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Re: RS re Providence

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  • carol
    Robert: So, sometimes even Anthroposophical failures can be the right thing for the development of world-evolution . . . How about if they might be right
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 3, 2008

      Robert: "So, sometimes even Anthroposophical failures can be the "right thing" for the development of world-evolution . . ."

      How about if they might be 

      right for the human development of Anthroposophy, which itself expresses the consciousness soul age?

      It's funny, I was inspired to reflect on just this, this morning. My inspiration involved the 'idea' that RS would have been forced (because of the newness of the consiousness soul epoch) to present anthroposophy in a formula which still contained

      'fragments' belonging to the 4th cultural epoch- these fragmented spiritual forces would have been sought out in order to serve as necessary 'hooks' to secure the great many individuals karmically drawn to the movement, would remain attached to it- ex. the quality of initially receiving forces from outside of oneself, from the physical settings attached to the movement, from the Anthroposophic community, it's activities etc, from above (cosmic truths in writting), all of which would somehow harmoniously permit spiritual development to at least BEGIN to thrive within an awakened soul.

      (note:there would be no set rule as to which 'source' must absolutely be used)

      Only when this without/within process/bridge 'sufficiently worked itself' within the individual soul filled with hard pressed desire, would a more direct,

      more independent upward soul experience naturally become enabled.

      And whereby, an individual spiritualized soul can only truly begin to actively orient itself within the consciousness soul epoch when his/her soul is solidly anchored in spirit, in the physical organism, and where a direct 'reach' upwards (to spiritual heights) is secured because of enobled will forces..

      There were various personal observations which acted upon this reflection. One being the recent quote presented by Jean Marc in which Steiner would have been advised by Devachanic Beings that the humanity surrounding him seeking spiritual truths were of the likeness of 'children'.

      Another being the general frustration expressed by Tom in the past whereby he considered his years in which he depended upon the outward anthroposophic movement as 1 of his karmic 'fish bowls';  in addition to this, his stated position which resembled something to the effect that: Individual Anthroposophic experience must go through a process of death to be raised anew.

      Another observation taken into account was that of Judith von Halle. Again, I see an outward, downward spiritual influence (caracteristic of the 4th cultural epoch) now being greeted within 'her' soul with Anthropsopophic spiritual development which entails an exeptional ability to attach developed thought forms and concepts to her exceptional supersensible experience, as well in the mix,  the possibility of consciously raising her soul forces upwards.

      Then there is one my own experiences derived from occasional contacts with local Anthroposophists from which I observe, especially in some of the older ones, a faint 'soul' display of their early, sometimes lengthy and deep set attachment to 'physical' anthroposophic forms known by them through anthro community activities etc, which

      possibly risks presenting itself as something like an outward 'shell' surrounding the anthroposophic knowledge which they wish to express.  (perhaps it is an overly densified spirit force/being, perhaps a lingering unspiritualized luciferic element.)...

      All to say that inspite being 'involved' in 'world becoming'  Anthroposophy should alos be known as itself undergoing a  remarkable  'growth' process .

      Carol.

       

       

       


      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mason <robertsmason_99@...> wrote:
      >
      > To All:
      >
      > If we are inclined to despair at the way that
      > the world is going now, or especially at the
      > troubles and failures of the Anthro Movement
      > and Society(ies), we might wish to take a
      > moment at least to consider how Steiner had
      > "faith" in Providence, in the wise and loving
      > order that ultimately rules in the world,
      > despite appearances. RS did believe, with
      > Paul, that all things work together for good ..
      > . .
      >
      > In one instance he puts it this way, speaking
      > to Anthros about Anthroposophical efforts:
      >
      > ". . . . that spiritual forces hold sway in the
      > world, that they help us, that we may entrust
      > ourselves to them. And if sometimes it seems as
      > if things are not going well, then we say to
      > ourselves that if we are not successful it is
      > because the powers behind our activity do not
      > intend us to succeed, and not to succeed would
      > then be the right thing."
      > (*Wonders of the World*; Lecture 1; 18th
      > August, 1911; Munich; GA 129)
      >
      > So, sometimes even Anthroposophical failures
      > can be the "right thing" for the development of
      > world-evolution . . . in much the same way, I
      > suppose, as cancer can sometimes be the "right
      > thing" for an individual's development. Some
      > might express much the same thought by saying
      > that sometimes Divine Justice (which is Love's
      > Severity) requires that we, mankind, need to be
      > "punished" for our "sins".
      >
      > But this "punishment", rightly understood, is
      > education . . . the hard way.
      >
      > I'd still much rather that we learn our lessons
      > the easy way.
      >
      > Just a thought,
      >
      > Robert Mason
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________________________________________________________________________________
      > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
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      >
    • carynlouise24
      Once the thorn in the side; the claws of egotism; the irritating sleepers and the centre of what thinks itself to be world control is: a. Put in its place b.
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 4, 2008
        Once the thorn in the side; the claws of egotism; the irritating
        sleepers and the centre of what thinks itself to be world control is:

        a. Put in its place
        b. Re-cycled down the toilet
        c. Transformed

        We Anthro's can do what we love the best : study anthroposophy! As
        Bradford once said; we have so much learning ahead of us. This is so
        true – although it is very difficult to concentrate when there are
        irritating mosquitoes buzzing around the world isn't!

        I have this feeling there is a large contingency of Spiritual
        omnipresence taking keen interest in what is happening in the world.
        We know The High Boss of this Spiritual contingency controls both
        good and evil. One earthquake will make a world war look like an ant.

        As Friedrich Rittelmeyer said at the end of his so wonderfully
        written `Rudolf Steiner enters my life' …

        Anthroposophy will prevail. And this it will!

        Love to all the Anthro's.


        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mason
        robertsmason_99@...> wrote:

        To All:

        If we are inclined to despair at the way that
        the world is going now, or especially at the
        troubles and failures of the Anthro Movement
        and Society(ies), we might wish to take a
        moment at least to consider how Steiner had
        "faith" in Providence, in the wise and loving
        order that ultimately rules in the world,
        despite appearances. RS did believe, with
        Paul, that all things work together for good ..
        . .

        In one instance he puts it this way, speaking
        to Anthros about Anthroposophical efforts:

        ". . . . that spiritual forces hold sway in the
        world, that they help us, that we may entrust
        ourselves to them. And if sometimes it seems as
        if things are not going well, then we say to
        ourselves that if we are not successful it is
        because the powers behind our activity do not
        intend us to succeed, and not to succeed would
        then be the right thing."
        9*Wonders of the World*; Lecture 1; 18th
        (August, 1911; Munich; GA 129)

        So, sometimes even Anthroposophical failures
        can be the "right thing" for the development of
        world-evolution . . . in much the same way, I
        suppose, as cancer can sometimes be the "right
        thing" for an individual's development. Some
        might express much the same thought by saying
        that sometimes Divine Justice (which is Love's
        Severity) requires that we, mankind, need to be
        "punished" for our "sins".

        But this "punishment", rightly understood, is
        education . . . the hard way.

        I'd still much rather that we learn our lessons
        the easy way.

        Just a thought,

        Robert Mason
      • Robert Mason
        ... believe their despair (if any!) is and will be utterly legitimate and equitable --- as long as, individually and collectively, they cannot - in all
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 6, 2008
          Jean-Marc wrote:

          >>As far as the Anthros are concerned, I
          believe their "despair" (if any!) is and will
          be utterly legitimate and equitable --- as long
          as, individually and collectively, they cannot
          - in all conscience! - call the gods to witness
          that *they did what they had to do*...to the
          full extent of their capacities.

          >>For instance, Rudolf Steiner clearly said
          that the Second Coming of Christ was --- *the
          greatest event!* --- of the 20th century. To
          your knowledge, did myriads of Anthroposophists
          collectively manage to attain a clear, coherent
          and consensual, understanding of this capital
          spiritual event, in the course of the last 80
          years or so? If not --- how were they supposed
          to enlighten Mankind about this event?...<<

          Robert writes:

          To my knowledge? -- I suppose that I don't have
          much "knowledge" of what "myriads" of Anthros
          have or haven't understood. I have had little
          experience of Anthros; almost all of that has
          been here in English cyberspace. Most of the
          myriads, I suppose, aren't "here". I would
          guess that most of the myriads have at least
          read Steiner's proclamation of the 2nd Coming,
          but haven't experienced it directly, the way he
          described (as I have not).

          As for failure to do all that we could do for
          Anthroposphy: I accept that one might rightly
          feel sadness, even some guilt, about one's own
          failure to do everything "to the full extent of
          one's capacities" (as I do), but if such
          consciousness of failure develops into despair
          -- then it can be crippling in itself. Failure
          leads to despair, which leads to more failure,
          which leads to more despair . . . a downward
          spiral, which helps nobody.

          But I was speaking not so much of despair over
          personal failures as despair over the failures
          of the larger Anthro Movement and over the
          course of world events. My "thought" was a
          hint that such despair is never justified; it
          is a feeling that might follow only from a
          misapprehension of the basic facts of Reality.

          Anyway, despair is crippling; it doesn't help
          oneself; it helps nothing and no-one. Steiner
          said: "[the student] says to himself: 'I will
          summon all my strength to do my work as well as
          I possibly can.' And he suppresses the thought
          which makes him faint-hearted; for he knows
          that this very thought might be the cause of a
          worse performance on his part, and that in any
          case it cannot contribute to the improvement of
          his work. And thus thought after thought, each
          fraught with advantage to his whole life, flows
          into the student's outlook. They take the place
          of those that had a hampering, weakening
          effect. He begins to steer his own ship on a
          secure course through the waves of life,
          whereas it was formerly battered to and fro by
          these waves."

          The voice of experience (about despair, I
          mean),

          Robert M




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        • Robert Mason
          ... will!
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 6, 2008
            "carynlouise24" wrote:

            >>Anthroposophy will prevail. And this it
            will!<<

            Robert agrees:

            In the long, long run -- even if not on this
            planet.



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          • Robert Mason
            ... the newness of the consiousness soul epoch) to present anthroposophy in a formula which still contained fragments belonging to the 4th cultural epoch . .
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 6, 2008
              Carol wrote:

              >>. . . . RS would have been forced (because of
              the newness of the consiousness soul epoch) to
              present anthroposophy in a formula which still
              contained 'fragments' belonging to the 4th
              cultural epoch . . . .<<

              Robert writes:

              In his primary teaching RS always took pains to
              appeal only to the Consciousness Soul, only to
              the student's reason and sense of truth, always
              respecting the student's freedom, never
              applying any psychic force -- the kind of
              authoritative force that was appropriate for
              the Intellectual Soul. But he also gave much
              that is beneficial even for those who are not
              quite ready for the Consciousness Soul: for
              example, the dramas, medicine, BD agriculture,
              certainly education, even the Christian
              Community rituals, and so on.

              RM



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            • carynlouise24
              Yes correct and Dr. Steiner said every Word of God will be restored to the last dot. What the Saints have achieved and what we have learnt up to day is the
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 7, 2008
                Yes correct and Dr. Steiner said every Word of God will be restored
                to the last dot. What the Saints have achieved and what we have
                learnt up to day is the preliminary learning of the secrets of the
                Cosmos. Our next stage(s) of development and advancement in the
                sphere of Jupiter, Venus and Vulcan will be further Cosmic education
                namely the development of our Spirit-Self, Spirit-Life and Spirit-Man.

                We also must remember we are in the process of creating a new Zodiac
                Constellation. We can see how the creation of The New Sun is the
                centre of our new Zodiac Constellation : The Hierarchies of Love and
                Freedom.

                This is exciting and I wonder what the new names for the
                Constellations will be-

                Carol – the Dynamic
                Steve – the Sage
                Bradford – the Master
                Nina – the Wisdom
                Caryn – the Sucker
                Robert – the Dude
                Jean-Marc – the Awesome
                Val – the Dudess

                :) not meaning to leave any name out! Ah but of course with deep
                respects to the Saints - the Zodiac will be named after them; The
                Twelve Children of Israel, The Twelve Sons of Joseph; The Twelve
                Disciples; The Twelve Knights of the Round Table. These are our
                Heroes and Heroines.

                We can see how as the Luciferic Beings redeemed themselves - so too
                the Ahrimen Beings will have to redeem themselves. Every living
                creation has a magnetic pull to be closer to God, whether they
                realize it or not and the sooner they realize the better for
                themselves and their development. Who knows maybe someday the
                Ahrimen Beings will eventually create their own sun and zodiac
                constellation. 26,000 years is ample time for this preparation.

                Love.


                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mason
                <robertsmason_99@...> wrote:
                >
                > "carynlouise24" wrote:
                >
                > >>Anthroposophy will prevail. And this it
                > will!<<
                >
                > Robert agrees:
                >
                > In the long, long run -- even if not on this
                > planet.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                ______________________________________________________________________
                ______________
                > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of
                Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
                > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
                >
              • Nina
                ... and Freedom. ... Dear Caryn, You are the Sucker ...first I didn t like classic definition (One who is easily deceived,a gullible person;dupe). Anthro
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 7, 2008
                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carynlouise24"
                  > Yes correct and Dr. Steiner said every Word of God will be restored
                  > to the last dot. What the Saints have achieved and what we have
                  > learnt up to day is the preliminary learning of the secrets of the
                  > Cosmos. Our next stage(s) of development and advancement in the
                  > sphere of Jupiter, Venus and Vulcan will be further Cosmic education
                  > namely the development of our Spirit-Self, Spirit-Life and Spirit-Man.
                  > We also must remember we are in the process of creating a new Zodiac
                  > Constellation. We can see how the creation of The New Sun is the
                  > centre of our new Zodiac Constellation : The Hierarchies of Love
                  and Freedom.
                  > This is exciting and I wonder what the new names for the
                  > Constellations will be-
                  > Carol – the Dynamic
                  > Steve – the Sage
                  > Bradford – the Master
                  > Nina – the Wisdom
                  > Caryn – the Sucker
                  > Robert – the Dude
                  > Jean-Marc – the Awesome
                  > Val – the Dudess

                  Dear Caryn,
                  You are the "Sucker"...first I didn't like classic definition
                  (One who is easily deceived,a gullible person;dupe). Anthro rescue
                  readily arrived! See it is a perfect description for you! Maybe we
                  should spread the Word, "A sucker is NOT a dupe!" NINA
                  "Let us think of this outer inherent reality as the Father from which
                  the Creative Word, the Son (Jn 1,1-3) went forth. 24 Later in John's
                  Gospel Christ speaks of having come from the Father and returning to
                  the Father and drawing all persons to himself (Jn 12,32). In this, he
                  is becoming and acting as this outer inherent reality. And we must
                  then further think of this outer inherent reality as an awesome force
                  of suction (negative space) that pulls the universe outward toward it.
                  Within the universe it is represented by the stars such as our Sun.
                  We've already seen how the suction of the stars in the universe tends
                  to balance out matter (including the black holes).25 In other words,
                  in the creative process, the creation of light involved suction..."
                  From Smith, "David's Question", online ch What is Man,p.5(actual text
                  p.429)
                  http://www.bibleandanthroposophy.com/Smith/main/smith1.html
                • Stephen Hale
                  ... wrote: We can see how as the Luciferic Beings redeemed themselves - so too the Ahrimen Beings will have to redeem themselves. Every
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 7, 2008


                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carynlouise24" <carynlouise24@...> wrote:

                    "We can see how as the Luciferic Beings redeemed themselves - so too the Ahrimen Beings will have to redeem themselves. Every living creation has a magnetic pull to be closer to God, whether they realize it or not and the sooner they realize the better for themselves and their development. Who knows maybe someday the Ahrimen Beings will eventually create their own sun and zodiac constellation. 26,000 years is ample time for this preparation."

                    Love.

                    Lucifer is the closest of the unholy trinity of spiritual beings to be redeemed.  The goal of anthroposophy is to redeem Lucifer as the Holy Spirit, and this stands to occur in direct relation to the taking in of the content of spiritual-scientific knowledge, which constitutes the progressive redemption of the now divided Human Astral Body.  Thus, Lucifer's redemption coincides with our own.  When the slumbering soul-spiritual organs are awakened and made active again through the power inherent in the turning of the intellect toward the greater substance of consciousness, then the desires of the spirit take rulership over the lower self.  This is occurring more and more through the science of the spirit, and represents its true mission.

                    The Human Etheric Body requires redemption through a somewhat different, but related process, for herein is where Ahriman rules with a heavy-laden hand in the affairs of present-day materialism and cold-abstract thinking on a linear and superficial level.  Each degree in which the etheric body has contracted into the physical body, which reached maximum contraction in the 15th century, is also a degree of loss of causality in favor of effective representation alone.  That is why we generally don't know causes but only their effects.  It is because we have been "first cause removed" in this declination of the etheric body, and its impregnation into the physical.  The Renaissance and Enlightenment are indicative of this, and the developing scientific materialism represents an Aristotelianism that is far removed from what Aristotle first brought forth as The Philosopher.   So something more than Anthroposophy alone is required for redeeming this contracted etheric body; an entirely different emphasis is need.  And it is one that acknowledges Ahriman's great power and controlling influence in the world today.  This something more constitutes the second aspect of Spiritual Science, which we call: Psychosophy, and exists to redeem Ahriman in the same way that Anthroposophy exists to redeem Lucifer; through etheric regeneration to go along with the astral restoration unto its original twelve-foldness.

                    Michael has given us something very important for effectuating this etheric regeneration, and it has magnetic power.  But it is our task to grow it through means about to be explained.

                    Steve 

                  • Stephen Hale
                    ... wrote: Michael has given us something very important for effectuating this etheric regeneration, and it has magnetic power. But it is our task to grow it
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 7, 2008
                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                      wrote:


                      "Michael has given us something very important for effectuating this
                      etheric regeneration, and it has magnetic power. But it is our task to
                      grow it through means about to be explained."



                      It is very interesting that this morning I brought something forth about
                      Michael and the Psychosophy that He stands behind, and then we get to
                      here about someone named, John Stirling Walker, who espouses a
                      psychosophy with ties to Sun-Yung Moon and Lafayette Hubbard.
                      Astounding indeed, and negatory to the profound. It leaves me stifled,
                      in fact; unable at the moment to go on with this discourse. I believe
                      though, that it is a good example of the occult movement that is working
                      right now against anthroposophy. And for that, I am glad it was
                      written, and cross-posted here.

                      Steve
                    • carynlouise24
                      Seeing Tom s here - his title can be: Tom - the many colours of the rainbow! Nina :) well really what came to mind in Sucker was a Fool for Christ :) Steve,
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 8, 2008
                        Seeing Tom's here - his title can be:

                        Tom - the many colours of the rainbow!

                        Nina :) well really what came to mind in Sucker was a 'Fool for
                        Christ' :)

                        Steve, I wouldn't hassle about this; in fact we should feel sorry for
                        them because they have to -at the end of the day- live with
                        themselves. This is why we understand truth in spiritual science
                        working towards anthroposophy is so important because the other
                        option of illusion is basically a waste and loss of time.

                        Thanks for your knowledge.



                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                        <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > "Michael has given us something very important for effectuating this
                        > etheric regeneration, and it has magnetic power. But it is our
                        task to
                        > grow it through means about to be explained."
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > It is very interesting that this morning I brought something forth
                        about
                        > Michael and the Psychosophy that He stands behind, and then we get
                        to
                        > here about someone named, John Stirling Walker, who espouses a
                        > psychosophy with ties to Sun-Yung Moon and Lafayette Hubbard.
                        > Astounding indeed, and negatory to the profound. It leaves me
                        stifled,
                        > in fact; unable at the moment to go on with this discourse. I
                        believe
                        > though, that it is a good example of the occult movement that is
                        working
                        > right now against anthroposophy. And for that, I am glad it was
                        > written, and cross-posted here.
                        >
                        > Steve
                        >
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