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Re: Seeking Insight RE: Karma and Reincarnation

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  • carynmayo@msn.com
    Hi-- I am new to this list. This post caught my attention... I too have done extensive past life recall--through dreams and meditations, etc. and have come to
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 20, 2001
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      Hi--

      I am new to this list. This post caught my attention...
      I too have done extensive past life recall--through dreams and
      meditations, etc. and have come to realize that many of us have been
      here more than once evey 1,000 years.

      I, like the woman who mentioned that she was Anne Frank in a past
      life, only to return 11 years later in this life, have had past lives
      that are a mere 8-10 years difference from the end of one to the
      beginning to another. Both of those lives were significant, although
      I am still trying to find the exact significance of the later
      lifetime.

      To introduce myself---
      I am a graduate of a Waldorf highschool in the USA, and just recenly
      have returned there as an employee working in the administration. It
      is a wonderful experience and something that is really become a great
      importance to my life and my spiritual work. I am looking forward to
      learning and sharing with you all.

      Peace!
      Caryn

      --- In anthroposophy@y..., starmann77@a... wrote:
      > JadMcCurdy@a... writes:
      > << I have a strong sense that I lived a life during the 19th
      Century. In
      > Steiner's lecture series "Life Between Death and Rebirth" he
      suggests that
      > the soul tends to incarnate once every one thousand years. However,
      from what
      > I gather from my studies (Steiner and otherwise) it seems the soul
      can, in
      > fact, return to the earth in shorter intervals if
      > attracted strongly enough. For example, a woman has recently
      published an
      > Anthroposophical book in which she reveals her previous incarnation
      to have
      > been that of Anne Frank. This woman was born in about 1955, only
      eleven years
      > after Frank's death.
      > My heart is more than willing to accept the idea that I lived
      previously in
      > the 19th Century, but my mind reserves a tiny sliver of skepticism.
      >>
      >
      > *******Steiner was speaking of the past---he also said the interval
      had
      > already sped up---and also of those he experienced, people in
      Central Europe.
      > In America and in the Eastern Hemisphere, there are numerous
      instances of
      > rapid reincarnation, even instant. Also, the laws of karma are
      capable of
      > infinite flexibility to suit individual needs. Those souls that
      needed to be
      > in the twentieth century but had their lives cut short not by
      natural
      > disaters but by Man's doing, by war, came back very quickly.
      Steiner said
      > much more about these many adjustments in the ways of Karma than
      just a
      > general statement about a 1000-year interval.
      >
      > Starman
    • john.shirtliff
      Jeff, Apologies for the delay, and I haven t found precisely what I was looking for in the Karmic Relationships lectures but this is a similar approach: From:
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 23, 2001
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        Jeff,
         
        Apologies for the delay, and I haven't found precisely what I was looking for in the Karmic Relationships lectures but this is a similar approach:
         

        From: Intimate workings of Karma, Vienna 9 February 1912

        Contained in 'Esoteric Christianity and the mission of Christian Rosencreutz.,Rudolf Steiner Press London UK.

        "We will proceed in a rather curious way. As an experiment, we will imagine that we ourselves have willed whatever may have happened to us. Suppose a loose tile from the roof of a house happened to crash down upon us. We will picture, purely by way of experiment, that this did not happen by chance, and will deliberately imagine that we ourselves climbed on that roof, loosened the tile and then ran down so quickly that we arrived just in time to be hit by it! Like the unfortunate lady who, being discontented with her lot, exposed herself to a chill and died of it! In this way, therefore we will imagine that things otherwise attributable to chance have been deliberately and carefully planned by ourselves. And we will also apply the same procedures to matters which are obviously dependent upon the faculties and qualities we happen to possess. Say some arrangement does not work out as planned. If we miss a train, for example, we shall not blame external circumstances but picture to ourselves that it was due to our own slackness. If we think in this way, as an experiment, we shall gradually succeed in creating a kind of being in our imagination, a very extraordinary being, who was responsible for these things - for a stone to have fallen upon us, for some illness, and so forth. We shall realise, of course, that this being is not ourselves; we simply picture such a being vividly and distinctly. And then, after a time, we will have a strange experience in connection with this being. We shall realise that though it is a creature we have only conjured up, yet we cannot free ourselves from him nor from the thought of him, and strange to say he does not stay as he is; he becomes alive and transforms himself within us. And then, when he has gone through this transformation, we get the impression that he is really there within us, And then we become more and more certain that we ourselves have had something to do with the things we constructed in imagination. There is no suggestion whatever that we once actually did them; but such thoughts do, nevertheless, correspond in a certain way with something we have done. We shall tell ourselves: 'I have done this and that, and I am now having to suffer the consequences'. This is a very good exercise for unfolding in the life of feeling a kind of memory of earlier incarnations. The soul seems to feel: 'I myself was there and prepared these things for myself'.

        You will readily understand that is it not easy to awaken the memory of previous incarnations. For just think what mental effort is required to recall something only recently forgotten; genuine mental effort is required. Experiences which occurred in previous incarnations have sunk into the depths of forgetfulness and much has to be done if they are to be remembered. One such exercise has just been described."

        Regards,

        John

         

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: jeff auen
        Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 5:35 PM
        Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Seeking Insight RE: Karma and Reincarnation

        It tough for me to freak out about anything anymore and this is mild. When one considers the entire population of the earth throughout history, it would not reach even 1 billion progressively. Most of these souls were reincarnated but there is not accounting for the billions now on earth unless we consider most of them being held out of incarnation for thousands of years and they are now here to experience this turning point in evolution.
         
        I find it interesting that past life review is so simple. I am not being facetious but after many years of the review experience and work , flashing images and feelings about time and places doesn't impress me much. True past life recall must be fuller and more panoramic with clear Egoic identification (much training) to that lifetime. Dream interludes can help if one prepares for it before sleep. I would be interested to hear generally (not about life specifics-too personal) about what you have accomplished and how.
         
        jeff
      • jeff auen
        Apologies for the delay, and I haven t found precisely what I was looking for in the Karmic Relationships lectures but this is a similar approach: From:
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 23, 2001
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          Apologies for the delay, and I haven't found precisely what I was looking for in the Karmic Relationships lectures but this is a similar approach:
           

          From: Intimate workings of Karma, Vienna 9 February 1912

          Contained in 'Esoteric Christianity and the mission of Christian Rosencreutz.,Rudolf Steiner Press London UK.

          "We will proceed in a rather curious way. As an experiment, we will imagine that we ourselves have willed whatever may have happened to us. Suppose a loose tile from the roof of a house happened to crash down upon us. We will picture, purely by way of experiment, that this did not happen by chance, and will deliberately imagine that we ourselves climbed on that roof, loosened the tile and then ran down so quickly that we arrived just in time to be hit by it! Like the unfortunate lady who, being discontented with her lot, exposed herself to a chill and died of it! In this way, therefore we will imagine that things otherwise attributable to chance have been deliberately and carefully planned by ourselves. And we will also apply the same procedures to matters which are obviously dependent upon the faculties and qualities we happen to possess. Say some arrangement does not work out as planned. If we miss a train, for example, we shall not blame external circumstances but picture to ourselves that it was due to our own slackness. If we think in this way, as an experiment, we shall gradually succeed in creating a kind of being in our imagination, a very extraordinary being, who was responsible for these things - for a stone to have fallen upon us, for some illness, and so forth. We shall realise, of course, that this being is not ourselves; we simply picture such a being vividly and distinctly. And then, after a time, we will have a strange experience in connection with this being. We shall realise that though it is a creature we have only conjured up, yet we cannot free ourselves from him nor from the thought of him, and strange to say he does not stay as he is; he becomes alive and transforms himself within us. And then, when he has gone through this transformation, we get the impression that he is really there within us, And then we become more and more certain that we ourselves have had something to do with the things we constructed in imagination. There is no suggestion whatever that we once actually did them; but such thoughts do, nevertheless, correspond in a certain way with something we have done. We shall tell ourselves: 'I have done this and that, and I am now having to suffer the consequences'. This is a very good exercise for unfolding in the life of feeling a kind of memory of earlier incarnations. The soul seems to feel: 'I myself was there and prepared these things for myself'.

          You will readily understand that is it not easy to awaken the memory of previous incarnations. For just think what mental effort is required to recall something only recently forgotten; genuine mental effort is required. Experiences which occurred in previous incarnations have sunk into the depths of forgetfulness and much has to be done if they are to be remembered. One such exercise has just been described."

          Regards,

          John

           

          Jeff:
          Good example. I recall RS using this in several places to illustrate the nature of our responsibility in karmic events. But notice the train example. Its our present day "slothfulness" that creates the missed train not some past karmic influence ( though at times this can be the case. I was driving once and in a particular mood of recalling something of the past day interactions with someone which in turn took my attention off the road. At that time, 1985 or so, I used to drive fairly fast on this local road but was slowed down by 5 or 10 mph. Just as I approached a familiar intersection, someone went through the stop sign and crossed the street just where I would have been had I been driving normally. I knew in an instant that this was no mistake but a inner protective process had prevented me from being hit. I am sure others have there own stories.)
           
          It surely seems that we create circumstances freely now and not just as the result of past lives. I still think we are woefully unprepared for truly knowing the details of past lives and karma as it would freeze us in time- being unable to deal with the positive or negative events about to happen. Just recently a young boy was riding his bike and for not reason (provocation) was attacked by 3 pit bulls and mangled beyond recognition. He is still clinging to life. For us to say, it was karmic may be correct but there is so much more to consider. And such an explanation would be shot down and brushed aside as an insult to conventional thinking. Do accidents occur??
           
          As for recall. I agree. Free floating access to these records just doesn't make sense. We can't even recall what we did during period of time five years ago less 500 hundreds. Vivid pictures of historical events does not preclude that this was us at that time. Where do these pictures come from? Good question.
           
           
          Jeff
           
        • john.shirtliff
          Jeff, It is my understanding of Steiner that it is our task or duty to get on with the exercises necessary to connect in waking day consciousness with the
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 26, 2001
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            Jeff,
             
            It is my understanding of Steiner that it is our task or duty to get on with the exercises necessary to connect in waking day consciousness with the spiritual world. The efforts required are, of necessity, strenuous, but no more than physical exercise.
             
            Regards,
             
            John.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: jeff auen
            Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 3:40 PM
            Subject: Re: [anthroposophy] Seeking Insight RE: Karma and Reincarnation

            Apologies for the delay, and I haven't found precisely what I was looking for in the Karmic Relationships lectures but this is a similar approach:
             

            From: Intimate workings of Karma, Vienna 9 February 1912

            Contained in 'Esoteric Christianity and the mission of Christian Rosencreutz.,Rudolf Steiner Press London UK.

            "We will proceed in a rather curious way. As an experiment, we will imagine that we ourselves have willed whatever may have happened to us. Suppose a loose tile from the roof of a house happened to crash down upon us. We will picture, purely by way of experiment, that this did not happen by chance, and will deliberately imagine that we ourselves climbed on that roof, loosened the tile and then ran down so quickly that we arrived just in time to be hit by it! Like the unfortunate lady who, being discontented with her lot, exposed herself to a chill and died of it! In this way, therefore we will imagine that things otherwise attributable to chance have been deliberately and carefully planned by ourselves. And we will also apply the same procedures to matters which are obviously dependent upon the faculties and qualities we happen to possess. Say some arrangement does not work out as planned. If we miss a train, for example, we shall not blame external circumstances but picture to ourselves that it was due to our own slackness. If we think in this way, as an experiment, we shall gradually succeed in creating a kind of being in our imagination, a very extraordinary being, who was responsible for these things - for a stone to have fallen upon us, for some illness, and so forth. We shall realise, of course, that this being is not ourselves; we simply picture such a being vividly and distinctly. And then, after a time, we will have a strange experience in connection with this being. We shall realise that though it is a creature we have only conjured up, yet we cannot free ourselves from him nor from the thought of him, and strange to say he does not stay as he is; he becomes alive and transforms himself within us. And then, when he has gone through this transformation, we get the impression that he is really there within us, And then we become more and more certain that we ourselves have had something to do with the things we constructed in imagination. There is no suggestion whatever that we once actually did them; but such thoughts do, nevertheless, correspond in a certain way with something we have done. We shall tell ourselves: 'I have done this and that, and I am now having to suffer the consequences'. This is a very good exercise for unfolding in the life of feeling a kind of memory of earlier incarnations. The soul seems to feel: 'I myself was there and prepared these things for myself'.

            You will readily understand that is it not easy to awaken the memory of previous incarnations. For just think what mental effort is required to recall something only recently forgotten; genuine mental effort is required. Experiences which occurred in previous incarnations have sunk into the depths of forgetfulness and much has to be done if they are to be remembered. One such exercise has just been described."

            Regards,

            John

             

            Jeff:
            Good example. I recall RS using this in several places to illustrate the nature of our responsibility in karmic events. But notice the train example. Its our present day "slothfulness" that creates the missed train not some past karmic influence ( though at times this can be the case. I was driving once and in a particular mood of recalling something of the past day interactions with someone which in turn took my attention off the road. At that time, 1985 or so, I used to drive fairly fast on this local road but was slowed down by 5 or 10 mph. Just as I approached a familiar intersection, someone went through the stop sign and crossed the street just where I would have been had I been driving normally. I knew in an instant that this was no mistake but a inner protective process had prevented me from being hit. I am sure others have there own stories.)
             
            It surely seems that we create circumstances freely now and not just as the result of past lives. I still think we are woefully unprepared for truly knowing the details of past lives and karma as it would freeze us in time- being unable to deal with the positive or negative events about to happen. Just recently a young boy was riding his bike and for not reason (provocation) was attacked by 3 pit bulls and mangled beyond recognition. He is still clinging to life. For us to say, it was karmic may be correct but there is so much more to consider. And such an explanation would be shot down and brushed aside as an insult to conventional thinking. Do accidents occur??
             
            As for recall. I agree. Free floating access to these records just doesn't make sense. We can't even recall what we did during period of time five years ago less 500 hundreds. Vivid pictures of historical events does not preclude that this was us at that time. Where do these pictures come from? Good question.
             
             
            Jeff
             


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          • jeff auen
            It is my understanding of Steiner that it is our task or duty to get on with the exercises necessary to connect in waking day consciousness with the spiritual
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 26, 2001
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              It is my understanding of Steiner that it is our task or duty to get on with the exercises necessary to connect in waking day consciousness with the spiritual world. The efforts required are, of necessity, strenuous, but no more than physical exercise.
               
              Regards,
               
              John.
               
               
               
              John,
               
              How I wish this were true. We have spoken about this "strenuous" path before in other groups but suffice it to say, I don't think its just about effort and duty or persistence. This recommendation can taken so glibly, so matter of fact, that it belies the real issue -
              total psycho-spiritual transformation and increased sensitivity/contact with psychic and spiritual forces around us and within. This is a major failing point in AP-we lack mentors  who have direct experience and who can assist people in the long and slow process of unfoldment. Though much takes place below consciousness for many, there are times and stages where they intrude and impact on daily life. One is on their own in dealing with these issues.Study groups do not truly deal with this. Reading metaphysics or discussing obtuse passages will not help. Maybe the new psychology movement within AP will address this as other paths have. And yes,we are encouraged to persist in our work but its nice to see some progress or shift in our soul life that may indicate that results are coming about.
               
              jeff
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