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Re: a theory of racial prudery

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  • carol
    Robert, I did enjoy your response to Frank where you discussed the Spirit Beings working through folk souls and in addition to those working through the
    Message 1 of 38 , Mar 26, 2008

       

      Robert, I did enjoy your response to Frank where you discussed the Spirit Beings working through folk souls and in addition to those working through the American folk soul. It brought to my mind how more than once I read a form of warning about how for the future development of Anthroposophy, the lectures on Folk Souls would need to be studied seriously.

      I was thinking that the renegate Spirit Beings of Personality who work into folk souls at the same time as the normal ones do, might fit into the scenario described in one of my responses where I quoted from the following link: http://wn.rsarchive.org/Religion/ExoEso_index.html

      "....If we tolerate Ahriman in the evolution of the Earth, if we allow him a share in it, he brings us death, and with it, the intellect, and we can take up in the human being death and intellect."

      ...in that the renegade SBs act as service to humanity only if their powers remain subjugated by those held by the normal SBs.

      The ever evolving intellectual/ego experience appears to be paramount to human evolution at this stage and it seems that the specifics of the configuration of Spirit Beings' applicable to folk souls also point to this development- the cultivation of language, scientific thought and invention, evolution in Time sequence...

      Robert: "RS describes how the ancient Sanscrit language came about during the old Indian Age, through the cooperation among the Archangelic Indian Folk-spirit, an "abnormal Archangel" (Spirit of Language), and an "abnormal Sprit of Personality" (Thought Spirit). He then states the general principle:

      RS: "That, however, is what must be observed in all other peoples, namely, that in them an unique co-operation takes place between these three forces, between the normal Folk-spirit or Archangel, the abnormal Archangel, and that which acts inwardly in the abnormal Spirit of the Age, who works, not as a Spirit of the Age, but from within, and finally that which the true Spirit of the Age has to convey inwardly to the nation."

      And further, through your bringing our attention to the distinct Spirit Being configuration belonging to the American folk soul through your quote from RS's <The mission of folk souls> has me wondering if this 'set up' might contribute very much towards the current impulse which wishes to Americanize the world- a concept I've seen described in the 186 lectures <The fundamental social demands of our time> .

      (Robert's quote)

      "As to why some folks {i.e. peoples -- rm} act more under the influence of the Spirit of Personality, that is to say, why their life is especially made up of the cooperation of the several personalities, we shall have to speak later. Peoples whose existence is more {i.e. not "only" --rm e.i. 1} under the influence of the abnormal Spirit of Personality {i.e. a Spirit of Form who remained behind during Old Moon and works into Man's thoughts -- rm} are also to be found on the earth; those Spirits of Personality do not work for the further progress of evolution. You need only study the character of the North American people, there you have a people absolutely founded on this principle." . 1<but rather c.>}

      Robert: "But RS was speaking of "nationalism" in the sense of the influence of the "folk spirits/souls". A *Volk* is a lesser division within the greater divisions of the races, which are remnants of the great divisions of Mankind in the Atlantean Age."

      I'm still under the impression that the defining lines pertaining to <the greater divisions of Mankind in the Atlantean Age> stand over and above, and remain to this day, far more complex than do the conditions defining nationalism/ethnicity.

      Robert: "If I understand your meaning, you seem to be saying that some occult groups use accusations of "racism" to inhibit discussions which might lead to deeper (than usual) understanding of human nature. -- I think that's probably so, but that would be in addition to the "Freudian stuff"; it wouldn't exclude it.

      Actually Robert, I find that there exists an occult force at play, within humanity which acts as a very solid blockade against the disclosure of higher revelations- and spiritual scientific observations would constitute such revelations. Also, that 'this occult force at play' would be no other than the Spirit Being Ahriman exercising his dominion over humankind. The Wills of all living individuals would be tied to Will of this Being.

      If you wonder how I see this Being's dominion over the Wills of living individuals playing itself out, I would say that 'as such' has made great gains over the past decade with the HAARP program in full expansion (earth to space to earth zapping), artificial toxic weather/cloud systems becoming more present than not, in addition to the 911 assault on human integrity, Irakian etc sanctified murder torture etc etc. Everywhere earthly organic life is being destroyed behind a veil of deception and fascism which itself escapes the conceptual capabilities of most of humanity in whom the thinking organism is purposely scattered via the electro magnetic spectrum.

      So Robert, facing the WC with spiritual scientific concepts will likely result in ever stronger opposition/blockade seeing as the Ahrimanic Spirit Beings is weighing in stronger and deeper into the reflective souls of individuals.

      Even by elaborating certain spiritual concepts with fellow Anthros can result in renewed, heavy Ahrimanic induced opposition.

      That's the way I'm seeing things. There is rapidly developing before us extremely furtile terrain within the human social fabric for humanly sanctified facism- the Electro magnetic radiation induced zombie/death condition is quickly permitting this.

      And 'this' is how Ahriman is freshly revealing his presence. ...

      Carol.


      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mason <robertsmason_99@...> wrote:
      >
      > To Carol, who wrote:
      >
      > >>. . . . The Freudian stuff I didn't go for
      > either.
      >
      > >>Off the top, I would associate ' the
      > religious impulse of choice' more closely with
      > ' the racial variable' of a given individual,
      > much more readily than analogizing
      > nationalistic experience to one of race- but
      > that may just be my perspective.<<
      >
      > Robert writes:
      >
      > But RS was speaking of "nationalism" in the
      > sense of the influence of the "folk
      > spirits/souls". A *Volk* is a lesser division
      > within the greater divisions of the races,
      > which are remnants of the great divisions of
      > Mankind in the Atlantean Age.
      >
      > Carol wrote:
      >
      > >>. . . . So, at this point, I would say
      > (granted this is generalized enough) that an
      > accusation of racism held towards one who dares
      > 'study' and/or discuss fine differentiations
      > etc relating to, in principal, substrata soul
      > attributes and leanings- such an accusation
      > would essentially be expressive of a sub strata
      > 'occult' will which itself essentially desires
      > to forbid the EXTERNALIZED advancement of
      > spiritual science AND human freedom.<<
      >
      > Robert writes:
      >
      > If I understand your meaning, you seem to be
      > saying that some occult groups use accusations
      > of "racism" to inhibit discussions which might
      > lead to deeper (than usual) understanding of
      > human nature. -- I think that's probably so,
      > but that would be in addition to the "Freudian
      > stuff"; it wouldn't exclude it.
      >
      > Carol wrote:
      >
      > >>. . . . I previously wrote: "So in all, I see
      > the many accusations of racism adressed against
      > Rudolf Steiner's spoken and written words as
      > 'linear' indications that such individuals are
      > not 'ready' to behold revelations higher than
      > what can be derived from clear day, external
      > soul experience- and as a result, a certain
      > amount of the karma of such individuals must in
      > consequence remain subject to the WILL of
      > occult forces of evil.
      >
      > >>. . . . In writting: " a certain amount of
      > the karma of such individuals must in
      > consequence remain subject to the WILL of
      > occult forces of evil.", I was being fully
      > reconnaisant of the force and authority
      > allocated to this Spirit Being {Ahriman - RM}
      > in directing human lives and in consequence,
      > earthly affairs.<<
      >
      > ***************************************
      > WordReference.com Dictionnaire Français-Anglais
      > Principal Translations/Principales traductions
      > reconnaissant adj grateful (thankful)
      > reconnaissant adj thankful
      > *****************************************
      >
      > >>. . . . {RS} also had illustrated how the
      > four previous seals, however resembling
      > themselves by way of the narrative imagery used
      > by the author, differs in a pronounced way from
      > the manner in which the 5th is presented.
      > Therefore, one is to expect a pronounced
      > difference in the area of human experience as
      > the 5th cultural epoch progresses and
      > progressively absorbs more of it's essential
      > aspects .
      >
      > >>Such pronounced difference in human soul
      > experience is currently being expressed through
      > the views being thrown around by members of the
      > WC against the newness of the Anthroposophic
      > way of thinking/perceiving/formed thought
      > images.<<
      >
      > Robert writes:
      >
      > Again, if I get your meaning . . . you seem to
      > be saying that the WC people are not "ready" to
      > grasp Anthroposophy because of its "newness",
      > that they are lagging behind present evolution?
      > The first thing necessary to be able to
      > grasp Anthroposophy is modern intellectual-
      > technological consciousness, and I would say
      > that the active WC people surely have that. I
      > think that something else is at work, something
      > is blocking the comprehension of which they are
      > otherwise capable. That "something else" is
      > what I was trying to understand in my recent
      > post. And I would agree that Ahriman is at
      > work in the mix.
      >
      > Robert M
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________________________________________________________________________________
      > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
      > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
      >
    • val2160
      ... Me, I m still hung up in the sexual energy angle that Robert introduced. I d say that there is a sense of camaraderie or dare I say communion that is
      Message 38 of 38 , May 15, 2008


        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "eduardo" <edwardudell@...> wrote:
        >
        > I see several sources of hostility to Waldorf Education. I think some
        > of the reasons people have are partly justified, and should be
        > acknowledged. I say this as someone who thinks Waldorf is often
        > wonderful and a huge blessing for kids.

        Me, I'm still hung up in the sexual energy angle that Robert introduced. I'd say that there is a sense of camaraderie or dare I say communion that is developed by critics of Waldorf Education. Then maybe it's like the song says,

        When you lay your dream to rest
        You can get what's second best
        But it's hard to get enough

        Anyway, I don't think it's any substitute for sex but I spent some time there and I have to admit that there were certain aspects that were, what can I say, kinda fulfilling.

        > Some people are hostile to Waldorf mainly when it enters the public
        > realm so that you have Waldorf-inspired public schools. I agree with
        > the movement for increased school choice, so I disagree with the
        > opposition raised by people like Dan Dugan to Waldorf-inspired public
        > schools.

        I would rather see school vouchers rather than public Waldorf Schools.


        > Others are hostile to Waldorf because of a phenomenon I´ve observed in
        > religious and spiritual settings. In such settings, people who are in
        > authority, and must make decisions, sometimes base those decisions on
        > arbitrary personal choices dressed up in spiritual garb and
        > pseudo-spiritual justification. That is done not necessarily
        > intentionally, but because of a lack of self-knowledge and an
        > abundance of self-deception. To be at the sharp end of such
        > "spiritual" decisions, which one perceives as being in reality
        > entirely arbitrary, arouses justifiable outrage and disgust.
        >
        > Again, this is a phenomenon that seems to be prevalent in spiritual
        > settings -- when there is a dispute or a conflict, the thing is
        > sometimes not resolved in an open way according to some kind of
        > transparent due process. Why is that? Because one is in a spiritual
        > setting, and everyone has or seems to have idealistic intentions, and
        > as a result sometimes too little attention is paid to the shadow side
        > of authority and of the human person. Thus when a conflict emerges
        > between teachers and parents or teachers and children, there may be no
        > commonsense structure for airing the conflict and resolving it fairly.
        > Instead the whole thing proceeds in an entirely arbitrary manner
        > according to the "spiritual insight" of some authority or authorities
        > "meditating" the problem. I don´t actually think that Waldorf is so
        > bad on this score, but I´ve no doubt the abuse of authority, masked
        > with supposed spiritual justifications, happens sometimes.
        >
        > Few people can be counted on to judge fairly when their own interests
        > come into conflict with the interests of others. Nor in any truly
        > enlightened setting, surely, should a party to a conflict at the same
        > time be the judge and jury over that conflict. But that is what
        > happens sometimes in spiritual settings, because everyone coming
        > together for spiritual purposes feels so pleased with their motives
        > for what they are doing, and the lack of sufficient doubts or
        > suspicions or awareness of the dark side means that sometimes no
        > objective accountability structures fair to all parties are set up.
        > Ironically, if you go to many an ordinary, crass, business
        > corporation, however, where people are naturally very suspicious of
        > motives, you often find extremely enlightened due process arrangements
        > in place, and all kinds of protections for employees against
        > employers, precisely because no one is under any illusions about the
        > saintliness of everyone involved. How ironic that in anthroposophic
        > and spiritual settings, the standard of an ordinary crass business
        > corporation are sometimes not even reached!

        Well, I think that's one side of the coin-and this side costs the schools alot of $$$$ so it does tend to improve over time if the school is to be financially viable. But the other side is that WS's can appeal to "new progressives" or "cultural creatives" who have rejected organized religion and rituals and who feel an affinity initially with you know-"the vibe." I've told this story, I think before, but years ago my children's school had this nationally renowed independent school marketing guru guy come to spend like a weekend with the Board. He'd never even heard of Waldorf before so he wasn't a Waldorf guy. So what he said was:

        A. you are the entire top of your market-whatever authentic education, or real education is-that's your identity and

        B. the good news is that you own the entire left of your market but the bad news is that there's no money there.

        So, I'm like cool-we could be kleenex, or better yet, coke-let's spend the weekend figuring out how to brand this sucker. But the consensus was that we should re-position ourselves to the right-go after the money-a capital idea!

        So that's what we did and the school's been working toward re-positioning themselves in the local marketplace ever since.

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