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Re: Teacher of Righteousness and Christ

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  • Stephen Hale
    ... In 1904 Rudolf Steiner was compelled to reveal that the akashic record truly exists as a record of the spiritual events of earth evolution. This was
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 14, 2008
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      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "888" <fireofthe12@...> wrote:
      > It is important to realise that Christ as He appeared for the three
      > years in Jesus of Nazareth is not accessible in the Akashic records. I
      > have discussed this before on this forum.

      In 1904 Rudolf Steiner was compelled to reveal that the akashic record
      truly exists as a record of the spiritual events of earth evolution.
      This was revealed in order that he could proceed in giving out
      spiritual science at the turning point of the 20th century.

      In 1913, after completing the cycles of lectures on the Gospels, from
      1908 until 1912, Rudolf Steiner gave the course on "The Fifth Gospel",
      which was designed to retrieve from the akashic record all that could
      be given concerning the early life of Jesus prior to receiving the
      Christ, and also what Christ had to endure on earth after coming into a
      human being. Thus, by coming into a human being specially prepared for
      such a reception, the akashic record was imbued with a complete
      description of the events, which Steiner labored to reveal
      progressively from 1908 until 1912.

      Thus, "The Fifth Gospel" was a capstone to the founding of the
      Anthroposophical Society on September 20th of 1913. And a copper
      dodecahedron was actually formed and planted into the ground at that
      time.

      Steve
    • jmn36210
      Bruce wrote: It is important to realise that Christ as He appeared for the three years in Jesus of Nazareth is not accessible in the Akashic records. I have
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 14, 2008
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        Bruce wrote:

        "It is important to realise that Christ as He appeared for the three
        years in Jesus of Nazareth is not accessible in the Akashic records. I
        have discussed this before on this forum.

        Some have thought that Dr. Steiner said "it is all there". Whether we
        agree with Dr. Steiner on this or other things is a matter for the
        individual, but let us examine the facts."

        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Well, just for the record, Bruce: the fact is - that the original German title

        of GA 148 [The Fifth Gospel] is:

        "Aus der Akasha-Forschung - Das Fünfte Evangelium"

        Jean-Marc

        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "888" <fireofthe12@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear All,
        > Back in 1956 Professor John Allegro wrote an article for Time magazine-
        > http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,893345,00.html
        > Crucifixion Before Christ - TIME
        > Quote:
        > The Qumrân settlement, he said, was founded by a group of "religious
        > extremists," the Essenes. They probably fled into the desert from
        > Jerusalem's evil priest-king, Alexander Jannaeus, who ruled from 103
        > to 76 B.C. The unpopular Jannaeus was once pelted with fruit on the
        > Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkoth). According to Professor Allegro, this
        > was the man who descended on Qumrân and arrested its leader, the
        > mysterious "Teacher of Righteousness," whom he turned over to his
        > mercenaries to be crucified.
        >
        > "Already, in Jerusalem, this Jewish tyrant had displayed his
        > bestiality by inflicting the same awful death on eight hundred
        > rebels," says Professor Allegro. "A Qumrân manuscript speaks in
        > shocked tones of the enormity of this crime . . .
        > This article elicited the following letter:
        > - TIME
        >
        > Sir:
        >
        > Professor Allegro's discovery of evidence in the Dead Sea Scrolls that
        > Christ had a forerunner [Feb. 6] corroborates a lecture on the Gospel
        > of St. Matthew that was given at Bern, Switzerland way back in 1910 by
        > a highly independent German thinker named Rudolf Steiner (1861-1925).
        > The question of how Steiner was able to create a theory in clear
        > accord with documentary evidence that was still underground is intriguing.
        >
        > Steiner named Allegro's "Teacher of Righteousness" Jesus Ben Pandira."
        > He described him as the leader of the Essenes, who was inspired "to
        > impart a teaching that was to make comprehensible the mystery of
        > Palestine—the mystery of Christ." Steiner went on to say that "after
        > being accused of heresy and blasphemy [Jesus Ben Pandira] was stoned,
        > and hanged upon a tree." Among the prophet's pupils, Steiner
        > concluded, was a favorite named Netzer, who founded an Essene
        > community at Nazareth. After the return from Egypt, Jesus was taken to
        > Nazareth "that (in the words of St. Matthew) it might be fulfilled
        > what was spoken by the prophets: He shall become a Nazarene." Becoming
        > a Nazarene, said Steiner, meant becoming an initiate of Netzer's
        > Essene community: "There the early years of Jesus were to be passed."
        >
        > The Teacher of Righteousness of the Dead Sea Scrolls is also mentioned
        > in the Talmud; other accounts relate that he was stoned to death and
        > hung on a tree in Lud /Lyddia. Blavatsky confuses him with Jesus of
        > Nazareth.
        >
        > The Teacher of Righteousness - Jeshu Ben Pandira - also had disciples
        > of his own, but they were a lesser number than Christ Jesus.
        >
        > Jeshu was a common name. In the older Gospels, Barrabas is also called
        > Jesus Barrabas.
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barabbas
        > Bar Abbas - son of God
        >
        > This was taken out for obvious reasons but there is probably a deeper
        > mystery there.
        >
        > It is important to realise that Christ as He appeared for the three
        > years in Jesus of Nazareth is not accessible in the Akashic records. I
        > have discussed this before on this forum.
        >
        > Some have thought that Dr. Steiner said "it is all there". Whether we
        > agree with Dr. Steiner on this or other things is a matter for the
        > individual, but let us examine the facts. Although spiritual science
        > takes us into the realm of the weird and wonderful it must at all
        > times be logical.
        >
        > I found some pages in Tomberg's "Meditations on the Tarot" where he
        > talks of three Akashic chronicles- see from page 562.
        >
        > So what we are saying is that there is a record of Christ but it is
        > separate to the Akashic Record- for very good -logical reasons.
        >
        > Firstly - to compare again with Dr. Steiner's studies - he states that
        > when viewing the Akashic Record, the passions of a person, an Attila
        > the Hun for example, are etched on the Record. He then states that in
        > the case of a highly evolved individual, a great initiate, these
        > passions don't exist and he would be invisible. In this case it is not
        > just Christ that is invisible.
        >
        > But lastly there is one very important reason why Christ Jesus cannot
        > be in the Akashic Record and this is it:
        >
        > Some will know that Rudolf Steiner said that if we come across an
        > individual in the Akashic Chronicle we do not just meet a dead record.
        > In fact the great poets still can write poetry in their original
        > style. The great musicians, such as Bach, will write new music in
        > Bach's style. We can converse with these spectres of the Akashic.
        > These spectres can appear at spiritualist séances.
        >
        > So how would that be for Christ Jesus? If Christ allowed a double of
        > Himself to be on the Akashic Record then it would be there in
        > opposition to the real thing.
        >
        > This is the solution then- the disciples appear to be talking to thin
        > air, for our Christ is on a higher level in the Book of God.
        >
        > It is with this in mind, easy to understand why many clairvoyants when
        > directing their vision to this time, zero in on another Jesus. Not
        > only clairvoyants but scholars as well for this is the Jesus spoken of
        > in the Essene records and the Talmud. His name is Jesu Ben Pandera or
        > Pantera (son of Panther). He was the son of a Roman soldier and Jewish
        > mother - Mariam a virgin, who was subsequently "outraged" - and lived
        > one hundred years before Jesus of Nazareth. You can read in detail
        > about this Jesus in G.R.S. Mead's 'Did Jesus Live 100 B.C.?'
        >
        > According to Steiner this Jesus was an important teacher in his own
        > right in that he was an incarnation (an overshadowing) of the Maitreya
        > Bodhisattva. This solves many anomalies.
        >
        > Even today we get many claiming to be the Maitreya/Christ; and on this
        > point we can say from our studies, that they're in error. Rudolf
        > Steiner taught that the Christ would not appear again in a physical body.
        >
        > Another important point is the fate of Jesus who prepared the vehicle
        > for the Christ. He is an advanced soul in his own right (Zarathushtra)
        > and works on as the Master Jesus, one of the Elder Brothers of Humanity.
        >
        >
        >
        > -Bruce
        >

      • 888
        ... Greetings Jean-Marc, I m sure with your encyclopedic memory you ll remember the following instruction for Dr. Steiner: Firstly - to compare again with Dr.
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 14, 2008
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          >
          > Well, just for the record, Bruce: the fact is - that the original German
          > title
          >
          > of GA 148 [The Fifth Gospel] is:
          >
          > "Aus der Akasha-Forschung - Das Fünfte Evangelium"

          Greetings Jean-Marc,
          I'm sure with your encyclopedic memory you'll remember the following
          instruction for Dr. Steiner:

          "Firstly - to compare again with Dr. Steiner's studies - he states that
          when viewing the Akashic Record, the passions of a person, an Attila
          the Hun for example, are etched on the Record. He then states that in
          the case of a highly evolved individual, a great initiate, these
          passions don't exist and he would be invisible. In this case it is not
          just Christ that is invisible."

          So in the case of the Fifth Gospel we can only assume that Rudolf
          Steiner is using the term in a wider sense- in the sense that Tomberg
          describes.

          And secondly:


          "Some will know that Rudolf Steiner said that if we come across an
          individual in the Akashic Chronicle we do not just meet a dead record.
          In fact the great poets still can write poetry in their original
          style. The great musicians, such as Bach, will write new music in
          Bach's style. We can converse with these spectres of the Akashic.
          These spectres can appear at spiritualist séances.

          So how would that be for Christ Jesus? If Christ allowed a double of
          Himself to be on the Akashic Record then it would be there in
          opposition to the real thing."

          Yes if Christ was in the Akashic Chronicles then clairvoyants could
          view His double.

          Best Regards,
          Bruce
        • 888
          Greetings Jean-Marc, I may have confused Astral Light Record with Akashic in the piece I remembered. Nevertheless my objection still stands that the Akashic
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 14, 2008
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            Greetings Jean-Marc,
            I may have confused Astral Light Record with Akashic in the piece I
            remembered. Nevertheless my objection still stands that the Akashic
            form of a person is a living entity.

            http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/FoundEsoter/19051005p01.html
            "For example, Caesar conceived the idea of crossing the Rubicon and
            this roused in him certain feelings and desires. What took place at
            that time corresponds to a combination of astral impulses. The
            physical deeds on the physical plane have vanished for all eternity.
            Caesar's advance can no longer be seen in the Astral Light, but the
            impulse which drove him to it has remained there. The karmic (astral)
            correlations with what takes place on the physical plane remain in the
            Astral Light.

            One must accustom oneself to look away from all physical perceptions
            and only to see the karmic impulses. One must hold fast to these and
            consciously transpose them back into the physical. There is no purpose
            in looking for something which might be seen, as though one were
            looking at a photograph.

            The greatest impulses of world history can however no longer be read
            in the Astral Light, for the impulses of the great initiates were
            passionless. Whoever therefore reads only in the Astral Light, for him
            the whole work of the initiates is absent: for example the content of
            the book `The Great Initiates' by Edouard Schuré could not have been
            found in the Astral Light. Such impressions are only inscribed in the
            Ether. What one can read in the Astral Light in connection with what
            the initiates have done is based on an illusion, because one can only
            read the results of the lives of the great initiates in the impulses
            of their pupils. Pupils and even entire peoples have experienced
            strong and passionate emotions in regard to the actions of the great
            initiates and these have remained in the Astral Light. But it is so
            difficult to study the deepest motives of the great initiates because
            they are only present in the ether.

            Cosmic events — metamorphoses such as those of Atlantis — remain at a
            still higher level, no longer in the Ether, but in the actual Akasha.
            That is the Akashic Chronicle. This latter is nevertheless connected
            in a certain way with the most earthly concerns of mankind. For the
            human being is connected with the great happenings of the Cosmos.
            Every single person is to be found sketched, as it were, in the
            Akashic Chronicle. What is present there continues further and works
            its way into the Ether and the Astral Light. The individual human
            being becomes ever more clearly discernible the more one seeks for him
            in the lower spheres. And one must study all these spheres in order to
            understand the real mechanism of Karma. "


            Akashic forms are living beings:
            http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19060608p01.html;mark=279,0,7#WN_mark
            "Akashic pictures are not static and immobile. They unroll before the
            eye of the seer as living tableaux where objects and persons move and
            even speak. The astral form of Dante would speak as he spoke in his
            own milieu. It is almost invariably this kind of image that is seen in
            spiritualistic séances, where it is thought to be the spirit of the
            dead......

            Definite answers to questions, for example, might be received from the
            form of Dante thus perceived. But they do not emanate from the
            individuality of Dante, for the individuality continues to evolve;
            they emanate from the ancient figure of Dante, `fixed' in the etheric
            milieu of his time."

            A definite problem if this were true of Christ.

            -Bruce
          • jmn36210
            Greetings Bruce, As you can see from the passages and lectures you quoted and mentioned [including your two posts on Christ s Kingdom & the Akasha], these
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 15, 2008
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              Greetings Bruce,
               
              As you can see from the passages and lectures you quoted and mentioned
              [including your two posts on "Christ's Kingdom & the Akasha], these matters
              are rather extremely complex and subtle.
               
              You first wrote:
               
              "Although spiritual science takes us into the realm of the weird and wonderful
              it must at all times be logical."
               
              J-M writes:
               
              As you certainly know, Rudolf Steiner very often said that intellectual, scientific,
              assertions could be logical, perfectly and absolutely logical, irrefutable from a
              logical standpoint --- and yet completely erroneous, false and delusional, as far
              as reality, concrete, objective and factual reality, is concerned.
               
              In other words, the actual facts are not supposed to comply with our
              predetermined logical conclusions...It's the other way around: our logic, our
              intelligence must strive to think consistently and coherently the actual facts
              --- whatever they are.
               
              You wrote:
               
              "It is important to realise that Christ as He appeared for the three
              years in Jesus of Nazareth is not accessible in the Akashic records."
              <snip>
              "But lastly there is one very important reason why Christ Jesus cannot
              be in the Akashic Record and this is it: (...)"
              <snip>
              "So how would that be for Christ Jesus? If Christ allowed a double of
              Himself to be on the Akashic Record then it would be there in
              opposition to the real thing."
               
              J-M writes:
               
              It is important to realize that you are not stating an actual fact; you are
              merely invoking hypothetical arguments and logical reasons and conclusions.
               
              Anyway, the *fact* is that Rudolf Steiner said, for instance [GA 148 -
              10 December1913 (Munich)]:
               
              "The next thing I must talk about is the Temptation story. There the Akashic
              Chronicle depicts the matter more precisely than the other Gospels. [...]
              Once Jesus Christ - The Christ was now in Jesus indeed - had withdrawn
              into solitude [...]
              He remembered, now with the *I* of Christ and the etheric body and the
              astral body of Jesus of Nazareth, how Lucifer and Ahriman [...]"
               
              [Das nächste, was mir obliegt zu erzählen, das ist die Versuchungs-geschichte.
              Da stellt die Akasha-Chronik die Sache genauer dar als die anderen Evangelien.
              (...)
              Nachdem Christus Jesus - jetzt war ja der Christus in Jesus - in die Einsamkeit
              sich zurückgezogen hatte (...)
              Er erinnerte sich, jetzt mit dem Ich des Christus und dem Ätherleib und
              Astralleib des Jesus von Nazareth, wie Luzifer und Ahriman (...)]
               
              Best Regards,
              Jean-Marc
               

               

              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "888" <fireofthe12@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Greetings Jean-Marc,
              > I may have confused Astral Light Record with Akashic in the piece I
              > remembered. Nevertheless my objection still stands that the Akashic
              > form of a person is a living entity.
              >
              > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/FoundEsoter/19051005p01.html
              > "For example, Caesar conceived the idea of crossing the Rubicon and
              > this roused in him certain feelings and desires. What took place at
              > that time corresponds to a combination of astral impulses. The
              > physical deeds on the physical plane have vanished for all eternity.
              > Caesar's advance can no longer be seen in the Astral Light, but the
              > impulse which drove him to it has remained there. The karmic (astral)
              > correlations with what takes place on the physical plane remain in the
              > Astral Light.
              >
              > One must accustom oneself to look away from all physical perceptions
              > and only to see the karmic impulses. One must hold fast to these and
              > consciously transpose them back into the physical. There is no purpose
              > in looking for something which might be seen, as though one were
              > looking at a photograph.
              >
              > The greatest impulses of world history can however no longer be read
              > in the Astral Light, for the impulses of the great initiates were
              > passionless. Whoever therefore reads only in the Astral Light, for him
              > the whole work of the initiates is absent: for example the content of
              > the book `The Great Initiates' by Edouard Schuré could not have been
              > found in the Astral Light. Such impressions are only inscribed in the
              > Ether. What one can read in the Astral Light in connection with what
              > the initiates have done is based on an illusion, because one can only
              > read the results of the lives of the great initiates in the impulses
              > of their pupils. Pupils and even entire peoples have experienced
              > strong and passionate emotions in regard to the actions of the great
              > initiates and these have remained in the Astral Light. But it is so
              > difficult to study the deepest motives of the great initiates because
              > they are only present in the ether.
              >
              > Cosmic events — metamorphoses such as those of Atlantis — remain at a
              > still higher level, no longer in the Ether, but in the actual Akasha.
              > That is the Akashic Chronicle. This latter is nevertheless connected
              > in a certain way with the most earthly concerns of mankind. For the
              > human being is connected with the great happenings of the Cosmos.
              > Every single person is to be found sketched, as it were, in the
              > Akashic Chronicle. What is present there continues further and works
              > its way into the Ether and the Astral Light. The individual human
              > being becomes ever more clearly discernible the more one seeks for him
              > in the lower spheres. And one must study all these spheres in order to
              > understand the real mechanism of Karma. "
              >
              >
              > Akashic forms are living beings:
              > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19060608p01.html;mark=279,0,7#WN_mark
              > "Akashic pictures are not static and immobile. They unroll before the
              > eye of the seer as living tableaux where objects and persons move and
              > even speak. The astral form of Dante would speak as he spoke in his
              > own milieu. It is almost invariably this kind of image that is seen in
              > spiritualistic séances, where it is thought to be the spirit of the
              > dead......
              >
              > Definite answers to questions, for example, might be received from the
              > form of Dante thus perceived. But they do not emanate from the
              > individuality of Dante, for the individuality continues to evolve;
              > they emanate from the ancient figure of Dante, `fixed' in the etheric
              > milieu of his time."
              >
              > A definite problem if this were true of Christ.
              >
              > -Bruce
              >

            • 888
              ... Hi Br.Stephen, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protevangelium_of_James The Protoevangelium of James, is said to have influenced the writer of the Koran- since
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 16, 2008
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                > Yet, the earthly ego had to prepare the unstamped template for the
                > reception of the Christ. So, the unstamped template was born in a
                > manger and the earthly ego was born in a house. And the manger-child
                > went back home to Nazareth.


                Hi Br.Stephen,
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protevangelium_of_James

                The Protoevangelium of James, is said to have influenced the writer of
                the Koran- since it gives the impression that the Christian Gospel is
                one book.

                It tells of the birth in a cave ( same as Mithras).
                Quote:
                Among further traditions not present in the four canonical gospels are
                the birth of Jesus in a cave, the martyrdom of John the Baptist's
                father Zachariah during the slaughter of the infants and Joseph's
                being elderly when Jesus was born. The Nativity reported as taking
                place in a cave, with its Mithraic overtones, remained in the popular
                imagination; many Early Renaissance Sienese and Florentine paintings
                of the Nativity, as well as Byzantine, Greek and Russian icons of the
                Nativity, show such a setting.


                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_Nativity
                The Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem (Arabic, كنيسة المهد) is one
                of the oldest continuously operating churches in the world. The
                structure is built over the cave that tradition marks as the
                birthplace of Christ, and it is considered sacred by followers of both
                Christianity and Islam ....

                The antiquity of this tradition is attested by the Christian apologist
                Justin Martyr (c. 100 - 165), who noted in his Dialogue with Trypho
                that the Holy Family had taken refuge in a cave outside of town:

                "Joseph took up his quarters in a certain cave near the village;
                and while they were there Mary brought forth the Christ and placed Him
                in a manger, and here the Magi who came from Arabia found
                Him."(chapter LXXVIII).

                Origen of Alexandria (185 AD–ca. 254) wrote:

                "In Bethlehem the cave is pointed out where He was born, and the
                manger in the cave where He was wrapped in swaddling clothes. And the
                rumor is in those places, and among foreigners of the Faith, that
                indeed Jesus was born in this cave who is worshipped and reverenced by
                the Christians." (Contra Celsum, book I, chapter LI).

                Cordially,
                Bruce
              • carol
                Steve wrote: In 1913, after completing the cycles of lectures on the Gospels, from1908 until 1912, Rudolf Steiner gave the course on The Fifth Gospel , which
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 16, 2008
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                  Steve wrote: "In 1913, after completing the cycles of lectures on the
                  Gospels, from1908 until 1912, Rudolf Steiner gave the course on "The
                  Fifth Gospel", which was designed to retrieve from the akashic record
                  all that could be given concerning the early life of Jesus prior to
                  receiving the Christ, and also what Christ had to endure on earth after
                  coming into a human being."

                  ....I'm not totally convinced that the content of the lectures came
                  exclusively from the Akashic record. I'm very suspicious that Upper
                  Devachanic variables were an active part of Steiner's life at that
                  moment in time. What I'm implying by this is that I think that he was
                  also being ' inspired' with living content from Spirit Entities who were
                  not at that time assuming incarnate bodies.

                  That's kind of where I stand on this. c.


                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "888" fireofthe12@ wrote:
                  > > It is important to realise that Christ as He appeared for the three
                  > > years in Jesus of Nazareth is not accessible in the Akashic records.
                  I
                  > > have discussed this before on this forum.
                  >
                  > In 1904 Rudolf Steiner was compelled to reveal that the akashic record
                  > truly exists as a record of the spiritual events of earth evolution.
                  > This was revealed in order that he could proceed in giving out
                  > spiritual science at the turning point of the 20th century.
                  >
                  > In 1913, after completing the cycles of lectures on the Gospels, from
                  > 1908 until 1912, Rudolf Steiner gave the course on "The Fifth Gospel",
                  > which was designed to retrieve from the akashic record all that could
                  > be given concerning the early life of Jesus prior to receiving the
                  > Christ, and also what Christ had to endure on earth after coming into
                  a
                  > human being. Thus, by coming into a human being specially prepared for
                  > such a reception, the akashic record was imbued with a complete
                  > description of the events, which Steiner labored to reveal
                  > progressively from 1908 until 1912.
                  >
                  > Thus, "The Fifth Gospel" was a capstone to the founding of the
                  > Anthroposophical Society on September 20th of 1913. And a copper
                  > dodecahedron was actually formed and planted into the ground at that
                  > time.
                  >
                  > Steve
                  >
                • carol
                  JM brought: Cosmic events — metamorphoses such as those of Atlantis —remain at a still higher level, no longer in the Ether, but in the actual Akasha.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 16, 2008
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                    JM brought:

                     "Cosmic events — metamorphoses such as those of Atlantis —remain at a still higher level, no longer in the Ether, but in the actual Akasha."

                    Anyway,the *fact* is that Rudolf Steiner said, for instance [GA 148 - 10 December1913 (Munich)]: "The next thing I must talk about is the Temptation story. There the Akashic Chronicle depicts the matter more precisely than the other Gospels. [...] Once Jesus Christ - The Christ was now in Jesus indeed - had withdrawn into solitude [...] He remembered, now with the *I* of Christ and the etheric body and the astral body of Jesus of Nazareth, how Lucifer and Ahriman [...]"

                    Steve: "In 1913, after completing the cycles of lectures on the Gospels, from 1908 until 1912, Rudolf Steiner gave the course on "The Fifth Gospel", which was designed to retrieve from the akashic record all that could be given concerning the early life of Jesus prior to receiving the Christ, and also what Christ had to endure on earth after coming into a human being."

                    So I am assuming that this Akashic Chronicle is upper Devachanic in nature. c.

                     

                     

                     

                     

                     


                     

                    > Greetings Bruce, As you can see from the passages and lectures you
                    > quoted and mentioned [including your two posts on "Christ's Kingdom &
                    > the Akasha], these matters are rather extremely complex and subtle.
                    > You first wrote: "Although spiritual science takes us into the realm
                    > of the weird and wonderful it must at all times be logical." J-M
                    > writes: As you certainly know, Rudolf Steiner very often said that
                    > intellectual, scientific, assertions could be logical, perfectly and
                    > absolutely logical, irrefutable from a logical standpoint --- and yet
                    > completely erroneous, false and delusional, as far as reality, concrete,
                    > objective and factual reality, is concerned. In other words, the
                    > actual facts are not supposed to comply with our predetermined logical
                    > conclusions...It's the other way around: our logic, our intelligence
                    > must strive to think consistently and coherently the actual facts ---
                    > whatever they are. You wrote: "It is important to realise that
                    > Christ as He appeared for the three
                    > years in Jesus of Nazareth is not accessible in the Akashic records."
                    > <snip> "But lastly there is one very important reason why Christ Jesus
                    > cannot
                    > be in the Akashic Record and this is it: (...)" <snip>
                    > "So how would that be for Christ Jesus? If Christ allowed a double of
                    > Himself to be on the Akashic Record then it would be there in
                    > opposition to the real thing." J-M writes: It is important to
                    > realize that you are not stating an actual fact; you are merely invoking
                    > hypothetical arguments and logical reasons and conclusions. Anyway,
                    > the *fact* is that Rudolf Steiner said, for instance [GA 148 - 10
                    > December1913 (Munich)]: "The next thing I must talk about is the
                    > Temptation story. There the Akashic Chronicle depicts the matter more
                    > precisely than the other Gospels. [...] Once Jesus Christ - The Christ
                    > was now in Jesus indeed - had withdrawn into solitude [...] He
                    > remembered, now with the *I* of Christ and the etheric body and the
                    > astral body of Jesus of Nazareth, how Lucifer and Ahriman [...]" [Das
                    > nächste, was mir obliegt zu erzählen, das ist die
                    > Versuchungs-geschichte.
                    > Da stellt die Akasha-Chronik die Sache genauer dar als die anderen
                    > Evangelien. (...) Nachdem Christus Jesus - jetzt war ja der Christus in
                    > Jesus - in die Einsamkeit sich zurückgezogen hatte (...) Er erinnerte
                    > sich, jetzt mit dem Ich des Christus und dem Ätherleib und Astralleib
                    > des Jesus von Nazareth, wie Luzifer und Ahriman (...)] Best Regards,
                    > Jean-Marc
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------\
                    > ---------------------
                    >
                    > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "888" fireofthe12@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Greetings Jean-Marc,
                    > > I may have confused Astral Light Record with Akashic in the piece I
                    > > remembered. Nevertheless my objection still stands that the Akashic
                    > > form of a person is a living entity.
                    > >
                    > > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/FoundEsoter/19051005p01.html
                    > > "For example, Caesar conceived the idea of crossing the Rubicon and
                    > > this roused in him certain feelings and desires. What took place at
                    > > that time corresponds to a combination of astral impulses. The
                    > > physical deeds on the physical plane have vanished for all eternity.
                    > > Caesar's advance can no longer be seen in the Astral Light, but the
                    > > impulse which drove him to it has remained there. The karmic (astral)
                    > > correlations with what takes place on the physical plane remain in the
                    > > Astral Light.
                    > >
                    > > One must accustom oneself to look away from all physical perceptions
                    > > and only to see the karmic impulses. One must hold fast to these and
                    > > consciously transpose them back into the physical. There is no purpose
                    > > in looking for something which might be seen, as though one were
                    > > looking at a photograph.
                    > >
                    > > The greatest impulses of world history can however no longer be read
                    > > in the Astral Light, for the impulses of the great initiates were
                    > > passionless. Whoever therefore reads only in the Astral Light, for him
                    > > the whole work of the initiates is absent: for example the content of
                    > > the book `The Great Initiates' by Edouard Schuré could not have
                    > been
                    > > found in the Astral Light. Such impressions are only inscribed in the
                    > > Ether. What one can read in the Astral Light in connection with what
                    > > the initiates have done is based on an illusion, because one can only
                    > > read the results of the lives of the great initiates in the impulses
                    > > of their pupils. Pupils and even entire peoples have experienced
                    > > strong and passionate emotions in regard to the actions of the great
                    > > initiates and these have remained in the Astral Light. But it is so
                    > > difficult to study the deepest motives of the great initiates because
                    > > they are only present in the ether.
                    > >
                    > > Cosmic events — metamorphoses such as those of Atlantis —
                    > remain at a
                    > > still higher level, no longer in the Ether, but in the actual Akasha.
                    > > That is the Akashic Chronicle. This latter is nevertheless connected
                    > > in a certain way with the most earthly concerns of mankind. For the
                    > > human being is connected with the great happenings of the Cosmos.
                    > > Every single person is to be found sketched, as it were, in the
                    > > Akashic Chronicle. What is present there continues further and works
                    > > its way into the Ether and the Astral Light. The individual human
                    > > being becomes ever more clearly discernible the more one seeks for him
                    > > in the lower spheres. And one must study all these spheres in order to
                    > > understand the real mechanism of Karma. "
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Akashic forms are living beings:
                    > > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19060608p01.html;mark=279,0,7#WN_mark
                    > > "Akashic pictures are not static and immobile. They unroll before the
                    > > eye of the seer as living tableaux where objects and persons move and
                    > > even speak. The astral form of Dante would speak as he spoke in his
                    > > own milieu. It is almost invariably this kind of image that is seen in
                    > > spiritualistic séances, where it is thought to be the spirit of the
                    > > dead......
                    > >
                    > > Definite answers to questions, for example, might be received from the
                    > > form of Dante thus perceived. But they do not emanate from the
                    > > individuality of Dante, for the individuality continues to evolve;
                    > > they emanate from the ancient figure of Dante, `fixed' in the etheric
                    > > milieu of his time."
                    > >
                    > > A definite problem if this were true of Christ.
                    > >
                    > > -Bruce
                    > >
                    >

                  • carynlouise24
                    Glory to Christ in the highest for such wonderful people. In my understanding (always open to comment); the Aether permeates everything in our cosmos in a
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 17, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Glory to Christ in the highest for such wonderful people.

                      In my understanding (always open to comment); the Aether permeates
                      everything in our cosmos in a multi-layered dimension. Everything
                      which has happened and which is to happened; the past, the present
                      and the future is in one multi-dimensional space guarded or overseen
                      by Holy Time Spirits.

                      As M.I. Bradford and M.I. Stephen teaches us.

                      This space is like a Rose which opens in its right time; being
                      watered by the Dew of the Aether and nourished by the Rays of the
                      Sun. The opening of the Rose happens to people on an individual
                      basis according to their star-map plan and happens in a larger scale
                      to the cosmos according to All That Is.

                      All That Is has created the Universe in space in time – this is the
                      GREATEST WORK – It Is done. Therefore there is only one truth, it is
                      not chaos, it is scripted according to This infinite Wisdom. We open
                      our petals towards this truth in our evolution in space and time.

                      Rudolf Steiner's lectures on Uranus and Gaia are stunning. Uranus is
                      said to be the Head and Gaia is the body. Uranus, the sign of the
                      Aethers and Heaven and Gaia, Earth in Matter. Bringing Heaven to
                      Earth in knowledge and wisdom.

                      The Aether therefore, we can say, is the Spirit, spiritualised
                      intelligence, heaven. The Astral is the soul world, Gia, matter, the
                      earth.

                      The soul world is created by man's free will and without the Spirit
                      to rescue the Ego from this soul world – the Ego is like a candle
                      blowing in the wind. This rescue transforms the soul-Ego into the
                      Christ-Aether-Ego.

                      Metamorphoses of our soulful Astral body into the Aether mind will be
                      heaven.

                      Nina, last year on the RS forum, kindly posted these extracts from
                      Goethe's work which I'd like to post again.

                      Fr "Goethe On Science" by Jeremy Naydler:
                      p.23...Naydler summarizes in his intro: "As conceived by Goethe,
                      science is as much an inner path of spiritual development as it is a
                      discipline aimed at accumulating knowledge of the physical world.
                      Rather than simply making new discoveries and propounding new theories
                      on the basis of ever more refined techniques of physical observation,
                      the aim of science is, for Goethe, to open the eyes and mind of the
                      beholder of nature to what is spiritually at work within, or at root
                      of, the observed physical phenomena. It therefore involves not only a
                      rigorous training of our faculties of observation and thinking, but
                      also of other human faculties which can attune us to the spiritual
                      dimension that underlies and interpenetrates the physical: faculties
                      such as feeling, imagination, and intuition. Science, as Goethe
                      conceived and practiced it, has as its highest goal the arousal of the
                      feeling of wonder through 'contemplative looking' (Anschauung), in
                      which the scientist would come 'to see God in nature, nature in God.'"

                      p.116...Goethe:"None of the human faculties should be excluded from
                      scientific activity. The depths of intuition (Ahnung), a sure
                      awareness of the present, mathematical profundity, physical
                      exactitude, the heights of reason (Vernunft) and sharpness of
                      intellect (Verstand)together with a versatile and ardent imagination,
                      and a loving delight in the world of the senses - they are all
                      essential for a lively and productive apprehension of the moment."

                      p. 71...Naydler:"Goethe aptly describes his method as a 'delicate
                      empiricism'(Zarte-empirie) It is painstakingly attentive to the
                      phenomena, and requires from the scientist the discipline of always
                      taking the lead from the phenomena, allowing them to speak, and
                      silencing the scientist's own urge to rush into premature explanatory
                      hypotheses. The Goethean scientist seeks to participate in the objects
                      investigated to such a degree that the mind makes itself one with the
                      object, thereby overcoming the sense of separateness that
                      characterizes our normal experience of ourselves in relation to the
                      world."

                      p.73...Goethe:"My whole method relies on derivation. I persist until I
                      have discovered a pregnant point from which several things may be
                      derived or rather - since I am careful in my work and observation -
                      one which yields several things, offering them up of its own accord.
                      If some phenomena appears in my research and I can find no source for
                      it, I let it stand as a problem. This approach has proven quite
                      advantageous over the years. The origin and context of some problem
                      might be impossible to discover; I might have to let it lie for a long
                      time; but at some moment, years later, enlightenment comes in the most
                      wonderful way."



                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...>
                      wrote:

                      JM brought:

                      "Cosmic events — metamorphoses such as those of Atlantis
                      —remain at a still higher level, no longer in the Ether, but in the
                      actual Akasha."

                      Anyway,the *fact* is that Rudolf Steiner said, for instance [GA 148 -
                      10 December1913 (Munich)]: "The next thing I must talk about is the
                      Temptation story. There the Akashic Chronicle depicts the matter more
                      precisely than the other Gospels. [...] Once Jesus Christ - The Christ
                      was now in Jesus indeed - had withdrawn into solitude [...] He
                      remembered, now with the *I* of Christ and the etheric body and the
                      astral body of Jesus of Nazareth, how Lucifer and Ahriman [...]"

                      Steve: "In 1913, after completing the cycles of lectures on the
                      Gospels,from 1908 until 1912, Rudolf Steiner gave the course on "The
                      Fifth Gospel", which was designed to retrieve from the akashic record
                      all that could be given concerning the early life of Jesus prior to
                      receiving the Christ, and also what Christ had to endure on earth
                      after coming into a human being."

                      So I am assuming that this Akashic Chronicle is upper Devachanic in
                      nature. c.
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