Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: The Physical Christ

Expand Messages
  • Robert Mason
    ... for instance that they crucified a person upside down at the same time as Jesus was crucified on Golgotha.
    Message 1 of 28 , Oct 2, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      To Mikko, who wrote:

      >>Steiner had bad things to say about Mexico,
      for instance that they crucified a person
      upside down at the same time as Jesus was
      crucified on Golgotha.<<

      Robert writes:

      That particular crucifixion (not upside down,
      as far as I recall) wasn't really the "bad
      thing"; rather, it was the "good thing" in that
      story: the defeat of the greatest (i.e. worst)
      black magician. See the cycle *Inner Impulses
      of Evolution*:
      <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/InnerImpul/InnImp_index.html>

      Mikko wrote:

      >>I also wonder if Steiner had anything to say
      about South America, I've never seen any text
      like that.<<

      Robert writes:

      He did indeed say something about South
      America, but I don't have the citation. I
      vaguely recall that Steiner may have said
      something to the effect that the religious
      soul-configuration of the people in South
      America is similar to that of the people in
      Eastern Europe, and that this was one reason
      why the Jesuits, who had some occult insight
      into these facts and the possible course of
      future evolution in the Sixth Epoch, sought to
      establish themselves in a strong position in
      South America -- e.g. in their soul-numbing
      polity in Paraguay. But again, I don't have
      Steiner's exact words or the reference.

      In *The Crisis Of Civilization* the
      excommunicated Russian Anthroposophist Gennady
      Bondarev says:

      ". . . it {the Jesuit polity in Paraguay} was
      black magic practised on the scale of an entire
      state, putting man into the condition of
      group-soul of that far distant epoch in which
      he was not yet man, but man-animal. The same
      experiment, we may add, is done in Russia."
      [p. 45]

      Bondarev considers the 6th Epoch to be more a
      "German-Slavic" epoch, since (he argues)
      rightful social evolution can happen only if
      the Mid-European cultural tasks of social *I*-
      development come to fruition and are passed on
      to the East. Steiner says that the Germans are
      the avant-garde of the sixth sub-race (GA264).
      The true German culture comes to expression in
      Idealism, Goetheanism, Anthroposophy, and
      Social Threefolding. It has been the aim, all
      too successful, of evil occult-political forces
      in the 20th Century to crush the Germans and
      the East Slavs, to prevent the right evolution
      toward the 6th Epoch, which should be led (in a
      way) by the East Slavs. If these evil designs
      succeed, the 6th Epoch would then be centered
      in South America, but would be maimed and
      distorted, and the Spirit Self will not descend
      in the way intended for progressive evolution.
      -- Bondarev does not give a citation of Steiner
      for this last point, but I think Prokofieff
      might, in his *Spiritual Origins of Eastern
      Europe...*

      From "The Spiritual Configuration of Europe",
      i.e. Chapter 16 of *Crisis*:
      <http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1105/SpiritualEurope.htm>

      "These are in a very condensed form some of the
      essential elements of the methodology of modern
      politology. Anyone who does not master them is
      given over to empty quarrels and enmities. But
      those whose sense of national self-worth is
      undermined by the development of the actual
      state of affairs can merely be told: Have
      patience, the time will come when Germany will
      fulfil its cultural-historical task, and then
      retire into the background and make way for
      others. But God grant that the latter does not
      happen today. For this would mean that the
      secret societies of the West would have
      succeeding in diverting the cultural impulse
      before its meeting with the Spirit Self, in
      forcing it further westwards. In this case one
      would have succeeded in making the fifth
      cultural epoch, in which the Anglo-Saxon race -
      with full justification - plays a leading rôle,
      eternal in a certain sense, in endowing it with
      a peculiar ahrimanic immortality. If this were
      to happen - says Rudolf Steiner - the sixth
      cultural epoch would indeed begin, but it would
      be transposed to South America and take effect
      only in a modified form. It would then come
      into contradiction with the spiritual laws of
      earth and cosmos. Only the human beings with
      the greatest strength of spirit would be able
      to attain the Spirit Self individually, through
      efforts having the character of an initiation.
      As to the rest of the inhabitants of the earth,
      their fate would veritably be a 'gnashing of
      teeth'. The emergence of the evil race, as
      prophesied in the Apocalypse, would move
      forward at an accelerated pace. The black-
      magical Mysteries of Taotl would come to life
      with renewed force."

      Hope this helps,

      Robert M
    • Stephen Hale
      ... Robert, Don t know if Bondy recognized G & O, but Michael certainly did. 1915 in order to thwart the South American influence, which the german aryans
      Message 2 of 28 , Oct 2, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mason
        <robertsmason_99@...> wrote:
        >
        > To Mikko, who wrote:
        >
        > >>Steiner had bad things to say about Mexico,
        > for instance that they crucified a person
        > upside down at the same time as Jesus was
        > crucified on Golgotha.<<
        >
        > Robert writes:
        >
        > That particular crucifixion (not upside down,
        > as far as I recall) wasn't really the "bad
        > thing"; rather, it was the "good thing" in that
        > story: the defeat of the greatest (i.e. worst)
        > black magician. See the cycle *Inner Impulses
        > of Evolution*:
        > <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/InnerImpul/InnImp_index.html>
        >
        > Mikko wrote:
        >
        > >>I also wonder if Steiner had anything to say
        > about South America, I've never seen any text
        > like that.<<
        >
        > Robert writes:
        >
        > He did indeed say something about South
        > America, but I don't have the citation. I
        > vaguely recall that Steiner may have said
        > something to the effect that the religious
        > soul-configuration of the people in South
        > America is similar to that of the people in
        > Eastern Europe, and that this was one reason
        > why the Jesuits, who had some occult insight
        > into these facts and the possible course of
        > future evolution in the Sixth Epoch, sought to
        > establish themselves in a strong position in
        > South America -- e.g. in their soul-numbing
        > polity in Paraguay. But again, I don't have
        > Steiner's exact words or the reference.
        >
        > In *The Crisis Of Civilization* the
        > excommunicated Russian Anthroposophist Gennady
        > Bondarev says:
        >
        > ". . . it {the Jesuit polity in Paraguay} was
        > black magic practised on the scale of an entire
        > state, putting man into the condition of
        > group-soul of that far distant epoch in which
        > he was not yet man, but man-animal. The same
        > experiment, we may add, is done in Russia."
        > [p. 45]
        >
        > Bondarev considers the 6th Epoch to be more a
        > "German-Slavic" epoch, since (he argues)
        > rightful social evolution can happen only if
        > the Mid-European cultural tasks of social *I*-
        > development come to fruition and are passed on
        > to the East. Steiner says that the Germans are
        > the avant-garde of the sixth sub-race (GA264).
        > The true German culture comes to expression in
        > Idealism, Goetheanism, Anthroposophy, and
        > Social Threefolding. It has been the aim, all
        > too successful, of evil occult-political forces
        > in the 20th Century to crush the Germans and
        > the East Slavs, to prevent the right evolution
        > toward the 6th Epoch, which should be led (in a
        > way) by the East Slavs. If these evil designs
        > succeed, the 6th Epoch would then be centered
        > in South America, but would be maimed and
        > distorted, and the Spirit Self will not descend
        > in the way intended for progressive evolution.
        > -- Bondarev does not give a citation of Steiner
        > for this last point, but I think Prokofieff
        > might, in his *Spiritual Origins of Eastern
        > Europe...*
        >
        > From "The Spiritual Configuration of Europe",
        > i.e. Chapter 16 of *Crisis*:
        > <http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1105/SpiritualEurope.htm>
        >
        > "These are in a very condensed form some of the
        > essential elements of the methodology of modern
        > politology. Anyone who does not master them is
        > given over to empty quarrels and enmities. But
        > those whose sense of national self-worth is
        > undermined by the development of the actual
        > state of affairs can merely be told: Have
        > patience, the time will come when Germany will
        > fulfil its cultural-historical task, and then
        > retire into the background and make way for
        > others. But God grant that the latter does not
        > happen today. For this would mean that the
        > secret societies of the West would have
        > succeeding in diverting the cultural impulse
        > before its meeting with the Spirit Self, in
        > forcing it further westwards. In this case one
        > would have succeeded in making the fifth
        > cultural epoch, in which the Anglo-Saxon race -
        > with full justification - plays a leading rôle,
        > eternal in a certain sense, in endowing it with
        > a peculiar ahrimanic immortality. If this were
        > to happen - says Rudolf Steiner - the sixth
        > cultural epoch would indeed begin, but it would
        > be transposed to South America and take effect
        > only in a modified form. It would then come
        > into contradiction with the spiritual laws of
        > earth and cosmos. Only the human beings with
        > the greatest strength of spirit would be able
        > to attain the Spirit Self individually, through
        > efforts having the character of an initiation.
        > As to the rest of the inhabitants of the earth,
        > their fate would veritably be a 'gnashing of
        > teeth'. The emergence of the evil race, as
        > prophesied in the Apocalypse, would move
        > forward at an accelerated pace. The black-
        > magical Mysteries of Taotl would come to life
        > with renewed force."
        >
        > Hope this helps,
        >
        > Robert M

        Robert,

        Don't know if Bondy recognized G & O, but Michael certainly did.
        1915 in order to thwart the South American influence, which the
        german aryans wanted to place even as far back as 1889 with the
        Forester's, Bernhard and Elizabeth. Paraguay was the place for this
        settlement, and it truly represented the precursor to an ideal of a
        failed sixth cultural epoch in the fifth. Bernhard Forester
        committed suicide when his plan failed, and Nietzsche lived through
        the supports provided by Schopenauer and Wagner.

        And that is how Adolf Hitler was born!. Said before, and will say
        again if anybody is interested.

        Steve
      • Stephen Hale
        Also, isn t it interesting that the author s foreward to the book allegedly written by Irina Gordienko states quite emphatically very early in this treatise
        Message 3 of 28 , Oct 2, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Also, isn't it interesting that the author's foreward to the book
          allegedly written by Irina Gordienko states quite emphatically very
          early in this treatise that Prokofieff was a complete product of the
          west? This assertion apparently comes from the Wimbauer book of
          1995, but it, in fact, forms the entire formative structure of the
          book.

          Thus, Prokofieff, and the entire GAS which supposedly supports the
          anthroposophical movement today, is a product of western formulation,
          regardless of the spiritual configuration of eastern europe.

          I believe that *that* is the most important point. Selling out
          anthroposophy to South America in a premature effort to instream the
          sixth cultural epoch into the fifth. And, of course, Amnerica is
          behind it with its greedy plan of democratic territorial expansion
          under the auspices of the Monroe Doctrine.

          Also, a very unhealthy dose of extreme magnetism doesn't help the
          cause. We all have *that* fact to fight as the ahrimanic influence
          centered in the west that some want to extend throughout the entire
          world. No wonder Europe is pissed. It comes from the divisive
          layer, or eighth subearthly level where the asuras hold sway, and the
          occultists succeed in bringing to the surface. And these occultists
          represent the western brotherhood, which gets to be our destiny to
          explain and fight.

          Steve



          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
          <sardisian01@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mason
          > <robertsmason_99@> wrote:
          > >
          > > To Mikko, who wrote:
          > >
          > > >>Steiner had bad things to say about Mexico,
          > > for instance that they crucified a person
          > > upside down at the same time as Jesus was
          > > crucified on Golgotha.<<
          > >
          > > Robert writes:
          > >
          > > That particular crucifixion (not upside down,
          > > as far as I recall) wasn't really the "bad
          > > thing"; rather, it was the "good thing" in that
          > > story: the defeat of the greatest (i.e. worst)
          > > black magician. See the cycle *Inner Impulses
          > > of Evolution*:
          > > <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/InnerImpul/InnImp_index.html>
          > >
          > > Mikko wrote:
          > >
          > > >>I also wonder if Steiner had anything to say
          > > about South America, I've never seen any text
          > > like that.<<
          > >
          > > Robert writes:
          > >
          > > He did indeed say something about South
          > > America, but I don't have the citation. I
          > > vaguely recall that Steiner may have said
          > > something to the effect that the religious
          > > soul-configuration of the people in South
          > > America is similar to that of the people in
          > > Eastern Europe, and that this was one reason
          > > why the Jesuits, who had some occult insight
          > > into these facts and the possible course of
          > > future evolution in the Sixth Epoch, sought to
          > > establish themselves in a strong position in
          > > South America -- e.g. in their soul-numbing
          > > polity in Paraguay. But again, I don't have
          > > Steiner's exact words or the reference.
          > >
          > > In *The Crisis Of Civilization* the
          > > excommunicated Russian Anthroposophist Gennady
          > > Bondarev says:
          > >
          > > ". . . it {the Jesuit polity in Paraguay} was
          > > black magic practised on the scale of an entire
          > > state, putting man into the condition of
          > > group-soul of that far distant epoch in which
          > > he was not yet man, but man-animal. The same
          > > experiment, we may add, is done in Russia."
          > > [p. 45]
          > >
          > > Bondarev considers the 6th Epoch to be more a
          > > "German-Slavic" epoch, since (he argues)
          > > rightful social evolution can happen only if
          > > the Mid-European cultural tasks of social *I*-
          > > development come to fruition and are passed on
          > > to the East. Steiner says that the Germans are
          > > the avant-garde of the sixth sub-race (GA264).
          > > The true German culture comes to expression in
          > > Idealism, Goetheanism, Anthroposophy, and
          > > Social Threefolding. It has been the aim, all
          > > too successful, of evil occult-political forces
          > > in the 20th Century to crush the Germans and
          > > the East Slavs, to prevent the right evolution
          > > toward the 6th Epoch, which should be led (in a
          > > way) by the East Slavs. If these evil designs
          > > succeed, the 6th Epoch would then be centered
          > > in South America, but would be maimed and
          > > distorted, and the Spirit Self will not descend
          > > in the way intended for progressive evolution.
          > > -- Bondarev does not give a citation of Steiner
          > > for this last point, but I think Prokofieff
          > > might, in his *Spiritual Origins of Eastern
          > > Europe...*
          > >
          > > From "The Spiritual Configuration of Europe",
          > > i.e. Chapter 16 of *Crisis*:
          > > <http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1105/SpiritualEurope.htm>
          > >
          > > "These are in a very condensed form some of the
          > > essential elements of the methodology of modern
          > > politology. Anyone who does not master them is
          > > given over to empty quarrels and enmities. But
          > > those whose sense of national self-worth is
          > > undermined by the development of the actual
          > > state of affairs can merely be told: Have
          > > patience, the time will come when Germany will
          > > fulfil its cultural-historical task, and then
          > > retire into the background and make way for
          > > others. But God grant that the latter does not
          > > happen today. For this would mean that the
          > > secret societies of the West would have
          > > succeeding in diverting the cultural impulse
          > > before its meeting with the Spirit Self, in
          > > forcing it further westwards. In this case one
          > > would have succeeded in making the fifth
          > > cultural epoch, in which the Anglo-Saxon race -
          > > with full justification - plays a leading rôle,
          > > eternal in a certain sense, in endowing it with
          > > a peculiar ahrimanic immortality. If this were
          > > to happen - says Rudolf Steiner - the sixth
          > > cultural epoch would indeed begin, but it would
          > > be transposed to South America and take effect
          > > only in a modified form. It would then come
          > > into contradiction with the spiritual laws of
          > > earth and cosmos. Only the human beings with
          > > the greatest strength of spirit would be able
          > > to attain the Spirit Self individually, through
          > > efforts having the character of an initiation.
          > > As to the rest of the inhabitants of the earth,
          > > their fate would veritably be a 'gnashing of
          > > teeth'. The emergence of the evil race, as
          > > prophesied in the Apocalypse, would move
          > > forward at an accelerated pace. The black-
          > > magical Mysteries of Taotl would come to life
          > > with renewed force."
          > >
          > > Hope this helps,
          > >
          > > Robert M
          >
          > Robert,
          >
          > Don't know if Bondy recognized G & O, but Michael certainly did.
          > 1915 in order to thwart the South American influence, which the
          > german aryans wanted to place even as far back as 1889 with the
          > Forester's, Bernhard and Elizabeth. Paraguay was the place for
          this
          > settlement, and it truly represented the precursor to an ideal of a
          > failed sixth cultural epoch in the fifth. Bernhard Forester
          > committed suicide when his plan failed, and Nietzsche lived through
          > the supports provided by Schopenauer and Wagner.
          >
          > And that is how Adolf Hitler was born!. Said before, and will say
          > again if anybody is interested.
          >
          > Steve
          >
        • Robert Mason
          ... this ... Sorry, Steve, but I don t understand much of this. I know a little about Bernhard Förster:
          Message 4 of 28 , Oct 3, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
            <sardisian01@...> wrote:
            > Don't know if Bondy recognized G & O, but Michael certainly did.
            > 1915 in order to thwart the South American influence, which the
            > german aryans wanted to place even as far back as 1889 with the
            > Forester's, Bernhard and Elizabeth. Paraguay was the place for
            this
            > settlement, and it truly represented the precursor to an ideal of a
            > failed sixth cultural epoch in the fifth. Bernhard Forester
            > committed suicide when his plan failed, and Nietzsche lived through
            > the supports provided by Schopenauer and Wagner.
            >
            > And that is how Adolf Hitler was born!. Said before, and will say
            > again if anybody is interested.

            Sorry, Steve, but I don't understand much of
            this. I know a little about Bernhard Förster:
            <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Förster>
            <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueva_Germania>
            -- but I don't know what you mean by *G&O*,
            nor what that has to do with Michael, 1915,
            or the birth of Hitler. I suppose I get the
            connection between Proky and the premature
            6th Epoch, but I doubt that he was *advocating*
            the transfer of the center of the 6th from
            Russia to South America. But I don't have
            the book and so don't have his exact words.

            Robert M
          • Stephen Hale
            ... a ... through ... say ... I think we both agree that Bondarev envisioned that a premature entry of the sixth cultural epoch would be centered in South
            Message 5 of 28 , Oct 3, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Mason"
              <robertsmason_99@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
              > <sardisian01@> wrote:
              > > Don't know if Bondy recognized G & O, but Michael certainly did.
              > > 1915 in order to thwart the South American influence, which the
              > > german aryans wanted to place even as far back as 1889 with the
              > > Forester's, Bernhard and Elizabeth. Paraguay was the place for
              > this
              > > settlement, and it truly represented the precursor to an ideal of
              a
              > > failed sixth cultural epoch in the fifth. Bernhard Forester
              > > committed suicide when his plan failed, and Nietzsche lived
              through
              > > the supports provided by Schopenauer and Wagner.
              > >
              > > And that is how Adolf Hitler was born!. Said before, and will
              say
              > > again if anybody is interested.
              >
              > Sorry, Steve, but I don't understand much of
              > this. I know a little about Bernhard Förster:
              > <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Förster>
              > <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueva_Germania>
              > -- but I don't know what you mean by *G&O*,
              > nor what that has to do with Michael, 1915,
              > or the birth of Hitler. I suppose I get the
              > connection between Proky and the premature
              > 6th Epoch, but I doubt that he was *advocating*
              > the transfer of the center of the 6th from
              > Russia to South America. But I don't have
              > the book and so don't have his exact words.
              >
              > Robert M

              I think we both agree that Bondarev envisioned that a premature entry
              of the sixth cultural epoch would be centered in South America, and
              this is quite evident with the aims of the National Socialists of
              Germany. By referring to Nietzsche's sister and her very chauvinist
              husband, we can get a very early grasp of a failed plan as far back
              as 1889.

              Prokofieff is the advocate of a premature instreaming of the sixth
              cultural epoch into the fifth through the 'idea' of the Being
              Anthroposophia. We have both engaged in heavy battle concerning the
              advocacy of this, coming from a certain quarter of the
              anthroposophical movement which seems to be centered here in America.

              My research indicates that Prokofieff was, indeed, a product of the
              western formulation of anthroposophy, and that he and Irina Gordienko
              actually had an intimate relationship prior to the writing of her
              book.

              As for G & O, that is the *real* Russian response to Michael's call
              to the Russian Folk Soul back in 1915, when the young etheric bodies
              stood before the vault.

              Steve
            • Stephen Hale
              ... why ... left ... between ... the ... instance ... stream, ... up ... The ... ancient ... himself ... the ... It is the body going into the ground that
              Message 6 of 28 , Oct 3, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Mikko Nuuttila <bellmeine@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > The Christ yelled on the cross, Eli, eli lama sabachthani, God,
                why
                > hast thou forsaken me? In Mayan, these same words mean that he has
                > been immersed in light. Steiner says that on saying these words,
                > Christ became just a physical body and his etheric body left him.
                > Studying these same words in Mayan, we realize that these words
                > heralded Christ's becoming a light body physically when he later
                left
                > the Earth in a cloud. I wonder if there are more correlations
                between
                > Aramaic and Mayan or Hebrew and Mayan. The Mayan elder Hunbatz Men
                > records for instance that ATAN (Adam) is woman in Mayan and I think
                > he also said that EVA means human but I'm not totally sure about
                the
                > last point. Steiner had bad things to say about Mexico, for
                instance
                > that they crucified a person upside down at the same time as Jesus
                > was crucified on Golgotha. Perhaps so, but Mayan and Toltec
                > spirituality has yet to be integrated into the anthroposophic
                stream,
                > it is not just bad things alone. I also wonder if Steiner had
                > anything to say about South America, I've never seen any text like
                > that.
                > > Mikko
                >
                >
                > Consider that we are ourselves the 'source of light' that streams
                up
                > to meet, half-way, the great Sun Logos which reflects down as the
                > physical globe of gas known to the astrophysicists and astronomers.
                >
                > We are not only NOT forsaken, we stream the message down itself.
                The
                > message is: My Kingdom Is Not of This Earth. Thus, the ancient
                > mysteries have been resolved in the Mystery of Golgotha.
                >
                > Did Maurice Cotterell understand this in his aim to exalt the
                ancient
                > mysteries? Do YOU undertstand this? Did he understand this
                himself
                > as a translator of the works of Rudolf Steiner?
                >
                > According to Steiner, many wanted to remain closely connected to
                the
                > ancient mysteries even while they translated his writings from the
                > German.


                It is the body going into the ground that makes for *Us* being the
                source of light that streams up to the Sun Logos. Jesus never gets
                credit for that. It's all about Christ ascending into the sky and
                disappearing into the clouds.

                I once talked to some friends about the historical resurrection of
                Jesus, and how the body had gone into the ground after an eclipse and
                an earthquake, and they branded me a heretic. I thought that *that*
                was common knowledge. Nope.

                Apparently, fundamentalists truly believe that when Thomas had to
                have proof that Jesus had resurrected that He said: "Place your
                fingers in these wounds and see". And Thomas exclaimed: "My Lord, My
                God!"

                And this meant a physical resurrection. This is what the
                fundamentalists of all the denominations believe, to this day.

                Steve
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.