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Re: Ancient principles still viable today:

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  • arthra999@yahoo.com
    I ve just begun reading Esoteric Science and ordered a few additional ones. To me what seems to come through in what I ve read so far is Steiner s integrity.
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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      I've just begun reading Esoteric Science and ordered a few
      additional ones. To me what seems to come through in what
      I've read so far is Steiner's integrity.

      I have a smattering from other theosophists as well and distrust
      some of the material regarding the "Mahatmas"...

      Thanks for your suggestions.

      - Art


      --- In anthroposophy@egroups.com, "elaine upton"
      <elaineupton@h...> wrote:
      > Hello Art,
      > Thanks for your post. It's great to be new to STeiner, or, As
      Rilke said,
      > always to be new or beginning again.
      > Ancient principles: Steiner had a lot to offer about these, in
      almost all
      > his works. Most people begin with his OCCULT SCIENCE, or
      perhaps with
      > THEOSOPHY (that title is misleading--because Steiner broke
      off from the
      > theosophical society, as you may know, but some of his basic
      offerings are
      > in that book).
      >
      > There are other places to start also. His autobiography is very
      helpful.
      >
      > Be well,
      > elaine
      >
      >
      > >From: arthra999@y...
      > >Reply-To: anthroposophy@egroups.com
      > >To: anthroposophy@egroups.com
      > >Subject: [anthroposophy] Re: Ancient principles still viable
      today:
      > >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:41:13 -0000
      > >
      > >Thanks Elaine.
      > >
      > >I have to confess being new to Steiner and Anthroposophy. As
      > >someone better read in the anthroposophic tradition, point
      me in
      > >the right direction here as to what to consult in Steiner's
      works.
      > >
      > >It would seem to me though from my own study that these
      root
      > >ethical teachings are basic to the spiritual, philosophic path.
      > >
      > >To me the Ten Commandments while they contain much of
      the
      > >Yamas as described by Patanjali are not as inclusive as they
      are
      > >in the framework of a patriarchical, montheistic or
      henotheistic
      > >religion. The Yamas on the other hand are not rootedso much
      in
      > >belief as in behavior.
      > >
      > >The Sermon on the Mount seems to me to extend the Ten
      > >Commandments and make them more inclusive.
      > >
      > >They are often slighted or overlooked or seen as elementary
      > >when they are really fundamental.
      > >
      > >I'm closer to the Yoga tradition as I practise daily.
      > >
      > >Apologies Elaine if this appears inappropriate to an
      > >Anthroposophic list.
      > >
      > >- Art
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >--- In anthroposophy@egroups.com, "elaine upton"
      > ><elaineupton@h...> wrote:
      > > > Ok, anthra--say these ancient principles (ahimsa, satya,
      > >asteya,
      > > > brahmcharya, etc.) are still viable today. But how do they
      speak
      > >to us on an
      > > > anthroposophy list? This is an "anthroposophy list"--smile.
      > > >
      > > > I could also say that The Ten Commandments or the Eight
      > >Noble Truths of
      > > > Buddhism (which Steiner used) are still viable today. But
      does
      > >anthroposophy
      > > > help us to understand these today in a new (or a new-old)
      > >light?
      > > >
      > > > Be well (with ahimsa and all),
      > > > elaine
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      >
      >_________________________________________________
      _
      > >___________________________________
      > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
      > >http://explorer.msn.com
      > >
      >
      >
      __________________________________________________
      ___________________________________
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    • arthra999@yahoo.com
      Bruce: Thanks for sharing from Steiner s commentary of Patanjali, I hadn t read it before! Steiner wrote:A person whose money is ... guilty ... knowing does
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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        Bruce:

        Thanks for sharing from Steiner's commentary of Patanjali, I
        hadn't read it before!

        Steiner wrote:A person whose money is
        > invested in distilleries without his knowing it, is just as much
        guilty
        > as the manufacturer who distils liquors. The fact of not
        knowing does
        > not change the Karma. But if you are rich your possibility of
        hurting
        > others is lessened in the proportion in which you strive after
        > frugality.

        Could we apply this to many of us whose funds are used to
        exploit or pollute the environment and are persaonally unaware
        of it? He emphasis "frugality" which is very wise and minimally
        impacts the environment and balance or wheel of life.

        - Art



        --- In anthroposophy@egroups.com, "888" <bhive@a...> wrote:
        > >30. Ahimsa (non-injury), Satya (truth), Asteya (abstention from
        > >stealing), Brahmacharya (continence) and Aparigraha
        > >(abstinence from avariciousness) are the five Yamas (forms
        of
        > >restraint).
        >
        > Hi Arthur,
        > It is interesting that Pantanjali makes this distinction
        > between wealth and theft:
        >
        > "When abstinence from theft, in mind and act, is complete in
        the Yogee,
        > he has the power to obtain all material wealth."
        >
        > Rudolf Steiner gives the broader definition of stealing in his
        summing
        > up of Yama:
        >
        > "Yama includes everything which has to be given up by one
        who wishes to
        > go through a yoga training, and its precepts we find more fully
        > expressed in the commandments: Non-lying, non-killing,
        non-stealing,
        > non-extravagance, and non-desiring. The commandment
        'non-killing' is a
        > very strict one, and holds good for all beings. No living being
        may be
        > killed, or even injured, and the more strictly this is kept, the
        further
        > the student is brought. It is beside the question to ask if this
        can be
        > carried out in our civilization.
        >
        > 'Non-lying' is easier to understand when it is kept in mind that
        every
        > lie is a murder on the astral plane.
        >
        > 'Non-stealing': That must also be carried out in its strictest
        sense. A
        > European may say he is not stealing, but in the eyes of the
        oriental
        > yogi the matter is not so lightly disposed of. In the countries
        where
        > these precepts were first divulged by the great teachers of
        humanity,
        > the conditions of life were much simpler, and the principle of
        theft
        > could easily be fixed. But a yoga teacher would not agree that a
        > European does not steal. If, for example, I appropriate in an
        unlawful
        > way the working power of another person, if I procure a profit
        for
        > myself, a profit that is permitted by law but that means the
        > exploitation of another person, the yoga teacher will call that
        > 'stealing.' Our ways of life are complicated. Many transgress
        this
        > commandment without being in any way aware of having done
        so.
        >
        > 'Non-extravagance' is just as complicated. A person whose
        money is
        > invested in distilleries without his knowing it, is just as much
        guilty
        > as the manufacturer who distils liquors. The fact of not
        knowing does
        > not change the Karma. But if you are rich your possibility of
        hurting
        > others is lessened in the proportion in which you strive after
        > frugality.
        >
        > 'Non-desiring' is very difficult. It implies striving to be without
        any
        > wants whatever; approaching the world without a single desire,
        and
        > merely doing what is demanded of us by the outer world. Even
        the feeling
        > of satisfaction in bestowing benefits must be suppressed. In
        the yoga
        > teachings Yama is enforced with the utmost severity, and
        cannot, as it
        > is now taught, be transplanted to Europe."
        >
        > Kind Regards,
        > Bruce
      • starmann77@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/1/00 6:52:25 AM, arthra999@yahoo.com writes:
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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          In a message dated 12/1/00 6:52:25 AM, arthra999@... writes:

          << I've just begun reading Esoteric Science and ordered a few
          additional ones. To me what seems to come through in what
          I've read so far is Steiner's integrity.

          I have a smattering from other theosophists as well and distrust
          some of the material regarding the "Mahatmas"... >>

          *******You've hit the nail on the head. He's real, and most of the others
          you're likely to hear of or find books written by were out-and-out phonies
          (apart from Blavatsky, and even she was a faker half the time). That doesn't
          mean there isn't some truth in other people's books, but when they claim to
          be channelling from the 'mahatmas', they're b.s.

          Dr. Starman
        • starmann77@aol.com
          arthra999@yahoo.com writes:
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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            arthra999@... writes:

            << Thanks for sharing from Steiner's commentary of Patanjali, I hadn't read
            it before!

            Steiner wrote:<<A person whose money is invested in distilleries without his
            knowing it, is just as much guilty as the manufacturer who distils liquors.
            The fact of not knowing does not change the Karma. But if you are rich your
            possibility of hurting others is lessened in the proportion in which you
            strive after frugality.>>

            <<Could we apply this to many of us whose funds are used to exploit or
            pollute the environment and are persaonally unaware of it? He emphasis
            "frugality" which is very wise and minimally impacts the environment and
            balance or wheel of life. >>

            *******Yes, and there are people trying to follow the 'Right Livelihood' part
            of the 8-Fold Path---although Steiner said it is impossible in today's world
            economy---who have set up mutual funds where they carefully check what the
            money is invested in to ensure its uses are 'green'.

            Dr. Starman
          • R Lloyd, heartgasms.com
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
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              <<Could we apply this to many of us whose funds are used to exploit  or
              pollute the environment and are persaonally unaware of it?  He emphasis
              "frugality" which is very wise and minimally impacts the environment and
              balance or wheel of life. >>

              *******Yes, and there are people trying to follow the 'Right Livelihood' part
              of the 8-Fold Path---although Steiner said it is impossible in today's world
              economy---who have set up mutual funds where they carefully check what the
              money is invested in to ensure its uses are 'green'.
              Negative karma can even extend to those supporting governments
              which are bought and paid for by spiritually and environmentally polluting
              corporations.
               
              Br. Ron
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