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Martin Luther

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  • carynlouise24
    Report in Sunday Times 09/03/08 Martin Luther was right after all, says Vatican ... Pope Benedict xvi is to rehabilitate Martin Luther, arguing that he did not
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 10, 2008
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      Report in Sunday Times 09/03/08

      Martin Luther was right after all, says Vatican ...

      Pope Benedict xvi is to rehabilitate Martin Luther, arguing that he
      did not intend to split Christinaity but only to purge the Church of
      corrupt practices. Pope Benedict will issue his findings on Luther
      (1483-1546) in September after discussing him at his annual seminar
      of 40 fellow theologians – known as the Ratzinger Schulerkrels – at
      Castelgandolfo, the papal summer residence. According to Vatican
      insiders the Pope will argue that Luther, who was excommunicated and
      condemned for heresy, was not a heretic. Cardinal Walter Kasper, the
      head of the pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, said
      the move would help to promote ecumenical dialogue between Catholics
      and Protestants. It is also designed to counteract the impact of
      July's papal statement describing the Protestant and Orthodox faiths
      as defective and `not proper Churches'. The move to re-evalute
      Luther is part of a drive to soften Pope Benedict's image as an arch-
      conservative hardliner as he approaches the third anniversary of his
      election next month. This week it emerged that the Vatican is
      planning to erect a statue of Galilieo, who also faced a heresy
      trial, to mark the 400th anniversary next year of his discovery of
      the telescope. The Pope has also reached out to the Muslim world to
      mend fences after his 2006 speech at Regensburg University in which
      he appeared to describe Islam as inherently violent and irrational.
      Cardinal Kasper said: `We have much to learn from Luther, beginning
      with the importance he attached to the word of God'. It was time for
      a `more positive' view of Luther, whose reforms had aroused papal ire
      at the time but could now be seen as having `anticipated aspects of
      reform which the church has adopted over time'. Luther challenged
      the authority of the papacy by holding that the Bible is the sole
      source of religious authority and made it accessible to ordinary
      people by translating it into the vernacular. He was appalled on a
      visit to Rome in 1510 by the power, wealth and corruption of the
      papacy. In 1517 he protested publicly against the sale of papal
      indulgences for the remission of sins in his '95 Theses', nailing a
      copy to the door of a Wittenberg church. Luther was excommunicated
      by Pope Leo X, who dismissed him initially as `a drunken German who
      will change his mind when sober'.


      HYPOCRITES! Using the Being of Martin Luther for a marketing
      campaign.
    • Nina
      ... Dear Caryn and Everyone, No shortage of controversial subjects these days.Heard more about the Vatican this morning on David Wilcock 2012 Enigma video.
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 10, 2008
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        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carynlouise24"
        > Report in Sunday Times 09/03/08
        > Martin Luther was right after all, says Vatican ...
        > HYPOCRITES! Using the Being of Martin Luther for a marketing
        > campaign.>Caryn

        Dear Caryn and Everyone,
        No shortage of controversial subjects these days.Heard more about the
        Vatican this morning on David Wilcock "2012 Enigma" video. As I've
        mentioned, on that related list, my main focus is trying to understand
        Cayce(Wilcock believes he is the reincarnation of) and find Steiner
        most needed w/important discernment.Have written to moderator how I
        wish David spoke/studied more of Steiner aside from praising "Knowledge
        of Higher Worlds".Still waiting for more feedback related to why link
        to descriptions of Judith's stigmata are not approved.(You see, in RA
        MATERIAL, St. Francis is held up as highly evolved being.) Have stated
        my intention to leave due to too much dissonance.Should not have to
        fight to have such a post placed. NINA
        http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8563360212096107936
      • Valerie Walsh
        ... Talk about your funny one-liners.-Val
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 10, 2008
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          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carynlouise24"
          <carynlouise24@...> wrote:
          >
          > Report in Sunday Times 09/03/08

          > Pope Benedict xvi is to rehabilitate Martin Luther, arguing that he
          > did not intend to split Christinaity but only to purge the Church of
          > corrupt practices.

          Talk about your funny one-liners.-Val
        • Stephen Hale
          ... Luther challenged the authority of the papacy by holding that the Bible is the sole source of religious authority and made it accessible to ordinary
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 10, 2008
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            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carynlouise24"
            <carynlouise24@...> wrote:
            >
            > Report in Sunday Times 09/03/08
            "Luther challenged the authority of the papacy by holding that the
            Bible is the sole source of religious authority and made it accessible
            to ordinary people by translating it into the vernacular. He was
            appalled on a visit to Rome in 1510 by the power, wealth and corruption
            of the papacy. In 1517 he protested publicly against the sale of papal
            indulgences for the remission of sins in his '95 Theses', nailing a copy
            to the door of a Wittenberg church. Luther was excommunicated by Pope
            Leo X, who dismissed him initially as `a drunken German who will change
            his mind when sober'."
            >
            >
            > HYPOCRITES! Using the Being of Martin Luther for a marketing
            > campaign.


            The Gospel of John concludes with the statement that if all the deeds
            and miracles that Christ conducted on earth were to be told, that it
            would fill up a library. Christianity only asks us to believe the
            historical facts as described in its books. Since these events too place
            in time, they exist in the "trace of time", just as the time of our life
            exists and is retained as memories. Verification requires more than
            ordinary mind, which can only theorize and realize an outer, measurable,
            surface proof for everything. Reductive and adductive reasoning work on
            self- illumination and inner reflectivity that makes this trace
            possible, and allows these events to be verified as historically true
            and accurate. Martin Luther tried to establish a reformation of the
            church in defiance of the catholic autocracy and provided little more
            than a new set of dogmas with a few fewer ceremonies. What started out
            as a great idea, inspired by the likes of Eckhart and Tauler, who were
            mystics, and rose to a definite act of courage when he posted his 95
            theses against the selling of indulgences on the church door at
            Wittenberg, became over time mired in chaos, dispute, denunications,
            etc. The Protestant church was forced to compromise at a level below its
            true original intent, and today expresses watered-down christianity much
            like the catholic religion. Interestingly, the year 2003 marked the 95th
            anniversary of an extraordinary activity that began in 1908, when Rudolf
            Steiner began to give his lectures on the gospels, their relationship to
            each other, the Book of Revelation, the meaning of the apocalypse, and
            how Jesus and Christ relate to each other. In 1913, he gave "The Fifth
            Gospel", which served to restore the knowledge of the original "Q"
            gospel known to the Hebrews even before Christ came to earth. This was a
            major accomplishment, but little known today. In effect, Rudolf Steiner
            completed the work started by Martin Luther for a true Christianity
            based on real knowledge of real events and their significance in the
            evolution of mankind. All told, his work encompasses some 340 volumes of
            spiritual science accomplished over the course of the first quarter of
            the 20th century. He was much vilified in his own land, which is
            perplexing considering the German pride in its intellect. But he was
            before his time, and this created problems.


            Steve
          • carynlouise24
            Hi Nina, Some extracts on incarnation and stigmata- Rudolf Steiner The length of time between death and a new birth is determined by the fact that as a rule
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 11, 2008
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              Hi Nina,

              Some extracts on incarnation and stigmata-

              Rudolf Steiner
              The length of time between death and a new birth is determined by the
              fact that as a rule the I of man returns into the physical world only
              when this world has been so transformed as to give opportunity for
              new experiences. While the Ego is in the spiritual worlds, man's
              earthly dwelling-place is changing. In one respect this change is
              connected with the changes that are taking place in the great
              Universe – changes, for example, in the relative position of the
              Earth to the Sun.

              Periodic changes involving cosmic repetitions are connected with the
              development of new conditions on the Earth. They find expression,
              for example, in the fact that the region of the heavens where the Sun
              rises at the vernal equinox makes an entire circuit in about 26,000
              years. Throughout this period the vernal point has therefore been
              moving from one region of the heavens to another, and in a twelfth of
              this period of time – that is to say, in about 2,100 years –
              conditions on the Earth will have altered sufficiently for the soul
              to be able to have essentially new experiences upon Earth.

              Moreover as these experiences differ according to whether one is
              incarnating as a woman or as a man, two incarnations will as a rule
              take place during this time – one as a man, one as a woman. However,
              these things also depend upon the forces gathered during earthly
              life – forces the individual takes with him through the gate of
              death. Therefore all such indications as have been given here are
              only valid in the most general sense; there will be many and manifold
              individual variations.

              (Occult Science page 318)

              In a lecture Rudolf Steiner did say in time to come incarnations will
              happen at a more rapid pace. However, as said above, the rule is
              once as a woman and once as a man which is generally quite a good
              yardstick to measure.

              In An Esoteric Cosmology VIII The Christian Mystery, Rudolf Steiner
              speaks about stigmata.

              http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19060601p01.html;mark=311,0,8#WN_mark

              Here is an extract, as we can see it is a high stage of being -

              To identify oneself with all beings does not mean that the body is to
              be despised. It must be borne as some exterior object, even as Christ
              bore His Cross. The Spirit must wield the body as the hand wields the
              hammer. At this stage the disciple is conscious of the occult powers
              lying latent in his body. In the course of his meditations. the
              stigmata may even appear on his skin. This is the sign that he is
              ripe for the fifth stage, where, in sudden illumination, the Mystic
              Death is revealed to him.

              The Mystic Death, — In the grip of the greatest of all suffering the
              disciple recognises that the world of the senses is illusion. He is
              actually aware of death and of descending into the world of shades,
              but then the darkness breaks and a new light-the astral light-shines
              out. The veil of the temple is `rent in twain.' This light has
              nothing in common with the physical light of the sun. It rays forth
              from the inner being of man. The impression it makes is wholly unlike
              that made by outer light. The following comparison will give us some
              idea of what is meant. We imagine that we are leaving a turbulent
              city behind us and entering a dense forest. The noises gradually
              cease and the silence becomes complete. We finally begin to be aware
              of what lies beyond the silence, to pass the zero point at which all
              external sound has ceased. And now sound arises again for the inner
              ear from the other side of existence. Such is the experience of the
              soul of one who enters the astral world. He is then in contact with
              the inverse quality of the things with which he was familiar, just as
              in arithmetic, beneath the zero point, we enter into the growing
              series of negative numbers.

              Thus do we need to lose all in order to regain all, and this applies
              to our own existence. In the moment of losing all we appear to die to
              ourselves and it is in the world around us that we begin to live
              again. Such is the Mystic Death. When a man has passed this stage,
              the time has come for the next:

              The Entombment, — Man feels that he is freed from his own body and is
              one with the planet. He is one with the Earth and finds himself again
              within the planetary life.

              The Resurrection, — This is a sublime experience, impossible of
              description unless it be within the walls of the sanctuary. The last
              stage of Christian initiation transcends all words and all analogy
              fails. At this stage man acquires the power of healing. Yet it must
              be realised that he who possesses it, possesses at the same time the
              inverse power to bring about disease. The negative invariably goes in
              hand with the positive. Hence the tremendous responsibility attaching
              to this power which may be characterised by the saying: The creative
              word issues from the soul aflame.

              love.


              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <emeraldnina@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carynlouise24"
              > > Report in Sunday Times 09/03/08
              > > Martin Luther was right after all, says Vatican ...
              > > HYPOCRITES! Using the Being of Martin Luther for a marketing
              > > campaign.>Caryn
              >
              > Dear Caryn and Everyone,
              > No shortage of controversial subjects these days.Heard more about
              the
              > Vatican this morning on David Wilcock "2012 Enigma" video. As I've
              > mentioned, on that related list, my main focus is trying to
              understand
              > Cayce(Wilcock believes he is the reincarnation of) and find Steiner
              > most needed w/important discernment.Have written to moderator how I
              > wish David spoke/studied more of Steiner aside from
              praising "Knowledge
              > of Higher Worlds".Still waiting for more feedback related to why
              link
              > to descriptions of Judith's stigmata are not approved.(You see, in
              RA
              > MATERIAL, St. Francis is held up as highly evolved being.) Have
              stated
              > my intention to leave due to too much dissonance.Should not have to
              > fight to have such a post placed. NINA
              > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8563360212096107936
              >
            • Nina
              ... However, these things also depend upon the forces gathered during earthly life – forces the individual takes with him through the gate of death.
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 11, 2008
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                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carynlouise24"
                > Some extracts on incarnation and stigmata- Rudolf Steiner....
                > Moreover as these experiences differ according to whether one is
                > incarnating as a woman or as a man, two incarnations will as a rule
                > take place during this time – one as a man, one as a woman.
                However, these things also depend upon the forces gathered during
                earthly life – forces the individual takes with him through the gate
                of death. Therefore all such indications as have been given here
                are only valid in the most general sense; there will be many and
                manifold individual variations.
                > (Occult Science page 318)
                > In a lecture Rudolf Steiner did say in time to come incarnations
                will happen at a more rapid pace. However, as said above, the rule
                is once as a woman and once as a man which is generally quite a good
                > yardstick to measure.
                > In An Esoteric Cosmology VIII The Christian Mystery, Rudolf Steiner
                > speaks about stigmata.
                http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19060601p01.html;mark=311,0,8#WN_mark

                > Here is an extract, as we can see it is a high stage of being -
                > The Resurrection, — This is a sublime experience, impossible of
                > description unless it be within the walls of the sanctuary. The
                last stage of Christian initiation transcends all words and all
                analogy fails. At this stage man acquires the power of healing. Yet
                it must be realised that he who possesses it, possesses at the same
                time the inverse power to bring about disease. The negative
                invariably goes in hand with the positive. Hence the tremendous
                responsibility attaching to this power which may be characterised by
                the saying: The creative word issues from the soul aflame.
                > love.

                Dear Caryn,
                You provided,as always, what I needed to hear at the most
                appropriate moment. Glad you elected to share re-Vatican at this
                time! We also just saw "The Thornbirds" and it looms large there as
                well!(Intersting close-up pictures David shared in his video of
                Vatican pinecone statue - not seen before). Will reflect on last part
                of your text as a reminder. Much said in few words. Thank-you dear
                lady - NINA
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