recall) wasn't really the "bad
      > thing"; rather, it was the "good thing" in that
      > story: the defeat of the greatest (i.e. worst)
      > black magician. See the cycle *Inner Impulses
      > of Evolution*:
      > <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/InnerImpul/InnImp_index.html>
      >
      > Mikko wrote:
      >
      > >>I also wonder if Steiner had anything to say
      > about South America, I've never seen any text
      > like that.<<
      >
      > Robert writes:
      >
      > He did indeed say something about South
      > America, but I don't have the citation. I
      > vaguely recall that Steiner may have said
      > something to the effect that the religious
      > soul-configuration of the people in South
      > America is similar to that of the people in
      > Eastern Europe, and that this was one reason
      > why the Jesuits, who had some occult insight
      > into these facts and the possible course of
      > future evolution in the Sixth Epoch, sought to
      > establish themselves in a strong position in
      > South America -- e.g. in their soul-numbing
      > polity in Paraguay. But again, I don't have
      > Steiner's exact words or the reference.
      >
      > In *The Crisis Of Civilization* the
      > excommunicated Russian Anthroposophist Gennady
      > Bondarev says:
      >
      > ". . . it {the Jesuit polity in Paraguay} was
      > black magic practised on the scale of an entire
      > state, putting man into the condition of
      > group-soul of that far distant epoch in which
      > he was not yet man, but man-animal. The same
      > experiment, we may add, is done in Russia."
      > [p. 45]
      >
      > Bondarev considers the 6th Epoch to be more a
      > "German-Slavic" epoch, since (he argues)
      > rightful social evolution can happen only if
      > the Mid-European cultural tasks of social *I*-
      > development come to fruition and are passed on
      > to the East. Steiner says that the Germans are
      > the avant-garde of the sixth sub-race (GA264).
      > The true German culture comes to expression in
      > Idealism, Goetheanism, Anthroposophy, and
      > Social Threefolding. It has been the aim, all
      > too successful, of evil occult-political forces
      > in the 20th Century to crush the Germans and
      > the East Slavs, to prevent the right evolution
      > toward the 6th Epoch, which should be led (in a
      > way) by the East Slavs. If these evil designs
      > succeed, the 6th Epoch would then be centered
      > in South America, but would be maimed and
      > distorted, and the Spirit Self will not descend
      > in the way intended for progressive evolution.
      > -- Bondarev does not give a citation of Steiner
      > for this last point, but I think Prokofieff
      > might, in his *Spiritual Origins of Eastern
      > Europe...*
      >
      > From "The Spiritual Configuration of Europe",
      > i.e. Chapter 16 of *Crisis*:
      > <http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1105/SpiritualEurope.htm>
      >
      > "These are in a very condensed form some of the
      > essential elements of the methodology of modern
      > politology. Anyone who does not master them is
      > given over to empty quarrels and enmities. But
      > those whose sense of national self-worth is
      > undermined by the development of the actual
      > state of affairs can merely be told: Have
      > patience, the time will come when Germany will
      > fulfil its cultural-historical task, and then
      > retire into the background and make way for
      > others. But God grant that the latter does not
      > happen today. For this would mean that the
      > secret societies of the West would have
      > succeeding in diverting the cultural impulse
      > before its meeting with the Spirit Self, in
      > forcing it further westwards. In this case one
      > would have succeeded in making the fifth
      > cultural epoch, in which the Anglo-Saxon race -
      > with full justification - plays a leading rôle,
      > eternal in a certain sense, in endowing it with
      > a peculiar ahrimanic immortality. If this were
      > to happen - says Rudolf Steiner - the sixth
      > cultural epoch would indeed begin, but it would
      > be transposed to South America and take effect
      > only in a modified form. It would then come
      > into contradiction with the spiritual laws of
      > earth and cosmos. Only the human beings with
      > the greatest strength of spirit would be able
      > to attain the Spirit Self individually, through
      > efforts having the character of an initiation.
      > As to the rest of the inhabitants of the earth,
      > their fate would veritably be a 'gnashing of
      > teeth'. The emergence of the evil race, as
      > prophesied in the Apocalypse, would move
      > forward at an accelerated pace. The black-
      > magical Mysteries of Taotl would come to life
      > with renewed force."
      >
      > Hope this helps,
      >
      > Robert M

      Robert,

      Don't know if Bondy recognized G & O, but Michael certainly did.
      1915 in order to thwart the South American influence, which the
      german aryans wanted to place even as far back as 1889 with the
      Forester's, Bernhard and Elizabeth. Paraguay was the place for this
      settlement, and it truly represented the precursor to an ideal of a
      failed sixth cultural epoch in the fifth. Bernhard Forester
      committed suicide when his plan failed, and Nietzsche lived through
      the supports provided by Schopenauer and Wagner.

      And that is how Adolf Hitler was born!. Said before, and will say
      again if anybody is interested.

      Steve
    • Stephen Hale
      Also, isn t it interesting that the author s foreward to the book allegedly written by Irina Gordienko states quite emphatically very early in this treatise
      Message 2 of 28 , Oct 2, 2008
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        Also, isn't it interesting that the author's foreward to the book
        allegedly written by Irina Gordienko states quite emphatically very
        early in this treatise that Prokofieff was a complete product of the
        west? This assertion apparently comes from the Wimbauer book of
        1995, but it, in fact, forms the entire formative structure of the
        book.

        Thus, Prokofieff, and the entire GAS which supposedly supports the
        anthroposophical movement today, is a product of western formulation,
        regardless of the spiritual configuration of eastern europe.

        I believe that *that* is the most important point. Selling out
        anthroposophy to South America in a premature effort to instream the
        sixth cultural epoch into the fifth. And, of course, Amnerica is
        behind it with its greedy plan of democratic territorial expansion
        under the auspices of the Monroe Doctrine.

        Also, a very unhealthy dose of extreme magnetism doesn't help the
        cause. We all have *that* fact to fight as the ahrimanic influence
        centered in the west that some want to extend throughout the entire
        world. No wonder Europe is pissed. It comes from the divisive
        layer, or eighth subearthly level where the asuras hold sway, and the
        occultists succeed in bringing to the surface. And these occultists
        represent the western brotherhood, which gets to be our destiny to
        explain and fight.

        Steve



        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
        <sardisian01@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mason
        > <robertsmason_99@> wrote:
        > >
        > > To Mikko, who wrote:
        > >
        > > >>Steiner had bad things to say about Mexico,
        > > for instance that they crucified a person
        > > upside down at the same time as Jesus was
        > > crucified on Golgotha.<<
        > >
        > > Robert writes:
        > >
        > > That particular crucifixion (not upside down,
        > > as far as I recall) wasn't really the "bad
        > > thing"; rather, it was the "good thing" in that
        > > story: the defeat of the greatest (i.e. worst)
        > > black magician. See the cycle *Inner Impulses
        > > of Evolution*:
        > > <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/InnerImpul/InnImp_index.html>
        > >
        > > Mikko wrote:
        > >
        > > >>I also wonder if Steiner had anything to say
        > > about South America, I've never seen any text
        > > like that.<<
        > >
        > > Robert writes:
        > >
        > > He did indeed say something about South
        > > America, but I don't have the citation. I
        > > vaguely recall that Steiner may have said
        > > something to the effect that the religious
        > > soul-configuration of the people in South
        > > America is similar to that of the people in
        > > Eastern Europe, and that this was one reason
        > > why the Jesuits, who had some occult insight
        > > into these facts and the possible course of
        > > future evolution in the Sixth Epoch, sought to
        > > establish themselves in a strong position in
        > > South America -- e.g. in their soul-numbing
        > > polity in Paraguay. But again, I don't have
        > > Steiner's exact words or the reference.
        > >
        > > In *The Crisis Of Civilization* the
        > > excommunicated Russian Anthroposophist Gennady
        > > Bondarev says:
        > >
        > > ". . . it {the Jesuit polity in Paraguay} was
        > > black magic practised on the scale of an entire
        > > state, putting man into the condition of
        > > group-soul of that far distant epoch in which
        > > he was not yet man, but man-animal. The same
        > > experiment, we may add, is done in Russia."
        > > [p. 45]
        > >
        > > Bondarev considers the 6th Epoch to be more a
        > > "German-Slavic" epoch, since (he argues)
        > > rightful social evolution can happen only if
        > > the Mid-European cultural tasks of social *I*-
        > > development come to fruition and are passed on
        > > to the East. Steiner says that the Germans are
        > > the avant-garde of the sixth sub-race (GA264).
        > > The true German culture comes to expression in
        > > Idealism, Goetheanism, Anthroposophy, and
        > > Social Threefolding. It has been the aim, all
        > > too successful, of evil occult-political forces
        > > in the 20th Century to crush the Germans and
        > > the East Slavs, to prevent the right evolution
        > > toward the 6th Epoch, which should be led (in a
        > > way) by the East Slavs. If these evil designs
        > > succeed, the 6th Epoch would then be centered
        > > in South America, but would be maimed and
        > > distorted, and the Spirit Self will not descend
        > > in the way intended for progressive evolution.
        > > -- Bondarev does not give a citation of Steiner
        > > for this last point, but I think Prokofieff
        > > might, in his *Spiritual Origins of Eastern
        > > Europe...*
        > >
        > > From "The Spiritual Configuration of Europe",
        > > i.e. Chapter 16 of *Crisis*:
        > > <http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1105/SpiritualEurope.htm>
        > >
        > > "These are in a very condensed form some of the
        > > essential elements of the methodology of modern
        > > politology. Anyone who does not master them is
        > > given over to empty quarrels and enmities. But
        > > those whose sense of national self-worth is
        > > undermined by the development of the actual
        > > state of affairs can merely be told: Have
        > > patience, the time will come when Germany will
        > > fulfil its cultural-historical task, and then
        > > retire into the background and make way for
        > > others. But God grant that the latter does not
        > > happen today. For this would mean that the
        > > secret societies of the West would have
        > > succeeding in diverting the cultural impulse
        > > before its meeting with the Spirit Self, in
        > > forcing it further westwards. In this case one
        > > would have succeeded in making the fifth
        > > cultural epoch, in which the Anglo-Saxon race -
        > > with full justification - plays a leading rôle,
        > > eternal in a certain sense, in endowing it with
        > > a peculiar ahrimanic immortality. If this were
        > > to happen - says Rudolf Steiner - the sixth
        > > cultural epoch would indeed begin, but it would
        > > be transposed to South America and take effect
        > > only in a modified form. It would then come
        > > into contradiction with the spiritual laws of
        > > earth and cosmos. Only the human beings with
        > > the greatest strength of spirit would be able
        > > to attain the Spirit Self individually, through
        > > efforts having the character of an initiation.
        > > As to the rest of the inhabitants of the earth,
        > > their fate would veritably be a 'gnashing of
        > > teeth'. The emergence of the evil race, as
        > > prophesied in the Apocalypse, would move
        > > forward at an accelerated pace. The black-
        > > magical Mysteries of Taotl would come to life
        > > with renewed force."
        > >
        > > Hope this helps,
        > >
        > > Robert M
        >
        > Robert,
        >
        > Don't know if Bondy recognized G & O, but Michael certainly did.
        > 1915 in order to thwart the South American influence, which the
        > german aryans wanted to place even as far back as 1889 with the
        > Forester's, Bernhard and Elizabeth. Paraguay was the place for
        this
        > settlement, and it truly represented the precursor to an ideal of a
        > failed sixth cultural epoch in the fifth. Bernhard Forester
        > committed suicide when his plan failed, and Nietzsche lived through
        > the supports provided by Schopenauer and Wagner.
        >
        > And that is how Adolf Hitler was born!. Said before, and will say
        > again if anybody is interested.
        >
        > Steve
        >
      • Robert Mason
        ... this ... Sorry, Steve, but I don t understand much of this. I know a little about Bernhard Förster:
        Message 3 of 28 , Oct 3, 2008
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          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
          <sardisian01@...> wrote:
          > Don't know if Bondy recognized G & O, but Michael certainly did.
          > 1915 in order to thwart the South American influence, which the
          > german aryans wanted to place even as far back as 1889 with the
          > Forester's, Bernhard and Elizabeth. Paraguay was the place for
          this
          > settlement, and it truly represented the precursor to an ideal of a
          > failed sixth cultural epoch in the fifth. Bernhard Forester
          > committed suicide when his plan failed, and Nietzsche lived through
          > the supports provided by Schopenauer and Wagner.
          >
          > And that is how Adolf Hitler was born!. Said before, and will say
          > again if anybody is interested.

          Sorry, Steve, but I don't understand much of
          this. I know a little about Bernhard Förster:
          <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Förster>
          <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueva_Germania>
          -- but I don't know what you mean by *G&O*,
          nor what that has to do with Michael, 1915,
          or the birth of Hitler. I suppose I get the
          connection between Proky and the premature
          6th Epoch, but I doubt that he was *advocating*
          the transfer of the center of the 6th from
          Russia to South America. But I don't have
          the book and so don't have his exact words.

          Robert M
        • Stephen Hale
          ... a ... through ... say ... I think we both agree that Bondarev envisioned that a premature entry of the sixth cultural epoch would be centered in South
          Message 4 of 28 , Oct 3, 2008
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            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Mason"
            <robertsmason_99@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
            > <sardisian01@> wrote:
            > > Don't know if Bondy recognized G & O, but Michael certainly did.
            > > 1915 in order to thwart the South American influence, which the
            > > german aryans wanted to place even as far back as 1889 with the
            > > Forester's, Bernhard and Elizabeth. Paraguay was the place for
            > this
            > > settlement, and it truly represented the precursor to an ideal of
            a
            > > failed sixth cultural epoch in the fifth. Bernhard Forester
            > > committed suicide when his plan failed, and Nietzsche lived
            through
            > > the supports provided by Schopenauer and Wagner.
            > >
            > > And that is how Adolf Hitler was born!. Said before, and will
            say
            > > again if anybody is interested.
            >
            > Sorry, Steve, but I don't understand much of
            > this. I know a little about Bernhard Förster:
            > <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Förster>
            > <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueva_Germania>
            > -- but I don't know what you mean by *G&O*,
            > nor what that has to do with Michael, 1915,
            > or the birth of Hitler. I suppose I get the
            > connection between Proky and the premature
            > 6th Epoch, but I doubt that he was *advocating*
            > the transfer of the center of the 6th from
            > Russia to South America. But I don't have
            > the book and so don't have his exact words.
            >
            > Robert M

            I think we both agree that Bondarev envisioned that a premature entry
            of the sixth cultural epoch would be centered in South America, and
            this is quite evident with the aims of the National Socialists of
            Germany. By referring to Nietzsche's sister and her very chauvinist
            husband, we can get a very early grasp of a failed plan as far back
            as 1889.

            Prokofieff is the advocate of a premature instreaming of the sixth
            cultural epoch into the fifth through the 'idea' of the Being
            Anthroposophia. We have both engaged in heavy battle concerning the
            advocacy of this, coming from a certain quarter of the
            anthroposophical movement which seems to be centered here in America.

            My research indicates that Prokofieff was, indeed, a product of the
            western formulation of anthroposophy, and that he and Irina Gordienko
            actually had an intimate relationship prior to the writing of her
            book.

            As for G & O, that is the *real* Russian response to Michael's call
            to the Russian Folk Soul back in 1915, when the young etheric bodies
            stood before the vault.

            Steve
          • Stephen Hale
            ... why ... left ... between ... the ... instance ... stream, ... up ... The ... ancient ... himself ... the ... It is the body going into the ground that
            Message 5 of 28 , Oct 3, 2008
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              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
              <sardisian01@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Mikko Nuuttila <bellmeine@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > The Christ yelled on the cross, Eli, eli lama sabachthani, God,
              why
              > hast thou forsaken me? In Mayan, these same words mean that he has
              > been immersed in light. Steiner says that on saying these words,
              > Christ became just a physical body and his etheric body left him.
              > Studying these same words in Mayan, we realize that these words
              > heralded Christ's becoming a light body physically when he later
              left
              > the Earth in a cloud. I wonder if there are more correlations
              between
              > Aramaic and Mayan or Hebrew and Mayan. The Mayan elder Hunbatz Men
              > records for instance that ATAN (Adam) is woman in Mayan and I think
              > he also said that EVA means human but I'm not totally sure about
              the
              > last point. Steiner had bad things to say about Mexico, for
              instance
              > that they crucified a person upside down at the same time as Jesus
              > was crucified on Golgotha. Perhaps so, but Mayan and Toltec
              > spirituality has yet to be integrated into the anthroposophic
              stream,
              > it is not just bad things alone. I also wonder if Steiner had
              > anything to say about South America, I've never seen any text like
              > that.
              > > Mikko
              >
              >
              > Consider that we are ourselves the 'source of light' that streams
              up
              > to meet, half-way, the great Sun Logos which reflects down as the
              > physical globe of gas known to the astrophysicists and astronomers.
              >
              > We are not only NOT forsaken, we stream the message down itself.
              The
              > message is: My Kingdom Is Not of This Earth. Thus, the ancient
              > mysteries have been resolved in the Mystery of Golgotha.
              >
              > Did Maurice Cotterell understand this in his aim to exalt the
              ancient
              > mysteries? Do YOU undertstand this? Did he understand this
              himself
              > as a translator of the works of Rudolf Steiner?
              >
              > According to Steiner, many wanted to remain closely connected to
              the
              > ancient mysteries even while they translated his writings from the
              > German.


              It is the body going into the ground that makes for *Us* being the
              source of light that streams up to the Sun Logos. Jesus never gets
              credit for that. It's all about Christ ascending into the sky and
              disappearing into the clouds.

              I once talked to some friends about the historical resurrection of
              Jesus, and how the body had gone into the ground after an eclipse and
              an earthquake, and they branded me a heretic. I thought that *that*
              was common knowledge. Nope.

              Apparently, fundamentalists truly believe that when Thomas had to
              have proof that Jesus had resurrected that He said: "Place your
              fingers in these wounds and see". And Thomas exclaimed: "My Lord, My
              God!"

              And this meant a physical resurrection. This is what the
              fundamentalists of all the denominations believe, to this day.

              Steve
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