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Re: the corpse picture

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  • Stephen Hale
    ... intrigue! ... This came out awhile ago now when I suggested that either Bondarev or Prokofieff himself was the true author of the book credited to Irina
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13" <TomBuoyed@...>
      wrote:
      > Stephen,
      >
      > Thanks for your response. That's news to me about Irina merely
      > transcribing and not composing it herself. How Russian this
      intrigue!
      > Wonderfully Byzantine! (And that's close enough to Mother Russia!)

      This came out awhile ago now when I suggested that either Bondarev
      or Prokofieff himself was the true author of the book credited to
      Irina Gordienko. If you are at least familiar with the book, it is
      an attempt to show that Sergei Prokofieff's works concerning Rudolf
      Steiner and Anthroposophy are not in accord with Rudolf Steiner's
      intent. And many examples indicating disparity between Steiner and
      Prokofieff are given, demonstrating that the author has a very keen
      knowledge of both men's work, which very few in this entire world
      could possibly have, except Bondarev and Prokofieff. Irina
      Gordienko was a young Russian scientist engaged in micro-biological
      research, and writing monographs of her studies. At 33 years of
      age, she finds out that her name is affixed to this book, and she is
      known to have disavowed its authorship other than the fact that she
      wrote down the words. According to Willy Lochmann, who Robert Mason
      wrote to concerning this issue of authorship, the original hand-
      written manuscript by her is locked away in his vault. And Lochmann
      attests that she was in contact with Bondarev and used his personal
      library.

      > But what do you know about SP being in the circle of Bondarev's
      study
      > group in Moscow along with Irina?

      Nothing. But I strongly doubt that this woman had much time or even
      any interest in anthroposophy considering her own rigorous and
      highly stressful career. She already had more than a full plate
      going. In 1997, the book is published with the clear intent of
      undermining Prokofieff's rise through the ranks to executorship. It
      was meant clearly for the people at the GAS to see that Steiner's
      work was not being properly served by Prokofieff. The book was
      meant to side-track SP from making further inroads toward the
      Vorstand most certainly, but it also wanted to show that he was
      bringing something different into anthroposophy that was not from
      Steiner. In 1998, Bondarev gets expelled from the GAS, while SP
      moves right on toward his goal and the welcoming arms of the GAS.
      In 1999, Irina Gordienko dies in an accident, never able to tell us
      her side of things.
      >
      > As for asking SP, I think it is just a fantasy-bluff-troll by
      someone
      > new on AT.

      I would love asking SP some questions. Joel Wendt had a twenty
      minute private conference with him at the ASiA conference in 2005,
      and asked about the book and his reaction to it. I believe that
      Joel might still have the encounter on his website. One issue, from
      my standpoint, is this introduction SP wrote for his book on RS and
      the founding of the new mysteries. After naming every book or
      lecture that he had read on his path toward writing the book, he
      suddenly tells of a book that falls into his hands that gives every
      detail of how in the ten years from 1925 to 1935 it was all
      destroyed; and it made him physical ill for days.

      Now that's the book I want to read! So what is its name, and who is
      the author? Who could have written such a book? Probably one of
      those german scholars with access to all the original history and
      its account of things. But in the back of my mind is the idea that
      it could have been Steiner's own account from his autobiography,
      which I clearly believe he finished, intending as he told those
      involved in the karmic relationships of the anthroposophical
      movement that he would give them. And that it would tell all; the
      outer aspect of his life, as well as the inner. This is one of the
      important biographical additions to be found in the KR. Finishing
      his autobiography was a very high objective; even higher than the
      leading thoughts, which continued to be published even after his
      death. This indicates that he wrote for the future.
      >
      > But from reading a number of German blogs recently, I'm getting a
      > sense that there is someone on the Vorstand who is expressing what
      SP
      > is suppressing, and that is Bodo von Plato.

      I have certain strong feelings about SP concerning something Steiner
      tells about the Russian man of the 20th century, and how it is
      possible for the western occultists to make use of someone from the
      eastern part of Europe for a decidedly luciferic influence. And
      I'll post it when I can. It was proffered back on AT around the
      time of that conference at Ann Arbor in 2005.

      One other thing that make me doubt SP's honesty concerns what he
      says, again from the introduction to RS and the Founding of the New
      Mysteries, when he says that at the time that he was reading about
      the CC of 1923, that only two or three people in Russia even knew
      about it. This seems highly doubtful.
      >
      > What do you think should be -- and should have been --- brought to
      > America?
      >
      > Tom

      That is a good question. And thanks for asking it because you'll be
      interested in the answer. It concerns in large part why Rudy had
      such a hard-on about the migration of the arabism. The reason is
      because it's a theme that migrated across the waters 400 years ago,
      where the anti-sun oracle already resided. More on that later.

      Steve
    • Stephen Hale
      ... Steiner ... the ... What I am going to post below is from GA200, The New Spirituality and the Christ Event of the Twentieth Century , wherein Steiner gave
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
        <sardisian01@...> wrote:
        > I have certain strong feelings about SP concerning something
        Steiner
        > tells about the Russian man of the 20th century, and how it is
        > possible for the western occultists to make use of someone from
        the
        > eastern part of Europe for a decidedly luciferic influence. And
        > I'll post it when I can. It was proffered back on AT around the
        > time of that conference at Ann Arbor in 2005.

        What I am going to post below is from GA200, "The New Spirituality
        and the Christ Event of the Twentieth Century", wherein Steiner gave
        his clearest exposition of just how the western occultists have the
        power and the definite aim of taking control of the world and
        humankind through an intelligence that is nearly incomprehensible.
        This is what he says concerning how these occultists infiltrate the
        eastern world's spiritual-cultural domain for evil purposes. And
        it, along with the entire lecture course, proves just how important
        spiritual science is in order to defeat these evil forces. Here it
        is, and see where maybe Prokofieff fits in here? - Steve


        "The East had once a grand and lofty life of spirit. All
        spirituality – with the exception of what is striven for in
        Anthroposophy and is trying to give itself new form – all
        spirituality of the civilized world is, in actual fact, a legacy of
        the East. But the real glory of this religious-spiritual life was
        present in the East only in ancient times. And today the Eastern
        human being, even in Russia, finds himself in a strange disharmony
        because on the one hand he still lives in the ancient spiritual
        element of his heritage and, on the other, there is also working in
        him that which comes out of the present epoch of human development;
        namely the training towards becoming an individual.

        This brings about a situation such that, in the East, there is a
        strong decadence in humanity; that, in a sense, the human being
        cannot become a full human being; that hard on the heels of this
        Eastern human being, as far west as Russia, is the spiritual
        heritage of ancient times. And this has the effect that when today
        the consciousness of this Eastern human being is lowered, when he is
        in a condition of sleep or dreaming, or in some kind of mediumistic
        trance state which is so very frequent in the East, he is then,
        indeed, not entirely impregnated by another being as in the West,
        but this being works into his soul nature; these beings, as it were,
        appear to him. Whereas in the West it is premature beings of three
        kinds that are at work, in the East it is retarded beings, beings
        that have remained behind from an earlier evolutionary stage of
        perfection and who now appear to human beings of the East in a
        mediumistic state, in dreams, or simply during sleep, so that the
        human being in a waking state then bears within him the inspirations
        of such beings; is inspired during the day by the after-effects of
        beings of this kind who come over him during the night.

        And here again there are three types of beings working in the East
        who likewise have a great influence. Whereas in the West one has to
        draw attention to individual human beings through whom these beings
        incarnate, in the East one must point to a kind of hierarchy that
        can appear to the most varied people. Again it is three types of
        beings; not, however, beings that incarnate through people but
        beings that appear to people and also inspire them during sleep at
        night.

        The first type of these beings prevents the human being from taking
        full possession of his physical body, hinders him from finding a
        connection with the economic element, with the public conditions of
        the present-day in general. These are the beings who seek in the
        East to hold back the economic life as it is needed in the threefold
        social order.

        The second type of beings are those that produce
        overindividualization – a kind of, if I may put it so paradoxically,
        unegoistic egoism. This is all the more subtle in the way it is so
        frequently found in people, particularly of the East, who fancifully
        attribute to themselves all possible selflessness – a selflessness
        which, however, is in fact a particularly subtle form of self-
        seeking, a particularly subtle egoism. They want to be absolutely
        good, they want to be as good as it is ever possible to be. This,
        too, is an egoistic sentiment. This is something that can be called,
        paradoxically, an unegoistic egoism, an egoism arising from an
        imagined selflessness.

        The third type of being that appears, in the way described, to human
        beings of the East are those beings that hold back the spiritual
        life from the earth; that spread , as it were, a dull mystical
        atmosphere over human beings, as can be found so frequently today,
        particularly in the East. And again, these three types of spiritual
        beings, which work down from the spiritual world and do not
        incarnate into human beings, are the enemies of the threefold social
        organism. In this way the threefold impulse is hemmed in from the
        spiritual side in the East and from the human side, as described, in
        the West. Thus we see here the spiritual foundations underlying the
        differentiation."
      • isenhart7
        ... Society/Movement ... What I find interesting is that the same individual responsible for the corpse photo provided the only response to Tom s question
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:

          > That a given individual felt that the Anthroposophical
          Society/Movement
          > PERMITS enough LEEWAY to post an image of a Corpse accompanied by
          > conceptual degradation of ALL the soul strivings represented by the
          > individual RM, clearly illustrates to what extend the WHOLE of
          > Anthroposophic Society/ movement has fallen under Asuric forces.

          What I find interesting is that the same individual responsible for the
          corpse photo provided the only response to Tom's question regarding
          Christ.-Val
        • Stephen Hale
          ... the ... Val, what was Tom s question regarding Christ? Since I am permanently expelled from AT it is difficult for me to follow the discussion here. Steve
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7" <isenhart7@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@> wrote:
            >
            > > That a given individual felt that the Anthroposophical
            > Society/Movement
            > > PERMITS enough LEEWAY to post an image of a Corpse accompanied by
            > > conceptual degradation of ALL the soul strivings represented by the
            > > individual RM, clearly illustrates to what extend the WHOLE of
            > > Anthroposophic Society/ movement has fallen under Asuric forces.
            >
            > What I find interesting is that the same individual responsible for
            the
            > corpse photo provided the only response to Tom's question regarding
            > Christ.-Val

            Val, what was Tom's question regarding Christ? Since I am permanently
            expelled from AT it is difficult for me to follow the discussion here.

            Steve
          • isenhart7
            ... Who is Christ? Val
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
              wrote:

              > Val, what was Tom's question regarding Christ?

              "Who is Christ?"

              Val
            • isenhart7
              ... I m not on the AT list either, Steve, and I find it difficult to follow the discussion there. I am always bothered when your name is mentioned there
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                wrote:

                > Since I am permanently
                > expelled from AT it is difficult for me to follow the discussion here.

                I'm not on the AT list either, Steve, and I find it difficult to follow
                the discussion there. I am always bothered when your name is mentioned
                there because I know that you cannot respond. But better to be the
                expellee, I think, than the expeller if the idiotic, slatthering, lap-
                dog he now appears to have been reduced to is any indication.-Val
              • Stephen Hale
                ... Well wouldn t Christ be the six-fold Elohim of the Sun?
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                  --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7" <isenhart7@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > Val, what was Tom's question regarding Christ?
                  >
                  > "Who is Christ?"
                  >
                  > Val

                  Well wouldn't Christ be the six-fold Elohim of the Sun?
                • isenhart7
                  ... He could be if one were able to formulate and articulate a response. A tall order apparently for one on the AT list. Lucky the go-to guy was on the job.
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                    --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                    wrote:

                    > Well wouldn't Christ be the six-fold Elohim of the Sun?

                    He could be if one were able to formulate and articulate a response. A
                    tall order apparently for one on the AT list. Lucky the "go-to" guy was
                    on the job. Whew-Val
                  • Stephen Hale
                    ... here. ... follow ... mentioned ... I have no problem whatsoever being expelled. I just can t always follow the discussions if they pass over here. As for
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7" <isenhart7@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > > Since I am permanently
                      > > expelled from AT it is difficult for me to follow the discussion
                      here.
                      >
                      > I'm not on the AT list either, Steve, and I find it difficult to
                      follow
                      > the discussion there. I am always bothered when your name is
                      mentioned
                      > there because I know that you cannot respond. But better to be the
                      > expellee, I think, than the expeller if the idiotic, slatthering, lap-
                      > dog he now appears to have been reduced to is any indication.-Val

                      I have no problem whatsoever being expelled. I just can't always
                      follow the discussions if they pass over here. As for the expeller, he
                      will always have my admiration for the simple fact that his mother was
                      an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and received anthroposophy
                      from her. I like that very much, although I think he would have much
                      rather been a 'beat' poet along the lines of Jack Kerouak or Allen
                      Ginsberg, or a sixties anti-generationalist like the likes of Dylan or
                      Joan Baez. He's an anarchist in all cases. The question is: What can
                      an anarchist do about anything, except suffer?

                      I see the suffering, Val. Thanks.

                      Steve
                    • isenhart7
                      ... ... discussion ... the ... lap- ... expeller, he ... was ... anthroposophy ... In that case, really, we should cue up Loves Me Like a Rock
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                        <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7" <isenhart7@>
                        wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale"
                        <sardisian01@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Since I am permanently
                        > > > expelled from AT it is difficult for me to follow the
                        discussion
                        > here.
                        > >
                        > > I'm not on the AT list either, Steve, and I find it difficult to
                        > follow
                        > > the discussion there. I am always bothered when your name is
                        > mentioned
                        > > there because I know that you cannot respond. But better to be
                        the
                        > > expellee, I think, than the expeller if the idiotic, slatthering,
                        lap-
                        > > dog he now appears to have been reduced to is any indication.-Val
                        >
                        > I have no problem whatsoever being expelled. I just can't always
                        > follow the discussions if they pass over here. As for the
                        expeller, he
                        > will always have my admiration for the simple fact that his mother
                        was
                        > an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and received
                        anthroposophy
                        > from her.


                        In that case, really, we should cue up "Loves Me Like a Rock" by Paul
                        Simon. And speaking of rocks-this is from one of my favorite rock
                        songs:

                        And I don't want to hear a sad story
                        Full of heartbreak and desire
                        The last time I felt like this
                        It was in the wilderness and the canyon was on fire
                        And I stood on the mountain in the night and I watched it burn
                        I watched it burn, I watched it burn.

                        I like that very much, although I think he would have much
                        > rather been a 'beat' poet along the lines of Jack Kerouak or Allen
                        > Ginsberg, or a sixties anti-generationalist like the likes of Dylan
                        or
                        > Joan Baez. He's an anarchist in all cases. The question is: What
                        can
                        > an anarchist do about anything, except suffer?

                        I knew Ginsberg and sorta met Bob once and though they did both
                        strike me as suffering, especially the latter, they did some fine
                        writing, don't you think?-Val
                      • isenhart7
                        ... Upon further reflection, Steve, I think my first answer wasn t very fair of me. An answer to Tom s question would have involved considering Tom s question
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                          > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          > > Well wouldn't Christ be the six-fold Elohim of the Sun?

                          Upon further reflection, Steve, I think my first answer wasn't very
                          fair of me. An answer to Tom's question would have involved considering
                          Tom's question and then clothing an answer in words, otherwise known as
                          putting two words together, in other words Grammatica, in other words
                          the Moon, in other words Beheading, in other words taking that first
                          step. Trips a lot of people up.-Val
                        • carol
                          Steve wrote: As for the expeller, he will always have my admiration for the simple fact that his mother was an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 4, 2007
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                            Steve wrote:"As for the expeller, he will always have my admiration for the simple fact that his mother was
                            an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and received anthroposophy from her."

                            Steve, One cannot justify one's attachment to Anthroposophy based on one's sentimental attachment to one's mother. One's commitment and respective responsibility towards the Anthroposophic Mouvement is a human phenomena which ideally falls in the domain of  individual experience- distinct and independent from the 'given' conditions of one's incarnation- one must, through the path of soul development rise above the 'given' conditions of family, geographic and nationalistic setting, even current time (when incorporating eternal self considerations) etc.

                            If the expeller, which I strongly suspect, justifies his authority and 'belonging' to Anthroposophy by referring to the blood/hereditary bond with his mother, then he doesn't warrant MY whole hearted support.

                            I noticed through his correspondences that he admitted to not having any siblings. So there you have it, a situation of an 'adored' child by an Anthroposophist American mother; a man who evidently does not exclusively employ Anthroposophic concepts, and when he does, they do not appear to reach to  any spiritual formative or substantial MORAL depth.

                            Think about it.

                            I also know anarchists in whom sub strata Christic sensitivity fashions their outer behavior with more sympathetic and non confrontationalist dispositions thus making it quite easy for me to genuinely appreciate them.  As well,  they have in their  possession' the means to genuinely appreciate signs of active heart forces.  

                            Carol.

                             

                             


                            --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7" isenhart7@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@>
                            > > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > Since I am permanently
                            > > > expelled from AT it is difficult for me to follow the discussion
                            > here.
                            > >
                            > > I'm not on the AT list either, Steve, and I find it difficult to
                            > follow
                            > > the discussion there. I am always bothered when your name is
                            > mentioned
                            > > there because I know that you cannot respond. But better to be the
                            > > expellee, I think, than the expeller if the idiotic, slatthering, lap-
                            > > dog he now appears to have been reduced to is any indication.-Val
                            >
                            > I have no problem whatsoever being expelled. I just can't always
                            > follow the discussions if they pass over here. As for the expeller, he
                            > will always have my admiration for the simple fact that his mother was
                            > an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and received anthroposophy
                            > from her. I like that very much, although I think he would have much
                            > rather been a 'beat' poet along the lines of Jack Kerouak or Allen
                            > Ginsberg, or a sixties anti-generationalist like the likes of Dylan or
                            > Joan Baez. He's an anarchist in all cases. The question is: What can
                            > an anarchist do about anything, except suffer?
                            >
                            > I see the suffering, Val. Thanks.
                            >
                            > Steve
                            >

                          • Stephen Hale
                            ... for ... Carol, I say *that* because I picked on this man rather relentlessly before I was finally expelled; it was one of a number of components working at
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 4, 2007
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                              --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" <organicethics@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Steve wrote:"As for the expeller, he will always have my admiration
                              for
                              > the simple fact that his mother was
                              > an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and received anthroposophy
                              > from her."

                              Carol, I say *that* because I picked on this man rather relentlessly
                              before I was finally expelled; it was one of a number of components
                              working at the time on AT. What you have to understand is that anyone
                              who ever makes contact with spiritual science is receiving the
                              substance of a modern form of initiation science.

                              It has been previously mentioned that anyone, including PS and DD, and
                              I would certainly include DW and VW, who makes contact with
                              anthroposophical concepts CAN NOT ever get rid of its influence. The
                              reason helps prove the fact that the substance of anthroposophy is a
                              matter of a modern mystery.

                              Tarjei Straume should really have never made contact with
                              anthroposophy. It has proved to be the bane of his life, which is very
                              well indicated in four years of rather repetitive correspondences of
                              the rather negative and immoral kind to be found on AT. And if you
                              want to scour the archives on that list you can find where I brought
                              him to task on the matter. I saw the injustice all the way. He
                              suffers for the simple reason that he has another life that he would
                              rather be living. But his mother bequeathed her fortune to him, and as
                              we know, anyone who makes contact with anthroposophy can never get rid
                              of it.

                              So, it has had the effect of making him a professional shit disturber
                              as well. Simply see it for what it is. He is nothing more than the
                              pawn in a much bigger enterprise designed to malign Rudolf Steiner and
                              his anthroposophy. Behind AT are larger forces of the most extremely
                              negative kind, and TS was selected for his work as moderator with this
                              in mind. Powerful forces knew they could manipulate a man who got
                              ahold of his mamma's anthroposophy books but wanted to do other things
                              with his life. It is a rare opportunity for the occultists to find
                              such a one as Tarjei Straume, both American and European.

                              In closing, just look carefully at the front page of AT, and what it is
                              supposed to imply for the future. And then think about how it has
                              failed to produce results of the positive kind indicated for an
                              anthroposophy of tomorrow. That forum has never done anything except
                              create negative controversy against RS, and uses the WC as its own
                              pawn. Very clever indeed, and Tarjei Straume is a very glib and clever
                              guy. Folks were scouting him for the job, and when he got put on
                              moderation by Starman's forum, he started that one. But other forces
                              were behind it already. He admits that fact. So, he is also a
                              compromiser who speaks on behalf of influences that are decidedly
                              against the furtherance of spiritual science, and this fact is well
                              demonstrated on that list.

                              But I fight, and will always fight for the truth with no compromises
                              whatsoever. And that is what you will consistently find concerning my
                              contributions on that list for nearly two years, until August 5, 2006,
                              when a trumped up charge of meddling in forum management was used to
                              get me banned. And all I did was look into the moderator list and make
                              comment that the sheriff of fartland and wherever that place in the
                              hinterland of Norway was now a moderator. And wasn't that interesting,
                              wink wink. That was all it took. They wanted me off because I was
                              pushing real issues, and pushing real buttons. And that was offensive
                              to the charade that continues today, as usual.

                              In other words, "same shit, different day".

                              Steve
                            • carol
                              Steve, I responded to this, but it seems to have become lost. Maybe it will show up in a week. C. ... anthroposophy ... is
                              Message 14 of 22 , Dec 5, 2007
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                                Steve, I responded to this, but it seems to have become lost. Maybe it
                                will show up in a week. C.
                                --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hale" <sardisian01@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, "carol" organicethics@ wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Steve wrote:"As for the expeller, he will always have my admiration
                                > for
                                > > the simple fact that his mother was
                                > > an anthroposophist, an American by the way, and received
                                anthroposophy
                                > > from her."
                                >
                                > Carol, I say *that* because I picked on this man rather relentlessly
                                > before I was finally expelled; it was one of a number of components
                                > working at the time on AT. What you have to understand is that anyone
                                > who ever makes contact with spiritual science is receiving the
                                > substance of a modern form of initiation science.
                                >
                                > It has been previously mentioned that anyone, including PS and DD, and
                                > I would certainly include DW and VW, who makes contact with
                                > anthroposophical concepts CAN NOT ever get rid of its influence. The
                                > reason helps prove the fact that the substance of anthroposophy is a
                                > matter of a modern mystery.
                                >
                                > Tarjei Straume should really have never made contact with
                                > anthroposophy. It has proved to be the bane of his life, which is very
                                > well indicated in four years of rather repetitive correspondences of
                                > the rather negative and immoral kind to be found on AT. And if you
                                > want to scour the archives on that list you can find where I brought
                                > him to task on the matter. I saw the injustice all the way. He
                                > suffers for the simple reason that he has another life that he would
                                > rather be living. But his mother bequeathed her fortune to him, and as
                                > we know, anyone who makes contact with anthroposophy can never get rid
                                > of it.
                                >
                                > So, it has had the effect of making him a professional shit disturber
                                > as well. Simply see it for what it is. He is nothing more than the
                                > pawn in a much bigger enterprise designed to malign Rudolf Steiner and
                                > his anthroposophy. Behind AT are larger forces of the most extremely
                                > negative kind, and TS was selected for his work as moderator with this
                                > in mind. Powerful forces knew they could manipulate a man who got
                                > ahold of his mamma's anthroposophy books but wanted to do other things
                                > with his life. It is a rare opportunity for the occultists to find
                                > such a one as Tarjei Straume, both American and European.
                                >
                                > In closing, just look carefully at the front page of AT, and what it
                                is
                                > supposed to imply for the future. And then think about how it has
                                > failed to produce results of the positive kind indicated for an
                                > anthroposophy of tomorrow. That forum has never done anything except
                                > create negative controversy against RS, and uses the WC as its own
                                > pawn. Very clever indeed, and Tarjei Straume is a very glib and clever
                                > guy. Folks were scouting him for the job, and when he got put on
                                > moderation by Starman's forum, he started that one. But other forces
                                > were behind it already. He admits that fact. So, he is also a
                                > compromiser who speaks on behalf of influences that are decidedly
                                > against the furtherance of spiritual science, and this fact is well
                                > demonstrated on that list.
                                >
                                > But I fight, and will always fight for the truth with no compromises
                                > whatsoever. And that is what you will consistently find concerning my
                                > contributions on that list for nearly two years, until August 5, 2006,
                                > when a trumped up charge of meddling in forum management was used to
                                > get me banned. And all I did was look into the moderator list and make
                                > comment that the sheriff of fartland and wherever that place in the
                                > hinterland of Norway was now a moderator. And wasn't that interesting,
                                > wink wink. That was all it took. They wanted me off because I was
                                > pushing real issues, and pushing real buttons. And that was offensive
                                > to the charade that continues today, as usual.
                                >
                                > In other words, "same shit, different day".
                                >
                                > Steve
                                >
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